Forum:Reasons why cards are Forbidden/Limited

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• From the creator of the "List of cards to side in to cripple meta decks", comes the...

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In case someone somehow missed it. Click "Show" on the right side of the bar.

This list is for the people who are curious about why certain cards are banned/limited.

This list can also assist people before posting a prediction on the next banlist.

Please help out by pointing out changes that should be made in the list (if any) (please include reasons).

And for those who are wondering. No, I didn't make this list recently. It been on 2 other forums before. This is the most updated version of it as the other 2 aren't being updated.

See also: Historic Forbidden/Limited Chart. --  Falzar FZ  talk page  useful stuff    07:32, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

69.124.5.7 (talk) 15:57, November 7, 2012 (UTC)

Discussion

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The Tyrant Neptune

Look. Konami. All you need to do is re-errata Lyrilusc - Independent Nightingale to say (this card cannot be tributed.) There. Problem solved. (C107galaxytachyon (talk • contribs) 03:06, October 1, 2017 (UTC))

Or just ban Instant Fusion. Norden, Tyrant Combo, Thesus...free materials...the list goes on. Sanokal K-T (talk • contribs) 04:00, October 1, 2017 (UTC)

Mind Master

We want Mind master back to play as limited in 2014

The psychic deck is the thousands favorite and popular synchro deck in the word, but unfortunately it's not played in Tournaments because:

• it's stell slow without "Mind master"
• weak without "Mnid master"
• Psychic deck known as OTK deck, but without Mind master,that's olmost never will happend.
• The level of decks playing become higher and higher every day because of new decks as buijin and evilswarme....

We want see Psychic deck in big tournaments and arrive to top 8, and without Mind master,i think is dificult or may be impossible.

Personally I play psychic but I've always felt that something's missing, and I'd suggest "Mind Master" and "Brain Research Lab" become limited to be fair.

Thousands of duelists wait for it to come back in the next ban list, so...

''Let's duel'' Kickboxer1988 (talk • contribs) 17:32, March 3, 2014 (UTC)

Morphing Jar #2

Okay, I don't know if this is the best way to ask, but does anyone know why "Morphing Jar 2" got completely banned (April 2014 Lists (TCG))? It only seems to have gotten any use in the All-Out Attacks OTK. As far as I can see... --LordGeovanni- (Talk To Me) *Kupo* 07:51, March 25, 2014 (UTC)

It's because it excavates a lot of cards at once, so it's broken in Sylvans, as well as clearing all the monsters off the field. Sanokal K-T (talk • contribs) 08:20, March 25, 2014 (UTC)

The AOA-OTK appears to be the reason. Though it'd be more sensible to just ban All-Out Attacks due to the variations on the OTK.

MJ2 doesn't interact well with Sylvans ignoring their high-Level monsters. Although it excavates them, they still need to be sent to the Graveyard for their excavate-and-mill effects to trigger. Any LV4 or lower Sylvan hit in this process is just Set on the field with no fanfare.

The other possibility is that the banlist maker is bitter over Empty Jar. --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 09:10, March 25, 2014 (UTC)

I actually just found out that MJ23 got an errata. Originally, I was disappointed that it didn't change to"excavate" but I guess they changed their minds...? I thought only the cards that ended up in the Battle Pack 2: War of the Giants - Round 2 set would be the cards that got errata'd? They really must have changed their minds because other cards got changed too.

As it is, I could possibly see MJ2 hit for that reason (Sylvans) but it doesn't make sense. Gadjiltron hit the nail on the head. I would have to have several monsters on the field when I then FLIP MJ2 in order to Shuffle my Deck and monsters and then possibly excavate some high level "Sylvans"? The Shuffle part would prevent stacking and then I have the whole "Hope and Pray" style? Not the best. Even then, the AOA-OTK is a stupid reason too. It relies on a restricted Deck as well as two monsters on the field (out of a max potential 4) with only Trap Monsters and Extra Deck monsters for backup (Trap Monsters and Extra Deck monsters don't count for the count of MJ2).

A bigger possibility (in my opinion) was something to do with Pendulum Summoning. Maybe something where you summon 4 and then FLIP MJ2? Or maybe as a deterrent to MJ2 being the perfect solution to the opponent using Pendulum, but that should have been hit after the first format of Pendulum, not before it had a chance... --LordGeovanni- (Talk To Me) *Kupo* 11:26, March 25, 2014 (UTC)

And the "Jackpot 7" FTK/OTK. --Missign0 (talk • contribs) 02:00, March 26, 2014 (UTC)

Just what is the "Jackpot 7" FTK/OTK? I thought that used "Dark Scorpion Burglars", not MJ2... --LordGeovanni- (Talk To Me) *Kupo* 04:08, March 26, 2014 (UTC)

The Jackpot 7 OTK is a deck that trolled a few tournaments in the OCG before (like how Self-Destruct Button and Final Countdown got hit last format), it's an OTK where you set MJ2, use Creature Swap, have Macro/Banisher of the Light/Radiance on your field, and banish the Jackpot 7's from your deck to win. However, Jackpot 7 isn't TCG yet, I guess it's just a pre-emptive ban out of fear it would troll when it does become TCG...but banning Morphing Jar 2 for that reason, while unlimiting Primal Seed to allow for FTK's with Macro + Sparks, makes no sense to me. They're both inconsistent as heck, after all. Ninety-eight (talk • contribs) 16:32, March 26, 2014 (UTC)

There's no need for Macro/Banisher in this equation. Jackpot 7 only triggers if they banish themselves by their own effect, and do so if sent to the Graveyard by an opponent's card effect. --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 23:40, March 26, 2014 (UTC)

That is just silly, you would need to have a deck where you can get MJ2 on the field under the opponent's power (basically Creature Swap and nothing else) while they have a monster, then you need a monster to return to your Deck (if you kill MJ2, you will need another monsteron your field), then hope that you manage to mill through your deck past all three Jackpot 7s. Wouldn't the Dark Scorpion Burglars OTK be more consistent? I would assume that you would have to use 5 or less monsters just to be able to mill a good portion of your deck... And then you need to summon 2 monsters if you want to kill MJ2 by battle... or hope that their monster is in attack-position with 700 or less ATK... --LordGeovanni- (Talk To Me) *Kupo* 06:24, March 27, 2014 (UTC)

Isn't the simpler way is to set Morphing Jar 2, then, activate either Creature Swap or Mystic Box and put it on your opponent's field, then, activate Book of Taiyou on Morphing Jar 2, forcing it's effect...Guardian Skunk (talk • contribs) 06:43, March 29, 2014 (UTC)

That isn't any better really. You raise the amount of cards that give MJ2 to your opponent to 6 (Creature Swap and Mystic Box), But you would still need to get MJ2 to the field, have one of those six cards from your deck, have "Book of Taiyou" also drawn, and then have all three "Jackpot 7" go past the excavating until you get to a MJ2 (if that is the only monster in your Deck, and it would be foolish to have any others anyway if this is your goal). If you limit yourself to 1 MJ2 (which would have the greatest chance of excavating all three "Jackpots"), the odds of success are less than the Monster only Gallis the Star Beast FTK Deck. That also relies on three cards ("Gallis the Star Beast", "Koa'ki Meiru Doom", and "Genex Ally Birdman") "Birdman" is limited to 1 so there is an extremely low chance of getting all three to your hand the first turn. That deck itself was not even the reason why "Birdman" got hit. In this case, MJ@ could benefit from draw Spells like "Upstart Goblin" for the purpose of getting the three cards, but that still wouldn't help the consistency of getting ALL three "Jackpot 7" before you had a monster show. It is like playing "Whammy, the all new Press Your Luck" and deciding to Blindfold and Mute yourself beforehand. There is no way to stack your Deck enough for the deck to work IMO. --LordGeovanni- (Talk To Me) *Kupo* 05:00, March 30, 2014 (UTC)

Or maybe it's because it's a Flip Effect Monster that removes every monster from the field. Like another certain Flip Effect Monster. Sanokal K-T (talk • contribs) 06:41, March 27, 2014 (UTC)

It is late for me, could you specify the monster you are describing? Not joking, I really am tired. Regardless, why insta-ban? Extra Deck monsters don't need to be replaced, they are just bounced. As such, it is quite often just "mill until 2 monsters are shown" or less after the field clearing. While it could help "Sylvan" out a little, their own Deck works better without it and its chaos. While the "return all monsters to the Deck" is quite useful, it is just as random for you as it is your opponent. Especially as a FLIP effect that most people know how to prevent anymore. (You can just "Forbidden Chalice" the monster). With all that is said, the card is a much better anti-OTK than many other cards out there. --LordGeovanni- (Talk To Me) *Kupo* 07:11, March 27, 2014 (UTC)

I was alluding to "Cyber Jar". Sanokal K-T (talk • contribs) 08:05, March 27, 2014 (UTC)

(Done) As it is, "Cyber Jar" was a bit much itself. While it does affect all the monsters on the field, they are destroyed. This gives a chance for them to prevent their destruction (which is much easier to do than to stop an effect that returns them to the deck). Second, the monsters are in the Graveyard for simple resummon. Even the opponent doesn't need to worry about having to summon the monster the specific way for synchros or such. Finally, that card gave a lot of benefit to the owner. It was almost a draw 5 with a bonus Special Summon all the Level 4 and under. Very strong, especially for a deck that focused on Level 4 and under. Even better if you focused on Xyz Summoning monsters that revolve around the same Rank. Make it a FLIP monster deck and sprinkle some monsters like Penguin Soldier and you would have a strong deck that isn't even based on an archetype. Combine that with a few different archetypes and you would be gold. --LordGeovanni- (Talk To Me) *Kupo* 08:25, March 27, 2014 (UTC)

Okay, I was able to find a deck that uses MJ2 in order to OTK with Jackpot 7 and I found out why it had to be Banned. Apparently, it is easier to mill MJ2 and/or MJ to the graveyard and use a card like "The Shallow Grave" to retrieve it. With that, combined with the Multi-FLIP card combos that Empty Jar is known for, it seems consistent. Especially with the Jackpots messing up decks like "Dark World". FOr more information, please see this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0c7nHhSEE4&feature=youtu.be --LordGeovanni- (Talk To Me) *Kupo* 00:56, March 31, 2014 (UTC) Just so everyone is aware, I am COMPLETELY in agreement with MJ2 being banned after seeing that. It would require too many other cards being hit in order to still allow MJ2 to stick around. (Or just "Jackpot 7", but that just came out and even Semi-Limited would kill the card completely). --LordGeovanni- (Talk To Me) *Kupo* 00:58, March 31, 2014 (UTC)

BTW, here's another way to abuse MJ2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8791ZIIOpvU&list=UUTidl9MVLFSuktlbQhxbU6w. --Missign0 (talk • contribs) 02:35, March 31, 2014 (UTC)

When we get a somewhat functional alt-wincon, someone's got to find a way to break it so bad the banlist hits it and damages nearby alt-wincons too. --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 16:06, March 31, 2014 (UTC)

you guys really need to talk bout that OCG list and the shit it pulled Chaos swarm (talk • contribs) 01:59, April 9, 2014 (UTC)

OCG changes are more or less footnotes. Unless you're asking for more details on why the card is taking its position OCG-side. --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 06:47, April 9, 2014 (UTC)

Also, good language would not hinder answers from coming as much... --LordGeovanni- (Talk To Me) *Kupo* 11:48, April 9, 2014 (UTC)

Just a Generic question, but I've seen many key cards in some strong decks unlimited (Mezuki, Plaguespreader Zombie, Emergency Teleport, etc) How Didn't that affect the meta? --LG Talk 03:42, June 29, 2014 (UTC)

They used to be good in the meta, but if you look up some of your facts, like the latest regionals and YCS in 2014, Zombies really don't top that much anymore, and Tele-DAD is past it's day and age, E-Teleport isn't that good anymore either. Yeah they can cause powerful combos sometimes but there are other decks that can do it far more consistently, and/or with good recovering power. Ninety-eight (talk • contribs) 20:29, June 29, 2014 (UTC)

We haven't seen an update to this for months! Where'd the regulars go? --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 07:31, February 11, 2015 (UTC)

Does it need to be updated much? Most of the reasons why cards are on the list seem fine to me. Maybe we could include more information on the OCG's new errata's or make it seem like some cards are more likely to come back, but with the way Konami has been handling things recently who knows what they'll do next... Ninety-eight (talk • contribs) 22:01, February 11, 2015 (UTC)

OCG banlist April 2015

Looks like they finally killed Dragon Rulers...Here's the link, updated the list with the changes. Also, why is it that all these banned cards are getting errata's? Now DMOC is only once per turn, during the end phase... Ninety-eight (talk • contribs) 12:13, March 16, 2015 (UTC)

Night Assailant's Errata

I'm not really sure someone missed it out but Night Assailant got a errta back in 2010. It now says Target 1 Flip Effect Monster in your Graveyard, except this card; return that target to the hand So I think you should add that detail at the list.

Thunder Eagle (talk • contribs) 22:09, March 27, 2015 (UTC)

"Except this card", means that it can't target itself, but if you have a different copy of Night Assailant in your grave, the 2nd copy can retrieve the first copy and an infinite loop will be created. Ninety-eight (talk • contribs) 16:11, March 28, 2015 (UTC)

Additional Reasons for Norden Getting Banned

Read the card carefully that it has no summoning conditions and its effect can be used multiple times per turn. That is, it can be abused with Re-Fusion and Call of the Haunted like there's no tomorrow. Don't you guys think it is a very poorly designed card? Sui cho (talk • contribs) 03:41, September 17, 2015 (UTC)

I wouldn't say "very poorly designed" - if it weren't for "Instant Fusion" (which, need I remind you, was a more-or-less worthless card back when it was released), all the advantages in the world wouldn't make it playable. It goes to show that old cards can really restrict the design of new ones. (Really, Norden should have either been Level 5, or had "A Fusion Summon of this card can only be conducted using the above Fusion Material Monsters", but it's not an unforgiveable oversight by the designers.) Battlemaniac (talk • contribs) 22:29, March 30, 2016 (UTC)

Really, it would be OP enough even with a once per turn restriction. Just look at what happened to Terrortop. Konami, just errata him and see what happens. Then it can be banned again if it's still too broken. (C107galaxytachyon (talk • contribs) 02:55, October 1, 2017 (UTC))

Ritual Beast Ulti-Cannahawk

I may misunderstand its rulings, and I'm not saying it should be Forbidden anytime soon; but is it possible that "Ritual Beast Ulti-Cannahawk" can be Special Summoned multiple times with its effect? I mean, you can return it to the Extra Deck by its effect to Special Summon two "Ritual Beast" monsters; but I'm sure you can Special Summon this card from the Extra Deck again and repeat the process a certain number of times in the same turn, right? --Yes, it's PSYCHID! ^{He talks! He does stuff!} 03:20, October 13, 2016 (UTC)

As long as you have enough different materials, yeah. Thanks to this guy, Ritual Beasts can take ages to finish a single turn, and things that take time are undesirable in a tournament setting. Sanokal K-T (talk • contribs) 03:24, October 13, 2016 (UTC)

Color for Link Monsters

Which color should we use for Link Monsters? I used the same blue color for Ritual Monsters for Firewall Dragon.

--Metalreflectslime (talk • contribs) 22:33, January 26, 2018 (UTC)

--Metalreflectslime (talk • contribs) 22:34, January 26, 2018 (UTC)