When did the rulings on A-counters change? I thought it was still "A-counters don't weaken opposing monsters if no cards that mention that effect are on the field" (like Alien Warrior). Speedball 02:38, October 5, 2009 (UTC)
I recently heard an idea that aliens might be good enough competitively to make it to tier one. Its probably not true, but it would be cool if it was, as Aliens are one of my favorite archetypes.LightMasterJ 18:00, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
question about attributes
I have added attributes to the list but they have been deleted, my question is why just show some of the attributes? I get showing some of them make it easier to see when going through playing styles but when only some are listed, it gets confusing, also by listing attributes you can see how cards could match up for combos outside of what is on the suggested decklist. So just LIGHT and DARK attributes, or should we include ALL the attributes? - Soundeffex 23:15, March 28, 2010 (UTC)
- The reason I removed them was because there is no clear reason already shown for that to be important. Chaos Sorcerer needs LIGHT and DARK monsters. No other Attribute is needed for this deck so listing that Alien Mars has FIRE doesn't help the page much but it makes blocks of text harder to read. --LordGeovanni 01:46, March 29, 2010 (UTC)
- To throw one more idea as to why to put out all attributes is the fact that this is not really an actual deck, many people will use the guide on the deck page, however when it comes down to it they tend to change and modify, and begin reworking it to fit their needs. But I will say that if they got to that point they will have the cards in front of them so they would not need the page to show attributes. I originally put it up to look uniform and so that it had a set guideline, and the second time so that you would notice my question. Thank you for responding so quickly. - Mecha Bunny Guy 19:46, March 29, 2010 (UTC) (Still Soundeffex just changed the signature)
AFTERTHOUGHT: However I would ask that Shocktrooper has it's DEF points put up and left alone, Just having the ATK points up is like only writing half a story, and it is more tactical to know both ATK and DEF points when dealing with no effect monsters. - Mecha Bunny Guy 19:49, March 29, 2010 (UTC)
P.P.S. Got rid of the staple card text after chaos magician, the notice above the decklist specifically says do not add staple cards.
I already left a message for you on your talk page. I'll say it again.
Can you stop being a busybody? There's no reason for you to separate the effects into different categories. Only 2 monsters have effects that are different to the standard A-Counter effects, and no other page lists all of the stats of cards that you should use in the decks. Why do you believe Aliens are so special that they deserve to have a different page layout?
You just scream vandalism rather than arguing your case like a normal person. Instead of crying, and going to mods like a b***h, why don't you explain why you feel your edits are worth being put on the page?--YamiWheeler 19:42, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
About the card list
The () are there for two main reasons:
- 1 - To show what use a card can be in the deck.
- 2 - To explain why a user entered a card into the list.
The second reason is why I started this idea. The Frog page had constant edits over Junk Synchron because people couldn't understand why it was there. Now, since I typed out all the () on the Frog page, there have only been benificial additions to the Frog page. I have tried this with the Alien page and you can see the results.
Now the reason why the () are so long is because each part of the () can be viewed as important. Please tell me below or on my talk page if this is still unclear. --LordGeovanni 19:43, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
- What you put in the brackets is just the basic effect of the monster. Why do you need to do that when people can click, see the card and look at the effect for themselves? You aren't giving them any tips. You're just stating the obvious.
"(LVL1, LIGHT-Attribute, Tuner, Can Special Summon a one LVL 4 or lower "Alien" monster upon Normal Summon - destroyed upon End Phase)"
The latter description shows you how you can actually USE the card, rather than obviously stating what it does. If people are reverting your edits on any page, you don't USE the page to justify why the tip is there, you should say so in the edit Summary rather than screaming "VANDALISM!!" Also, no other Sub-Type page (Lightsworns, Blackwings) states the Level, Attribute, etc. next to the cards that you use in the Deck. It is unnecessary, because that's what the Fing wiki is for!--YamiWheeler 19:49, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
- Okay, just each part as you asked:
- I put that because people edit the page without knowing why the cards are there sometimes. See Junk Synchron above.
- The LVL is there to help add up what you would need for a Synchro Summon. Can you easily tell that Alien Dog can help you pull out Armory Arm with Alien Ammonite?
- The Attribute is useful for the reason stated directly above the list. LIGHT- and DARK-type are needed for Chaos Sorcerer. They are being "highlighted" to show how easily he would benefit this deck.
- Your tip, "Needed for Cosmic Fortress Gol'Gar. Can also make a instant Catastor.", is helpful. Yes, however, how is Alien Ammonite an instant Catastor? You do not explain in your tip and that is why the frog page was a mess of new tips and rewrites with people fighting over which cards can be allowed on the page. See Junk Synchron above.
- I DO try to use the comment bar to explain, people just choose to ignore me or misunderstand what I mean and just keep removing what I replace.
- Frogs - another page that lists similar. LVL is usually 2 and type is WATER due to the limits of Wetlands. Synchro is also not as common in that deck so the LVL is excluded. Synchro is needed in this deck to give it enough edge to still be able to compete against common decks for todays Meta.
As always, please ask any other questions you have. --LordGeovanni 20:05, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
- How do I know that Alien Dog can help you pull out Armory Arm with Alien Ammonite? Well, I click the PAGE OF ALIEN DOG AND ALIEN AMMONITE AND NOTICE THAT AMMONITE'S EFFECT LETS ME SUMMON DOG. And that Dog happens to be a Level 3 monster. You also already stated at the top of the page that the monsters you selected were ONLY of the LIGHT and DARK Attribute, so you don't need to put the Attributes a second time. Also, maybe people don't want to use Chaos Sorcerer? Why are you monopolizing the Deck choices and acting like they HAVE to? Also, why are you assuming that people can't count? A Level 1 Tuner + a Level 3 non-Tuner = a Level 4 Synchro. They don't NEED you to tell them that. It is unnecessary. Completely. You remove useful tips and just put the obvious effect. So far, there's no reason why I shouldn't continuously revert your edits until you shut up, and reverse the Frog edits too.--YamiWheeler 20:11, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
- Please remain calm. We are discussing this page with the hope of reaching a compromise. As before, each mention is below seperately:
- Yes, Click on Alien Dog and then see that LVL. Then hit the back button. Then click on Alien Ammonite and then see that LVL. Then hit the back button. Then click on Cosmic Fortress Gol'Gar and then see that LVL. Then add them up and see if they match. OR just look at the page I supplied.
- For example, Alien Mars is a FIRE-Type, not a LIGHT- or DARK-Type.
- Not everyone may want to use Chaos Sorcerer. True, however, the information is there for them to consider.
- I work on these pages because I actually USE these Archetype Decks.
- People cannot count because you keep removing the numbers that they need to count. Leave them there and people wouldn't have a problem with that.
- Reversing the edits will just cause me to make more edits. Talking will come to a compromise.
--LordGeovanni 20:22, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
- Lol. I'm perfectly calm. I just feel the need to capitalize because you're making such a ridiculous argument. Why do you think that just because YOU use Archetypes, they're special enough to be different to all the other pages other people have set up on Wikia without any complaint? Such as Lightsworn or Blackwings? I've never come across anyone on those pages, before you came along, deciding that the format was bad and we need to put the LVL, Attribute, Tuner status, etc. next to the cards that are considered for the Deck. Did anyone come to you and ask you to change them? You're acting like you're making revolutionary edits, when you're only really giving people an excuse to be lazy and tacky on pages that no one really even cares about.--YamiWheeler 20:30, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
- Why do you assume people are idiots? --Reimu_H, Touhou fanboy 20:26, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
- @Reimu_H Are you talking to me? Or YamiWheeler? I do not think, nor have I said anywhere, that people are idiots. I am just supplying the information on ne page to be easier for others. --LordGeovanni 20:38, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
- @YamiWheeler The Archetypes are not any more "special" than any other. I just work on those pages because I actually use those decks. It would be ignorant and rude to think I can use a deck I have never even looked into closely. The reason noone else has put "the LVL, Attribute, Tuner status, etc. next to the cards" is because I am the first to have done that. Noone asked me to change them, as you said before this is a wikia and I choose to edit those pages. Many people do not need a reason to be lazy. And obviously you care or you still wouldn't be here. --LordGeovanni 20:38, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
- LOL. So you do actually believe you're making some sort of revolutionary edit? No, I'm sure other people have tried before. Probably done it better than you, too. But it was reverted because it was unnecessary. And the thing is, with your last statement, is that, you're directly destroying the layout of the pages that you FEEL like working on, and essentially making the site inconsistent. You change some pages into that mess you call useful, and then leave the others? I'll tell you something - I really couldn't give a toss about Frogs, Aliens, Worms, Cybers, Apes or any other useless Archetype you want to destroy. What annoys the hell out of me is seeing nicely laid out pages - pages that people have spent time crafting to look good, professional and acceptable, RUINED, because someone decides that they're too lazy to do the simplest thing in the world. That's why I'm still here.--YamiWheeler 20:44, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
- Okay, just remember that I am on everyday. And this discussion will probably be discussed for quite a time because you are not giving any ideas for a compromise. --LordGeovanni 20:49, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
- I'm sure you are on every day. It'd be too much work to actually walk outside, or! Twist a door handle. I don't compromise with idiocy, sorry.--YamiWheeler 20:51, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
Now that you got the page locked, what is next? Can we try to compromise? --LordGeovanni 20:57, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
- Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't notice it was locked. For a moment, I thought you saw sense. My bad. No, actually, I don't care if it's locked, because your ridiculous edits aren't there. Have fun trying to get it unlocked, though.--YamiWheeler 20:58, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
- The page protection isn't to force to page onto either person's revision. It's to stop the constant reverting. The protection should only be temporarily in place until the community can agree on something. If you want your revision to stay, please discuss it politely. If you have good enough points in favour of your version, you shouldn't need to resort to making personal attacks against the other person. -- Deltaneos (talk) 21:19, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
The mods did something and protected the page from badly-formatted walls of text. --Reimu_H, Touhou fanboy 21:01, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
It will be replaced as soon as the lock is lifted. --LordGeovanni 21:03, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
- Aw, I feel bad for you. You were having so much fun too. But hear that mods? Better not lift it for a whiiiiile.--YamiWheeler 21:04, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
- Should be, LoveWheeler. --FredCat100 21:08, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
- Doesn't stop the discussion. We can still compromise. However, please grow up first. --LordGeovanni 21:08, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
- I agreed with Lord... Yami-Monkey and Reimu should stop stare at each other and be mature with what we had done on this site. We should have to work together as cooperate, not work like we are on different line. --FredCat100 21:10, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
- Ohnoes, the great friend steps in with the lamest come back in the history of the world - EVEN FOR a Yu-Gi-Oh! Wikia. And of course you agree with him. Do you even have your own opinions anyway? You haven't gotten involved since now so why don't you keep your nose out of it.
- Doesn't stop the discussion. We can still compromise. However, please grow up first. --LordGeovanni 21:08, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
And Geovanni, you're one to talk when you get your friend to try to bail you out with stupid insults. Why don't you put the leash back on? And not only that, who are you to tell me to grow up when you find arguing on an internet site "fun"? Why don't you get a life before talking to me.--YamiWheeler 21:12, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
- Then why are you making those forum horrible with names, maybe some viewers refuse to like to see your words. As some old men once said, "More information you obtain, more understand you can." As it can help very much, thanks to Lord's helps, he done his job better than you and Reimu. So it's time for you to get leach on your own neck and walk yourself. --FredCat100 21:16, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
- I didn't ask him to join this discussion, nor do I have the right to demand he join or stay out of this discussion. If he stays, it is his choice. You are just upset that it no longer is a 2v1 that you are losing. Just feel better that it now is a 2v2 you are losing. I also would like to point out that I find Debating fun so yeah, anywhere, even on the internet, debating is fun. My life is meant for ruining your. :P --LordGeovanni 21:18, April 28, 2010 (UTC) (willing to compromise yet?)
- I'm sorry, but this above post actually has me in hysterics. You've already lost. Your edits are gone. So, I guess I've just ruined 'your' pathetic little life, and I'm going to continue by exiting out of this debate, since you enjoy it so much. I'm done. Goodbye.--YamiWheeler 21:24, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
- Everyone, calm down a little. Take some time out, think about it a bit and think about the other side's arguments. I locked the page so that you can civilly sort things out over here, rather than by Edit warring.
- Also, don't insult each other. You're supposed to debate things civilly. If you can't, then drop the issue.
- --Deus Ex Machina (Talk) 21:19, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
I am willing to compromise. I am just waiting to hear their side and what they think should be done to merge the two ideas. I do however appreciate you locking the page. --LordGeovanni 21:23, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
I are actualy against the (), but are willing to compromise just to STOP THE FIGHTING. So please, find out a way to compromise, because you can fight in a millenium without to stop, and it is annoying. I think the page is good as it is now, so stop the ********************** fighting and ACCEPT that it doesn't matter. Ancientgearking 06:25, April 29, 2010 (UTC)
When we can edit...
I think we (Me, YamiWheeler, LordGeovanni, Reimu_H and all other people that care) should plan what to do when we can edit the page again. YamiWheeler and Riemu_H (can I call you Yami and Riemu?) are against the "()" and the "Frog"-system things, but LordGeovanni (can I call you Geo?) is for the "()" but are willing to compromisse to the "Frog"-system. I were from the begining against the "()", but since Geo was able to compromisse, I'm for shorter "()", the "Frog"system and anything that everyone else agree with. So I think that we all should find a way that everyone think is all right and agree with, so stop fight and find out something useful. Ancientgearking 18:23, May 2, 2010 (UTC)
- Ancientgearking, you may call me by anything nonoffensive so as long as I understand you are refering to me. I do heavily support the idea of leaving the information currently in the ()s on the page. There have been far too many people misunderstanding why some cards are in different decks. For example, why would Reverse Trap be in a Blackwings deck? Without the (), another may reverse that edit without understanding the origional reasoning of the person who put it there. In my example, the user would have placed Reverse Trap in the deck with the idea of using it on Black-Winged Dragon when the opponent attacks it while it haas counters on it through its effect. A problem occured and was unable to be resolved when YamiWheeler and Reimu_H were unwilling to accept a compromise. Shortly after the disagreement between YamiWheeler's and Reimu_H's side and FredCat100's and my own side, another user I know by the name of Falzar FZ took a look at the Frog page where I had implemented the same system of adding ()s to follow the cards on the recommended list. He has since edited a table to the list to better organize the information on the Frogs page. This idea has been viewed by me as more efficient than I had placed there prior and I wish to keep the Frogs page as Falzar FZ has edited. Since the Frog page looks better through the idea of placing a table, I have already written out the source of the Alien page to update it to the same idea. Any further ways to update the page will of course be requested to come forward. Any such ideas brought forward can be discussed so everyone is pleased with the results. As a note to YamiWheeler and Reimu_H, it is not that I must get my way, only that all the ideas be placed together in a way that the page is more helpful as the page is updated. This is how a wikia florished through the attention of its users. The information I placed on the Frogs page and the Alien page were helpful to many people. As such, it shouldn't be removed. As a final thought, where else should a user be able to see an overview of the Alien cards but on the Alien page? --LordGeovanni 20:40, May 2, 2010 (UTC)