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So I was thinking, the reason these cards are banned is because Konami wasn't thinking to straight when they published them, and didn't consider how useful the card effects could be. Some of these cards could be fixed by making a few minor changes.
So copypasta from the reasons forum with my suggested changes.
Chaos Emperor Dragon - Envoy of the End - His effect comboed with monsters that can put things back on the field (like Sangan) make it broken. and he can be special summoned really easily. so how about we make it so he negates the effect of all other monsters destroyed this way. Also maybe have the cost of using the effect Higher, Like 3000 life points.
Cyber Jar I can't see a way to fix this card without fundamentally changing its abilities.
- The rest of the cards picked up are sent to the Graveyard? Maybe?Ja1lbreakr0cks (talk • contribs) 02:42, March 29, 2012 (UTC)
- Actually how about tacking on Morphing jar's effect of discarding all cards in your hand first? Or that the number of cards in your hand must equal those in your opponents?ZGWolf (talk • contribs) 00:05, April 3, 2012 (UTC)
Cyber-Stein Monster special summoned by this effect can not attack this turn, be used for synchro material, and has it's effect negated. Maybe that will Help?
Dark Magician of Chaos- effect should only happen when normal summoned?
Dark Strike Fighter - I'm not familiar enough with this card to straighten it out.
Destiny HERO - Disk Commander - Most cards with this kind of effect are removed from play after using it once?
Fiber Jar - Reset button is unfixable. make both players lifepoints 8000 to complete the image.
- But it would still be banned. It just resets even more. Therefore, there is no reason to add onto the effect. UltimateKuriboh (talk • contribs) 08:08, May 12, 2012 (UTC)
Glow-Up Bulb - meh it could come back on its own.
Goyo Guardian - Really the best balance for this card would be to nerf its attack.
Magical Scientist - negate the effect of monsters summoned by this card? throw in once per turn to prevent XYZ spam.
Magician of Faith - instead of returning to the hand, how about the top of your deck?
Makyura the Destructor - I don't think this can be fixed without fundamentally changing his ability.
Mind Master - Effect reminds me of Summoner of illusions, but it is a tuner so a quick Sychro is probably the purpose. Monster summoned can not be used as synchro material would balance it, but might ruin the point of having it :/
Rescue Cat - probably fundamentally broken.
Sinister Serpent - I originally misread this cards effect. I read it as if a sinister serpent exist in your graveyard, you can return this sinister serpent (on the field) to your hand. Worhless effect that way, but I don't see a way to fix this.
Spore - to quote a pro, see glow-up bulb.
Substitoad - Special summoning from deck is nasty, change it to sending a card to your hand. Also drop the pointless frog the jam limitation.
- The "Frog the Jam" limitation is because when you look at the Japanese text of Frog the Jam's name, it does not have the kanji for the word "frog" in it, which bars it from being a member of the "Frog" archetype. UltimateKuriboh (talk • contribs) 08:08, May 12, 2012 (UTC)
Thousand-Eyes Restrict - No way to fix without fundamentally changing it's ability. Maybe if you made summoning it VERY restricted by requireing exact material, cannot be Special Summoned in other ways. And make it a level 10 to eliminate its low level priviledge.
Tribe-Infecting Virus - when the host dies doesn't the virus go too? Changes it into a more expensive Ragieki.
Trishula, Dragon of the Ice Barrier - once per duel.
- Would do nothing, as players normally only use the effect once per Duel (unless they have a way of returning it to the Extra Deck for another Synchro Summon). UltimateKuriboh (talk • contribs) 08:08, May 12, 2012 (UTC)
Tsukuyomi - No way to balance without fundamental changes. Wouldn't help to drop the spirit return to hand effect because then you could still combo with P. soldier or hane hane.
Victory Dragon - The monsters used for tribute can not have been special summoned. Easy fix.
Witch of the Black Forest - Meh, No idea. It's supposed to summon a weaker monster, so limiting level might help.
Yata-Garasu your opponent has no cards, you have Yata, you win. How about making it so the opponent can negate effect by revealing top card? or why not changing it to your opponent draws in the end phase?
Brain Control THis was ment to be the "Balanced" version of change of heart. Crank it up to Half your lp, or better yet 5000.
- How about not paying life points? This card's cost can still be bypassed with Spell Economics Maybe make it a trap that can only be activated on your turn, similar to Hidden Book of Spell? Or discards, tributes, a "You cannot Special Summon a monster or conduct your Battle Phase the turn you activate this card"?Ja1lbreakr0cks (talk • contribs) 23:12, May 2, 2012 (UTC)
Butterfly Dagger - Elma Change it to destroyed by battle.
Card of Safe Return-Once per turn.
Temple of the Kings- Doh, poor Serket. Anyway, fix by dropping the trap effect or (Maybe)once per turn. The special summon is what is supposed to be really valuable.
Change of Heart - activate only in a losing situation? lower lp, no monsters, ect.
Cold Wave - Fundamentally broken?
Confiscation - How about selecting a card at random?
- "Your opponent selects and discards one card from their hand", that way anyone running this card gets busted by Fabled/Dark World.
Delinquent Duo - Fundamentally broken
Dimension Fusion - What I think this card is supposed to mean is that the Different Dimension that the DD monsters come from is merging with our dimension. Thus let's change it to only monsters banished by effects of a DD monster, or DD spell card.
Giant Trunade - Indirectly broken. destroying your cards but sending your opponents back to hand might fix it.
- Nope. Would still allow for OTKs on the user's part (since this new effect is better than Cold Wave) UltimateKuriboh (talk • contribs) 08:08, May 12, 2012 (UTC)
Graceful Charity - Discard 2 then draw three?
- They should either make it discard for cost, or banish 2 cards from the hand, because Dark Worlds can exploit this card as isJa1lbreakr0cks (talk • contribs) 02:44, March 29, 2012 (UTC)
- Well, there's 3 Unlimited Starlight Road and 3 The Huge Revolution is Over. And I don't think there would be any way to entice people to use Gryphon's Wing (even if you made the effect better) in order to get rid of only 1 specific card. The aforementioned cards are better and more versatile. UltimateKuriboh (talk • contribs) 08:08, May 12, 2012 (UTC)
Last Will - card canot be used for sychro summon, and the effect is negated.
Mass Driver - Counter system to limit number of uses. "breaks" after 5 shots.
Metamorphosis - needs a way to prevent easily summoned cards like metal reflect slime from using this card. It is indirectly broken.
- Summoner of Illusions style effect would be good, destroy/banish the monster summoned with metamorphosis at the end of the turn. The only way it could get worse is if metamorphosis said the special summon was treated as a fusion summon (that would be broken as hell)Ja1lbreakr0cks (talk • contribs) 02:46, March 29, 2012 (UTC)
- actually how about only normal monsters can use this effect.
Mirage of Nightmare - This card can not be destroyed by card effects that the owner of this card activates. It can get really double edged itself if you attempt to abuse it.
Painful Choice - put the cards on the bottom of the deck? remove them from play? OH I got it. Put them in your opponents graveyard. XD The purpose was making your opponent pick the lesser of 5 evils, so removing the advantage of sending to the grave is key.
- You can't put your cards in your opponent's graveyard, but the remove from play idea is good. Or you could make it shuffle back into the deck, but then that would help with cards like Guardian EatosJa1lbreakr0cks (talk • contribs) 02:50, March 29, 2012 (UTC)
- Why not make them work something like Parasite Paracide shuffled face up in either your deck or the opponents then destroy/banish when drawn. ZGWolf (talk • contribs) 00:05, April 3, 2012 (UTC)
- Well, it can't be the opponent's Deck, since that would restrict their normal draw during their Draw Phases. If it was your Deck, I think the nerf MIGHT be too harsh, as no one wants to skip out on 4 possible normal draws during the Draw Phase. UltimateKuriboh (talk • contribs) 08:08, May 12, 2012 (UTC)
- Why not make them work something like Parasite Paracide shuffled face up in either your deck or the opponents then destroy/banish when drawn. ZGWolf (talk • contribs) 00:05, April 3, 2012 (UTC)
- Or Konami could make a new archetype of Spell Cards whose effect includes "While this card is in your hand or face-up on the field, its name becomes 'Pot of Greed'." The face-up on the field part is for when a player activates it to trigger the Spirit of the Pot of Greed's effect. UltimateKuriboh (talk • contribs) 08:08, May 12, 2012 (UTC)
Premature Burial - Missed out on the removed from field goodness.
Raigeki - Fundementally broken. Could be fixed by adding a monster requirement. Flash of the forbidden spell alludes to this doesn't it? Make a monster, weilder of the forbidden spell, who allows raigeiki to be played. :)
Snatch Steal - only let it work on monsters with < 1000 attack points.
The Forceful Sentry - Top of deck would be less painful. but would allow for a yata-Garusu like lock.
Crush Card Virus - Ugh this card. Well it might help to make it affect both players. but why not instead make it target only a certain attribute or type. most of the other "virus" cards work like that Tribe-Infecting Virus or Tribe-Shocking Virus.
Exchange of the Spirit - Konomi forgot to check the opponents graveyard. still would be quite powerful as you would then know exactly what to expect... Let the opponent choose to swap deck and graveyard.
Imperial Order - raise the cost to 2000 to make it a riskier gamble.
Last Turn - if the only reason this is banned is the Special summon canceller. just negate the effects of monsters, or give this card somekind of priority. really this card is too awsome to be banned.
Ring of Destruction - Lp limits on activation. Both players must have more than 3000, a draw caused by this card is considered a loss.
Royal Oppression - Meh, fundamental broken game stopper. even if you raise the cost both players can abuse the effect. I don't want it unbanned but that is just me.
Sixth Sense - Increase the cost of failure to correctly guess. sounds fair.
Trap Dustshoot - how about your opponent must reveal which cards in his hand are monsters. then you select one at random.
- Impossible. In order to confim your opponent isn't hiding any Monster Cards in their hands, you NEED to look at their entire hand. Choose another option for nerfing. UltimateKuriboh (talk • contribs) 08:08, May 12, 2012 (UTC)
Whew that is a lot of cards.
Please remember that the point of this article is to fix the card while keeping it fundamentally the same.
Dark Hole - can only be activated while you control a monster, or maybe 2.
Heavy Storm - same with Dark Hole.
Monster Reborn - respectable, but still... probably activate while you control no monsters or even control less monsters than opponent.
Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning - Semi-Nomi → Nomi, and probably 2 LIGHT and 1~2 DARK.
- DSF would be fine if it didn't exist.
- Cyber Stein isn't that broken any more. It's too easy to stop.
- CED would be fine if it had summoning costs akin to those of Sky Scourge Norleras.
- Cyber Jar wouldn't be as broken if it could only be activated on your opponent's turn.
- Fiber Jar cannot be fixed and still be Fiber Jar.
- Disk Commander wouldn't be broken if it either let you draw one card (as such a card exists) or if it's effect only worked once per game.
- Metamorphosis isn't broken anymore provided Thousand-Eyes isn't legal.
- Glow-Up Bulb is fine, Konami was being stupid.
- Fishborg is broken. Launcher is balanced.
- Goyo could have 1800-2200 ATK or only work once.
- Magical Scientist would have to be made pointless (Fusion Monsters can't be tributed, used as Synchro/Xyz Material, etc) or have a 5000 LP cost.
- Magician of Faith is too slow to be broken, but it could only get back Normal Spells.
- Makyura would have to be once only.
- Mind Master once per turn would be fine.
- Rescue Cat would have to prevent you from Synchro/Xyz Summoning with materials.
- Sinister Serpent is just broken inherently but rather slow and doesn't do as much as it would seem.
- Spore is fine.
- Substitoad - Once per turn
- Thousand-Eyes Restrict - It would have to be nerfed to the Level of Relinquished or made only summonable by Fusing Relinquished and Thousand-Eyes Idol, otherwise it would be summonable by Instant Fusion for plusses.
- Trishula One per duel
- Tribe-Infecting - Snipe Hunter exists
- Tsukoyomi is fine, it's not that good any more. Way too slow.
- Yata is fine.
- Victory Dragon is fine in TCG as you can forfeit at any time.
- Brain Control...Mind Control is broken enough.
- Etc... BF2 Talk Deck Guides 15:08, May 15, 2012 (UTC)
CED-pay half LP and you cannot summon any monsters this turn
Makyura-making this balanced is like banning mokey mokey.
cyber stein-monsters cannot attack and die at end of turn
dark strike/mind master/magical scientist-once per turn and dark strike cannot attack the turn he uses eff
goyo-make the ATK like 1900-2100
I still don't understand why Konami decided to make Dark Strike Fighter so broken. Its anime eff was balanced. Now, about the topic:
- Actually if burn damage was done to both players, it might not be banned as the effect is less controllable than R.O.D. If I had a couple Kozaky's SD button on the field when you triggered it it could backfire completely. Still doesn't stop CED from being a monster form of Self-Destruct Button.ZGWolf (talk • contribs) 14:08, March 25, 2012 (UTC)
- I think Makyura can be balanced by saying that only one trap can be activated during the turn he is sent to the graveyard, and that the effect of Makyura can only be activated once per turn. 184.108.40.206 (talk) 17:08, March 24, 2012 (UTC) EDIT - Add that he must be sent from the field in addition to the above, and he might even get unlimited. 220.127.116.11 (talk) 17:16, March 24, 2012 (UTC)
How about making Painful Choice have a cost of 2000 or 3000 lp and pick up the top 5 cards of your deck for your opponent to pick from, not ones of your own choice? 18.104.22.168 (talk) 11:43, March 25, 2012 (UTC)
- While that would make it balanced, it would also make it pretty rubbish as a card. Remember the point is to fix the abuses, not nerf it into the ground. Actually that sounds like something you use to pick up the top five cards of your opponents deck and give him one of them. Trap counter part called Easy choice? ZGWolf (talk • contribs) 14:08, March 25, 2012 (UTC)
How about for Painful Choice:
You can only activate this card in the Draw Phase before your opponent draws.
Reveal the top 5 cards of your opponents deck, you then pick one of them and they add it to their hand as if it were their normal draw, shuffle the rest back into their. Send the top 3 cards of their deck to the grave.
During your next Draw Phase reveal the top 5 cards of your deck and then your opponent chooses one of them for you to add to your hand as if it were your normal draw, shuffle the rest back into your deck. Send the top 3 cards of your deck to the grave.
After your first draw phase after this card has been activated destroy this card.
- That actually is a pretty decent effect, but if its continuous It will be negated by the user via mystical space typhoon or other cards :/ and yeah windups.
A huge buttload of loop-centric cards, like Mass Driver, Substitoad, Dark Strike Fighter, and Mind Master can be balanced if they have a "X per turn" limit. X being any digit from one to three. After all, Mass Driver would seem nigh-useless if it could only use its effect once per turn. --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 06:48, March 26, 2012 (UTC)
- Agreed. There should never be a card that is as many times as you want per turn. Cannon Soldier isn't restricted in any way, and it may seem fair. But, it's only a matter of time until it gets as abused as those others. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 17:25, March 26, 2012 (UTC)
- Cannon Soldier only sees less use because it requires a Summon that could be better spent elsewhere. The only alternate method to use it is to use other resources to bring it to the field. These factors bog down the consistency of getting a successful OTK loop out of it, since the opponent would only need that other turn to take it apart. --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 04:04, March 30, 2012 (UTC)
Most of those suggestions are good. Giant Trunade is easier to negate if you can use "The Huge Revolution is Over". "Victory Dragon" isn't that good, but it's mechanically broken because it prevents the use of the Side Deck. Safe Return is broken even at once a turn. Trish at once per duel doesn't fix the effect. "Frog the Jam" isn't a Frog in Japan. The fix on Mr. Pot is nice.
- Giant trunade is a nicer first turn then heavy storm, but worse mid-game as it can set up a finisher without clearing your field. sending cards to the deck would be good. aslo I like the idea that cards affected by this card would be considered destroyed, even if they aren't sent to the graveyard. I know Victory Dragon is never coming back, but it is sooo shiny, if konami did there job right and only gave it to tournement winners period... but that would keep me from having one. RAGE. ZGWolf (talk • contribs) 00:44, April 3, 2012 (UTC)
Dark Strike Fighter: Anime effect. Can't attack this turn.
Tsukuyomi: Opponent's monster only. Remember Warrior Toolbox? Mystic Swordsman? Good times.
Dimension Fusion: Can't Summon other monsters on the same turn.
Cold Wave: Just Traps, and opponent can still Set. Can't Summon in the same turn.
Designless Square (talk • contribs) 17:58, March 26, 2012 (UTC)
- THRIO cannot stop Trunade. Trish can be recycled and spammed, so the once per duel thing does help.
- I like your suggestions. Why exactly did Dark Strike Fighter get buffed instead of nerfed? Usually cards are more powerful in the anime and then made fair for real life. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 18:12, March 26, 2012 (UTC)
Why not change Dark Strike Fighter's effect so that inflicts 100 damage * the monsters level. You could also reduce his attack a bit.
- Halfing the damage is only going to double the time it takes for the OTK.
- The problem with it is it's not once per turn allowing people to abuse its effect with monsters that can be summoned up to an infinite number of times. Take the Quillbolt Loop for example.
- 22.214.171.124 (talk) 10:33, March 27, 2012 (UTC)
i like this thread heres some ideas: cyber jar - remove the extra cards from play mind master - make it once per turn sinister serpent - at end of turn after effect is resolved remove it from play delinquent duo - pay half your life points harpies feather duster - destroy exactly 2 spell or tap cards on your openents side of the field metamorphasis - monster dies at end of turn raigeki - as harpies cold wave - can be countered by openent dicarding a spell Tsukuyomi - you have to discard a card to activate its effect
- psst sign your posts... anyway, sinister serpent would again be useless if you applied that effect. unless you mean once per duel? anyway, what do you mean by raigeki as harpies?
The reason why they ban cards
First of all, everyone here has been fooled. Why do you think we ban any card? Put it this way, is it really unfair to any player if both player run 3 copies of Pot of Greed? Or are you really going to cry to your mommies if your field is wiped because you haven't at all protected it with the hundreds of cards that negates destructions and your opponent used Raigeki?
I am not here to agree or disagree with banning here, but the reason why banning exist is because the company who sells cards wants you to keep on spending money and get new booster packs. They will have a tough time doing that if most decks are filled with staples like Pot of Greed.
They have the right to make money, but we also have the right to have fun dueling, so here is what I think that can make our game more fun:
- In a world with no bannlist, a major problem is duels can finish too quickly when one player draws the right card such as Chaos Emperor Dragon - Envoy of the End, this makes the game less interactive. But it can be easily fixed with the addition of games in a Match. How about we play best out of seven? or even nine instead of the current three? This forces players to be considerate of the consistency or their deck and not just explosiveness, and also keep in mind, when both players have access to the same pool of cards, there is no fair or unfair. At the end, duels might be quicker and more one sided, but both players will have equal opportunity to gain that upper hand.
- Cards should be created not banned in order to somewhat balance the game. Continuing on with my example of Pot of Greed because that is considered to be one of the most Broken card by many people, what if a trap card can make you draw 4 cards when your opponent draws outside of his/her draw phase? Would your opponent still be that advantageous activating POG? Just get creative, when a combo gets too powerful, design a better one, add, not subtract is way to go.
- Match winners are inexcusable, they are not designed for real play anyways.
- I'm going to be the first of what I imagine will be many people to say that your thoughts are bullocks. Yes, Konami does love money, but they do also hate overpowered decks because decks like that drive players away from the game. Adding games to matches? Do you know how long it would take to finish Matches? Events like YCS would have to be like a week long. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 05:24, April 30, 2012 (UTC)
are you f***ing kidding me anonymous? no banlist means that people will be running like only 3 decks, yata lock, teledad and last turn based. also pot of greed reduces a 40 deck card into 38 and 3 pots mean 34 cards. and about the fun part, i want to see you having fun when you get a yata lock and have nothing to do but passing hoplessly while losing the duel to a 200 ATK monsteq attacking every turn. or losing to something like Jowgen the Spiritualist because you cant summon anything for last turn. LG talk My own Guides 06:43, April 30, 2012 (UTC)
Listen LG, if you can't stand loosing, why are you not FTKing your opponent before they lock you down with Yata? This is why I suggested increasing the number of games, because they will be played quicker with those so called banned cards. Consistency is the most important thing, if you want to Yata-lock me 3 time out of seven, thats cool, I'll just last turn you the other 4 times and win.
Well, then whoever have more lifepoints win, it will take 3 seconds comparing life points since neither player will ever draw.
Rulings for Limited
what would happen if there's a ruling that states you can have only (something like) 3 Limited cards? so far, when i dueled someone with a really strong deck. they usually have almost every limited card added, which really pisses me off. where's the fun in that if you're going to take control of the field with ease. 126.96.36.199 (talk) 21:55, May 9, 2012 (UTC)
- Let's not. Having 3 Limited Cards, is annoying, we have trouble enough drawing into a limited card already (Because it's at 1, duh!), no need to make the restraint of having only 3 Limited cards. ---Dark Ace SP (Talk) 15:33, May 12, 2012 (UTC)
Theres no point in limiting limited cards, because it undermines the purpose of the banlist. If the banlist has proper limitations on the cards that need to be limited then , there is no need for limit on the number of limited cards. It would get tedious trying to choose which limited cards you can use , especailly as theres allot of semi-limited cards that aren't amazingly broken.