This is the talk page for discussing the page, Number holder.
Please try to
- Jin was never Number Hunter, he's his own character, unlike Rare Hunter. So I am glad you get him out. --FredCat 18:55, August 1, 2011 (UTC)
- Astral seemed to create out from the ship-thing in the Emperor's Key. We don't know that Yuma gets to keep it. It could be similar to Majestic Dragon. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 21:10, August 8, 2011 (UTC)
- While "Utopia Ray" may be a "Number", I don't think that it will count towards the 100 "Number" card limit. This is because each "Number" is a memory of Astral. He only created the "Chaos Number" because of his strong feelings of friendship (and no new memories were gained). However, this is still uncertain, until we see the next time that Astral goes and visits the Emperor's Key to unlock new memories. Plus, now with the existence of a "Chaos Number", we must not rule out the possibility of other "Chaos Numbers".
I doubt they will be more Chaos Numbers. Utopia was made to Chaos as a upgrade version to him which is common for the protagonists' Signature cards as we all have seen. DracoX (talk • contribs) 20:11, August 9, 2011 (UTC)
- Yea, yea, look at this dragon for reason, and Yuma will using more Chaos once he obtain certain Numbers. --FredCat 20:13, August 9, 2011 (UTC)
- Partially true. Although "Utopia" is his ace, it doesnt mean it's the only Number Yuma used. He also played "Leviathan Dragon" a few times. --The Goblin (talk • contribs) 20:21, August 9, 2011 (UTC)
- The "defeated" should be changed to "Eliminated". Jin showed that even if someone loses a duel with Numbers, the winner only takes the Numbers the loser had during the duel, otherwise Yuma would also have taken the Number Jin had hidden. Also, Tetsuo could be included in a "Temporary Numbers Hunters" or something. 126.96.36.199 (talk) 22:53, August 23, 2011 (UTC)
Both of you stop. If you continue, I'll lock the article and neither of you will be able to edit it. Discuss it here and see what others think. Stop edit warring. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 02:04, September 13, 2011 (UTC)
I'm just saying that Ryoga should be placed on there. But why don't we just leave the page alone and let other contributers decide. —This unsigned comment was made by 188.8.131.52 (talk • contribs) 02:07, September 13, 2011
- That's what the talk page is for. Seeing what everyone else thinks. Let me make something perfectly clear to both of you. It doesn't matter which of you right. You're edit warring. If you continue, I'll lock the article.
- In any case, I don't think that Ryoga should be listed. Perhaps he deserves a mention in the prose, but not the chart. Mention that he sort of "hunted" Numbers. Can you both agree to that, perhaps? Or do either of you (or anyone else) have a compromise in mind? Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 02:11, September 13, 2011 (UTC)
- I think that mentioning him is something I can agree with, but He shouldn't be put in the chart because he has no way of Taking Numbers nor does He want them. Jamesfury (talk • contribs) 02:15, September 13, 2011 (UTC)
Well first I'm going to have to make some adjustments to the portal pages, but my idea is that why don't you let me put in a "Temporary Numbers Hunters" section on the article. I think it's not a bad idea since a few people suggested it on here. —This unsigned comment was made by Firered16 SA (talk • contribs) 02:24, September 13, 2011
- ...but he didn't hunt the Numbers in the first place. So he's not a Numbers Hunter of any kind, temporary or otherwise. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 02:26, September 13, 2011 (UTC)
That's not what I meant. I meant maybe we should put Ryoga, along with Tetsuo and Tonosuke =, and maybe even the other Numbers Holders should be mentioned on a section called... "Numbers Holders?" You know what I mean (I hope) --Firered16 SA (talk • contribs) 02:29, September 13, 2011 (UTC)
Going with Firered. I've always considered there to be three types of Numbers Holders. Numbers Hunters (Yuma, Jin, and Kaito), Numbers possessed (Like Fuya, Tokunske, and Ukyo), and Standard Numbers Holders (Shark when he dueled Kaito and Tetsuo). All have Numbers, but they have different. Numbers Possessed is someone who's been controlled by Numbers, they're actions are changed due to Numbers corrupting properties, Numbers Holders are people who cannot take Numbers, but they can control them and are immune to this effect. Maybe we should rename this to "Numbers Holders" and make Numbers Hunters a subcategory. Jamesfury (talk • contribs) 02:35, September 13, 2011 (UTC)
Wow, all you did was erase everything of "Numbers Hunter" and renamed it to "Numbers Holders" then left. You know, there is a whole list of numbers and who they possessed in "Numbers". i don't think there is much stuff to talk about the holders since most of the stuff are already mentioned in that article. T_T LastMinute (talk • contribs) 02:59, September 13, 2011 (UTC)
- It's looking better now. My only comment would be that the article is at "Numbers Holder" and it also has a subsection called that. "Numbers Holder" works well as a catch-all term for those possessed, Hunters and others. The subsection should be renamed though. Not sure to what. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 03:15, September 13, 2011 (UTC)
- I think I may have found a clue. In episode 22, Orbital 7 refers to Yuma as a "Number Duelist". Could we consider that as an official term for the Number holders? --The Goblin (talk • contribs) 20:27, September 13, 2011 (UTC)
I can't rename this Numbers Holder
s since there's already 1 existing and it's redirecting to this. i could copy/paste, but i'm told not to. LastMinute (talk • contribs) 03:18, September 13, 2011 (UTC)
- How about Numbers User for the name? Sound more general and is correct for all the cases EBFWR (talk • contribs) 03:35, September 13, 2011 (UTC)
- Sure, why not. but that "Number Holder" sub-article about Shark and Tetsuo is really confusing me. i was like, "What?...". that's just messed up. it needs a different name. LastMinute (talk • contribs) 03:45, September 13, 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, Charlie was using his luck to steal cards for some reason, and he just happened to take one of Yuma/Astral's Numbers. It doesn't seem like he had a desire to take them. 184.108.40.206 (talk) 08:27, November 24, 2011 (UTC)
- Only one card was shown to be a Xyz Monster. We don't know whether it was a Number or not. --220.127.116.11 (talk) 12:36, December 5, 2011 (UTC)
Hunters + Abbreviation
- What does "TBC" stand for?
- Shouldn't the "Numbers Hunters" list be in a separated page?
User:LegenaryAsariUgetsu, December 31st, 2011, 10:52 (UTC)
- My only guess is "to be confirmed", since we don't know what it is yet.
- I would say that eventually we will need to split it. Right now, I think it's fine how it is. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 19:48, December 31, 2011 (UTC)
- Following Cheesy's comment, it can also used as "To be continued..." but that's not true. --iFredCat 02:36, June 10, 2012 (UTC)
Holder vs. Hunter
Hey, don't you think there should be two different articles for Numbers Holders and Numbers Hunters??? I mean, there is a bit of a difference between the two. If you're a Number Holder, you possess a number, but don't necessarily want to have more Numbers or are looking for Numbers.And if you're a Number Hunter, you wish to possess more Numbers and you don't actually need to possess a Number to hunt for them. --PhotonKaito (talk • contribs) 01:31, June 10, 2012 (UTC)
- Well separating it makes no sense at all. A Number Hunter is also classified as a Number Holder but thats not how it goes for Number Holder to be classified as a Number Hunter so thats why it was in the same page but was separated in the page ----SharkTenjo 01:47, June 10, 2012 (UTC)
- I'm in favor of split. While all Numbers holders are inclined to gather more numbers, they don't seem to be actively hunting them. We've already been able to divide the hunters into their own category on the page, might as well go with a full separation. Or not, whatever. --Golden Key (talk • contribs) 03:41, June 10, 2012 (UTC)
Number Hunter being "Defeated"
Seriously how do we classify Number Hunter as being defeated? When IV and III dueled Kite and Yuma, oviously they were defeated in a duel so why wasn't IV been placed as defeated at that time when clearly they were defeated. Gauche's duel with Yuma was more on a "friendly duel" so if a friendly duel is accepted as defeat, does that mean that Yuma as well is defeated since Bronk defeated him lots of times? --SharkTenjo
- Regarding Droite and Ghauch, they stopped hunting Numbers when they entered WDC as regular participants. -- The Goblin I'm feelin' the flow 14:57, July 2, 2012 (UTC)
- Also, Yuma was not marked as defeated Hunter - it was Number 96 that controlling the duel where Brock came in and defeated Yuma. --iFredCat 15:04, July 2, 2012 (UTC)
- I guess after they played their final duel (as a Number Hunter).
- Fortuno lost both a duel and his soul. No doubt that he was defeated.
- IV fell unconscious (fell into coma?) like his brothers and couldn't hunt Numbers anymore. Though I doubt he's defeated since he still has Numbers, unlike other defeated hunters.
- Captain Corn turned to corn after his loss to Yuma. (an unusual way to die from a duel)
- Thunder Spark reverted to his original form after his loss to Yuma. (another unusual way to die from a duel)
- Koron-chan stopped working for Mr. Heartland as a disguised hunter and befriended Yuma.
- -- The Goblin I'm feelin' the flow 15:57, July 2, 2012 (UTC)
- Actually Goblin, i was referring to the FRIENDLY duels Bronk had with Yuma because when Yuma dueled Gauche, it was a friendly duel but marked Gauche defeated but well the new edits seems to clear things --SharkTenjo
Should we add tron as a number hunter? He did hunt for Kite's numbers --SharkTenjo
- I think we should. Btw did anyone actually count how many Numbers Kaito had?--Laggia Will Lag You(Talk) 13:41, July 17, 2012 (UTC)
- Kaito is left without any Numbers. --The Goblin 13:53, July 17, 2012 (UTC)
- It's hard to tell how many Numbers Tron took. We know he took all of them, but not the numerical value. I'm curious if the number taken correlates with the count we've been updating since Kaito debuted. Some of the cards are shown being taken, then the scene switches and you see around eight or so enter Tron's hand. They didn't show the whole process at the same angle, so I don't know that we can get a count. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 16:09, July 17, 2012 (UTC)
Number 96's species
- Apparently Number 96 is NOT a Barian. Yuma and Number 96 himself said that he was born in Astral World. The only thing that is barian on #96 is that he got corrupted due to Don Thousand's power which was confirmed but that doesn't make him part of the Barian species. Pls change it ----SharkTenjo 03:51, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
Well in episode 112 Don Thousand says that Number 96 is actually a portion his power he had left on Astral after their fight. So in that sense sounds that his origins are Barian for that matter. DracoX (talk • contribs) 00:26, August 17, 2013 (UTC)
Human and Barian NHs
Why do we separate them? I think its more logical to separate the defeated/inactive to the ones who are active. It will only cause confusion ----SharkTenjo 02:48, August 16, 2013 (UTC)
Sounds good to me, as long as Number 96: Black Mist is not listed as a Barian I am happy. Although I do wonder to whether Number Hunters are then listed in order of appearance in the anime and manga (as separate lists respectively)... it could get quite lengthy. :s
Maybe colour code the Barians, Number's Guardians, N96:DM and Don Thousand so as to make them easier to find for people that a searching for them (just on the premises of plot importance thus peoples interest)? :) --slave(command) 04:18, August 30, 2013 (UTC)
- Yeah, I have no idea why they've been separated that way. I support listing them in the above way instead. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 04:27, August 30, 2013 (UTC)
Since when the Barians used Barian's Force to take Numbers?
It was CLEARLY stated in the anime that they cannot take Numbers themselves so they either have to duel in a Sphere Field or brainwash humans to fight for them. Stating that the Barians can take Numbers with Barians Force is pratically screwing up the logic of the whole CXyz arc in the anime where they (the barians) brainwashed people to fight for them.
Also No96 doesnt have to use Chaos Field. He is just like Astral. He can absorb them by himself.
- I'm not sure on the Barian force front so I shalln't comment on that, but with 96 it was never shown how he obtained Number cards, seeing as he had his own and 65 was obtained of screen, so perhaps he should be listed as Unknown as either BF/chaos field/himself would be specualtion. Photonkrios99 (talk • contribs) 23:22, September 17, 2013 (UTC)
No more editing this until you've solved the problem on the talk page. Air it out here. I don't care who is right, this edit warring has to stop. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 16:34, September 18, 2013 (UTC)
- Its simple Trey and Quintin have not been shown taking a Number using their crests. So adding that they are the method used to take numbers is unconfirmed speculation, which would be against Wiki policy. Photonkrios99 (talk • contribs) 16:37, September 18, 2013 (UTC)
Well this has started up again, after a month, when I was the only person who bothered to argue my case for no GD reason. I still don't remember it being said that Trey and Quintin use their crest to take numbers. And saying that because they can create a sphere field means that their crests can do is a poor connection given that their crests weren't shown to create them directly, and it could have been a technological ability put into the braclets they are wearing by Quintin and Vetrix, esically given that the Barians, who gave Vetrix the power of the crests don't appear to have the ability to create a sphere field with out the use of cubes.
Firstly, no one bothered to tell me about this talk page, and second, if Trey and Quniton can create a Sphere Field with their Crests, shouldn't that be more than enough proof that they can use them to take Numbers? It doesn't have to just be with their original crests you know.
Besides, I've seen a lot of articles on here that were speculation but people seemed to be okay with it, like putting Fortuno down as a Number Hunter, even though he acted like any ordinary Number Holder, or listing Barian's Force as a means to obtain Numbers. How would they use it exactly, and if so then shouldn't the Barian Force users be listed down as Numbers Hunters? --Firered16 SA (talk • contribs) 15:26, October 29, 2013 (UTC)
- Where did they say they did it with their crests. Looking at the translations here;
- It doesn't even reference them as a sphere field so you can't say that they using their crest to create it given that there isn't actually a sphere field made, in the context that the sphere field is usually used in either case.
- And to address some of your earlier points;
- Fortuno - http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Number_holder#Jin it was established he was a number hunter given that he was hunting them on behalf of Kite.
- Barians Force - As I have said in my edits to you, BF was the tool by which the barians were possessing skilled duelsits and giving them as a method to defeat and therefore collect the numbers. Though it is no directly doing it I would say that it is a valid method of obtaining numbers seeing as it is the route of the power to do so.
- And a further point about the crests;
- A - still has not been shown to take numbers by either of them.
- B - On the note of them creating a sphere field, The crest are varian powers given to Vetrix and Co. by the Barians, who them selves can not create a sphere field out of thin air, the only character who has had the power to do so was 96 who was a mini DT at the time which enabled him to do it. On this note, how could watered down versions of the original create something that the original it self could not make. Photonkrios99 (talk • contribs) 15:47, October 29, 2013 (UTC)
- If Fortuno was considered a Number Hunter, then how come he only appeared in two episodes, had the markings fro both Numbers and the typical dark aura on him, and pretty much acted like he was under their influence? In case you forgot, a Numbers Hunter is someone who's immune to the Numbers effects, which Fortuno was not.
- Barian's Force was only used to brainwash duelists to take Numbers, that was it. It was never stated it could be used to take them, so it shouldn't be listed as a method.
- I never said their original Crests could do that, but with their new Crests it's very possible. --Firered16 SA (talk • contribs) 16:05, October 29, 2013 (UTC)
- Re-read the 'Jin' section and you'll find the answer to the pint regarding fortune.
- BF was a tool, if changing that part to 'possessing duelist using Barains Force' would be better, which in all fairness would seem like a better idea as that was how Gilag was planning on taking Yuma/Shark numbers, a plan which Vector went on to use.
- Again, the new crest would still be the watered down version of the original power, so the way in which the sphere field, which it wasn't called by the way, was created could just as easily, and frankly more likely, to have been from a technological perspective, Faker had tech to create his, the barians spawned them without using their barian power, so it seems more likely that Vetrix has been able to isolate whatever it was that aloud faker to create it and compact it for it to be more portable. But as this, much like YOUR suggestion that the crests created the sphere field, that isn't actually called a sphere field in the episode, or YOUR idea that they actually use their crests is speculation hense why it is not on any relevant page. Photonkrios99 (talk • contribs) 16:15, October 29, 2013 (UTC)
- I know. I made that edit, just like how i cleaned up the Numbers Hunters article when it looked screwed up.
- They never stated how Barian's Force could be used to gather Numbers, even if it does control duelists how would they obtain them? That was only Girag's method, used once by vector and Alito. --Firered16 SA (talk • contribs) 17:34, October 29, 2013 (UTC)
- And who does the article list as using Barians Force as a Method. Oh right Those 3. How the possessed duelist would have taken the numbers is Unknown. But it was stated that they were, and by extention Barians force was the main Method in which Girag and later used on occasion by Vector and Alito, although I'm sure Alito used his to control Nisto, was to obtain the Numbers. Else why was it done. Photonkrios99 (talk • contribs) 17:52, October 29, 2013 (UTC)
- But as I have already proven this has not been label a sphere field in that context. If you go to the page it says nothing of the bracelet field having an effect on numbers, but rather acts as Zexal field negating the effects of the pain inflicting barain field that is over the earth, not sure where that came from, but saying that the Bracklet field CAN TAKE THE NUMBERS, at this time would be speculation. Photonkrios99 (talk • contribs) 19:43, October 29, 2013 (UTC)
The crests being shown to generate a sphere field like area was only shown recently; I am fairly sure that one of them would have used a Sphere Field if that were their method of taking Numbers. I personally think this new ability should be attributed to the bracelets because the BRACELETS flashed but the crests didn't light up. I don't know where that info that it cancels the barian field is, that bit should get shot down immediately because that's completely false. The purpose of this recently deployed field was quite obviously to trap multiple Emperors at once to prevent them from chasing Yuma. If its primary purpose was to cancel the Barian Field's properties they would have used it in the very beginning, and nothing was mentioned in the episode about it canceling Barian Field; I would have at least heard something of the like. While I can see how a Sphere Field would trap everyone inside, I don't think this is a Sphere Field either because it acts differently from the Barians' Sphere Field; notice how it didn't wreck the bridge they were on. It formed a hemisphere above them that trapped everyone within. They're not floating around either, as was the case with both types of sphere field shown before. I am of the opinion that the entire family's crests could take Numbers, but I don't know that for sure so I am against putting that up because that is personal opinion rather than a "proven" fact.
On the flip side, I am opposed to putting up Barian's Force as a Number hunting agent because that's also extremely questionable. I can't quite express my exact feelings about it, but the logic is slightly off with that. It's never been seen to take a Number, so there's no proof that it in itself is a Number taking agent. I don't have a reasonable explanation to argue otherwise, but it feels like speculation as it is currently even though it is the best in a list of bad choices. I really think all mentions of it as a number hunting agent should be removed as well.
Who has it? We see Vector with it in the opening but he might not get it for a while yet - Do we have to wait for an episode to air which (ignoring the opening) he is shown with it/said he has it? Or can we use the opening as evidence? Because before this opening it was disputed whether Vector got the Numbers 96 had or Yuma did... But now the opening... --slave(command•works) 21:41, October 10, 2013 (UTC)
- Yeah, probably with 96, so…we cant say for sure…NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs) 16:09, October 29, 2013 (UTC)
Ok, now it been decided that these are to be listed with the Barians, do we add a nother tot he listing as we can't say which is which, or do we go with 15/40/88 with Nasch and 6/9/33 with Mizeal for obvious reasons. Photonkrios99 (talk • contribs) 20:04, November 26, 2013 (UTC)
Nasch's method to take Numbers
Nasch, not "Reginald Kastle", must have a method(s) to take Numbers as he's the leader of Barians and one of the strongest. I think it is wrong to say he has no method at all. I suggest that we change it to unknown instead. Tell me if someone agree with me.--Shadowdarkone1 (talk • contribs) 22:37, January 4, 2014 (UTC)
Number Hunters Goals
- Because I did not remember him sayin that he wanted Photon Dragon but if you guys remember it I have no problem. But in my honest opinion "Confirm himself as the True Dragon Tamer" sums it up pretty good. Yano88 (talk • contribs) 17:36, February 25, 2014 (UTC)
- He said would control both Galaxy Eye's after his first duel with Kite ended in both versions, so it's safe to assume that was his goal. Being a True Dragon Tamer would mean he would have ownership of both Galaxy-Eyes, not just defeating Kite. --Firered16 SA (talk • contribs) 17:54, February 25, 2014 (UTC)
Method to control Numbers
Alright there is a debacle on Method to control Numbers. Let's discuss it right here. Here is my opinion: Number 96 does not need Chaos Field to control Numbers mainly because it was never mentioned that said Field had that power. Also Number 96 is a Number so... I really dont think it cab be manipulated by... himself? lol. Rather than "Unknown" I would put "None" to 96 because he does not need to control himself. Yano88 (talk • contribs) 21:35, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
- I would agree. He doesn't need a method to control Numbers since he is one. He controlled his own Number and 65 with no problems, before Chaos Field even existed. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 02:29, August 30, 2014 (UTC)
- Even so, Number 96 did use it to use and Rank-up Yuma's Numbers. That's gotta count for something. --Firered16 SA (talk • contribs) 04:54, August 30, 2014 (UTC)
- Chaos Field generated once 96 obtained the power of Chaos through Barian's Force. It just gives him more power. 96 was able to control NumberCs with no problem as seen with no65 so... Chaos Field does not give him any new abilities. He is capable to control Numbers without any external aid. Yano88 (talk • contribs) 08:39, August 30, 2014 (UTC)