This is the talk page for discussing the page, Lswarm.
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Steelswarm a sub-archetype
So does this mean that Steelswarm is a sub-archetype to Verz?? Like Xx-Saber-Xsaber, R-Genex-Genex??? So Verz's supports support Steelswarm but Steelswarm support doesnot support VERZ entirely? can someone confirm this? 33royward (talk • contribs) 05:08, September 18, 2011 (UTC)
- A quick check of the kanji reveals that's correct. "Verz" support cards support "Steelswarms", but not the other way around. The fact that the TCG changed "Inverz" to "Steelswarm" complicates things as far as how to word support cards. Hopefully the TCG name for "Verz" will help clear that up when we get to that point. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 05:20, September 18, 2011 (UTC)
The idea where Steelswarm Roach survives the fight against Vylon and infects the other duel terminal making them "Verz" monsters is sort of weird. how would the infected ones become the main archetype from the sub-archetype. LastMinute (talk • contribs) 06:07, September 21, 2011 (UTC)
- Maybe Verz became the main archetype after the destruction of Steelswarm monsters (something like the Six Samurais and Legendary Six Samurais) because in the story of "Duel Terminal" the Steelswarms were the first who unleashed the "Infestation" to the world, but when the "Vylon" monsters and the other arquetypes defeated them, the only survivor was Steelswarm Roach. Behind him are blue flames, similar to the color of the "Verz" symbol, and considering that he appeared after when the rest of the "Steelswarms" were exterminated, he spread the "Verz" virus to the other archetypes, and since in theory, the "Steelswarms" no longer exist in the history, the "Verz" became the main archetype (I know, it's complicated, but as I said, they are similar to the "Samurais", in some way).
Dragunity_Slifer (talk • contribs) 16:58, December 15, 2011 (UTC)
Major Page Editing
Cmon, this page need a major editing. Its really revealed that Steelswarm is the Sub-archetype to Verz and yet some statement does not make sense like the statement:
"Evidently, this archetype share a close name with "Steelswarm" (Inverz, インヴェルズ), an archetype from the previous Duel Terminal story arc."
cmon, it share a close name because Steelswarm IS a Verz Sub-archetype. also another statement is:
"The strategy of the "Verz" seems to be similar to the "Steelswarm"...."
- They are goddamn NOT same archetype. It's because Steelswarm is INverz, while Verz alone is NOT Swarm. Verz is indeed "Steel" but known as Virus (not you, Seto, so shut up about money) that can corrupt the monsters and turned them against the rivals. --FredCat 00:37, September 19, 2011 (UTC)
- That therefore straight your previous respond, you said "similar to the Steelswarm"... But they do not have similar strategy, Steelswarm lacked Xyz while Verz does. --FredCat 00:51, September 19, 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, i just want to say that I said that first statement, "Evidently, this archetype share a close name with "Steelswarm" (Inverz, インヴェルズ), an archetype from the previous Duel Terminal story arc.", you said was my work. Yeah, i know it sounds weird, but i wasn't so sure at first, until now that is. So, you can change that if you want. just letting you guys know. LastMinute (talk • contribs) 01:01, September 19, 2011 (UTC)
- Well i think that it should be called Steel because you got "Inverz" which is "Insect Verz". I'm pretty sure they switched the two to make "Verz Insect" hence getting the name "Steelswarm" ("Verz" = "Steel" and "Insect" = "Swarm"). Youngsevon (talk • contribs) 22:37, September 20, 2011 (UTC)
- Then you're speculating. For one, that would create confusion with other "Steel" cards. "Steel Ogre Grotto 1", and "Steel Fan Fighter", for example. Those are clearly not "Verz" cards. You cannot just assume that's what they'll change it to. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 17:39, September 20, 2011 (UTC)
Verz = Evilswarm
Scanned an import DT13 Verz Kaitos, and the english machine displayed his name as Evilswarm Ketos.
changing page names now
Hi! I'm YRPOtaku169! 03:24, April 15, 2012 (UTC)
Are we sure this is really the translated name?
Because this seems rather...lazy...
- Well, actually, I don't think erratas would be needed if this was real. Inverz support cards don't support Verz cards, so the future cards could just say "Steelswarm" and "Evilswarm", and the older cards could remain the same. But that said, this image looks fake to me. --Golden Key (talk • contribs) 03:55, April 15, 2012 (UTC)
- Whatever the case, one image in crappy quality with no backup source of any kind is by no means given fact. Until Shriek or another credible source says otherwise, it's staying Verz. The Pope 04:20, April 15, 2012 (UTC)
- K if you guys are going to be faggots about it, I'll record a video of it tomorrow. There doesn't need to be a backup source, Konami makes the damn machines. If you're too ignorant to know what an Action Duel X screenshot looks like you don't really have any business making judgments on this.
- Changing back to Evilswarm because it's as real as the March 2012 banlist.
- We're not going to wait 5 months for Duel Terminal 7a to come out in English because we don't need to. It's right here, the card reads just fine in current machines.
- I really don't care personally. You're acting like that picture can't possibly be fake. I'm not saying it is fake, but we need to know for sure. You had absolutely no business coming in here and throwing a hissy fit over this issue. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 05:01, April 15, 2012 (UTC)
- Here's a video of the Action Duel X Duel Terminal thing. They don't even show the card name like the screenshot shows until 6:20. I'm iffy about it, personally, but you can decide how valid this is.--YamiWheeler (talk • contribs) 11:45, April 15, 2012 (UTC)
- Uh...are you sure you posted the right video? From the looks of it, that's about 3 months old, and I didn't see any Verzes/"Evilswarms" in sight. At 6:20 all I saw was Fabled Leviathan standing there looking spooky.The Pope 15:43, April 15, 2012 (UTC)
- If that's all that proves, then it's still not enough. Photoshops are ridiculously easy to do if you know what the source material looks like; how do you think we get those dozens of fake ban lists come every February/August? This could easily just be a photoshop using the same materials. The Pope 16:22, April 15, 2012 (UTC)
- Yeah, the English names are irrelevant. That being said, they English cards will probably print "Verz" support cards as "Steelswarm" or "Evilswarm", since just "Swarm" conflicts with other cards. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 01:42, April 16, 2012 (UTC)
- I'm inclined to believe him, yes. However, I would advise against running around and moving every "Verz" article just yet. If this is true, It's likely to be reported somewhere else soon enough (though I certainly won't revert any moves that do get done. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 01:53, April 16, 2012 (UTC)
- Here's my question...how does an English machine have information on a set that isn't even printed yet? The Pope 01:50, April 16, 2012 (UTC)
- DTs can read two sets ahead of where they are in the TCG (but CANNOT read Duel Terminal Promos such as Genex Neutron, Steelswarm Roach or Gem-Knight Emerald) Because of this, you can scan in anything from DT12 or DT13, despite our current machines being on DT06a TCG (DT11). 22.214.171.124 (talk) 02:00, April 16, 2012 (UTC)
- Also, people won't be reporting on this because this is original research rather than any kind of publication. Relying on news sites for something like this is unrealistic. Nobody cares about Duel Terminal gameplay, as far as regular douchebags are concerned DTs are for putting in money and getting cards from. We only know this because we thought to do the research on our own. This isn't ever going to be on someplace like shriek because that's not the kind of reporting they do. 126.96.36.199 (talk) 02:00, April 16, 2012 (UTC)
- Er...what are you talking about? They have stuff in Duel Terminals all the time. The Pope 04:42, April 16, 2012 (UTC)
- You're welcome to try to find a single Duel Terminal news article that isn't just a Duel Terminal set listing made around the time Japan or the US get their respective releases.
- I would have waited just a bit more to have the second half of the names confirmed before moving them; so we don't need to move them twice.
- Guess we went with it as soon as Deltaneos moved the rest of the pages and images. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 01:00, April 20, 2012 (UTC)
I love how you dickheads have the proof in front of your eyes and you are just too much of a hard-headed dick to change it. I mean, its there, why don't change it, morons? It's evilswarm, the devastation cards will support swarm monsters, or "Lswarm". You got the proof, take the dick out of your heads and leave it there. --Yes, im Pato (talk • contribs) 03:21, April 20, 2012 (UTC)
- ...It's already been changed. What are you even talking about, Pato? And do not insult other users like that. There is no reason for it. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 03:45, April 20, 2012 (UTC)
The name stood, there is nothing else to discuss here. And regarding my vocabulary, today is self-claimed Dick-Day. So, instead of saying fucking in the middle of everything, I'll add Dick :) . Have a good discussion. --Yes, im Pato (talk • contribs) 03:56, April 20, 2012 (UTC)
- ... Wow, that's so stupid, I'm shocked. Good luck dealing with that headache.--YamiWheeler (talk • contribs) 11:57, September 28, 2012 (UTC)
- So they called them "Evilswarms" but the lores read "lswarm" for support? This is complicated. We could keep this page and make a new "lswarm" page, but that wouldn't be accurate to the Japanese card lores (all "Inverz" monsters are implicitly "Verz"). So I'm not sure how to handle this. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 12:15, September 28, 2012 (UTC)
- I agree with just moving this to "lswarm" and have this page as a redirect. (card names use "Evilswarm" because "lswarm" is not easily pronounceable, the terrible choice of "lswarm" is only used in card effects for archetype definition purposes and we go by archetype definitions not card names here)
- -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 12:43, September 28, 2012 (UTC)
- Those should both use lowercase, not the other way around. As I've said elsewhere, the "discussions" that led to those pages being capital were circular arguments (each pointed to the other for support), and all of the card lores use the lowercase forms. 「ディノ奴千？！」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 18:45, September 28, 2012 (UTC)
Is lswarm not the collective name of both "Steelswarm" and "Evilswarm"? Therefore, this sentence is kind of inaccurate: ""lswarm", known as "Verz" (ヴェルズ Veruzu) in the OCG is a Duel Terminal archetype of DARK-Attribute monsters" - the archetypes are "Evilswarm" and "Steelswarm", but they are collectively referred to as "lswarm." Or am I missing something?--YamiWheeler (talk • contribs) 18:49, September 28, 2012 (UTC)
- It's a unique (read, stupid) situation resulting from the TCG trying to fix the botched naming of the "Steelswarm" archetype. It would be pointless to make both a "lswarm" and a "Evilswarm" page. --Golden Key (talk • contribs) 19:13, September 28, 2012 (UTC)
- I understand that, but calling "lswarm" the same as "Verz" is wrong, because "Verz" is the name of the archetype in the OCG, while "Evilswarm" is the counterpart in the TCG. I agree with what Thanonyx said on your talkpage, we should make "lswarm" the archetype, with "Steelswarm" and "Evilswarm" being sub-archetypes. (Thank you so much for this, Konami, and inb4 Kevin Tewart says "Japan did it.")--YamiWheeler (talk • contribs) 19:16, September 28, 2012 (UTC)
- @calling "lswarm" the same as "Verz" is wrong, because "Verz" is the name of the archetype in the OCG
- From only looking at the effects of the cards, "インヴェルズ" (Inverz) and "ヴェルズ" (Verz) = "Steelswarm" and "lswarm".
- When the OCG refers to a "Verz" card, it refers to both "Verz" and "Inverz". (as such, when the TCG refers to a "lswarm" card, it refers to both "lswarm" and "Steelswarm".)
- Evi is extra text, to make the card name easier to pronounce, none of the effects use it right?
- -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 01:17, September 29, 2012 (UTC)
- I can not find any official TCG source for the renaming from "Evilswarm" to "Lswarm". The archetype is still called "Evilswarm", despite they are related with "Steelswarm". You did not change Steelswarm to Lswarm, so why you did that with Evilswarm ? For example, Verz Zahhak in OCG is called "Evilswarm Zahak" (Duel Terminal 7) in TCG, not "Lswarm Zahak". So the archetype is Evilswarm. It's the same stupid action like you did with "Number 92: False Skeletal God Dragon, Heart-earth Dragon" that you have changed to "Number 92: Fake-Body God Dragon, Heart-eartH Dragon". There is no source for his TCG name, it's just because of a translation you did. Konami makes the card names for TCG, not you. Please stay by the truth.--TheGallisMan (talk • contribs) 20:54, September 28, 2012 (UTC)
- Ok, Gallis, let me try to explain this. In the OCG, "Evilswarm" was known as "Verz" and "Steelswarm" was known as "Inverz". The "Inverz" came first. Due to the way archetype support works, all "Inverz" monsters implicitly became "Verz" monsters when the "Verz" support cards were released. Before "Verz" monsters came out in the OCG, the TCG decided to call the "Inverz" monsters "Steelswarm". Remember, all "Inverz" monsters are "Verz" monsters, meaning all "Steelswarm" monsters are also "Evilswarm" monsters. But they do not have "Evilswarm" in their English names. Both "Steelswarm" and "Evilswarm" have "Lswarm" in their English names. That's where the name is coming from. "Evilswarm" still exists and should redirect here - because its the same thing as "Lswarm", just written a different way due to the way the TCG named it.
- Do you not understand how translation works? The Japanese name of Number 92 can be interpreted in different ways. There is no official translated name. There's an official, written Japanese name, that's it. Do you know where I get the idea to use "Fake Body"? From the same dude that originally gave us "False Skeletal", that's where. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 21:50, September 28, 2012 (UTC)
- Following Cheesy's comment, do you remember "HERO" word? Stratos can searching any HERO monsters, reckless their looks; Evil, Masked, and ever Vision, and add it to the hand. That is identity way to this situation, "Lswarm" = "HERO", just without start word; such as "Stee-" or "Evi-", as they are treated in the same way as "Elemental", "Evil", etc. --iFredCat 22:12, September 28, 2012 (UTC)
- Hmmm. I suggest we should call this "lswarm" and make a category "Evilswarm" and there we put the explainations of how Konami messed up with this. ----SharkTenjo 01:36, September 29, 2012 (UTC)
Actual nature of the Evilswarm Virus
What are the sources we have to know the backstory of the Verz (Sorry, hate translation Evilswarm) cards?
I mean, judging from Verz Heliolope, more than just being a virus born from the bodies of fallen Inverz monsters (Infestation Infection), it can be said that it is an infection that carries the soul and will of the Inverz, thus any monster infected by it, became a slave to their will.
For example in Trial and Tribulation we see Gishki Noellia mourning who seems to be Gishki Natalia before becoming a spirit, all these while the Verz Infection lurks around her, with none other than Inverz Grez in the background, later the infection grows (Creeping Darkness) and she becomes half Evigishki half Verz (Evigishki Psychelone).
So, more than just being a self-defense mecanism in case of extermination, the Verz Virus is actually the Souls of the Inverz searching for new bodies in order to fulfill their objectives.
I'm sick and tired of having to edit the table each time Pollux is designated as Castor's counterpart. The table is supposed to show the lswarm monsters and their original counterparts. This isn't the case for Castor and Pollux because they're two different entities; in the Duel Terminal storyline, Castor is the brother of Pollux, who got corrupted by the lswarm virus.
- Edit: apologies if this doesn't improve the article for a bit. ChaosGallade (talk • contribs) 16:44, June 20, 2013 (UTC)
- I am also got tired of that <censor> - Pollux and Castor are indeed twin brothers (since they have same building, except for their helm) and are separate monsters. --iFredCat 16:51, June 20, 2013 (UTC)
Evilswarm Page Overhaul
So I was reading through this article recently and this article is very, very outdated. It doesn't seem like the bulk of this article has been edited in about three years. There are a lot of mentions of decks that simply don't exist anymore: Agents, Chaos Dragons, Naturia etc that should be replaced with more modern mentions (good examples are: Blue-Eyes, Kozmo, Metalfoes, D/D/D, Lightsworn etc). In addition, many of the cards and variants mentioned should just be completely scrapped: the Chaos Zone version of the deck doesn't work now that we only have 1 Dimensional Fissure and 1 Macro Cosmos, Golem and Coppelia are extremely terrible cards in the deck, and many of the recommended cards (Hraesvelg, Azzathoth, Salamandra, BLS, Kagetokage, Vylon Disigma, the Evolzars, D.D.R.) are just going to actively make the deck worse. This isn't a good thing for someone who wants to build the deck and finds all of this only to realize his deck is rather bad.
The weaknesses section also needs a serious clean-up. Some points:
-The deck has no serious weakness to Shadow-Imprisoning Mirror, in part because Castor's and Ophion's main effects cannot be negated by it and Infestation Pandemic will keep it from working.
-The effect negation point should be replaced with relevant cards (although Forbidden Chalice is fine) like Breakthrough Skill, Phantom Knights' Fog Blade, and Fiendish Chain.
-Ghost Ogre and Snow Rabbit needs to be mentioned. Chaining it to Ophion leaves the deck with very few options to get around it.
-Remove the mention of Luminious Soldier and Genex Ally Duradark. The former was never, ever, used and the latter hasn't been used for years.
-The Constellar point should be a general mention of Xyz decks that don't rely on higher level monsters, since there are many Rank 4 options that will out Ophion easily.
-Mystical Fairy Elfuria should be replaced by Flying "C", since it doesn't require protection and a well-placed Flying "C" will shut down this deck extremely easily.
-A mention needs to be made for this deck's weakness to monster removal: Kaijus utterly bone this deck and are an extremely common side deck staple, and the deck does not have any real method to regain hand advantage
There is probably more that can be said but I'm not familiar with wiki editing myself so I figured I'd at least bring it to the community's attention. This deck will always have some popularity thanks to Ophion's memeworthy effect so I think its pertinent that it be kept up to date.Admiral Emi (talk • contribs) 14:12, September 25, 2016 (UTC)