Talk: King

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Deletion

Looking at the format of their Japanese names; three kanji, consisting of adjectives (or genitive nouns) and the word king, followed by two katakana words, I'd say these cards were deliberately given similar characteristics.

Heavenly Punishment King, Black Highlander (天刑王ブラック・ハイランダー, Tenkeiō, Burakku Hairandā)
Ash King, Ash Gash (灰塵王アッシュ・ガッシュ, Kaijinō, Asshu Gasshu)
Heavenly Wolf King Blue Seirios (天狼王ブルー・セイリオス, Tenrō'ō Burū Seiriosu)
Phantom King Hyde Ride (幻影王ハイド・ライド, Geneiō Haido Raido)
Red Lotus King, Flame Crime (紅蓮王フレイム・クライム, Gurenō Fureimu Kuraimu)

Listing every other card with "King" (王) in their name as related is excessive. They have no connection to these cards. Even Yu-Gi-Oh! itself fits that description. Like with Yusei's "Warrior" monsters if any other cards do fit the three more precise naming mentioned at the top, but aren't used by Jack, it's probably a coincidence.

As for whether to delete this page or not. It might be sufficient to just put the information in the manga part of Jack Atlas' Decks instead. If we are to keep the page, at least get rid of all the cards listed as "related". -- Deltaneos (talk) 10:51, October 15, 2011 (UTC)

This is exactly what Forum:Archetype definition (again) was initially about, and it seems like it has been agreed that the related cards are unnecessary. The ~120 other cards with King in their name are not related to the series used by Jack at all. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 12:07, October 15, 2011 (UTC)

Archetype

And now it appears this is an archetype. "Ambition of the King" supports it. Once was have confirmation of the effect, we'll have to re-add all the monsters I removed a few weeks ago. Yay. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 21:00, April 20, 2012 (UTC)

Il assist. Is it basically anything with '王' in its Japanese name? TheScarecrow14 (talk • contribs) 21:11, April 20, 2012 (UTC)

Probably. We need to see a card image before we can confirm that 100% though, so we should hold off until then. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 21:21, April 20, 2012 (UTC)

Sure thing. TheScarecrow14 (talk • contribs) 21:35, April 20, 2012 (UTC)

http://neoarkcradle.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1659 This guy also translated them as supporting "King". He also edits stuff on here as well (I think he's called Legendary something). TheScarecrow14 (talk • contribs) 22:07, April 20, 2012 (UTC)

That topic gives the Japanese lore, which is what I needed from the card image. It does contain the string that could essentially be translated as "archsupport". However, it doesn't use "王" for "King"; it uses "王者". That may or may not narrow it down some for what needs to be added as a member. If you'd like to go look through cards and start adding, go right ahead. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 23:44, April 20, 2012 (UTC)

Checking through the topic again, multiple cards support "King" and all of them have "王". So yes, use that. Disregard what I said above. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 23:48, April 20, 2012 (UTC)

Well let the fun begin. In the King text, shall we add monsters whos TCG names don't have King in them such as Dark Highlander? TheScarecrow14 (talk • contribs) 00:06, April 21, 2012 (UTC)

He's already enlisted. --F redCat 00:10, April 21, 2012 (UTC)

I think you misunderstand. I mean in the card effects which support the King archetype since Dark Highlander doesn't have King in its TCG name, but it's still supported by the support cards due to the kanji. ALso Cheesedude, when entering '王', a large amount of the cards don't have King in their translated name or have other royal titles in their name such as Queen. TheScarecrow14 (talk • contribs) 00:33, April 21, 2012 (UTC)

I don't think so, no. A link to the archetype page should really suffice, IMO. As for some translations not using "King", there's nothing we can do there. If it has "王", its in the archetype. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 03:13, April 21, 2012 (UTC)

That should be:

"王"

Abyssal Kingshark

Alector, Sovereign of Birds

B. Dragon Jungle King

Barbaroid, the Ultimate Battle Machine

Bark of Dark Ruler

Beast King Barbaros

Beast Machine King Barbaros Ür

Beastking of the Swamps

Behemoth the King of All Animals

Big Eye

Blackland Fire Dragon

Brron, Mad King of Dark World

Champion's Vigilance

Curse of Royal

Dark Highlander

Dark King of the Abyss

Demise, King of Armageddon

Dewloren, Tiger King of the Ice Barrier

Diabolos, King of the Abyss

Dust Lord Ash Gash

Emperor of the Land and Sea

Endymion, the Master Magician

Garlandolf, King of Destruction

Gazelle the King of Mythical Beasts

Green Phantom King

Guardian of the Throne Room

Heavenly Wolf King Blue Seirios

Heavy Machinery King Doboku Zaku

Hieratic Dragon King of Atum

Invader of the Throne

King Pyron

King Tiger Wanghu

King of Destruction - Xexex

King of Yamimakai

King of the Swamp

Lich Lord, King of the Underworld

Machine King

Machine King - 3000 B.C.

Machine King Prototype

Ogre of the Black Shadow

Perfect Machine King

Phantom King Hyde Ride

Pharaoh's Treasure

Pharaonic Protector

Phoenix Beast Gairuda

Princess Curran

Princess Pikeru

Princess of Tsurugi

Prometheus, King of the Shadows

Protector of the Throne

Pumpking the King of Ghosts

Queen of Autumn Leaves

Queen of Fate - Eternia

Royal Magical Library

Royal Writ of Taxation

Sea King Dragon

Shinato, King of a Higher Plane

Skull Archfiend of Lightning

Superancient Deepsea King Coelacanth

Temple of the Kings

The Duelist Kingdom

The Emperor's Holiday

The Furious Sea King

The Glory of the King's Hand

Trap of the Imperial Tomb

Trial of the Princesses

Van'Dalgyon the Dark Dragon Lord

Vennominon the King of Poisonous Snakes

Voyage to the Kingdom

White Night Queen

Zeman the Ape King

Colorless, Chaos King of Dark World

Deep Sea King's Judgment

Deep Sea Kingdom - Sunken Kingdom

Fog Castle

Gengis Ghan - The Emperor Dragon

Infernalvania

Royal Sword

Rubble King

Ruklamba the Spirit King

Glory of the King's Opposite Hand

Tomato King: Red Red King

Wicked King of Yomi - Mictlan Coatl

Curse Fire King - Burst Cursed

Demon King Dragon Beelze

Domain of the Dark Ruler

Wandering King Wildwind

Red Lotus King, Flame Crime

Glory of the King's Opposite Hand

Morph King Stygi-Gel

~~I could bot this... probably...~~Done. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 00:35, April 21, 2012 (UTC)

Holy ****. What a clusterfuck. I knew there would be a lot of members, but damn... Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 03:13, April 21, 2012 (UTC)

I mentioned that I estimated that here would be ~120 "King" cards at Forum:Archetype definition (again) before. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 03:19, April 21, 2012 (UTC)

Arbitrary break

Yeah, it seems I was wrong. I could have sworn one of the cards just said "王", not "王者". Sorry, guys. I'm not batting 1000 this week, am I? Anyway, it was interesting to see what would be part of the archetype if it did exist, at the least. Right? Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 14:36, April 21, 2012 (UTC)

Don't to anything else with this yet, Falzar. I'm still not sure I have this 100% sorted out... Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 23:54, April 21, 2012 (UTC)

k. How are we going to split the "王" series and the "王者" archetype? We had a page for "王" series before; and so "王者" archetype will be a new page.

-Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 00:04, April 22, 2012 (UTC)

The suggested term so far is "Champion's", based on the fact that "王者" appears in the Japanese text for "Champion's Vigilance". Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 00:06, April 22, 2012 (UTC)

"王者"

The last 3 will be moved if it gets confirmed. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 00:28, April 22, 2012 (UTC)

Is the remaining confusion just over what we should call the archetype? The lores posted in the NeoArkCradle thread all support only "王者" cards, not "王". 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 17:40, April 22, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, that was the issue, which I have figured out the answer to several minutes later. So no, it's not an archetype. My apologies to everyone. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 18:51, April 22, 2012 (UTC)

Confirmation for removing archtypeN? -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 03:51, April 23, 2012 (UTC)

I think, unless I'm somehow misinterpreting Cheese's comments. What'll we be left with with "King" as just a series again? 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 06:20, April 23, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, go for it. The only cards left should be those listed at Jack Atlas' Decks#Manga. Again, I'm sorry, guys. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 12:06, April 23, 2012 (UTC)

I was going to go by anything that was added in these past few days, but that should be a much better list. If there's a card does not match and I'm not sure of I'll ask.

No worries, I already had a add parameter thing set out before this, so just telling to add it was easy. I also had one for removing it.

-Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 12:17, April 23, 2012 (UTC)

List for added "Kings" in past few days vs. List of "Kings" at Jack Atlas' Decks#Manga:

Unique in List 2:

Bark of Dark Ruler

Curse Fire King - Burst Cursed

King of the Swamp

King's Hurricane

Royal Decree

AKA, those are the ones that were added recently, but I did not remove them. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 12:27, April 23, 2012 (UTC)

"Bark", "Swamp" and "Decree" probably shouldn't be there. "Champion's Viginlance" and the Traps that Jack used should be in the series though. Even if "王" isn't an archetype, those cards do fit the theme an roughly translate to "Ruler" or "King". Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 12:32, April 23, 2012 (UTC)

Done. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 12:50, April 23, 2012 (UTC)

「王者」 and 「王」

Both "Majesty of the King" and "Pulse of the King" supports cards with 「王者」, so this is an archetype. However, none of Jack's Kings have this in their names, only 「王」. So, the conclusion is: all cards used by Jack with 「王」 is a member of the King series (this include "Ambition of the King", "Majesty of the King", "Pulse of the King" and any other Spell/Trap used by him), and all cards with 「王者」 are part of the archetype 王者 (I don't know the correct translation). The problem is: what cards have 「王者」 in their names? The closest ones I've found are: "Queen's Double", "Protector of the Throne" and "Invader of the Throne"... Can somebody confirm in the Manga if those card lores are correct? --Missign0 (talk • contribs) 15:04, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

Look above. The only card other the the three Spells/Traps that Jack used that qualifies is "Champion's Vigilance". As for the translation, that's where the confusion lies. "King" or "Ruler" are perfectly serviceable translations for both. The best thing we could do in my opinion is call the archetype page "Champion's" and rename Jack's Spells/Traps to use that, retaining the original names in the "trans' parameter. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 16:40, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

I didn't read that part, sorry. That's make sense, since 「王者」 was translated as "Champion's" it should be the name of the archetype, but that's the only card in the TCG with 「王者」?. So, the Kings don't have support, they are still a series. --Missign0 (talk • contribs) 20:42, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

Right, "King" (as this page defines it) is a series, not an archetype. "Champion's" (which could also be called "King") is an archetype. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 00:43, May 10, 2012 (UTC)

Alright, done. I had honestly assumed someone else had already done it, which was why it took me so long. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 17:01, May 10, 2012 (UTC)

English name=

With the exception of "Dark Highlander", every "King" monster has "Lord" in their name in the TCG. Not saying that it should be changed to "Lord", of course, just wondering if this should be noted. Sanokal K-T (talk • contribs) 20:33, November 6, 2013 (UTC)

Talk: King

Deletion

Archetype

Arbitrary break

「王 者」 and 「王」

English name=

「王者」 and 「王」