Forum:So let's try fixing these things

So I was thinking, the reason these cards are banned is because Konami wasn't thinking to straight when they published them, and didn't consider how useful the card effects could be. Some of these cards could be fixed by making a few minor changes.

So copypasta from the reasons forum with my suggested changes.

Proposed Changes

Chaos Emperor Dragon - Envoy of the End - His effect comboed with monsters that can put things back on the field (like Sangan) make it broken. and he can be special summoned really easily. so how about we make it so he negates the effect of all other monsters destroyed this way. Also maybe have the cost of using the effect Higher, Like 3000 life points.

Cyber Jar I can't see a way to fix this card without fundamentally changing its abilities.

The rest of the cards picked up are sent to the Graveyard? Maybe?Ja1lbreakr0cks (talk • contribs) 02:42, March 29, 2012 (UTC)

Actually how about tacking on Morphing jar's effect of discarding all cards in your hand first? Or that the number of cards in your hand must equal those in your opponents?ZGWolf (talk • contribs) 00:05, April 3, 2012 (UTC)

Cyber-Stein Monster special summoned by this effect can not attack this turn, be used for synchro material, and has it's effect negated. Maybe that will Help?

Dark Magician of Chaos- effect should only happen when normal summoned?

Dark Strike Fighter - I'm not familiar enough with this card to straighten it out.

Destiny HERO - Disk Commander - Most cards with this kind of effect are removed from play after using it once?

Fiber Jar - Reset button is unfixable. make both players lifepoints 8000 to complete the image.

Fishborg Blaster - See Fishborg Launcher Konami basically replaced it.

Glow-Up Bulb - meh it could come back on its own.

Goyo Guardian - Really the best balance for this card would be to nerf it's attack.

Magical Scientist - negate the effect of monsters summoned by this card? throw in once per turn to prevent XYZ spam.

Magician of Faith - instead of returning to the hand, how about the top of your deck?

Makyura the Destructor - I don't think this can be fixed without fundamentally changing his ability.

Mind Master - Effect reminds me of Summoner of illusions, but it is a tuner so a quick Sychro is probably the purpose. Monster summoned can not be used as synchro material would balance it, but might ruin the point of having it :/

Rescue Cat - probably fundamentally broken.

Sinister Serpent - I originally misread this cards effect. I read it as if a sinister serpent exist in your graveyard, you can return this sinister serpent (on the field) to your hand. Worhless effect that way, but I don't see a way to fix this.

Spore - to quote a pro, see glow-up bulb.

Substitoad - Special summoning from deck is nasty, change it to sending a card to your hand. Also drop the pointless frog the jam limitation.

Thousand-Eyes Restrict - No way to fix without fundamentally changing it's ability. Maybe if you made summoning it VERY restricted by requireing exact material, cannot be Special Summoned in other ways. And make it a level 10 to eliminate its low level priviledge.

Tribe-Infecting Virus - when the host dies doesn't the virus go too? Changes it into a more expensive Ragieki.

Trishula, Dragon of the Ice Barrier - once per duel.

Tsukuyomi - No way to balance without fundamental changes. Wouldn't help to drop the spirit return to hand effect because then you could still combo with P. soldier or hane hane.

Victory Dragon - The monsters used for tribute can not have been special summoned. Easy fix.

Witch of the Black Forest - Meh, No idea. It's supposed to summon a weaker monster, so limiting level might help.

Yata-Garasu your opponent has no cards, you have Yata, you win. How about making it so the opponent can negate effect by revealing top card? or why not changing it to your opponent draws in the end phase?

Brain Control THis was ment to be the "Balanced" version of change of heart. Crank it up to Half your lp, or better yet 5000.

Butterfly Dagger - Elma Change it to destroyed by battle.

Card of Safe Return-Once per turn.

Temple of the Kings- Doh, poor Serket. Anyway, fix by dropping the trap effect or (Maybe)once per turn. The special summon is what is supposed to be really valuable.

Change of Heart - activate only in a losing situation? lower lp, no monsters, ect.

Cold Wave - Fundamentally broken?

Confiscation - How about selecting a card at random?

Delinquent Duo - Fundamentally broken

Dimension Fusion - What I think this card is supposed to mean is that the Different Dimension that the DD monsters come from is merging with our dimension. Thus let's change it to only monsters removed by effects of a DD monster, or DD spell card.

Giant Trunade - Indirectly broken. destroying your cards but sending your opponents back to hand might fix it.

Graceful Charity - Discard 2 then draw three?

They should either make it discard for cost, or banish 2 cards from the hand, because Dark Worlds can exploit this card as isJa1lbreakr0cks (talk • contribs) 02:44, March 29, 2012 (UTC)

Harpie's Feather Duster - If Gryphon's Feather Duster and other specific counter traps were much better, this might come back.

Last Will - card canot be used for sychro summon, and the effect is negated.

Mass Driver - Counter system to limit number of uses. "breaks" after 5 shots.

Metamorphosis - needs a way to prevent easily summoned cards like metal reflect slime from using this card. It is indirectly broken.

Summoner of Illusions style effect would be good, destroy/banish the monster summoned with metamorphosis at the end of the turn. The only way it could get worse is if metamorphosis said the special summon was treated as a fusion summon (that would be broken as hell)Ja1lbreakr0cks (talk • contribs) 02:46, March 29, 2012 (UTC)

actually how about only normal monsters can use this effect.

Mirage of Nightmare - This card can not be destroyed by card effects that the owner of this card triggers. It can get really double edged itself if you attempt to abuse it.

Painful Choice - put the cards on the bottom of the deck? remove them from play? OH I got it. Put them in your opponents graveyard. XD The purpose was making your opponent pick the lesser of 5 evils, so removing the advantage of sending to the grave is key.

You can't put your cards in your opponent's graveyard, but the remove from play idea is good. Or you could make it shuffle back into the deck, but then that would help with cards like Guardian EatosJa1lbreakr0cks (talk • contribs) 02:50, March 29, 2012 (UTC)

Why not make them work something like Parasite Paracide shuffled face up in either your deck or the opponents then destroy/banish when drawn. ZGWolf (talk • contribs) 00:05, April 3, 2012 (UTC)

Pot of Greed - 1 card, like jar of greed. This could happen because Spirit of the Pot of Greed and Avatar of The Pot will keep it useful.

Premature Burial - Missed out on the removed from field goodness.

Raigeki - Fundementally broken. Could be fixed by adding a monster requirement. Flash of the forbidden spell alludes to this doesn't it? Make a monster, weilder of the forbidden spell, who allows raigeiki to be played. :)

Snatch Steal - only let it work on monsters with < 1000 attack points.

The Forceful Sentry - Top of deck would be less painful. but would allow for a yata-Garusu like lock.

Crush Card Virus - Ugh this card. Well it might help to make it affect both players. but why not instead make it target only a certain attribute or type. most of the other "virus" cards work like that Tribe-Infecting Virus or Tribe-Shocking Virus.

Exchange of the Spirit - Konomi forgot to check the opponents graveyard. still would be quite powerful as you would then know exactly what to expect... Let the opponent choose to swap deck and graveyard.

Imperial Order - raise the cost to 2000 to make it a riskier gamble.

Last Turn - if the only reason this is banned is the Special summon canceller. just negate the effects of monsters, or give this card somekind of priority. really this card is too awsome to be banned.

Ring of Destruction - Lp limits on activation. Both players must have more than 3000, a draw caused by this card is considered a loss.

Royal Oppression - Meh, fundamental broken game stopper. even if you raise the cost both players can abuse the effect. I don't want it unbanned but that is just me.

Sixth Sense - Increase the cost of failure to correctly guess. sounds fair.

Trap Dustshoot - how about your opponent must reveal which cards in his hand are monsters. then you select one at random.

Whew that is a lot of cards.

I'm really glad this disscussion topic took off so well, I will be making my comments shortly. ZGWolf (talk • contribs) 23:52, April 2, 2012 (UTC)

Please remember that the point of this article is to fix the card while keeping it fundamentally the same.

Discuss here

In favor of organization discuss down here. ZGWolf (talk • contribs) 16:03, March 24, 2012 (UTC)

CED-pay half LP and you cannot summon any monsters this turn

Makyura-making this balanced is like banning mokey mokey.

cyber stein-monsters cannot attack and die at end of turn

dark strike/mind master/magical scientist-once per turn and dark strike cannot attack the turn he uses eff

goyo-make the ATK like 1900-2100

just thoughts LG talk My own Guides 16:41, March 24, 2012 (UTC)

I still don't understand why Konami decided to make Dark Strike Fighter so broken. Its anime eff was balanced. Now, about the topic:

CED's eff could deal burn damage to both players, but probably it would be banned anyways (for the same reason Ring of destruction is).--絶望 (talk • contribs) 16:54, March 24, 2012 (UTC)

Actually if burn damage was done to both players, it might not be banned as the effect is less controllable than R.O.D. If I had a couple Kozaky's SD button on the field when you triggered it it could backfire completely. Still doesn't stop CED from being a monster form of Self-Destruct Button.ZGWolf (talk • contribs) 14:08, March 25, 2012 (UTC)

I think Makyura can be balanced by saying that only one trap can be activated during the turn he is sent to the graveyard, and that the effect of Makyura can only be activated once per turn. 75.58.122.97 (talk) 17:08, March 24, 2012 (UTC) EDIT - Add that he must be sent from the field in addition to the above, and he might even get unlimited. 75.58.122.97 (talk) 17:16, March 24, 2012 (UTC)

no no no,at the best makyura will be limited and yeah only 1 trap at a time like Destiny HERO - Dasher LG talk My own Guides 17:40, March 24, 2012 (UTC)

How about making Painful Choice have a cost of 2000 or 3000 lp and pick up the top 5 cards of your deck for your opponent to pick from, not ones of your own choice? 75.58.122.97 (talk) 11:43, March 25, 2012 (UTC)

While that would make it balanced, it would also make it pretty rubbish as a card. Remember the point is to fix the abuses, not nerf it into the ground. Actually that sounds like something you use to pick up the top five cards of your opponents deck and give him one of them. Trap counter part called Easy choice? ZGWolf (talk • contribs) 14:08, March 25, 2012 (UTC)

How about for Painful Choice:
Continuous Trap.
You can only activate this card in the Draw Phase before your opponent draws.
Reveal the top 5 cards of your opponents deck, you then pick one of them and they add it to their hand as if it were their normal draw, shuffle the rest back into their. Send the top 3 cards of their deck to the grave.
During your next Draw Phase reveal the top 5 cards of your deck and then your opponent chooses one of them for you to add to your hand as if it were your normal draw, shuffle the rest back into your deck. Send the top 3 cards of your deck to the grave.
After your first draw phase after this card has been activated destroy this card.

Sadly after thinking of this I realized it'd be great for Wind-Ups.
121.222.170.239 (talk) 14:59, March 25, 2012 (UTC)

Why no one ever bother visiting my own article? --FredCat 15:07, March 25, 2012 (UTC)

Are we ment to have known that existed?

121.222.170.239 (talk) 02:25, March 26, 2012 (UTC)

A huge buttload of loop-centric cards, like Mass Driver, Substitoad, Dark Strike Fighter, and Mind Master can be balanced if they have a "X per turn" limit. X being any digit from one to three. After all, Mass Driver would seem nigh-useless if it could only use its effect once per turn. --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 06:48, March 26, 2012 (UTC)

Agreed. There should never be a card that is as many times as you want per turn. Cannon Soldier isn't restricted in any way, and it may seem fair. But, it's only a matter of time until it gets as abused as those others. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 17:25, March 26, 2012 (UTC)

Cannon Soldier only sees less use because it requires a Summon that could be better spent elsewhere. The only alternate method to use it is to use other resources to bring it to the field. These factors bog down the consistency of getting a successful OTK loop out of it, since the opponent would only need that other turn to take it apart. --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 04:04, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

Most of those suggestions are good. Giant Trunade is easier to negate if you can use "The Huge Revolution is Over". "Victory Dragon" isn't that good, but it's mechanically broken because it prevents the use of the Side Deck. Safe Return is broken even at once a turn. Trish at once per duel doesn't fix the effect. "Frog the Jam" isn't a Frog in Japan. The fix on Mr. Pot is nice.

Dark Strike Fighter: Anime effect. Can't attack this turn.

Tsukuyomi: Opponent's monster only. Remember Warrior Toolbox? Mystic Swordsman? Good times.

Dimension Fusion: Can't Summon other monsters on the same turn.

Cold Wave: Just Traps, and opponent can still Set. Can't Summon in the same turn.

Metamorphosis: Same ATK or lower. It could still get Restrict, but so can "Instant Fusion".

Designless Square (talk • contribs) 17:58, March 26, 2012 (UTC)

THRIO cannot stop Trunade. Trish can be recycled and spammed, so the once per duel thing does help.

I like your suggestions. Why exactly did Dark Strike Fighter get buffed instead of nerfed? Usually cards are more powerful in the anime and then made fair for real life. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 18:12, March 26, 2012 (UTC)

Why not change Dark Strike Fighter's effect so that inflicts 100 damage * the monsters level. You could also reduce his attack a bit.

matthew.lightbody@talktalk.net (talk • contribs) 09:48, March 27, 2012 (UTC)

Halfing the damage is only going to double the time it takes for the OTK.

The problem with it is it's not once per turn allowing people to abuse its effect with monsters that can be summoned up to an infinite number of times. Take the Quillbolt Loop for example.

121.222.170.239 (talk) 10:33, March 27, 2012 (UTC)

The best way to nerf Dark Strike Fighter would probably be adding Once per turn... to the card effectJa1lbreakr0cks (talk • contribs) 02:42, March 29, 2012 (UTC)

i like this thread heres some ideas: cyber jar - remove the extra cards from play mind master - make it once per turn sinister serpent - at end of turn after effect is resolved remove it from play delinquent duo - pay half your life points harpies feather duster - destroy exactly 2 spell or tap cards on your openents side of the field metamorphasis - monster dies at end of turn raigeki - as harpies cold wave - can be countered by openent dicarding a spell Tsukuyomi - you have 2 discard a card 2 activate its effect