This is the talk page for discussing the page, Trap Monster.
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Does the list near the top of the page have all OCG/TCG Trap Monsters? If not, could there be a list? 220.127.116.11 13:33, January 3, 2010 (UTC)
- I believe that currently, those are the only Trap Monsters in the OCG/TCG. DemonGodAsura 13:37, January 3, 2010 (UTC)
There recently has been 2 Trap Monsters added: "Curse of Statue" and "Soul of Statue", from Storm of Ragnarok but I do not know how to add them to the list. Dark Deadly Duelist (talk • contribs) 13:46, November 11, 2010 (UTC)
- You forgot about "Copy Knight".--Wasn't 14:06, August 17, 2011 (UTC)
- But the problem is that it is not a series either. As you said, it has support. The Tikis specify "Trap Card". Would that end up being the Archetype? I think it is best that we just limit it to Trap cards that can naturally become monsters through their own power. You know, to avoid "Magical Hats"? --LordGeovanni- (Talk To Me) *Kupo* 05:22, May 29, 2012 (UTC)
- It appears in WC10's Glossary under the title "Trap Monster", so it should be fine as a series.
- Also, it's technically support for any Trap Card, not just the ones that are "Trap Monsters". Use Magical Hats on any Trap Card and those Tikis work on them.
- Now consider why we agreed on adding Spells and Trap cards to Archetype Members (and not just monsters) and we see that it should not be an archetype, but works fine as a series.
- -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 13:11, May 29, 2012 (UTC)
- Sounds good for me. I don't care if the page is a series or archetype. I just want it to stay. I like my precious Trap Monsters... Yes I do! --LordGeovanni- (Talk To Me) *Kupo* 15:06, May 29, 2012 (UTC)
- But in that you are wrong. The Tiki Traps are not an archetype because there is no card that supports "Tiki Trap Card" or "Tiki" Cards. They would be a series because they share "Tiki". That too is false because there is not at least 3 different cards that share their focus with "Tiki" in their name. That is by large the problem that is faced here. How about calling these cards a Card Type? Just like cards like "Swords of Revealing Light", these cards preform actions that are different to the average (Trap Card in this case). --LordGeovanni- (Talk To Me) *Kupo* 19:30, May 29, 2012 (UTC)
What are the monsters?
I was thinking on this issue for a little while and came up with nothing. Maybe bringing it forward will have someone else think of an idea. The different Trap monsters are, by default, traps. Simple enough. I was wondering if there was a way (and if it would be important) to list what type of monster you are summoning. For example, "Copy Knight" is perfect for a Xyz Summon of a Rank 4 or lower Warrior because it actually requires a Warrior to be Summoned and is a Warrior itself. Other Xyzs require certain attributes or types as well. Should a table be made that details the monster that the Traps become? It would be pretty easy for me to construct. I could make a Sandbox to show what I mean. --LordGeovanni- (Talk To Me) *Kupo* 15:11, May 29, 2012 (UTC)
- Seems unnecessary, but construct it in a sandbox so we can get an exact idea of what you mean. --Golden Key (talk • contribs) 15:30, May 29, 2012 (UTC)
- I will try to have it ready within ~5 hours. By this time tomorrow for sure. I will post a link here when I am done. --LordGeovanni- (Talk To Me) *Kupo* 19:33, May 29, 2012 (UTC)
- Okay, I got the idea done a lot faster than I thought. It is here: User:LordGeovanni/Sandbox_Trap. I still have a problem between the column headings and the first card but I don't know how to fix that right now. What do you all think? --LordGeovanni- (Talk To Me) *Kupo* 20:33, May 29, 2012 (UTC)
- Excuse me? You may have the right to request for me to not write on your Talk page, and I respected that much, mostly because you aren't worth the hassle, but if you put an idea on a public forum like this, you have no authority whatsoever. I will continue to comment on any idea of yours that I feel like commenting on, and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it. I suggest you learn to accept that fact and move on.--YamiWheeler (talk • contribs) 21:25, May 29, 2012 (UTC)
- Fred, you don't need to interfere each time we have a disagreement. He is publicly asking what people think of his idea. I, just like Golden Key, think that this idea is unnecessary. Contrary to what he seems to believe, he can't prevent me from posting just because I disagree with him.--YamiWheeler (talk • contribs) 21:25, May 29, 2012 (UTC)
- Well, he's more than welcome to create the page on his own user page, but when it comes to the Wiki, he has no right to decide who has a say and who doesn't. I'm not going to omit my opinion on a tacky and unnecessary suggestion just to avoid him throwing his toys out of the pram.--YamiWheeler (talk • contribs) 21:31, May 29, 2012 (UTC)
- That's right, Joey - I have no right to deny what he want but I also not disagreeing, like you two did, for what he want. I support his opinion, reckless obviously or not. I used to be that way before when I started the Judge Rulings, put up the obviously rulings that was common known before. --iFredCat 21:37, May 29, 2012 (UTC)
Again, YamiWheeler is sticking his nose in my ideas. We have BOTH been asked by mods to leave each other alone. Again YamiWheeler has decided to refuse to listen. Again I have asked YamiWheeler to not get involved. Again YamiWheeler has decided to refuse to listen. Now, once again, I need to point out the fallacies in your argument. Of course after this you will just continue insulting me but whatever.
- Golden Key said that it "Seems unnecessary". Not that it is unnecessary. Stop putting words in other's mouths.
- Golden Key requested that I construct the Sandbox that I later did in order to best show what I meant. Now it is up to him to decide if it still "Seems unnecessary" to him. Not YamiWheeler. YamiWheeler's opinion cannot change this.
- YamiWheeler: "overcomplicate simple and obvious information." - This information is definitely not "Obvious" if a User needs to look up every single card to figure these things out. On top of that, there is NO way to place this into a query. The card creates a monster that is not a Token and is not an actual Monster card. There is no Flag for "Monster Type IF Trap Card that becomes a monster". THAT is over-redundant.
- This is not just simply saying that this Archetype/Series/whatever has monsters of certain characteristics. Not all of them are Normal Monsters. Nor are they all EARTH Attribute. This is exactly the same as the Number list. Why is he not complaining about that?
- Again, YamiWheeler feels that this Talk Page for Trap Monsters is the perfect place to insult myself and others.
- Again, YamiWheeler feels that other Users are not allowed to post their opinion about my ideas if their opinions could potentially be similar to mine.
- Wow, I love that you're so personally offended over my simple comment. FYI, it wasn't an argument, it was an opinion. I will continue to give my opinions whether you like them or not, regardless of how much you cry. You won't get away with putting something on a Wiki by whining over every person who disagrees with you. "Seems unnecessary" isn't much different to "is unnecessary", regardless, I have already looked at your Sandbox, and I think it is unnecessary. It is not solely up to Golden Key whether or not this goes through. And when you can find out information just by reading a card, it is most definitely obvious. Do you think that people are gonna put a card in their deck without reading it or something? You seem to be advocating players behaving foolishly, as usual. Also, whose insulted you? Disagreeing with you is insulting you? Or was it my being blunt? Guess what, once again, just because you don't like what you hear doesn't give you the right to tell people they can't post. I suggest you get over it because nothing is going to change. Finally, I find it entertaining that you accuse me of trying to silence people who agree with you, when you're trying to silence me for disagreeing with you. Just before you posted your rant, I told FredCat that we were both entitled to our opinions, regardless of who we supported. Get over yourself, seriously. You're not as important as you clearly think you are.--YamiWheeler (talk • contribs) 21:53, May 29, 2012 (UTC)
- Each of the statements I made are true. For example: Fred, you don't need to interfere each time we have a disagreement. Is that not a statement telling FredCat100 to butt out of you harassing me again? I am also not upset that you disagree. In fact, I expected it because it is my idea. The part that I am upset about is the subtle way you twist the intentions of my idea into being a childish demand. I am trying to propose a way that a User can check the cards quickly. Nothing more different than the Number page. This is a simple way in which to allow Users to understand these cards in a quick and precise manner when they visit this page. For example: On a Rank 4 Xyz Monster's Tip page: Consider using Trap Monsters to Xyz Summon this card quickly. This list is a simple and elegant way of showing what, if any are Warrior-Type for the Warrior Specific Material requiring Xyzs. Or a simple way to show that "Metal Reflect Slime" is likely not the best way to get a Rank 4 monster. Or, how about this..., stress the fact that certain Trap Monsters require a certain trigger to Summon themselves or prevent something else entirely due to their Summon. All of this on one page instead of nine. --LordGeovanni- (Talk To Me) *Kupo* 22:05, May 29, 2012 (UTC)
- No, I was telling Fred that he didn't need to get in between an argument every time it occurs. Whatever side he takes is irrelevant, but he feels the need to preside over us and I feel it to be unnecessary. Players who want to run those cards will need to look at those 9 card articles anyway to actually read the card and understand how it works. You are not advocating ease-of-use, but laziness. Not only that, but you're doing it incredibly condescendingly. The major problem I have with your suggestions is that, they are all spoon feeding unnecessary information to people, in a really ugly fashion that ruins the rest of the page, and doesn't really offer much to anyone except the dimwitted. If a person can figure out everything you put on a table and more by reading the card in question, why do you need the table? It honestly baffles me.--YamiWheeler (talk • contribs) 22:11, May 29, 2012 (UTC)
- And again you leave out certain things. Like the idea that you have the Right to tell Fred off for him deciding to step in when you began harassing me again. Additionally, what you call "spoon feeding unnecessary information" I call "Ease of access". This Wikia is intended to quickly inform individuals of the information that they require. Due to Xyz Summons, I have noticed an increase in Trap Monster use as well as questions about what Trap Monster to use. This would help. (My opinion). Even with that said, you still did not answer: Why are you not complaining about pages like the Number page? In fact, I have NEVER come across you attacking ANY other person in such this way. The only times I see you attacking a person's ideas are when they are my own. As such, HARASSMENT. You gave your opinion. You are entitled to that. Now please SHUT UP with YOUR bellyaching about my ideas. I need other's to give their input. --LordGeovanni- (Talk To Me) *Kupo* 22:17, May 29, 2012 (UTC)
- I have the right to do whatever I want, yes. I choose to adhere to certain rules, but you aren't even on the list of things that I have an obligation to listen to, or even respect. This Wikia is used to provide accurate information. Its intention is not to promote laziness. Your table lists certain aspects of the card, but omits others, and you expect people to use that as an accurate source of information. A person will look at your table, and either a) get the basic information about said card and then leave, not knowing how to use it properly and without any other relevant information that your table does not list, or b) they will look at your table, then read the card to understand it better, thereby getting all knowledge they would have gained from your table anyway, making it unnecessary. And let's not bring "use" into it. No one uses Trap Monsters in a 3 MST and 1 Heavy Storm format. No one cares what you call it, I am not harassing you. You have tunnel vision and only see my contributions one way. If you actually took the time to look at any of my edits, you'd see I tell off people all the time and am quite vocal against foolish suggestions. Indeed, I gave my opinion, so you understand I was not harassing you, and you recognize that it is merely my opinion, which you tried to silence. What an utter fail.--YamiWheeler (talk • contribs) 22:26, May 29, 2012 (UTC)
- And again you prove my point perfectly. If I am "aren't even on the list of things that (YamiWheeler has) an obligation to listen to, or even respect" then why are you still harassing me? Why continue to reply? Instead you continue to sit there and insult me. Additionally, what part of that is "without any other relevant information that your table does not list"? If it was feasible, I would most certainly add it. But that of course would require myself to feel that your opinion is something that I should listen to and respect. Further, if Trap Monsters are terrible, why are sales going up? Even further, I mentioned that I have "NEVER come across you attacking ANY other person in such this way". What part of that involves me stalking your edits? Further even further, we were told to not stalk each other's edits. Why would you assume that I was? And to finish, where did I say that I was trying to silence your opinion? Again, my logic is flawless in this argument. And you are still harassing me. --LordGeovanni- (Talk To Me) *Kupo* 22:38, May 29, 2012 (UTC)
- Indeed, wah, everyone is harassing poor LordGeovanni by disagreeing with him. Wah, LordGeovanni can't get his way. You aren't even using logic - what does stalking my posts have to do with anything? You said you haven't seen me arguing with other people, but if you haven't come across any of my posts, why would you use that as an argument? You aren't even arguing coherently - what do sales of random cards have to do with use? Your arrogance is so deluded, it's shocking. You're seriously boring me and I feel like I'm sitting here repeating myself again and again, and frankly, I have better things to do, while I know you'll continue all night long. I've said my piece, given a good argument and now I'm done with you.--YamiWheeler (talk • contribs) 22:42, May 29, 2012 (UTC)
- I am sorry, you are right. I should be typing slower and more simple for the slow and "dimwitted". My apologies. How is this for your answers? 1 - If I am not stalking your posts, I am not following your edits. If you do not follow a person's edits, you only see that person's arguments when they edit a page that you follow. 2 - Sales of cards results from demand of cards. Demand increases because of an increase of use. As such, I can believe that the Trap Monsters are increasing in use. Additionally, are you sure you don't mean "Your arrogance is so delusional" instead of "Your arrogance is so deluded"? That makes it seem like my arrogance is spread too thin. --LordGeovanni- (Talk To Me) *Kupo* 23:04, May 29, 2012 (UTC)
What are the monsters? Pt 2 (after the argument)
Well that escalated quickly... Anyway, what you made looks almost identical to List of "Trap Monster" cards. The only thing different is the Summoning restrictions, which doesn't seem worth mentioning. --Golden Key (talk • contribs) 15:03, May 30, 2012 (UTC)
- I apologize for the argument. It is just every time I have an idea, he shows up and is harassing me. Anyway, How exactly is List of "Trap Monster" cards almost identical to the list I have created? The only thing identical is the card name! The attribute is "Trap Card" and the Card Type is "Continuous Trap Card". That is why I even proposed this table. There is NO way to set up a query for this unless we add query flags similar to "Monster X, if Trap Card that becomes a monster under its own power". That seems even more silly than my proposed table. --LordGeovanni- (Talk To Me) *Kupo* 16:18, May 30, 2012 (UTC)
- Just so that I am understanding correctly, what exactly did you mean? That List of "Trap Monster" cards is silly? I think that that is a necessary evil to have boxes like the "Trap Monster" box at the bottom of this Talk Page's Main page. Did you say thata you feel my idea is "little better than this one"? If so, why do you think that? I am trying to make it easy for Users to identify which of these cards would best help them. For example, I try to avoid "Machine King - 3000 B.C." because it disables other Summons on the turn it is pulled out. In addition to its weak defense and counter productive ability. --LordGeovanni- (Talk To Me) *Kupo* 18:30, May 30, 2012 (UTC)
October 21st edit - "New Ruling"?
Hello everyone. I saw that there was an edit saying that there was a new ruling stating that Trap Monsters only occupy the Monster Card Zone and not the Spell/Trap Zone. Is there any basis to this? Neither the edit adding it nor the edit reverting it said the ruling in question precisely and the revert didn't mention anything really at all. --LordGeovanni- (Talk To Me) *Kupo* 19:49, February 13, 2014 (UTC)
- It was an unsourced claim made by a random new user who, based on another edit, was probably making up rulings to suit their own needs. --Golden Key (talk • contribs) 19:56, February 13, 2014 (UTC)