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If "Skill Drain" is active on the field and a face down "Morphing Jar 2" (or any other flip effect monster) is flipped face up by an attack, and DOES NOT survive the battle, does it's effect resolve at the point it is sent to the graveyard after being destroyed by the battle, and thus not negated by the active "Skill Drain", or is the jar still considered "on the field" at the time it's effect activates? I have encountered duelists in person and read contradictory statements regarding this scenario and would like the correct answer please. My understanding is that flip effects are not negated in this scenario and have been dueling under this assumption.
- The eff activates and resolves in substep 6 of the damage step.
- The mons is sent to grave in substep 7 of the damage step.
- --Lê (talk • contribs) 15:43, June 13, 2013 (UTC)
Based on the breakdown of the battlephase Substep 6:Resolve Effects, the aformentioned "Morphing Jar 2" is now considered destroyed, yet STILL on the field?? ("If the Flip Effect of the flipped monster targets, you cannot select a target that has been destroyed during damage calculation.") For example, my "Morphing Jar 2". I am curious as to why a monster card can be considered both destroyed AND face up on the field at resolution of it's effect? So, the flipped flip effect monster's effect that was destroyed by battle WILL be negated?? And, not that I do not trust you personally, as I do not know you, but I have both read and heard so much that contradicts the other on this that I require more input from at least 1 other source.
- FLIP Effect activated and resolved on the field, reckless if they're destroyed or not. Same thing approves with all other cards in the chains - like "Mystical Space Typhoon" being target by "Dark World Lightning", and the former still on the field when "Dark World Lightning" resolved - without the effect. --iFredCat 16:11, June 13, 2013 (UTC)
And yes, I do realize that "Morphing Jar 2" does not target, however, this does not explain why a monster card can be considered both destroyed AND face up on the field simultaneously. (this is my interpetation based on the language of the text used in the Breakdown of the Battlephase) I am reading this incorrectly? Please, I would like clarification on this.
Yes this is true. However, if the flip effect monster is no longer face up on the field, (at resolution of it's effect) it's effect will not be negated by "Skill Drain". My question is how a monster can be considered both destroyed AND face up on the field simultaneously. Is there an unofficial "limbo zone" like that of a monster who's summon is being contested by a card the likes of "Solemn Warning"?
- I never say that "Morphing Jar #2" does target - I only made a reference of the reason why "Dark World Lightning" failed to destroying "Mystical Space Typhoon" since it was already face-up in the resolve.
- And yes, "Limbo Zone" does exist; if you flipped summon your "Critter" and your opponent activated "Solemn Warning", Critter's effect won't activate since it was never on the field at that time. But that's not true for "Morphing Jar #2", it was still on the field when it was flipping to face-up and destroyed by the Battle. --iFredCat 16:21, June 13, 2013 (UTC)
Do you mean the effect itself resolves on the field, regardless of where the monster is at resolution? If so, then I agree, as the only significant factor is WHERE the effect activated, not WHERE the monster is at resolution of it's effect. But, again, this does not explain why a monster can be considered both destroyed AND face up on the field simultaneously. (if this is the case) My understanding of "destroyed" when referencing Yu-Gi-Oh, is that the card that was "destroyed" is no longer on the field. (it matters not WHERE) Is this not the very definition of "destroyed" in Yu-Gi-Oh?
- I recalled that "Stardust Dragon" has his effect that activated and resolved on the field, even if it was Tributed. --iFredCat 16:34, June 13, 2013 (UTC)
Correct, you did not. That comment was added after I realized that when referencing the Breakdown of the Battlephase, I neglected to mention that "Morphing Jar 2" does not target. (which I do not see as having any bearing on why a monster card can be considered both face up on the field and destroyed)
Yes, I am aware of the unofficial, but generally accepted "limbo zone" referencing a monster(s) attempting to be summoned. My second question was, is there such a "limbo zone" for monsters destroyed by battle, but not yet sent to the graveyard (such as this scenario with "Morphing Jar 2" in sub step 6 of BOTBP), and if not, why not? If so, how is a monster considered both destroyed AND face up on the field simultaneously? This seems to defy logic when applied to Yu-Gi-Oh. (again IF this is the case, it seems to read this way)
Your reference to "Stardust Dragon" was spot on. This, and "Koa'Ki Meiru" rock types (guardian, sandman, wall) were the monsters I had in mind from my previous post.
- They are still treated as being face-up on the field, and Skill Drain will negate it. But it's the rule that if it has been decided that a monster will be destroyed or would leave the field by some other way, effects cannot be applied to that monster. That's why Penguin Soldier can't return itself to the hand when destroyed by battle or why MST cannot target itself. 18.104.22.168 (talk) 17:36, June 13, 2013 (UTC)