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Revision as of 14:50, 28 March 2017
This is the talk page for discussing the page, King. | |
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Deletion
Looking at the format of their Japanese names; three kanji, consisting of adjectives (or genitive nouns) and the word king, followed by two katakana words, I'd say these cards were deliberately given similar characteristics.
- Heavenly Punishment King, Black Highlander (天刑王 ブラック・ハイランダー, Tenkeiō, Burakku Hairandā)
- Ash King, Ash Gash (灰塵王 アッシュ・ガッシュ, Kaijinō, Asshu Gasshu)
- Heavenly Wolf King Blue Seirios (天狼王 ブルー・セイリオス, Tenrō'ō Burū Seiriosu)
- Phantom King Hyde Ride (幻影王 ハイド・ライド, Geneiō Haido Raido)
- Red Lotus King, Flame Crime (紅蓮王 フレイム・クライム, Gurenō Fureimu Kuraimu)
Listing every other card with "King" (王) in their name as related is excessive. They have no connection to these cards. Even Yu-Gi-Oh! itself fits that description. Like with Yusei's "Warrior" monsters if any other cards do fit the three more precise naming mentioned at the top, but aren't used by Jack, it's probably a coincidence.
As for whether to delete this page or not. It might be sufficient to just put the information in the manga part of Jack Atlas' Decks instead. If we are to keep the page, at least get rid of all the cards listed as "related". -- Deltaneos (talk) 10:51, October 15, 2011 (UTC)
- This is exactly what Forum:Archetype definition (again) was initially about, and it seems like it has been agreed that the related cards are unnecessary. The ~120 other cards with King in their name are not related to the series used by Jack at all. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 12:07, October 15, 2011 (UTC)
Archetype
And now it appears this is an archetype. "Ambition of the King" supports it. Once was have confirmation of the effect, we'll have to re-add all the monsters I removed a few weeks ago. Yay. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 21:00, April 20, 2012 (UTC)
- Il assist. Is it basically anything with '王' in its Japanese name? TheScarecrow14 (talk • contribs) 21:11, April 20, 2012 (UTC)
- Probably. We need to see a card image before we can confirm that 100% though, so we should hold off until then. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 21:21, April 20, 2012 (UTC)
- Sure thing. TheScarecrow14 (talk • contribs) 21:35, April 20, 2012 (UTC)
- http://neoarkcradle.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1659 This guy also translated them as supporting "King". He also edits stuff on here as well (I think he's called Legendary something). TheScarecrow14 (talk • contribs) 22:07, April 20, 2012 (UTC)
- Sure thing. TheScarecrow14 (talk • contribs) 21:35, April 20, 2012 (UTC)
- Probably. We need to see a card image before we can confirm that 100% though, so we should hold off until then. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 21:21, April 20, 2012 (UTC)
- That topic gives the Japanese lore, which is what I needed from the card image. It does contain the string that could essentially be translated as "archsupport". However, it doesn't use "王" for "King"; it uses "王者". That may or may not narrow it down some for what needs to be added as a member. If you'd like to go look through cards and start adding, go right ahead. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 23:44, April 20, 2012 (UTC)
- Checking through the topic again, multiple cards support "King" and all of them have "王". So yes, use that. Disregard what I said above. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 23:48, April 20, 2012 (UTC)
- Well let the fun begin. In the King text, shall we add monsters whos TCG names don't have King in them such as Dark Highlander? TheScarecrow14 (talk • contribs) 00:06, April 21, 2012 (UTC)
- I think you misunderstand. I mean in the card effects which support the King archetype since Dark Highlander doesn't have King in its TCG name, but it's still supported by the support cards due to the kanji. ALso Cheesedude, when entering '王', a large amount of the cards don't have King in their translated name or have other royal titles in their name such as Queen. TheScarecrow14 (talk • contribs) 00:33, April 21, 2012 (UTC)
- I don't think so, no. A link to the archetype page should really suffice, IMO. As for some translations not using "King", there's nothing we can do there. If it has "王", its in the archetype. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 03:13, April 21, 2012 (UTC)
- That should be:
- "王"
- Abyssal Kingshark
- Alector, Sovereign of Birds
- Allure Queen LV3
- Allure Queen LV5
- Allure Queen LV7
- Amazoness Queen
- B. Dragon Jungle King
- Barbaroid, the Ultimate Battle Machine
- Bark of Dark Ruler
- Beast King Barbaros
- Beast Machine King Barbaros Ür
- Beastking of the Swamps
- Behemoth the King of All Animals
- Big Eye
- Blackland Fire Dragon
- Brron, Mad King of Dark World
- Champion's Vigilance
- Curse of Royal
- Dark Highlander
- Dark King of the Abyss
- Dark Lucius LV4
- Dark Lucius LV6
- Dark Lucius LV8
- Dark Ruler Ha Des
- Demise, King of Armageddon
- Dewloren, Tiger King of the Ice Barrier
- Diabolos, King of the Abyss
- Dust Lord Ash Gash
- Emperor of the Land and Sea
- Endymion, the Master Magician
- Enlightenment
- Fairy King Alverd
- Fairy King Truesdale
- Fog King
- Fushioh Richie
- Garlandolf, King of Destruction
- Gazelle the King of Mythical Beasts
- Green Phantom King
- Guardian of the Throne Room
- Heavenly Wolf King Blue Seirios
- Heavy Machinery King Doboku Zaku
- Hieratic Dragon King of Atum
- Ice Queen
- Imperial Iron Wall
- Imperial Order
- Insect Queen
- Invader of the Throne
- King Pyron
- King Tiger Wanghu
- King of Destruction - Xexex
- King of Yamimakai
- King of the Swamp
- Lich Lord, King of the Underworld
- Machine King
- Machine King - 3000 B.C.
- Machine King Prototype
- Machine Lord Ür
- Memory Crush King
- Musician King
- Necrovalley
- Ogre of the Black Shadow
- Perfect Machine King
- Phantom King Hyde Ride
- Pharaoh's Treasure
- Pharaonic Protector
- Phoenix Beast Gairuda
- Princess Curran
- Princess Pikeru
- Princess of Tsurugi
- Prometheus, King of the Shadows
- Protector of the Throne
- Pumpking the King of Ghosts
- Queen of Autumn Leaves
- Queen of Fate - Eternia
- Queen's Bodyguard
- Queen's Double
- Queen's Pawn
- Revived King Ha Des
- Royal Command
- Royal Decree
- Royal Keeper
- Royal Magical Library
- Royal Oppression
- Royal Prison
- Royal Surrender
- Royal Tribute
- Royal Writ of Taxation
- Sea King Dragon
- Shinato, King of a Higher Plane
- Skull Archfiend of Lightning
- Superancient Deepsea King Coelacanth
- Temple of the Kings
- The Duelist Kingdom
- The Emperor's Holiday
- The Furious Sea King
- The Glory of the King's Hand
- Trap of the Imperial Tomb
- Trial of the Princesses
- Van'Dalgyon the Dark Dragon Lord
- Vennominon the King of Poisonous Snakes
- Voyage to the Kingdom
- White Night Queen
- Zeman the Ape King
- Colorless, Chaos King of Dark World
- Deep Sea King's Judgment
- Deep Sea Kingdom - Sunken Kingdom
- Fog Castle
- Gengis Ghan - The Emperor Dragon
- Infernalvania
- Royal Sword
- Rubble King
- Ruklamba the Spirit King
- The Glory of the King's Opposite Hand
- Tomato King: Red Red King
- Wicked King of Yomi - Mictlan Coatl
- Curse Fire King - Burst Cursed
- Demon King Dragon Beelze
- Domain of the Dark Ruler
- Wandering King Wildwind
- King's Hurricane
- Magic King Moon Star
- Majesty of the King
- Pulse of the King
- Red Lotus King, Flame Crime
- The Glory of the King's Opposite Hand
- Transformation Lord Hell Gel
I could bot this... probably...Done. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 00:35, April 21, 2012 (UTC)
- Holy ****. What a clusterfuck. I knew there would be a lot of members, but damn... Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 03:13, April 21, 2012 (UTC)
- I mentioned that I estimated that here would be ~120 "King" cards at Forum:Archetype definition (again) before. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 03:19, April 21, 2012 (UTC)
Arbitrary break
- Yeah, it seems I was wrong. I could have sworn one of the cards just said "王", not "王者". Sorry, guys. I'm not batting 1000 this week, am I? Anyway, it was interesting to see what would be part of the archetype if it did exist, at the least. Right? Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 14:36, April 21, 2012 (UTC)
- Don't to anything else with this yet, Falzar. I'm still not sure I have this 100% sorted out... Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 23:54, April 21, 2012 (UTC)
- k. How are we going to split the "王" series and the "王者" archetype? We had a page for "王" series before; and so "王者" archetype will be a new page.
- -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 00:04, April 22, 2012 (UTC)
- The suggested term so far is "Champion's", based on the fact that "王者" appears in the Japanese text for "Champion's Vigilance". Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 00:06, April 22, 2012 (UTC)
- "王者"
- Champion's Vigilance
- King's Hurricane
- Majesty of the King
- Pulse of the King
- The last 3 will be moved if it gets confirmed. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 00:28, April 22, 2012 (UTC)
- Is the remaining confusion just over what we should call the archetype? The lores posted in the NeoArkCradle thread all support only "王者" cards, not "王". 「ディノ奴千?!」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 17:40, April 22, 2012 (UTC)
- Yes, that was the issue, which I have figured out the answer to several minutes later. So no, it's not an archetype. My apologies to everyone. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 18:51, April 22, 2012 (UTC)
- Confirmation for removing archtypeN? -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 03:51, April 23, 2012 (UTC)
- I think, unless I'm somehow misinterpreting Cheese's comments. What'll we be left with with "King" as just a series again? 「ディノ奴千?!」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 06:20, April 23, 2012 (UTC)
- Yes, go for it. The only cards left should be those listed at Jack Atlas' Decks#Manga. Again, I'm sorry, guys. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 12:06, April 23, 2012 (UTC)
- I was going to go by anything that was added in these past few days, but that should be a much better list. If there's a card does not match and I'm not sure of I'll ask.
- No worries, I already had a add parameter thing set out before this, so just telling to add it was easy. I also had one for removing it.
- -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 12:17, April 23, 2012 (UTC)
- List for added "Kings" in past few days vs. List of "Kings" at Jack Atlas' Decks#Manga:
- Unique in List 2:
- Bark of Dark Ruler
- Curse Fire King - Burst Cursed
- King of the Swamp
- King's Hurricane
- Royal Decree
- AKA, those are the ones that were added recently, but I did not remove them. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 12:27, April 23, 2012 (UTC)
- "Bark", "Swamp" and "Decree" probably shouldn't be there. "Champion's Viginlance" and the Traps that Jack used should be in the series though. Even if "王" isn't an archetype, those cards do fit the theme an roughly translate to "Ruler" or "King". Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 12:32, April 23, 2012 (UTC)
- Done. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 12:50, April 23, 2012 (UTC)
「王 者」 and 「王」
Both "Majesty of the King" and "Pulse of the King" supports cards with 「王 者」, so this is an archetype. However, none of Jack's Kings have this in their names, only 「王」. So, the conclusion is: all cards used by Jack with 「王」 is a member of the King series (this include "Ambition of the King", "Majesty of the King", "Pulse of the King" and any other Spell/Trap used by him), and all cards with 「王 者」 are part of the archetype 王 者 (I don't know the correct translation). The problem is: what cards have 「王 者」 in their names? The closest ones I've found are: "Queen's Double", "Protector of the Throne" and "Invader of the Throne"... Can somebody confirm in the Manga if those card lores are correct? --Missign0 (talk • contribs) 15:04, May 9, 2012 (UTC)
- Look above. The only card other the the three Spells/Traps that Jack used that qualifies is "Champion's Vigilance". As for the translation, that's where the confusion lies. "King" or "Ruler" are perfectly serviceable translations for both. The best thing we could do in my opinion is call the archetype page "Champion's" and rename Jack's Spells/Traps to use that, retaining the original names in the "trans' parameter. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 16:40, May 9, 2012 (UTC)
- Right, "King" (as this page defines it) is a series, not an archetype. "Champion's" (which could also be called "King") is an archetype. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 00:43, May 10, 2012 (UTC)
- Alright, done. I had honestly assumed someone else had already done it, which was why it took me so long. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 17:01, May 10, 2012 (UTC)
English name=
With the exception of "Dark Highlander", every "King" monster has "Lord" in their name in the TCG. Not saying that it should be changed to "Lord", of course, just wondering if this should be noted. Sanokal K-T (talk • contribs) 20:33, November 6, 2013 (UTC)