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This is the talk page for discussing the page, Scaling.

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I do not believe it should be erased as scaling is a valid part of YuGiOh. It is found very frequently as discussion in many YGO forums and I believe as such it deserves a spot on this site.

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Agreed. -- Lionheart2004 15:55, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Video and Pojo.com

The spelling mistakes in the video are deliberate, as part of the culture of e/b/uams world that the video is written by and aimed at. As for the two glory hounds, their names have been added should anyone have any questions on scaling. Both Balmung of Azure Sky and COTPS are easily found on Pojo.com forums, should any duelist have any questions on scaling.

A second, better and more grammatically correct video is going to be released in the next few weeks, again from Pojo.com, so until then I think this video should stay. --JerichoPojo 00:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Keep it as it is for now, we'll later consider your idea. --Dragon Slayer (Contribs Count) 00:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
How later? And also, a fair few people do watch the video from this page (700) and a fair few have come back to Pojo.com forums with questions, because this page does offer very little information on scaling. Just seems stupid to cut back on a articles information, when its already stubby enough as it is. --JerichoPojo 00:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Scaling is not looked upon favorably by Upper Deck Entertainment. No video for this reason.--TwoTailedFox (My Talk Page) 00:53, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
So are you saying that this wiki is now biased, TwoTailedFox?--JerichoPojo 00:55, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
I admit it wasn't fair to say glory seekers, but mentioning your names on the article so people can refer to you for questions may be considered advertising. Self-crediting within articles is against policy, you're credited by having your username appear in the page history, people find out how to contact you through that if they want to ask more questions.
As dishonest as some people may find it, we can't ignore the fact that it's a big part of the Yu-Gi-Oh! culture, hence it gets a article.
Since how to scale is explained within the article there's no need for the video.
Not being biased means we don't take sides and the video does seem pro-scaling. -- Deltaneos 08:18, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Ok the glory seekers part I can understand, but the Video been Pro-Scaling? I'v watched the video alot, and there is arugment for either side of scaling. Its presents a quick guide to scaling, something this article lacks.--JerichoPojo 09:36, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
The article mentions what it's used for and how to use one. What more does it need? -- Deltaneos 09:40, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
The video goes one step further and shows an actual demonstration. How is that not relevant to the article? All that I see is three lines, the first explaining the concept and then the other two explaining what rarities cant be scaled. And if UDE doesn’t like scaling, then TwoTailedFox, maybe that should be discussed as well, within the article instead of just cutting information off.--JerichoPojo 09:47, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
The article, states Ultra and Super Rare weigh more than Rare. You weigh Booster Packs on electronic scales, the heavier ones may have a Super/Ultra inside. The video does the same thing, a demonstration doesn't make it much clearer. -- Deltaneos 10:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
practically worshipping a scaler by calling it an Egyptian God, does seem pro-scaling. -- Deltaneos 10:06, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

so youre saying that, UDE, producer of the cards and organiser of events, shouldnt be acknowedged until the end, when discussing the fact that your advertising how to scam them out of money and rare cards? Horus-lord-of-the-volcanic-underworld 10:08, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Also use of yugioh media, that limits upperdeck entertainment to sell the product in any way is considered copyright violation. -- Deltaneos 10:10, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
  • No video on the article. This is not up for debate, and is non-negotiable. Stick to Pojo with the rest of the scalers.--TwoTailedFox (My Talk Page) 11:40, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

It sounds to me as though several of you have personal disagreements with scaling. Your opinions are certainly valid, as are everyone's, but personal bias should not get in the way of making sound, objective judgments. I think we can all agree that this Wikia is designed to provide users with the information that they need. I don't believe that this article is currently doing that as well as it could because a video actually demonstrating scaling would be helpful to clarify and/or reinforce the concepts already posted. I propose than an edited version of the video be posted which either:

A) Provides the viewer with clear, valid arguments on both sides of the scaling issue and then gives a demonstration of how to do scaling.

B) Is completely stripped of any unbiased personal comments.

I think that that's a fair compromise which, either way, provides the best results for readers.

1cewolf 14:24, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

No. The video uses yugioh media in a way that limits upper deck entertainment from making a profit with their yugioh product. That is illegal. -- Deltaneos 14:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
You may not agree with scaling, which I can understand, but it is no more illegal than selecting the best fruit at your local supermarket and leaving the rest for others - no products are being stolen or damaged, and the consumer has every right to try and select the best possible product. On top of that, there's still no guarantee that a desired card will be pulled. The element of chance is still quite in place and one may not even succeed at all with scaling. It doesn't deprive UDE of profit; on the contrary, scalers buying so many packs makes them profit and increases revenue and people will still buy the remaining packs.
I don't mean to be disrespectful, but if you believe that scaling truly is illegal then I would like you to explain why the UDE employees who frequent the Pojo.com forums, where scaling is openly discussed, have not taken action. If scaling was illegal, don't you think that UDE would have legally compelled Pojo take down the information?

1cewolf 14:58, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

It may still be seen as copyright infringment, since its using copyrighted cards made by ude, in a video for something they don't approve of. And you're also still ignoring the point that we don't need the video since the article explains how to do it. -- Deltaneos 15:08, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Deltaneos, you are wrong. Scaling does NOT break any copyrights and is NOT illegal. Scaling is a part of YGO. Always has and always will be. So why take it down? Knowledge about something should NOT be kept fromt he masses. And that is what YGO Wikia is about. To take down the scaling video would be censorship, andnobody wants that.

The article doesnt explain anything in reality. Its vauge and nondetailed. The video shows how it is done so people will understand it clearly. And Deltaneos, the fact your trying to say "well t he cards are copyrighted so they shouldnt be in it" is such a desperate attempt to see the video removed. Under that logic, no video on YouTube showing cards should be allowed. *Scoffs* Your just biased against scaling and want to see it gone.

Nowhere have I mentioned that we said we should exclude the video teaching people how to scale. Read my above comments, I acknowledged that is part of yugioh, that's why it gets a page. The page explains details on how to use it. That's sufficient. What extra knowledge does the video needed for?. And as I said the current video is pro-scaling. Behold the might of the Egyptian God Scaler. If it was the immorals that was my issue, I'd be agianst having the article, but my issue is with the video. -- Deltaneos 16:07, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Scaling is unethical, and I challenge anyone to dispute that. We acknowledge people do it, hence the article. If you want to learn how to scale, go do it elsewhere.--TwoTailedFox (My Talk Page) 16:13, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Delta, I understand that you're concerned but the video has been up for 3 months already and it has been -copiously- linked to via the Pojo.com forums for all to see, including UDE employees. In that span of time, if there was some sort of suspected infringement then don't you think that it would have been taken down? To date, nothing has happened and I don't see any reason why that should change. As the nameless (?) commentator above me pointed out, there are also a multitude of other videos on Youtube which feature Yu-Gi-Oh cards, yet they are all permitted to remain up.

I understand that there is currently an article in place. I'm not discounting its importance, but I do feel that it could be better. What I'm trying to convey is that I feel that a video featuring either one of my compromises would provide Wikia readers with a fuller, more detailed explanation of scaling. I'm sure that both of us want the YGO Wikia to be the best source of information available and I feel that a video would help us to further that goal. We should be unbiased and objective. Personal bias should not be allowed to govern what is allowed to be put up or what it taken down.

If you feel as strongly against scaling as some people feel in favor of it, then why don't we modify the article to include some of the reasoning from both sides so that readers can get a full understanding of the consequences (or lack thereof) of scaling?

1cewolf 16:14, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Forget the copyright thing and read my last comment. -- Deltaneos

To quote Deltaneos, Behold the might of the Egyptian God Scaler is not even mentioned in the video. It says something along the lines of "Behold the power of the Egyptain God Scales" instead making a mocking referance to the set of scales instead of the scaler themselvs. And I would know, l'v seen that stupid video more times then you. If anything, that line is aimed more at mocking Yu-Gi-Oh the show and card game, much in the same sense of the Abridged Series. Anyway, that doesnt matter, as l'v heard a better sequal is in the making after much demand on Youtube.--JerichoPojo 06:35, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Look, the page is to remain unbiased, as you know. So what it should do is acknowledge scalers/scaling's existance, what it is/how it works and people's reactions. It has all that. The purpose of this article is to address scalers/scaling not promote it, or tell people not to scale. The video promotes scaling. That's why you made it. If there was a video on how to avoid having people scale, it would be just a valid as your video, but we wouldn't host that either.
If you want to promote scaling, use the Pojo forums or YouTube, but not this site. -- Deltaneos 08:30, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Needs more information

It should list whether scales can detect differences for Secret Rares and Ghost Rares. Editing page to include Parallel Rare seeing how the page for Parallel Rare itself mentions the cards feel heavier. TehBazzard 06:40, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Do Secret and Ghost Rares weigh more of less than Rares? Em the Parallel Rare article doesn't say anything about their weight. -- Deltaneos (talk) 11:21, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

wall mart is scaling or the place where they get the cards but i have to admit i have picked up some ultimate rares at wall mart so the only places that i go are hobby shops such as the castle and target because i know they dont scale there cards (70.254.48.125 14:17, 5 July 2009 (UTC))

Watch up to 35 seconds. Enjoy. --JerichoPojo 06:03, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

off topic but interesting

i have a few friends who claim that the can feel the weight of the cards in a pack to scale without using a scale, they get a few rarer cards ocassionaly but no more than the average person. in fact ones they claim to have a secret rare or ultra in it tend to be all commons and a rare. i keep telling them its impossible to detect those minute differences (often less then .2 grams. yet they still do it (they even tried to "scale" hidden arsenal!!! a pack where youre guarenteed 4 supers and a secret always)


In my experience it is actualy noticeable on some packs (Both by look and sleight weight differences if you have very very sensitive/well trained hands) packs with a higher rarity MIGHT be slightly thicker than one with only commons and a rare, not a very "consistent" way to measure it, but it's still possible (Ofcourse your friends sound full of shit seeing how they try to "scale" hidden arsenal and they were wrong each time xD) I have however seen people being able to determine that there was atleast a higher rarity in a pack by just looking at it and feeling the pack (Or they had a lucky guess) --Tharannian (talkcontribs) 14:12, December 17, 2013 (UTC)

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