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Yea, that's a lot of script in there, and is why it sometimes doesn't display correct data. Going in editing mode and saving the page (even if there is no change) will refresh that data. You can use the MassNullEdit function from JavaScript modules to edit multiple pages for that purpose. Energy X 21:57, January 23, 2019 (UTC)

Guardragon Edits

Hi, just an FYI, I know how the deck works, thanks. My point of concern was that (due to the way it was written) people could have made the mistake of thinking that you could summon Savage Dragon off of Agarpain's effect and still have an effective board. I am happy with the "appropriate tuners" edit but I would appreciate it if you didn't assume that I don't know what I'm doing. Otherwise, I am a fan of your edits. Thanks FatSnorlax (talkcontribs) 21:20, February 9, 2019 (UTC)


Remember that you don't need to change links like [[Xyz Summon]]ing to [[Xyz Summon|Xyz Summoning]]. It's just obsolete and extra coding that isn't really needed, nor does it function any differently. Energy X 15:44, February 16, 2019 (UTC)

All right, just keep that in mind when editing. Energy X 22:17, February 16, 2019 (UTC)

Infinitrack Edits

--hanmac (talkcontribs) 12:48, February 21, 2019 (UTC)

  • Downbeat: the Lvl 5 can be easy Special Summoned, and the Lvl 4 you can special summon from the deck have effects where you can special summon from your hand or graveyard. Also the Lvl 5 has effects in the GY. I was wrong with the lvl2 to lvl1 one because of the Attribute. The same thing doesn't work when going up in Lvl from 4 to 5. --hanmac (talkcontribs) 18:52, February 24, 2019 (UTC)
use Infinitrack Harvester, search for a Lvl 5 one, for example "Infinitrack Crab Crane", summon it using Harvester. you might use its Effect to Banish Harvester. Then use Downbeat on Crane, Summon "Flying Pegasus Railroad Stampede", return Crane and use it for Rank5 one. --hanmac (talkcontribs) 19:04, February 25, 2019 (UTC)

  • B.E.S. Blaster Cannon Core vs Cyber Dragon:
    • Both can't be Summon on your first turn without help. Machine Duplication for the CD, Anchor Drill for the other for example. No Different there, but +1 for CD.
    • B.E.S. can be better Special Summon because your opponent only needs to control more than you, not only opponent. that's +1 for B.E.S.
    • B.E.S. can't be destroyed by battle. that's +1 for B.E.S.
    • B.E.S. is EARTH Machine, that's useful for the Infinitrack monsters. that's +1 for B.E.S.
    • CD is a Lvl 5 and can be easier to extend, B.E.S. as Lvl 9 can still be used with Flying Pegasus Railroad Stampede. i say +2 for CD and +1 for B.E.S.

from that so far B.E.S. 4 : 3 CD. In an Infinitrack, Original CD might be useful first turn if used with MD and Nachster, but on later turns B.E.S. might be more useful because of more ATK and "can't be bestroyed by battle". CD on its own isn't useful for Infinitrack especially for top deck because it doesn't interact with the others.

so i would say either add or remove both. --hanmac (talkcontribs) 11:40, March 31, 2019 (UTC)

Hallowed Ground the Man

I think he was talking about me as the vandal because I undid his previous delete. Pitifulheartles (talkcontribs) 15:17, April 20, 2019 (UTC)

Sekka's Light

Yeah probably should have removed that tip after I added the same thing to the Monster Surge Deck weakness section. Pitifulheartles (talkcontribs) 15:12, May 1, 2019 (UTC)


Well, if it is unofficial, we shouldn't document it, then. At least not on archetype pages. Energy X 18:19, June 6, 2019 (UTC)

Mind to discuss such issues on talk pages, rather then reverting each other's edits. It's why those pages are locked for a while. Energy X 17:28, September 20, 2019 (UTC)


While you are pretty much 90% correct on keeping tips that are relevant to the "modern play", the 10% you are missing is that Yugioh is not all about "modern play", even if it's begrudgingly true that the current day yugioh are largely done with "modern play".

What I am trying to establish here is: If the tip is not utterly pointless/too complicated, leave it be. Tips are "compilation of effective combo", as far as I grasp. 0123456789 The GreatだいなるNumbersナンバーズ」 14:37, September 21, 2019 (UTC)

Recommended Cards

  1. Let me rephrase myself: I do not have enough knowledge about the competitive play. I was a casual, and currently retired.
  2. It's just "A compilation of cards that may be good". It's not an exact decklist.

0123456789 The GreatだいなるNumbersナンバーズ」 14:54, September 24, 2019 (UTC)

I am aware it's not an exact decklist. Hence why no staples. But that doesn't mean we have to recommend cards that would never be played and have been "found out" as terrible. Pinpoint Landing was "found out" pretty much on release. It's a worse Supply Squad, a card that was massively overhyped, only for it to flop hard. It does not belong in "A compilation of cards that may be good". Dzeef did a video I think on some of this stuff. Theotherguytm (talkcontribs) 14:59, September 24, 2019 (UTC)

One person should not be your only source of information. Learn to accept ideas from more people. Pitifulheartles (talkcontribs) 15:01, September 24, 2019 (UTC)
You make the incorrect assumption that I only have one source of information. I have several, and all of them have said the same thing, and I agree after running my own analysis. You should learn to accept when you're wrong, and stop trying to pick tiny holes in what I'm saying. Refute the analysis and explain why Pinpoint Landing is good, or don't bother. I was merely citing Dzeef as somewhere to go for your own interest if you need more explanation. Theotherguytm (talkcontribs) 15:05, September 24, 2019 (UTC)
Even the tiniest of holes can sink a boat. I did explain why Pinpoint Landing is good as it provides draw power with how much SSing Fur Hire does. Also I can use the same MST argument with your Supply Squad. Pitifulheartles (talkcontribs) 15:08, September 24, 2019 (UTC)
Not if the hole is in the captain's table. And it wasn't a hole, it was something I said that you used to make an incorrect assumption about me and attack me with. The draw is once-per-turn so it's basically a worse Upstart Goblin at best, and it's hard-once-per-turn so drawing multiples sucks. Plus if your turn gets stopped, which is a big risk with how Normal Summon-reliant Fur Hire is, it either sends itself to the GY at worst or at best you haven't played it and it's just a dead card which doesn't help you get out of the hole you're in. It's a win-more card ie: it's only good when you're already winning/doing well. Hence why Supply Squad is bad, you clearly didn't read what I said. If Supply Squad > Pinpoint Landing (since Supply Squad works in multiples very well) and Supply Squad is bad, what does that say about Pinpoint Landing? If you want more information, like I said, Dzeef did a video on this where he independently reaches the same conclusion. Theotherguytm (talkcontribs) 15:16, September 24, 2019 (UTC)
The Upstart argument is getting rather stale since it's basically a "once per duel" card with it being Limited unless you get it back into your hand. Also Fur Hire isn't even a top tier deck so why are you making a big fuss over it? Pitifulheartles (talkcontribs) 15:19, September 24, 2019 (UTC)
1. Upstart was a staple 3-of for many years (which you should know if you really were a long-time player) and is the standard for draw 1 cards to be compared against. Even with it Limited, I'd rather play it over Pinpoint Landing (I certainly would never play multiple Pinpoint Landing as it's HOPT). 2. As I said, there's a difference between a deck being not competitive and just bad. I love taking less competitive decks and grinding them into doing things they have no right to be doing. And I have no idea why you'd ever want to recommend to someone else a card that you know is bad. Let me throw that back, why are you making a big fuss about this when I've shown I'm right, and you've yet to provide a single coherent argument for any of your points. And in fact, they're not even your points. you're just undoing my clean-ups I've spent my time doing before. At least I don't make edits on archetypes I don't know enough about, whereas you seem willing to add your incoherent opinion to pages when you have not the slightest clue about their topic, like Paleozoic. Theotherguytm (talkcontribs) 15:30, September 24, 2019 (UTC)
I know full well that Upstart used to be at 3 but it isn't right now. And I'm not saying you're making bad arguments but all you've done is explained why only your ideas should be printed on the screen. Why are you adamant on not allowing other ideas. Just because they are "bad" in your eyes? As long as the tip is not an illegal play or makes zero contribution and makes no sense, why not allow it? Pitifulheartles (talkcontribs) 15:35, September 24, 2019 (UTC)
Again. You're equating me disagreeing with you with me only being open to my own ideas, which only shows your own bias. I've cited a source (I can cite more if you like), looked at competitive results... you've just argued the hell out of it without refuting any of my points. I'm not even basing this on my opinion. In my opinion, Pinpoint Landing might have some success in the future. But the vast majority of players say it's garbage. It has 0 competitive success in spite of there being several top decks that could have used it. But you clearly aren't going to listen to me whatever I say so I beg you to watch Dzeef. He does a much more thorough analysis than I can be bothered to RN. As for the last bit, that's like citing free speech as a reason for saying something: the most compelling argument you have is it's literally not against the rules to add it. Theotherguytm (talkcontribs) 15:48, September 24, 2019 (UTC)
This "Dzeef" person can't help me if I already know these things. And again with the competitive nonsense. If you want then make a "competitive tips" page/section to separate the "good" ones from the "garbage" ones. Pitifulheartles (talkcontribs) 16:09, September 24, 2019 (UTC)
And there's the problem: you think you know what you're talking about. You think you "already know these things" when you clearly don't know what you're doing. And "the competitive nonsense?" The best way to see if a card is good or not is check whether it's has any success in competitive play. And I don't see the point of separating the competitive tips from the bad ones, since the bad ones are just... bad. There's no point in telling people these "combos" exist when they're not only bad, but also obvious. I try and avoid the latter whenever possible, nothing is too obvious to a new player, but deliberately having a section dedicated to giving bad advice... I don't see the point. But then you haven't made any points all day besides the fact you think you know what you're talking about and you don't. Theotherguytm (talkcontribs) 16:14, September 24, 2019 (UTC)
Your opinions on tips are duly noted. However collaboration of tips can birth new decks that just might see competitive play. Even a "bad" tip can turn into a great one if someone can realize how useful something can be in a different situation. Just because you see a tip as "bad" doesn't mean someone else does. Pitifulheartles (talkcontribs) 16:19, September 24, 2019 (UTC)
I know. But there's a few handy basic principles you can use to sort the ones that might be good from the ones that aren't. Like "Cards that gain LP are gnerally bad". There is Ghost Sister & Spooky Dogwood in the game, capable of comfortably gaining 30K LP in one turn, and no-one plays her for this reason. There are exceptions to every rule (like Aroma) but in general it's not hard to sort bad tips that will never be good because they break basic principles from ones that don't. Another example: in Card Tips:The Beginning of the End, there is a tip advising you use this card in Diamond Dude Turbo. While Diamond Dude Turbo isn't a competitive deck, it has some good stuff going for it and the combo makes sense and aligns with what this card is trying to do. It also recommends the use of "Plaguespreader Zombie", and while we're getting very situational, the combo still is logical and uses cards you'd expect to possibly find in a Diamond Dude Turbo deck. However, Pot of Acquisitiveness, as I explained, does not fit logically with this card, so I removed that tip, since recycling effects in general have to fit certain criteria to be good, as per basic principles, like the cards you shuffle back have to be immediately useful to make it worth the deck thickening, and the aim of playing a deck using The Beginning of the End is to Thin your deck. Hopefully this explains what I'm getting at. Theotherguytm (talkcontribs) 16:35, September 24, 2019 (UTC)
Pot of Acquisitiveness doesn't have to apply to Diamond Dude turbo and neither does Plaguespreader Zombie. Tips don't have to interlock. Tips can be individual two card combos. Pitifulheartles (talkcontribs) 17:24, September 24, 2019 (UTC)
No, Pot of Acquisitiveness and Beginning in general don't go together, ofc you wouldn't run Pot of Acquisitiveness in Diamond Dude Turbo. And Pot of Acquisitiveness+The Beginning of the End is more of a situational gimmick "nonbo" than a combo. Theotherguytm (talkcontribs) 18:32, September 24, 2019 (UTC)
Pot of Acquisitiveness and Burial from a Different Dimension both work well with Beginning. Pitifulheartles (talkcontribs) 18:38, September 24, 2019 (UTC)
sigh Just when I thought I was making progress with you. They're not. For 2 reasons: 1. The Beginning of the End requires massive setup. One card in your hand which doesn't help this costs you the game. Neither of these set up Beginning, they only work after it's used. And TBH, if you resolve Beginning, you win that game nearly every time. So whatever you do afterwards doesn't matter that much, and playing a card that only works when that happens is stupid. 2. The monsters you're "recycling" aren't actually helpful. They're normally Danger! monsters that are used to thin the deck, and serve no use once they've been taken out the deck. Returning them to the GY has no use at all, returning them to the deck is downright flat-out stupidity. Even if there were cards you'd want to do it with, just leave them in the GY instead. Beginning doesn't force you to banish all the monsters in your GY, you can keep at least 2, and you don't really care about most of the ones you banish. So recycling them is pointless. I can go on and on and on with more and more points. Just let me know. Theotherguytm (talkcontribs) 19:30, September 24, 2019 (UTC)
Nah your points are rather pointless. It's rather sad that at this point you're pretty much arguing with yourself. I have not once denied that the tips were noncompetitive. But you keep rejecting a compromise and think that only tips that support a current meta should only be acknowledged. Pitifulheartles (talkcontribs) 19:52, September 24, 2019 (UTC)
To put it simply you're acting like Kojirou Shinomiya. Pitifulheartles (talkcontribs) 20:06, September 24, 2019 (UTC)
I don't really want to do this, but this isn't ending. So here goes:
Theo. You are on the winning end of the argument. But the tips you removed weren't outright terrible. Let those tips stay, if you please. Because not everyone want to play it in competitive. 0123456789 The GreatだいなるNumbersナンバーズ」 01:43, September 25, 2019 (UTC)

HOW MANY TIMES MUST I SAY IT'S NOT ABOUT IT BEING COMPETITIVE! There's a difference between a tip that's "not competitive" and flat-out bad, borderline misdirection. Those tips ARE outright terrible, that's why I'm trying to have this discussion! I'm not even a competitive player. I'm just vaguely up-to-date, with understanding of the basics of playing the game well... If I can't be allowed to improve this wiki because people who think Obelisk the Tormentor and Life Absorbing Machine are good have more say than I do... I can't see a reason to stay. Just leave the F.A. cards/page alone unless you actually have a clue what you're doing or there WILL be an edit war. I love that deck too much. That aside, probably farewell. I can't be bothered anymore to try and bring this wiki up to date when its run by majority rule of the stupid. I've followed every rule. I've put forward every point. And no-one seems willing to do anything but say "You're right, but we're ignoring you anyway because we want to and we think we know better". Theotherguytm (talkcontribs) 14:48, September 25, 2019 (UTC)

This entire discussion proves that tips are subjective info. One card is good for some and bad for others. Anyway, I can only agree with the fact that some cards may be bad for pro players, but it can be good for beginners. Energy X 17:11, September 25, 2019 (UTC)
Funny that, I ask if Beginning of the End and Pot of Acquisitiveness is a good combo on the Dueling Nexus discord, someone takes 3 seconds to say "no" then continues "one is reliant on the other and neither is realistically searchable", concluding "In theory it's good, because one fuels the other but there are very few decks that can play beginning of the end, and pot of acquisitiveness is terrible in all of those decks. An upstart for banished dangers darks? Not to mention you have to hard draw for both and it's not like acquisitiveness is adding significant fuel for beginning of the end. That's how I view it." Someone else takes 20 seconds to look up the cards and says "ew" and "garbage". Is it really that subjective when the 2 people that reply agree with me in the space of seconds? Also, Pitiful, I saw that. I'd like to call that out as trolling at this point. Theotherguytm (talkcontribs) 17:39, September 25, 2019 (UTC)
I'm quite serious if people accept it, also you have to look at cards and combos on just a surface level because at the end of the day, anything can break anything, given a perfect situation. Pitifulheartles (talkcontribs) 17:56, September 25, 2019 (UTC)
In the words of Luke Skywalker: "That was impressive. Every single word in that sentence was wrong." You have to NOT look at stuff on a surface level because at the end of the day the perfect situation is very, very, very rare. This is a game entirely built on randomness. How often do you think the perfect situation comes up? And you're hardly "breaking" the game when the "payoff" is worse than just playing the cards separately in different decks. Theotherguytm (talkcontribs) 18:03, September 25, 2019 (UTC)
I mean perfect as more of countering. Pitifulheartles (talkcontribs) 18:08, September 25, 2019 (UTC)

Calm down

Dude. You're overly worked over this. No one explicitly said "the cards are good". We just offer some of the "viable" combo, viewing from the cards' perspective only.

Since you've done everything on your end, it's time I do something for this matter: Let me try to appease you by bringing in more of the people I believe who know the game. And let their decision judge everything.

Just leave the F.A. cards/page alone unless you actually have a clue what you're doing or there WILL be an edit war.

Again, you're overly paranoid. If edit wars happen again, then we'll resolve it. 0123456789 The GreatだいなるNumbersナンバーズ」 15:06, September 25, 2019 (UTC)

The calm and collective win again. You kind of sent mixed signals the whole time though Great. Cardcar D probably isn't the best but it's a decent first turn draw for a Paleozoic deck since it's pretty much back row, pass. Pitifulheartles (talkcontribs) 15:34, September 25, 2019 (UTC)
...this is what I mean. You've clearly never played a Paleozic deck in your life (since if you had, you'd know Swap Frog is a thing and is always played in Paleo decks) and yet you think somehow you know better than I do.

Find Cardcar D? Can't? Surprise. And guess what are the 3 most used monsters in Paleo decks? The Frog engine. Surprise again. And guess what are the most played 2 Spells in Paleo decks? Pot of Desires and Card of Demise. Surprise again, Cardcar D is bad in this deck because there are already cards that are being played that do its job far better and it conflicts with them.

A plea to stay

I won't add to the discussion already here, I am just hoping that you, Theotherguytm, can stay around but focus your efforts in the Discussions Zone and Discord server, where you can tell players the difference between good and bad card choices with more freedom since these tip pages do leave little room for nuance, while you can explain more in those platforms. I really do think you bring up good points and wouldn't want to see such knowledge leave the wiki. Hope you can consider my suggestion. Thanks BlazeWu (talkcontribs) 16:57, September 25, 2019 (UTC)
I'm already on the Dueling Nexus discord, and I'm their F.A. deckspert. Not sure if I could devote the time to it (RN I just mostly keep an eye on the pages I've made changes to already and the newer stuff), but thanks for the invite and much-needed kindness. I'll look into it. Theotherguytm (talkcontribs) 17:39, September 25, 2019 (UTC)
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