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5D's manga archetypes

Take a look at the lores for "Great Gallant Demonic Angel, Rosalian" and "Prayer to the Evil Spirits". It seems we have some undocumented archetypes here. I'm going to see if I can locate some cards images for them tomorrow to help clarify. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 05:31, December 5, 2011 (UTC)

Ooh, you may be right! English Shonen Jump is only up to chapter 11, so I can't really help much there... =( ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 16:38, December 5, 2011 (UTC)
Unfortunately, I've not been able to locate any images at all of either card. Maybe we can ask III or Blackwings if they have the jplore for them? Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 16:46, December 5, 2011 (UTC)
It wouldn't hurt to try... =) ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 16:49, December 5, 2011 (UTC)
Looking through "Rosalien"'s history, I came across "The Rose Bell of Revelation", with a nice, crisp(ish) Japanese card image complete with lore; this should cover our needs for "Queen Angel" and "Fallen Angel", but we still need an image of "Prayer" for the "Angel" parent group. We've also got to worry about how to disambiguate "Fallen Angel" from "Darklord", since apparently "Darklord"'s Japanese name translates to "Fallen Angel" as well (and Fallen Angel currently redirects to it). ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 17:08, December 5, 2011 (UTC)
Nice. We should just be able to use "Fallen Angel" as a page name and add disambiguation text for "Darklord" at the top. It's also highly likely that the English manga will change the name altogether, in which case, we can make "Fallen Angel" a disambiguation page for both archetypes. Just to be sure, the "Rose Bell" card doesn't have the text that means "Darklord" on it, right? They are separate archetypes? Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 17:12, December 5, 2011 (UTC)
That's what I was thinking; I just like making stuff complicated. =D
Right, "Rose Bell" has "魔天使" (plus some furigana I can't read reliably enough to transcribe), and "Darklord" is " () (てん) 使 () ", though the last two kanji are identical (they're also the same for "Queen Angel", interestingly enough, leading me to believe that's what "Angel" will turn out to use on "Prayer"). ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 17:18, December 5, 2011 (UTC)
I should have known.
Ok then. And yeah, it sounds like that it what it will use. Curious to see what else will end up being part of that archetype, intentionally or not. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 17:20, December 5, 2011 (UTC)
A lot, probably, "天使" seems to be the most common Japanese translation for "angel". I love unintentionally generic archetypes... =D ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 17:34, December 5, 2011 (UTC)
That's what I feared. This should be interesting though. I think the funniest unintentional member I've seen so far is "Thought Ruler Archfiend", which is technically in the "Sphere" archetype. Or maybe "The Legendary Fisherman" in "Shaman". Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 17:38, December 5, 2011 (UTC)
Ooh, ooh, there's also "Elemental HERO Necroid Shaman" in "Roid". =D ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 17:47, December 5, 2011 (UTC)

(outdent) So, "Rose Bell" appears in chapter 12, which is, conveniently enough, the chapter that should be in the next issue of SJ. Would you have a problem with waiting until it's released and we can see what the English names are going to be before actually getting to work creating all this stuff, Cheesedude? ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 05:08, December 6, 2011 (UTC)

Of course not. There is no deadline, after all. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 16:15, December 6, 2011 (UTC)
Cool. So now, we play... the waiting game. *looks menacingly past steepled fingers* =D ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 16:34, December 6, 2011 (UTC)
"Rosalin" is being released in Premium Pack 14 (among many other cards I assumed would never see the light of the day). They'll likely change the effect, but we'll see. It may help solve our problems. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 16:25, December 7, 2011 (UTC)
Very cool, this is certainly unexpected. It'll be interesting to see how long it takes these cards to make it to the TCG. ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 16:39, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

So, Shonen Jump just got here (...yesterday; I've been reading Inheritance), and it seems the translators went with a cop-out: "Rose Bell"'s English lore reads "From your Deck, add either Queen Angel of Roses or Fallen Angel of Roses to your hand." Still, at least this confirms the English archetype names.

I don't really have the time to update the other cards from chapter 12; all of them look to be named correctly except for "Blessed Cards of Grass", which should be "Cards from the Blessed Grass", and "Magic Elf Burgundy", which should be "Burgundy the Magic Elf". ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 19:03, December 30, 2011 (UTC)

Oh, come on. Alright then. Well then, yeah, at least we have the English names.
I'll get to it later if I have time before you. So they didn't change the name of "Magic Elf Elite Claret" to match? Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 19:24, December 31, 2011 (UTC)
I may get to it today myself, I think I've got a good chunk of the day free.
Elite Claret is shown in chapter 13, not 12. ;) ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 19:30, December 31, 2011 (UTC)
Fusion Monsters count as archsupport? Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 03:58, January 2, 2012 (UTC)
Most Fusion Monsters I've bothered to look at have been tagged as support for their Fusion Materials. As I recall, there has been some dissatisfaction expressed over that, but I can't remember for sure whether we agreed not to do that any more (I'm wanting to say we didn't though). I wouldn't be against changing to not tagging that, though (in which case, Rosarian should be changed to archrelated, I think). ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 04:03, January 2, 2012 (UTC)
We probably didn't. Truthfully though, I've been removing them on-sight. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 04:07, January 2, 2012 (UTC)
All right, may as well treat that as current best practice. =) ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 04:09, January 2, 2012 (UTC)

I agree

I agree with Deltaneos. Ever since, the chat has been turning into a housing unit for trolls. People who contribute don't go on the chat. And People who hardly contribute spend every day on it. I have an idea: Everyone should make at least 1 mainspace edit before they go to the chat. Tell me what you think. --I'm the Haitian Seto Kaiba. Deal with it. (talkcontribs) 02:16, January 2, 2012 (UTC)

Just don't do that - making the topic look funny, and you should put "User:" in other user's name because it won't link to his name directly.
Oh, and here's a chop of pig's butts, Dino. --FredCat 03:01, January 2, 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for trying to find a solution. Although I'm not sure a low editcount restriction would solve any of the main problems in chat. As Dinoguy said above, it's not technically feasible. The only way of implementing it would be to kickban anyone with 0 edits who joins. That would create more problems than it solves. If it was possible, I'm not sure I'd be too keen on the idea.
To clarify, I never said anyone who uses chat is a troll. I said, if worst comes to the worst and someone is unnecessarily banned over some argument, they may resort to trolling or causing some sort of disruption. And that's not because they are contemptible in nature, but because they'd be resentful over being punished for something they don't think was their fault. This isn't a position we should put anyone in. Most users don't use chat specifically to cause trouble. I think it should be possible to help such users in overcome their conflicts, without resorting to bans. -- Deltaneos (talk) 00:50, January 3, 2012 (UTC)

Merges

I have some things that I think need history merging. The Yu-Gi-Oh! 10th Anniversary Animation Book gives the proper arc names for GX. We currently have them at their dub names, and the dub splits it up more. We need to merge Freshman Year and Rise of the Sacred Beasts into a new article called Seven Stars (arc). Society of Light and Genex Tournament need to merged into Society of Light (arc). (I'm going to move The Society of Light to Society of Light afterwards. Finally, Survival Duels, Quest for the Rainbow Dragon and Into the Shadows need to be merged into a new article called Dimension World. I'll create an article for the actual type of Duel called "Survival Duel" afterwards. Thanks, Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 18:38, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

I'm very leery of performing history merges in cases like this; it would be better to pick one of the original articles to move to the new title, merge content from the other articles in by hand, redirect the other article(s) to the first, and note on the talk page of the first that it contains content merged from the other articles, with links back to them (they should also be linked in the edit summary of the edit you merge stuff in). ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 18:49, January 4, 2012 (UTC)
Ok, that's fine. I wasn't sure myself. I'll handle it at some point today then. Thanks, Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 18:56, January 4, 2012 (UTC)
Done, but for some reason, the "name" parameter doesn't seem to be working and linking Yu-Gi-Oh! GX in the infobox borks the episode numbers. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 20:13, January 4, 2012 (UTC)
That's because there is no "name" parameter in {{Infobox/Yu-Gi-Oh!/Storyline/Start}}, though there is a "title" parameter that does what you're expecting (though, really, we have StringFunctions; there's absolutely no excuse for the infobox not to automatically do something as simple as stripping parenthesized terms from the title displayed... =P ). As for the linking, I just changed the template to link (and italicize) the parameter input automatically. ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 20:25, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

OCG-TCG card image Template

Hey just wanted to check on this before I start to move images again, do you want me to start adding the OCG-TCG card image template to the images as I go, or is it still a work in progress? Just checking, Thanks. ^_^ Look234 (talkcontribs) 20:33, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

Technically, it's still a work in progress, but it's already deployed to dozens of card images (many of them done by myself) and should be fine to use. If you have any questions or encounter any problems with it, please let me know. ;) ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 20:43, January 4, 2012 (UTC)
Cool cool, I'll let you know if I run in to anything then. Look234 (talkcontribs) 20:48, January 4, 2012 (UTC)
Okay one issue so far, for Japanese sets it always says that they are misnamed due to the sets not having an edition but the template requiring one. Is there anyway to make an exception for Japanese sets? Look234 (talkcontribs) 21:03, January 4, 2012 (UTC)
There already is one, just don't use the "edition" parameter for Japanese cards (it is required for non-Japanese cards, though, and the template will complain if it isn't provided for one). ;) ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 21:08, January 4, 2012 (UTC)
Err, that is, now it'll work. Turns out I missed some stuff when I updated {{OCG-TCG card image}} and its core templates recently. =P ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 21:11, January 4, 2012 (UTC)
No worries, thanks for that. ^_^ Look234 (talkcontribs) 21:15, January 4, 2012 (UTC)
Just to be clear, you can omit the "edition" parameter entirely, it's not needed at all for Japanese cards. ;) ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 21:17, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

FredCat's ANOTHER new Article

Please check it out and let me know what on your opinion. --FredCat 17:54, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

Interesting... Do you plan on working through the whole banlist? ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 18:41, January 5, 2012 (UTC)
If my fingers were endure enough to do them all from the day one. And also, I am curious why few "banlist" were absent when I visited May 2002's? It's like whole lists between Sept 2002 and Sept 2003 are red... --FredCat 20:08, January 5, 2012 (UTC)
That's because, originally, we only had about two banlist articles for each year on here. However, in the first few years after YGO was licensed and released here (for much of the time Upper Deck Entertainment held the license for the TCG), banlists actually seemed to have been updated roughly coinciding with the release of each new Booster Pack. This meant that we were missing quite a few banlists, and the early ones that we did have were misleading, if not outright wrong. So, I started working on creating articles for every banlist from the very beginning, but ran out of steam after making it through the first four, and haven't gotten back around to working on it more. ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 20:18, January 5, 2012 (UTC)
I c... Not our fault that Konami/UDE didn't taking care of banlist change back in that day... Other question; Do I have a right to post an Icon of the card (like just card's image, only base on avatar) in that articles I am about to creating? --FredCat 20:35, January 5, 2012 (UTC)
If the image comes from a card, it's fair-use, and cannot be used in userspace. ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 20:38, January 5, 2012 (UTC)
Well, I meant by http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l26/Hiita13/Yata-Garasu.jpg... --FredCat 20:40, January 5, 2012 (UTC)
That's technically still fair-use. Where the image is being stored doesn't matter, only its original source. ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 20:43, January 5, 2012 (UTC)
Ah, anything that belong to Wikia... Alright, that's no harming - since I posted the article without icon. Thank you again. --FredCat 20:46, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

Not sure if you're aware... I posted new card article this morning (it's 2:45 PM at my area...) --FredCat 19:47, January 6, 2012 (UTC)

Cool, I never did quite understand why Cyber-Stein was banned. =) ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 19:49, January 6, 2012 (UTC)
Is my article give enough explain of why "Cyber-Stein" being banned in first place? Or do you need more? --FredCat 19:52, January 6, 2012 (UTC)
Nah, I pretty much got it. =) ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 19:54, January 6, 2012 (UTC)

Underworld Tour.

Ah, thanks (I was wary at first since it just said "Yu-Gi-Oh! ZEXAL", but no episode number where it actually appeared). Shardsilver (talkcontribs) 18:56, January 6, 2012 (UTC)

No problem. Note, though, that I don't watch ZEXAL, so I can't personally confirm that the card does appear in the episode. ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 19:20, January 6, 2012 (UTC)
I don't think the card itself is shown, but it's listed in the text of a book that V was reading. So it's sort of an appearance. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 19:26, January 6, 2012 (UTC)
Okay, I knew it was in a book, but not that it was only named. Still, if that's good enough for you, Cheesedude, it's fine with me too. ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 19:28, January 6, 2012 (UTC)

"Face-down Summons"

Have the words like above catch your attention yet? If not, then I did already - brought a new theory in my mind and post up the article just now. --FredCat 19:07, January 7, 2012 (UTC)

Well, cards can't be summoned face-down, that is always called "setting". In addition, there's at least one card effect that allows you to either place a monster in face-down Attack Position, or to change the battle position of a face-down monster (though I can't remember which it is, and I can't remember the name of the card). ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 19:13, January 7, 2012 (UTC)
It's "Darkness Approaches" you were looking for - I am already aware of that. But that's just the theory; with the lore like "Eisbahn", I thought that Konami maybe pull a trick out in some pack in the future; not likely to be immediately... That article I created have explaining that "Summon it in Face-down Attack Position" is actually effect, not Summon Mechanic. Here's the article that you maybe will understand better that way. Just take your time and recover your sleep time. --FredCat 19:17, January 7, 2012 (UTC)
"Darkness Approaches" may well be the card I was thinking of, but I'm wanting to say I was thinking of a card whose effect specifically requires either placing a monster in face-down Attack Position, or changing the battle position of a face-down monster. *shrugs*
I'm not sure that's what they had planned with "Eisbahn" myself; personally, I'm not seeing what the point would be in introducing a face-down summoning mechanic.
I actually saw your article before replying. ;) ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 19:24, January 7, 2012 (UTC)
Cards can be Summoned in face-down Defense Position. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 19:28, January 7, 2012 (UTC)
Let's not forget about "Nimble Momonga" part too... But Cheese get it right - Monster can be Summoned [sic] in face-down Defense Position; so I am pulling that theory that Konami may decide to include "Special Summon in Face-down Attack Position" one day in the future. Again, if there is an Archetype exist, then "Special Summoned in face-down Attack Position" can be as part of the effect, as I mentioned earlier, since it's not complete true to the Summon Mechanic as of now. --FredCat 19:31, January 7, 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for the pointers, Cheesedude... As it turns out, "The Shallow Grave" may well be the card I was thinking of. ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 19:37, January 7, 2012 (UTC)
Cheer for Cheese as he get a free black cup of coffee. --FredCat 19:43, January 7, 2012 (UTC)

Archetype updates

I've deleted the Families category and moved all its members to the series category. In addition, I think we know have only archetypes in the archetype category. I have yet to check on some of the sub-archetypes like "Neo Flamvell" and "XX-Saber" yet though. There are also some interesting cases. Did we ever decide what we're doing with Polymerization (series) (which may be an archetype) and Umi (archetype)? Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 20:05, January 7, 2012 (UTC)

We need an editor versed in Japanese (III?) to confirm that a) there is a difference in Japanese card effects between naming a specific card versus calling for all cards with a given string in their names, and b) the cards marked as "Polymerization" and "Umi" support actually pass that distinction. Ultimately, the support cards for all archetypes with a name identical to a specific card will need to be checked in this way (or are "Polymerization" and "Umi" the only two? I could swear there are more...). ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 20:12, January 7, 2012 (UTC)
There's the whole Dark Magician (series) and Magician (series) thing, which need either be merged or deleted depending on what sort of answer we get. And Jinzo (series), I suppose. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 20:20, January 7, 2012 (UTC)
"Dark Magician" and "Jinzo" are probably valid series regardless of the answer we get, since their members have very strong thematic ties. "Magician", on the other hand... Well, it needs review, at the very least. ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 22:08, January 7, 2012 (UTC)
True. On a related note, do we want OCG sets in the "sets" parameter for archetype pages. I've been adding them as I go, but I never actually asked if that was needed or not.
I also have to go through "Alchemy", which a gigantic cluster**** at this point. I'll likely be moving it to "Alchemy Beast" and removing the rest of the cards. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 02:16, January 8, 2012 (UTC)
I have no idea what's going on with the "sets" parameter, to be honest. When I bother with it at all, I usually list every set I can find, for both the TCG and OCG, but then you end up with absolutely massive lists for some series/archetypes.
Yeah, that doesn't look pretty at all. I wonder if any of the cards marked as support actually are, or if they all just support individual cards (I'm pretty sure the "Alchemy Beast" support cards only support their companion Alchemy Beast, but it's been too long since I looked through to be sure). Do "Homunculus" and co. form their own thematic series, or are they unrelated to each other? ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 04:35, January 8, 2012 (UTC)
Fair enough.
I'm nearly positive it has no archsupport whatsoever and that every card listed there is a misuse. Depends on which Homonculus you mean. "Golden Homunculus" would be related to the Alchemy Beasts (it even has its own support card just like the Beasts). As far I'm concerned, "Homunculus the Alchemic Being" isn't really related in any way besides the name. And the "Helios" card could perhaps be their own series. At this point, the page really lists "card used by Daitokuji" + "Homunculus the Alchemic Being". Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 10:13, January 8, 2012 (UTC)
I meant "Homunculus the Alchemic Being", though I may have been *thinking* of "Helios". ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 17:37, January 8, 2012 (UTC)
All done. Turns out they do have one support card. Also created a page for Helios. The argument could be made that the two series are related to one another, since one "Process" card supports "Alchemy Beasts", another is related and two are related to "Helios". Not sure if that enough to put it under another series banner (no pun intended) of "Alchemy" or not. Regardless, this gave me the idea to create an article about how alchemy is depicted in YGO, as GX had a metric ****ton of references, even if you exclude all of cards we're talking about from the list. I know someone who complied a lot of that information somewhere, I believe they even cited some outside sources too.
To clarify, shouldn't Category:Archetypes be added to Category:Series? Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 00:35, January 10, 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, I poked around the support cards and saw that myself a little bit ago. I don't think we need a single overarching series here; it looks like just individual cards from one series that are related to the other. I do think that the "Color Process" cards, though, are their own series.
Not really; neither of their definitions fits neatly enough within the other's for that. We could have a see also or something between them, though. ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 02:48, January 10, 2012 (UTC)
I agree. I'll go ahead and make a page for them, then. I guess we'd just use "Process" for the page name, then?
I thought that by the definition we were using, all archetypes are series, but not all series are archetypes. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 04:30, January 10, 2012 (UTC)
Probably... I want to say that sounds too generic, but there are no examples of archetypes, and precious few of series, with known official names (that I'm aware of) where said official name is not exactly represented in every member's name, which would be the case here if we went with "Color Process".
Well, kind of... Generally, archetypes contain series, but there is the possibility of a series containing cards that are not part of the archetype that the series forms the core of (and there are plenty of cases where an archetype includes cards that are not part of the series forming its core). Imagine a Venn diagram where the "series" circle is largely contained by the "archetype" circle, and simultaneously it covers most of the interior area of the "archetype" circle. ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 08:13, January 10, 2012 (UTC)
Ok, I need some help with checking on "Saber". Does the Japanese text for "Commander Gottoms, Swordmaster" call for "Saber" monsters or just "X-Saber" monsters (which would also include "XX-Saber"). I can't be sure the TCG just didn't use "Saber" as a catch-all for both "X-Saber" and "XX-Saber". With the current wording, "Gottoms" also supports "Sabersaurus", "Saber Beetle" and "Seraphim Saber". Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 01:17, January 12, 2012 (UTC)
Also, I went ahead and asked Ryusui about the Umi/Poly issue, since I had another question for him about another archetype issue. And I know he's edited mistranslated archetype names before. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 20:25, January 12, 2012 (UTC)
Yep, his Japanese lore calls for "セイバー". If he was "X-Saber" (and thus "XX-Saber") support only, he'd require "X-セイバー". So "Saber" is a valid archetype, and it contains both "X-Saber" and "XX-Saber".
Cool, hopefully he can help shed some light on this for us. ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 22:57, January 12, 2012 (UTC)
Ok, great.
He's given his response on his talk page. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 01:10, January 13, 2012 (UTC)
Excellent, that's about the answer I was hoping for as well. =) ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 01:26, January 13, 2012 (UTC)
Any opinion on the Six Samurai thing?
Am I the only one who finds it odd that the two people actually implementing the archetype restructuring are two people who don't actually play the game? To my knowledge, we're the only active admins that don't actually play, and I doubt there are many active users at all that don't, actually. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 01:36, January 13, 2012 (UTC)
Did you see my last message. I usually wouldn't ask and just assume you have nothing to say about it, but you very rarely don't respond and usually do even when you have nothing to say. 01:32, January 16, 2012 (UTC)
Aah, sorry about that, I somehow managed to miss it. ^_^;;
Whatever you want to do with the "Six Samurai" translation is fine by me, since Ryusui seems to be unable to do much more than provide a few possibilities and my own Japanese skills are largely limited to Google Translate. =\
Now that you mention it, it is pretty interesting... I hadn't thought of it before now. But then again, aside from Delt and Falzar, I think we're just about the most "general-purpose" active admins around ATM; the rest of the admins all seem to focus on particular areas. Of course, it's also not that surprising that we'd be so outnumbered; Yu-Gi-Oh! is kind of hard to be a fan of without at least a passing interest in playing the card game. =D ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 01:40, January 16, 2012 (UTC)
(outdent) Fair enough. I may actually go with no translation whatsoever in the lead itself and note that it's complicated and then link to a "Naming" subsection or something. It's really odd case. I should be able to get to fixing the support for the rest of the sub-archetyes tomorrow at some point after do my weekly ZEXAL stuff for tomorrow's episode.
True. I did used to play, but quit due to the hole it was putting in my wallet. And the fact that "Gravity Bind" and "Level Limit - Area B" were limited to 1 sealed the deal for now (incidentally, I've had more interest recently in maybe trying to play online somewhere now, since the former card is back up to 2). And honestly, had someone told me several years ago I'd even be contributing here (let alone become an sysop), I'd not have believed it. I never considered myself that big of a YGO fan. It was actually beginning to contribute to here that got me back into it. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 01:57, January 16, 2012 (UTC)
Cool, sounds like a plan.
I was never really big on dueling myself, but the collecting aspect of the TCG really tickles my inner (and outer =D ) OCD tendencies; the only reason I'm not collecting right now is because I have no money to do so with. As for the wiki, I think what really got me interested in contributing was the opportunities for working with templates (especially {{CardTable2}}) - there was lots done, but also lots left to do and plenty of ways to improve what we had - and being an admin just sort of goes with that type of work. ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 02:12, January 16, 2012 (UTC)
Does a group of cards having an anti-support card make it in archetype or not? I can't recall. If so, then the archetype cat needs to be added manually at this point. It categorizes it as a series since it has no support cards.
In regards to your edit summary at "Butterfly Assassin", I believe both are relevant. "Phantom Butterfly Assassin Morpho" and "Phantom Butterfly Assassin Swallowtail" use one spelling, while "Photon Butterfly Assassin" uses the other. All are used by Droite and are related thematically, so I think it counts as one series, unless a support card is introduced. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 05:06, January 16, 2012 (UTC)
My operating assumption has been "yes"; "Trap Hole" being categorized as a series instead of an archetype was an oversight on my part in {{Infobox archseries}}, which I just fixed.
There is also the possibility of any support card(s) listing both strings, which has happened at least once before. ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 06:49, January 16, 2012 (UTC)
What's going on at Virus Card? The new infobox is in place, the archetype category isn't manually inserted but the page is listing it as an archetype, but has no listed support. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 02:28, January 17, 2012 (UTC)
It has anti-support. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 02:45, January 17, 2012 (UTC)
*squints* Oh yeah, it does. Not sure how I missed that, especially given I just got done reading R like a month ago. Thanks. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 02:53, January 17, 2012 (UTC)
Why did remove most of the stuff from the "Cat" page?
I think all archetype categorization is now done, except for the "Umi" and "Polymerization" pages. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 04:42, January 18, 2012 (UTC)
Most of it was ultimately unnecessary exposition on what constituted an archetype member, from back when we were still nailing down definitions and best practices. I'd really rather remove said exposition from the one or two spots that have it then run around adding it everywhere else. ;)
Cool, good work! =D ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 15:20, January 18, 2012 (UTC)
Fair enough, I suppose as long as its on the archetype page itself that should suffice.
Keep in mind I said "I think". I may have missed some, so it wouldn't hurt to have someone else look through the category really quick to be sure. We do still need to update a lot of pages with the new infobox. I'll probably get around to some of that (specfically anything that appeared in GX, because I'm biased) today, but I don't plan on making a concentrated effort to update a lot of pages until I enter another one of my "feel like editing but not thinking" phases. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 18:16, January 18, 2012 (UTC)
I've been thinking for a while now about getting a subpage set up in my userspace for tracking archetype/series-related cleanup; I should probably get on that. ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 23:57, January 18, 2012 (UTC)
I just now noticed {{Archetype navbox}}. Didn't even know it was there. When did you get that finished? All the pages I've updated recently still use the old one, unfortunately. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 06:30, January 20, 2012 (UTC)
That is the old one, actually; I renamed it a while back. ;) It really doesn't matter which is used on any particular page, but the newer name is a bit easier to read IMO, so I usually switch it when I'm making other changes and I remember/notice. ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 06:35, January 20, 2012 (UTC)
Oh, nevermind. Just saw your redirect edit to the Cyber template. Fair enough. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 06:37, January 20, 2012 (UTC)
What are we doing with {{DecksAZ}}? It's not on some pages, I've removed it from others and ignored it altogether on more. Do we need this? Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 07:32, January 20, 2012 (UTC)
I don't know, to be honest. I've seen the template around myself, but never took much notice of it until now. The whole deck list thing needs to be rethought anyways; why is a hand-maintained list (that consists mostly of archetypes and series!) even necessary when we have a category? ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 19:34, January 20, 2012 (UTC)

History Merge

When I moved the LIGHT anti-support page, the history didn't move with it? --Golden Key (talkcontribs) 18:47, January 8, 2012 (UTC)

It's a difference of capitalization: you moved "List of anti-LIGHT support cards" to "List of LIGHT anti-support cards", but there was another (older) list at "List of Anti-LIGHT Support Cards"; this was the list that I history merged in. ;) ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 19:11, January 8, 2012 (UTC)

On a related note, every 3 or so moves my actions get "throttled" when I try to move another page, and I have to wait a few minutes. Is this intentional to prevent users from moving too many pages at once, or is it just a design flaw of the site? It's messin' with my groove. --Golden Key (talkcontribs) 04:24, January 13, 2012 (UTC)

Forum:Move throttle tracking thread was created for this. Or you could wait. Or, request for being an admin.
It's to slow down any annoying page move vandals. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 04:31, January 13, 2012 (UTC)
Lousy vandals. They're why we can't have nice things!
Anyway, it's only really an issue when I've moved a card's main page, gallery and rulings, but then have to wait to move its trivia and tips. Not that these things need to be done immediately, of course, it would just be nice to be able to do them all at once, instead of having to divide it up between multiple users and/or minutes. Adminship would be nice; not sure whose support I earned yet, though. :) --Golden Key (talkcontribs) 04:59, January 13, 2012 (UTC)
Well, you've never given me any reason to oppose a hypothetical request... ;) ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 06:40, January 13, 2012 (UTC)

Bogus Alert

Not sure if you're noticing... Boris is still on his old version after his ban being lift off. If you wish to know- oh wait, you knew about this already as you went and read Falzar's Talk Page? --FredCat 22:23, January 11, 2012 (UTC)

you want to becume Affiliates of geisha world--{{subst:Zen shadow}} 13:21, January 12, 2012 (UTC)

unecessery username.

Hey Dinoguy1000, can you delete this [1] (thats not a proper username)? Shardsilver (talkcontribs) 23:02, January 12, 2012 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I can't; it isn't possible to delete accounts in MediaWiki. Your best course of action would be to ask the editor to request a rename to something less offensive; Help:Changing your username documents the necessary procedure. ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 23:11, January 12, 2012 (UTC)
Slight missunderstanding. I ment to say "Block", not delete. Shardsilver (talkcontribs) 23:23, January 12, 2012 (UTC)
We don't block editors just on the basis of their username AFAIK. If he starts vandalizing, we'll probably block then. ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 23:34, January 12, 2012 (UTC)
Gotcha, thanks. Shardsilver (talkcontribs) 23:38, January 12, 2012 (UTC)
I thought it was: usernames that are designed to impersonate or attack users, or are offensive can be blocked indefinitely; with the "Prevent account creation" box unchecked.
If they have been vandalising, then that can be checked as well. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 01:34, January 13, 2012 (UTC)
That could be, actually; it would have been better to ask Delt instead of me. ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 01:36, January 13, 2012 (UTC)
Whether or not his username is offensive is sort of a matter of opinion though. There was user a while back whose user name was a swastika. He wasn't blocked. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 01:38, January 13, 2012 (UTC)
I think I remember that; wasn't it mentioned on Delt's talk page? ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 01:59, January 13, 2012 (UTC)
Yup. Granted, if someone had the user name "fuckyou", I think they'd be blocked. But the user in question isn't insulting anyone. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 02:07, January 13, 2012 (UTC)
There was also "Cheesedude2", who was infinitely blocked. The small level of vandalism from them wouldn't normally warrant a block, but since the username was specifically geared at impersonating/mocking another user, they shouldn't be using that account name again even for good intentions.
I don't think it's worth blocking every bad language username username that shows up in the user creation log if they show no signs of ever contributing. They're not as harmful. If they do decide to contribute and people have problems with their name, we can suggest they change name or get a new account. If it's for vandalism, block them. -- Deltaneos (talk) 21:18, January 13, 2012 (UTC)
I think quite a few of the last bad language names were people who went and spammed chat, so if we see one of these, after a while, we should check if they're on the chat. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 21:25, January 13, 2012 (UTC)

"clear" and "-"

In the past, my understanding of the difference between {{clear}} (div clear) and {{-}} (br clear) is that you use "-" when you need to add some more space, e.g. between an infobox and a navbox so that they don't touch off each other and "clear" when you don't e.g. between an image and a header. But really, the infoboxes are lacking CSS margins at the top and bottom. So a "clear" with the right margin CSS in the infobox should stop them touching too and it wouldn't sometimes leave extra unnecessary space in the default skin or different screen resolutions of Monobook. From what I gather on Wikipedia, "-" is to be used between inline tags, while "clear" isn't. I can't think of any times where we've used "-" for that. Do you think we should add the margins to the infobox and mass replace all {{-}} with {{clear}}? -- Deltaneos (talk) 20:54, January 13, 2012 (UTC)

I've never understood what the difference between the two was supposed to be... If no one can show a clear example of where one should be used over the other, and a clear explanation of why, I'd be inclined to just choose one and stick with it (and, probably, redirect the other to it). As for the infoboxes, I'd be fine with adding CSS margins. ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 04:56, January 14, 2012 (UTC)
I think the reason from Wikipedia I gave above was from when {{-}} used clear="all" and even at that the difference between the templates only applied to browsers that we shouldn't see outside a museum these days. -- Deltaneos (talk) 15:41, January 14, 2012 (UTC)
I figured as much; there's no reason any more to prefer clear="all" over style="clear: both;" (least of all because the CSS can be used on any block-level element). ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 18:39, January 14, 2012 (UTC)
After spending ages replacing a lot of {{-}} with {{clear}}, I think I should have been removing most of them outright. To date they've mostly been used to add a space between infoboxes and navboxes or infoboxes and Decklists as well as stop them overlapping in some browsers. The margin now adds that space and I don't think the overlapping is a problem in any in-date browsers, but we could add a clear: all to the top of {{Navbox}} and {{Decklist}} to be safe. Do you agree? If so, I probably (← tone: slightly skeptical) won't bother going out of way to remove them all, but will remove them as I come across them. -- Deltaneos (talk) 00:31, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, that sounds fine. TBH, we should probably just remove any and all occurrences without exception, and then only readd them when they're actually needed to correct an overlap or something in modern browsers... and even then, we should first check to see if it's something that can be reasonably addressed (e.g. we don't need style rules for a million little trinkets that are only used on 3 pages each) in the global CSS. ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 19:35, January 15, 2012 (UTC)

Broken ErrataTable

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Hello, Dinoguy1000. You have new messages at Forum:Page_Format_Reference#Errata_Pages.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Technical Stuff

1) Some .js stuff (namely the CustomRollbacks) seems to load after the whole page has loaded.
Once it has loaded, some of the text and links shift (they happen to move to the same location as where the undo and edit buttons were, the undo and edit are shifted left a bit), causing me to misclick things. There isn't a way to get the .js to load as the page is loading is there? or another fix you may think of.
2) Do you know if there is a way for AWB to add things to blank pages through Find and Replace (So I can use regex)? Apart from adding a category on one save, then replacing the category on another save.
Using Append/Prepend doesn't let me use mutliple seperate regex, and it occurs after the Find and Replace. So making it do the Find and Replace after Prepend would also be a solution to this, if it is possible.
-Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 02:09, January 25, 2012 (UTC)

For once, I'm not much of any help with technical questions. =D
I'm not familiar with the CustomRollbacks script, since I don't use it myself, but user scripts are always the last things to be loaded on pageload (or at least, they were before the introduction of the ResourceLoader in 1.17, which Wikia doesn't use yet...), and there's no way to change that without adding the script globally.
I've never tried creating pages in AWB, so I don't know too much about that either. What type of page are you wanting to create? ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 02:32, January 25, 2012 (UTC)
I used appendCSS in the .js but that apparently it loads as the page is loading (unlike the rest of the js stuff on the same page), not after the whole page loaded (was trying to get it to move down after the page has loaded).
Like for example, blank page (not new page), adding the OCG-TCG card image template.
I'm pretty sure I can get it to add all the stuff in prepend, except the name parameter. That will need regex to fix the name (which I have done before, when converting the TF images links to a card names list, didn't save it so you can't find it, I copied the list in edit mode to somewhere else), and I don't feel like saving twice. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 02:48, January 25, 2012 (UTC)
Hmm... I'd have suggested replacing it with CSS in your monobook.css file, but it seems there's no <body/> class that applies to Special:Contributions and all its subpages. =/
Aah, I see. Stupid question, perhaps, but have you tried a regular regex Find and Replace, just leaving the Find field blank? If that doesn't work, does having (.*) in Find and \1{{OCG-TCG card image... in Replace?
How exactly are you doing the name fixing (what are the regexes you're using)? In particular, how are you accounting for cards with omitted non-space characters in their names? ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 05:37, January 25, 2012 (UTC)
The current appendCSS in my .js is working fine, and applies for all Contribution sub-pages, as I wanted it to. I'm actually asking about the ones shown when you click on diff (or 2 changes)... and I just thought of a fix. The problem is that it if things are aligned to the middle, then if the text changes, the text shifts outwards. I just aligned it to the left, then no shifting occurs.
Leaving the Find field blank doesn't do anything, same thing (nothing) occurs for ., .*, ^, $ and ^$ in the Find field as well.
Putting spaces in front of capital letters, then the main exceptions like T.G. and X-Saber.
That covered almost all of them when I used it on the TF list. The rest back then on the TF list where manually changed. If I were to do it on a large scale, I could get SMW to list all cards, then easily filter out (by using a Find all option) and create 2 lists, one contains the real names of cards containing those characters (the small "and", "to", "a", etc), the other has them removed etc. Then get jEdit to create a massive Find and Replace file (this step is already macroed, I use it for the moved page fixes I've been doing, and a similar one for the double redirects except the lists are already here for me to copy paste). -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 07:07, January 25, 2012 (UTC)
Sort of technical stuff, so I'll continue. You or Deltaneos can answer this one.
Reckon I'll be violating any copyrights by uploading a few more images like File:ORCS-SP-Poster.jpg?
I've left them with high resolution because they are advertisement posters after all. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 07:08, January 27, 2012 (UTC)
Deltaneos has answered this one already so you can ignore this. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 02:53, January 28, 2012 (UTC)

Rank/Level on Card List

Oh, i just switched the two cause it looks much better than before. To me, it's been bugging me since the first time I modified it. Yeah... I was the guy who first designed order we sorta have now, but you guys have the Level/Rank switched. So, I just switched them back, cause it'd look much better than before. Not quite sure why it satisfy me, but I think it's because maybe we always see rank on the left-hand side of the card layout, and level on the right-hand side. Not sure about your opinion. Dude, I asked several times before. No one answered me... I think I used an IP address since my user account was slowing down and lagging when i tried editing before, but now it's okay. (I even tried creating a new user, but still...) LastMinute (talkcontribs) 06:57, January 27, 2012 (UTC)

stupid argument

Look, all I was doing was trying to make a slideshow out of images. The slideshow was a failure, and the images that were already on the wiki were uploaded at the same places as before. Okay? So I never just uploaded the same pictures in the same place for no reason. —This unsigned comment was made by Computer Bug (talkcontribs) 15:01, January 27, 2012

It would have helped, then, if you had told Falzar exactly why you were reuploading images after his first message to you; all of this unpleasantness could have been avoided and you probably could have even gotten help from someone (maybe even me, though I haven't done much of anything with the slideshow functionality, so I don't really know how to use it or how it works). ;) ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 20:37, January 27, 2012 (UTC)
The Wikia skin and previously the Monaco skin have features for inserting images for users who are unfamiliar with wikitext. They give you three ways of locating images: a list of recently uploaded images, a search and an upload button. The search is based on full words making it difficult to find images when we don't space out words in their filenames. I think that people save images from this site and reupload them because it's the only way they can see to insert them with these features. -- Deltaneos (talk) 22:07, January 27, 2012 (UTC)
Really? It doesn't even let you search image description pages? That is utterly retarded. ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 22:38, January 27, 2012 (UTC)
My thought exact, Dino... I mean Dino. --FredCat 22:49, January 27, 2012 (UTC)
So it automatically re-uploads the image even though you can use the image without re-uploading it anyways? -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 23:58, January 27, 2012 (UTC)
It doesn't happen automatically. The users do it themselves when they can't see any other way of adding the image. -- Deltaneos (talk) 00:12, January 28, 2012 (UTC)
So when you upload the exact same image through that feature, there's no warning saying the file already exists? (unlike what happens when you upload through Special:Upload)
@Dinoguy It's basically the same as the regular galleries, except you add type="slideshow" in the gallery tag.
-Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 02:53, January 28, 2012 (UTC)
This behavior just gets more and more retarded, the more that I learn about it. At the very least, the tool should offer the same warnings that the standard upload tool does. Ideally, though, it would check for any images on the wiki that are identical to the images the user is uploading - if there is already an uploaded image under that name, the image the user uploaded should be ignored, and if there is an identical image under a different name, the tool should automatically (though perhaps not silently) switch to the already-uploaded image.
@Falzar: Yeah, I think I've seen the code one or two times elsewhere. It actually makes a lot of sense to implement it by reusing the existing gallery markup. ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 07:09, January 28, 2012 (UTC)
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