Forum:March 2013 Banlist Predictions

My predictions

It's been a bit more than two months since the September 2012 list became official, but now that we've had some new archetypes and new cards, I wanted to make this page for anyone's predictions in the upcoming banlist for next March. This is what I think will happen as of now:

Banned

• Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning - He's just too powerful; can get rid of any monster and can win duels by himself.
• Monster Reborn - No matter how you justify it, being able to bring back one monster from either player's graveyard at no cost is just too unfair.
• Gungnir, Dragon of the Ice Barrier - This card is more powerful now that Atlanteans are running rampant. Then again, unlike Brio, he has a once per turn restriction. But if Koonami doesn't hit this they probrably will hit marksman or infantry (see below)

Limited

• Sinister Serpent - Too slow for today's meta. It would create too many pluses or discard loops if it was at 2 or 3 (Hand/Card Destruction anyone?), but it's not broken enough to be banned. One is just fine.
• Queen Madolche Tiramisu - This isn't a gurantee, but if you insist hitting Madolches...
• Rescue Rabbit - He isn't as broken as Rescue Cat was, but being able to instantly summon any rank 2-4 xyz monster is too good IMO. Dino Rabbits can still run 3 gold sarcs, a Sangan, and TGU Leviair anyways. Also abusable in Evilswarms, Dragons, Machines, and Warriors.
• Tragoedia - He's pretty multifunctional, being able to summon himself whenever you take battle damage, he can steal an opponent's monster, and xyz/synchro just about anything you want. He'll be better at one, like his close cousin Gorz, than at 2.
• Atlantean Marksman/Heavy Infantry/Dragoons - Atlanteans are starting to get on my nerves. They'll probrably hit Gungnir if they don't hit any of these three(see above).
• Torrential Tribute/Bottomless Trap Hole - These cards are more powerful now that Ignition Priority is revoked. If Koonami doesn't hit one of these they should hit the other.
• Miracle Fusion - If this isn't limited it should at least be semi'd. Summoning Absolute Zero or Shining from your extra by baishing monsters from your grave is hardly ever fair, not to mention it's free fodder for Shining's second effect, if it's destroyed and sent to your grave.

Semi-Limited

• Advanced Ritual Art - This card isn't as broken as it once used to be, but setting up your grave with whatever you want in your deck is quite good. It isn't as crazy as it's cousins (like Future Fusion) though.
• Scapegoat - Stall decks aren't topping a whole lot today, and if this is semi'd it might be a good way to slow down the meta.
• One for One - As long as GUB doesn't come back, this might be able to come up to 2 to assist slower decks that revolve around mystic piper, kinka-byo, morphtronics, ect.
• Wind-up Shark/Magician/Rat - Wind-ups are still pretty good, and Shark + Magician on your first turn = spamming like crazy. Any one, or two, of these cards might get hit next March.

Unlimited

• Primal Seed - Since BLS would be banned per this list, this card can come back to 3 again.
• Spore - No one runs more than one, since it only works once a duel. Limiting it was pointless.
• A Hero Lives/E-Call - If Miracle Fusion becomes limited (or semi'd) like I suggested, these two can probrably come back to 3 again.
• Magical Stone Excavation - Who runs this card again?
• Reasoning - See Magical Stone Excavation.

Anyone has the right to criticize my predictions, but these are just my personal opinions. If they come out with more broken cards in the coming weeks/months I'll update this list. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 19:31, November 11, 2012 (UTC)

Not sure about Rescue Rabbit, sure it makes a quick Rank 4 summon, but you don't see it in many decks besides Dino-Rabbit, and with 1 less Tour Guide and 1 less Rabbit, the deck has slowed down, and now isn't really taking YCS by storm. Tragoedia not too sure about him, he's good and all, but he's pretty useless in the mid and late games, as his ATK isn't that high, while Gorz gains utility as the game drags on. I agree on the Atlantean thing, they will be hit, in some form, although not sure if Gungnir is the way to go. I want to agree to Torrential in a way, but there are lots of decks that special summon constantly, so having answers to them is useful, although Konami might just hit TT, they'll probably leave Bottomless alone, as it's been at 2 for years. ---Dark Ace SP (Talk) 13:46, November 13, 2012 (UTC)

Rescue Rabbit is used in plenty of decks. There is Machina Rabbit (Gear Gigant X + Mechanicalchaser), Dino Rabbit (duh), the now new Bahamut-into-Creature Swap/Mystic Box Acid Golem and, of course the infamous Noble Rabbit.--Let the Number take hold! 21:52, November 26, 2012 (UTC)

I find cards like Torrential Tribute annoying when I run into them, but then again, Konami might decide not to hit Torrential next format. Konami semi'd Mirror Force in the September 2012 format, which tells me they're trying to slow down the current metagame. That being said, it doesn't look too likely they'll hit Torrential, since that's a solid anti-spam trap card, like force, but I wouldn't rule it out. With regards to Atlanteans, two other cards that might get hit that I forgot to mention are Deep Sea Diva, since it can search and summon the monsters that can help synchro Gungnir with ease, or Mermail Abyssmegalo, whose effects are quite abusive with Atlanteans. As I mentioned, it's fair Gungnir says once per turn (while Brio doesn't), and you can't discard more than 2 cards, but discarding marksman and heavy infantry to get rid of 4 cards at once is something I just can't get used to. They need to either ban Gungnir or limit marksman/infantry. One other card that might get brought back after being banned for many years is Sinister Serpent. It's not that broken in today's meta IMO. (my IP changed, but I'm the same guy). 24.12.202.163 (talk) 17:36, November 13, 2012 (UTC)

Updated my list (same as the first IP above), I think this seems about right. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 20:41, November 25, 2012 (UTC)

One last update to my list...This is probrably my final call. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 19:12, December 18, 2012 (UTC)

My thoughts

Banned:

● Magi Magi ☆ Magician Gal - I've seen a friend of mine with my own eyes contruct a deck in such a way that he is able to summon this card consistently (mainly using Lightray Madoor and Chaos Sorcerer). With the addition of Reaper of Prophecy this lass may go out of control, and given how unbelievably powerful her effect is she may just become too much for the crowd to handle.

Limited

● Garbage Lord - we've all seen that people aren't really atached to their LP if it means they can get an edge (I'm looking at you, Solemn Judgement). And being able to consistently bring out Adreus and Hearth-Earth? Not to mention no restriction on using it for Synchro? AND a support card to search it? It might just turn out to be the next card everyone will spam, as was the case with Gorz when he splashed onto the scene.

● Aster Drawn - Spellcaster decks have a slew of tools that let them Special Summon low-level monsters easily, so this card could start a craze of explotaition of its draw capacity.

● Lightning Plover - fairly easy to Summon, but has an effect that's devastating to any Special-Summon oriented Deck - Fusion, Ritual, Synchro, Xyz etc. . It's essentially the next Brionac, AND it deals with a face-down for free to boot. Giving WIND decks more than one copy could result in too great of an advantage.

● Xyz Tribal - one could argue that the requirement to maintain both Xyz materials is a stringent one, but one must also keep in mind that there are effectless Xyz monsters and they have support cards. If this card stays unlimited, an agonizing meta-deck revolving around them will dominate the scene. I can see it now... Tribal Rabbit-Pearl! (read: I agree that Rescue Rabbit is likely to be limited)

--78.60.146.207 (talk) 20:35, November 11, 2012 (UTC)

Garbage Lord I could see, but the cost is really high, maybe at 2, but not 1. Lightning Plover is so not the next Brionac, it's more fair than Brionac, but at 1900, it's probably going to get run over by a Rank 4 Xyz. Xyz Tribal, it seems cool, but it's not like it's impossible to play around. ---Dark Ace SP (Talk) 13:54, November 13, 2012 (UTC)

Xyz Tribal makes Evolzar Laggia , Evolzar Dolkka and Evilswarm Ophion very difficult to destroy.

matthew.lightbody@talktalk.net (talk • contribs) 14:49, November 13, 2012 (UTC)

I haven't actually seen anybody use Garbage Lord yet, does it already have a Tier-1 potential deck? I can't see Magi Magi ☆ Magician Gal being hit personally, she's powerful but somewhat tricky to get out. On that note, I can't honestly think of any ban-worthy cards this format as of yet, except maybe (with improbability IMHO) BLS - EotB and/or one of the Big Three Limited spells. I agree that Plover is pretty hax, but I also agree that it won't be banned immediately, even if it makes a big splash. 108.196.206.15 (talk) 23:34, November 25, 2012 (UTC)

In terms of Magi Magi ☆ Magician Gal, I also can't see her being it. Being Rank 6, she's not as easily made as other Xyz monsters, even if you argue that Prophecy can take advantage of her, there probably not going to run more than 1 and they'll be using stronger monsters like Reaper and Prophecy Destroyer to make her, all to take 1 monster from you and lose 1 card in their hand. Magi might seem broken, but she's technically a fairer version of Mind Control and Monster Reborn. --Dark Ace SP (Talk) 02:31, November 26, 2012 (UTC)

As for Garbage Lord, it's not very useful as there is only one major Dark Rank 5 Xyz monster, which would be Adreus, Keeper of Armageddon or Number 53: Fake-Body God, Heart-eartH, and only Adreus is the better of the 2, as it's easier to summon. However, I think the real value of Lord will be with Synchro decks, he doesn't share the restriction of not being used for a Synchro Summon, like Gagaga Magician does, maybe we'll see him in a crazy new version of Tele-Dad, I mean the search card plus a Dark Tuner and this guy put exactly 3 Darks into your grave, but then again, DAD isn't searchable without Eclipse Wyvern, but the Synchro thing is really what is drawing me toward him. ---Dark Ace SP (Talk) 02:37, November 26, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, surprising as it is, Garbage Lord is far more exploitable in Synchro than in Xyz. The other thing is that, apart from when you're very low on LP, it can never be a Dead Draw. It does not have any restrictions like Cyber Dragon and the like on when it can Special Summoned. --Eps01 (talk • contribs) 09:32, December 3, 2012 (UTC)

True, but I think it's more likely to see a semi-limit on it than anything else, it basically mean you get to summon a Synchro Monster for the loss of 2 monsters and 25% of your total LP. ---Dark Ace SP (Talk) 23:11, December 9, 2012 (UTC)

Also, its searcher buddy Garbage Ogre is a TGU target; that could come in handy. On another subject, I don't think Aster Drawn will be hit at all. I feel as if the decks that could use it to good effect just plain don't need to, e.g., Wind-Ups. 108.196.206.15 (talk) 23:17, December 9, 2012 (UTC)

I'm not confident enough to make a solid prediction yet, though last format's predictions I made were really damn close. Nonetheless, I am confident to say I don't see many of the above changes. The OCG cards are powerful, but unless they're dominating tournaments (which I do not know the status of, they're not going anywhere.) Rabbit will stay at 2, Torrential and such removal cards will stay around where they are, and BLS isn't going anywhere. Konami clearly wants a more aggressive, more skill-oriented format. And yes, keeping BLS means players have to be skilled enough to combat a card that powerful. I do see Atlantean/Mermails being hit. Djjomon (talk • contribs) 00:34, December 10, 2012 (UTC)

I'm still not absolutely sure about what Mermail/Atlantean cards will get hit, but I'm still leaning towards hitting Marksman and Infantry. Not only are their effects absolutely ridiculous, but they generate a ton of broken pluses. Abyssmegalo could also be hit, if one could view him as the main source for discarding them and using their effects, but if he goes to 1, Marksman and Infantry will likely stay where they are, or go to 2 and not 1. Limiting Abyssmegalo, Marksman, and Infantry is just overkill. Dragoons is also potentially a contender, since he's a card that sets up your hand and instantly makes discarding a +0 in the deck. I'm still confident Sinister Serpent will come back next March; even in Merlanteans, he's not as broken or discard-worthy as Marksman, Infantry, or Dragoons are, and he's probrably not going to break any other meta decks if he comes back, like Tsukuyomi hasn't since it came back last September. Abysslinde ain't goin' nowhere; she's too balanced to be hit. She would be worthy of a hit if she didn't have a once per turn restriction, but she does. Spellbooks, Madolches, Worms and Chromallys probrably won't get hit because they're too weak. Firedances I could see getting hit, but they're relatively easy to counter. Konami also might knock down Sams again; I'm actually surprised they boosted the deck by giving them an extra Smoke Signal after they topped (still topping) at YCS. 24.12.202.163 (talk) 18:33, December 10, 2012 (UTC)

At this time I think it's to early to be making this list, as we've got two more booster sets to go before the list hits. That said for some of the older cards I can see a few things happening.

BLS - This guy is here to stay.They knocked down Chaos Sorcerer to one to combat his return, so far it's working.

TGU, Wind-Up Shark & Rescue Rabbit - With both TGU and Shark being in the OCG now we could see another hit to any of these cards as the OCG meta has been changed quite a bit by their release.

Salvage - If any water card will be hit it will be this one, at three it's way to over powered. This will be semi-ed or limited there is no question.

Those are my current predictions but as I said it's way to early to be making these predictions. Though as it stands, we are currently in the most balanced meta format for Yugioh in years with more than 10 decks currently holding onto top tier status. Which means the ban is nigh on perfect right now. I'm not saying that it will always be like this, come Cosmo Blazer or Road of the Tachyongalaxy we could get some broken TCG exclusive or an Archetype as broken as Inzektors in Road of the Tachyongalaxy. We don't know, so again this list is far far far to early. Come back in February, then we'll know.--The FireFALL (talk • contribs) 19:25, December 10, 2012 (UTC)

I forgot Salvage! Yeah, definitely worth considering since it can let you reuse Marksman, Infantry, Diva, Linde, and Attack Squad with no cost to activate it. TGU is fair at 2 IMO; it doesn't need to go to 1. Rabbit to 1, agreed, but Shark seems unlikely; Wind-ups lost 2 Carrier Zenmaighty's last September, so the hand loop is gone and Wind-ups lost a lot of their spamming power by losing 2 Carriers. They're definitely playable and good as they are right now, but if they lose a couple Sharks/Magicians/Rats, they'll be pretty much dead. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 21:18, December 10, 2012 (UTC)

Sure, Reborn has no cost and is one of the biggest sack cards in the game atm, but it's most likely not going to get banned well, because for one, its Konami we're dealing with here. Also, it's been limited for quite some time now (5 formats I think) and the card is still the same now as it was before. So why would Konami even consider banning it considering it hasn't really changed all that much, if ever? As for BLS, well that's slightly more likely, but it's not winning YCS's or world championships by itself so it probably will remain at 1. Trag at 2 is fine, to stop those OTK's. Miracle Fusion to 2 would probably be enough if you wanted to hit Heroes, and Dragoons would be better to hit since it can search for any Sea-serpent. Sinister should be an obvious choice, but I feel like Konami has probably forgotten about it by now. Spore should be an obvious choice. Yes, Rabbits can still use Sarc, an Leviair, but that doesn't come close to making up for the loss of consistency. Interesting how there's no Wind-Up card there (or maybe it's not), and Madolches don't really need to be hit yet.SNSD4Life (talk • contribs) 19:25, December 17, 2012 (UTC)

Oh well my list is this:

Forbidden:

● Monster Reborn ● Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning

Limited:

● Genex Undine ● Mermail Abysslinde ● Abyss-sphere ● Skill Drain ● Evilswarm Ouroboros ● Lightpulsar Dragon ● Magi Magi ☆ Magician Gal ● Tragoedia

Semi-Limited:

● Honest ● Judgment Dragon ● Maxx C ● Gungnir, Dragon of the Ice Barrier

Unlimited:

No one

189.134.177.74 (talk) 23:49, December 26, 2012 (UTC)

As I mentioned below, there's always someone who wants BLS and/or Reborn re-banned. I don't blame whoever wants those cards gone; they're game-winners by themselves. I agree to either, or both, of them, but it depends... I disagree about your predictions on Mermail-Atlanteans. I highly doubt Abysslinde is going to 1 because it's only a recruiter (with a once per turn restriction). Recruiters never get hit. The problem with the deck isn't linde or sphere it's Dragoons. Undine to 2 is possible, but I don't think it will go to 1. As I mentioned below, Chaos Dragons were practically murdered last banlist by losing Future Fusion and 2 REDMD. Lightpulsar to 1 is taking away all the deck has left to offer. Highly doubt it's gonna happen. Ouroboros and Magi Magi magician gal are pretty difficult to summon and Konami isn't going to hit unnecesary cards that are hard to drop in the first place. Skill Drain to 1, why? Skill Drain is an Anti-Meta card. Anti-Meta cards need to be at 3 to keep the meta slower. Limiting Skill Drain is taking away my main side deck answer to most of today's meta decks. Other than that, I don't see JD getting hit (unless Lumina goes to 3) and no way in hell Honest is going to 2. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 01:12, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

March 2013 banlist predictions and reasons

Banlist predictions and reasons

Banned:

Black Luster Soilder EOTB- this card it way too overpowered. It steals games by itself. I don't think this will happen though, mostly because konami likes having game stealing cards. MOnster Reborn- Same as BLS. Genex Undine- this allows for atlantian to have way too much advantage first turn. Mind control- it's a lot like change of heart because of Xyzs and Synchros

Limited:

Wind-Up Factory- allows the deck to have way too much search power. Wind-Up Magician- allow to many insane combos. The example is shark magician Atlantean Dragoons- allows the deck to be way too consistent. Rescue Rabbit- the deck was hit, remained good so this needs to go to 1. Mystical Space Typhoon- I feel that I can't set anything without fearing it to be blown up. It creates a situation that konami doesn't want. Sinister Serpent- it may help unplayed cards possibly playable. Lightpulsar Dragon- Chaos Dragons are still amazing just not as good as they used too. I could see this happening.

Semi-limited:

Black whirlwind- blackwing a haven't done anything. Help out their consistency. T.G. Striker- I do not know why konami hit this card. The T.G. Stun deck is somewhat inconsistent, and T.G Agents are not even on the same tier as their Alistar Alban varient or Simon He varient. Lonefire Blossom- Plants aren't doing anything Mezuki- Zombies aren't doing anything. Snoww- Dark World is a good deck but it hasn't done much. I think that this would be appropriate. Gates of Dark World- see snoww. Gladiator Beast Bestiari- the deck needs someting, although I don't think that this would do a whole lot. Book of Moon- it's a good card, but I think people would play just 1

Unlimited:

Reborn Tengu- I was testing plants with 3 of these guy and glowup and it wasn't amazing. This unlike Mali doesn't create mad plusses Magical Stone excavation- Bad. -2.

That's my list please comment!

P.s. this is my first article!

Mind Control might get banned, but it's fair in the fact that you can't attack or tribute the monster controlled, which was the broken part about Brain Control and COH. Rabbit will probrably go to 1 because it's consistent in several ways. It's not only abused in Dino decks, but it's also consistent in Dragons (2 lv 4 dragons>Queen Dragon Djin), Warriors (2 lv 4 warriors>Blade Armor Ninja or Heroic Champion Excalibur), Machines (2 lv 4 machines>Gear Gigant X) and Evilswarms (2 Evilswarm Heliotropes>Evilswarm Ophion, Bahamut, Nightmare, or Thantos), not to mention there's gold sarc, Leviair (summoned by Tour Guide), and a Sangan to search it with ease. Mystical Space Typhoon won't go to 1; if it does, people will run MASSIVE trap lineups in their backrow. MST was brought up to 3 a while back to solve that problem. That's also why Storm and Hole won't get banned, Hole of which to solve massive first turn monster spamming. Magical Stone Excavation, probrably. No one runs that card, some low tier decks might run 2, but no one would run 3. Dark Worlds aren't the best deck around, and with Shadow-Imprisoning Mirror and Macro Cosmos, they're pretty easy to counter, so I think they'll keep Snoww, Grapha, and Gates at 3. Lonefire might stay at 1 since Spore came back, but I would bring it up to 2 only if Spore gets re-banned, which I don't see happening. Book of Moon to 2 seems possible, but it would generate advantages not only by rendering your opponent's monsters harmless, but Morphing Jar and Ryko might be splashed more often, while other cards like Torrential and Mirror Force exist solely to punish your opponent. Mezuki, T.G. Striker, Gladiator Beast Bestiari, and Black Whirlwind are the key cards of their respective decks, and if they go up, those decks will become pretty good again, maybe too good for the meta. Hornet, Dragonfly, and Carrier Zenmaighty were all brought down to 1 to solve the problem with their respective decks last format, though wind-ups are still pretty broken, and I would probrably semi-limit Shark and Magician next format to keep wind-ups at a fair pace. If you wanted to hit Mermail Atlanteans, I'd just limit Dragoons; Undine doesn't need a hit. Lightpulsar to 1, are you kidding me. Chaos Dragons lost Future Fusion and two Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragons last September, how many more hits do they need? 98.206.70.2 (talk) 18:43, December 18, 2012 (UTC)

I've seen light pulsar splashed into other decks like heriatics. The semi limits are simply to give older decks a chance in the current format. MST is broke at 3 because again I can't set anything.

But if you increase the number of MST, people tend to run more traps, heck look at Dino-Rabbit, even with Heavy and 3 MST, the deck runs a decent trap line-up, at least 8-10 traps. --Dark Ace SP (Talk) 02:59, December 19, 2012 (UTC)

As to what things are being said, like Pulsar to 1 and stuff, I doubt Pulsar and Chaos Dragons are going to be touched. We've seen Chaos Dragons do well, but not take tournaments in very quick fashion. ----Dark Ace SP (Talk) 03:03, December 19, 2012 (UTC)

And if MST goes to 1, then people will still run 8-10 traps in those decks, except with one MST there won't be an easy answer to them. Night Beam could be a replacement, but if you're up against Skill Drain or Macro, you'll have a hard time around it with only one MST. You could semi-limit Bestiari, Whirlwind, or Mezuki, but I don't know if that will make those "old decks" too good or not. Maybe running 2 Bestiari's, Whirlwinds, or Mezukis would make those decks too powerful. Konami could semi them to give them a chance, but if they get out of hand, they might knock them down again. Running 2 Bestiari's in Glad Beasts would kill your opponent's backrow like crazy and Gyzarus would be a common problem too. Konami did bring Kalut back to 2 last format, so they could be trying to promote old decks to give them a chance at YCS and such, but at 2 some of those old cards might become too good. One thing's for sure - they won't be reckless and they'll play it safe at bringing some of the old decks back. They might semi some of those cards, but I wouldn't do all of them at once. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 17:31, December 19, 2012 (UTC)

People are running high trap counts because Inzektors are done MST was brought back to three to combat oppression which is now banned and most of the decks I helped haven't done crap for a while.

Inzektors aren't dead, they just lots a lot of consistency last format by losing 2 Dragonfly's and 2 Hornet's. They're still more than capable of otk'ing people, but it's harder now that you can only run one Hornet and Dragonfly. Opression is never coming back because whoever special summons first, special summons last when that card is at 1. There are lots of decks that run a ton of search cards and tons of traps today, so MST needs to be at 3 to stop the traps. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 21:17, December 19, 2012 (UTC)

I have noticed there is no response to me banning sinister serpent.

You have 3 night beam 3 dust tornado and 3 lance. I don't think mst at one will hurt anything

The fact is MST is faster and better than all 3 of those, MST has the advantage of killing face-up cards as well as face-down cards, and Dust Tornado is slower, it can't do anything the turn it's drawn, and Lance is not an MST is protects against some cards, but the -800 is usually enough to allow your opponent to run over the monster you were trying to protect. Those 3 are just weaker and inferior subs, they don't cut it, Konami learned this a few formats back in the Formats when GK and other such decks were winning many YCS, people just hid behind large 3-5 card backrows, and Giant Trunade and 1-2 MST didn't cut it, and Dust Tornado and other spell/trap removal cards were out then too. It didn't work.

As for Sin Serpent, we can debate on it, but it won't do a lot to help. I mean your running 1 inconsistent card to help run 3 Lightning Vortex or Divine Wrath, which are kinda painful to use without Sinister. ----Dark Ace SP (Talk) 03:44, December 20, 2012 (UTC)

In the format I wish to create is a slow format. You can wait to set cards.

This is a SLOW format, a format isn't defined by the number of traps you can set, but by what decks can win in the format, and in this format, we have a bunch of decks winning. I could see MST go back to 2, but it will never go back to 1, the future of the game has changed, and there are just too many traps out there to make a case for MST at 1, I think Konami learned this a while back. --Dark Ace SP (Talk) 13:53, December 20, 2012 (UTC)

Running 3 Divine Wrath's and 3 Lightning Vortex's with only one copy of Sinister Serpent (assuming it only goes to 1, not 2 or 3, which would then make it game-breaking) is just poor deck designing. Serpent doesn't immediately return to your hand when discarded; it only returns during your standby phase, and that basically means you can only activate one Vortex or Wrath per turn without a cost, which is rather slow if you ask me. I might run one or two Divine Wrath's or Lightning Vortex's if Serpent comes back, but 3 is way too excessive. And aside from discard fodder for a few cards (which usually aren't game-breaking in of themselves) there's not much else the little Snake can do to help you. If there's any card Konami should bring off the "banned" list next March, Sinister Serpent would be the best choice. It is, without a doubt, the least broken of all the currently banned cards, and like Tsukuyomi, could be a good way to slow down the format even further if it is unbanned. And yeah Ace, MST will never go to 1 again; there are too many decks that like to hide behind traps today. Many decks I've faced do nothing but summon a t-king and set 4 backrows and then wait. If MST was at 1, I'd have a hard time overcoming their massive trap lineup, not to mention I don't always draw Storm on my first turn, not that my opponent always sets Starlight Road either, but still. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 17:37, December 20, 2012 (UTC)

Has any one ever considered banning shock master. I mean really its like a walking cold wave!

Not at all. Cold Wave is MUCH worse than Shock Master, not only in the fact that you can't activate spells or traps, but you can't even set them from your hand, so it can shut your opponent down for a very long time, and in some decks, they might be completely crippled. Also, shock master requires 3 level 4 monsters, which makes it pretty hard to summon. Cold Wave is simply activating a spell card, making it much more effective than shock master ever will be. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 01:42, December 21, 2012 (UTC)

All on all, do you guys think under my list, we would have a good format.

Some part I can see, but others I can't. But I don't think it would really work out. Also, this thread is possible hits, we're really not trying to define a format, but yet we kinda are, get it? --Dark Ace SP (Talk) 23:45, December 21, 2012 (UTC)

MST is broke at 3 because again I can't set anything. - Then I sit back and laugh at you sir. 3 MST is critical to Yugioh because it puts that fear of them into you to make you play more strategically, rather than just setting your back row and sitting there all smug. Plus for the argument of 'they make it harder for lesser played decks', actually they make it easier. Because they then have more chances to counter a move, or a card. So yeah lets not have this discussion again. MST NEEDS TO BE AT THREE!

I wasn't actually going to post anything but this next bit but I thought that the MST thing needed to be cleared up... To whoever said that Scapegoat needed to go to two to slow down the meta...yeah anyone read my comments up top about needing to see all the cards released by February, before making this list. Well yeah we got Phantom Beast Planes in Lord of the Tachyon Galaxy meaning Scapegoat just became a meta card, so no it won't be coming down from one. Hell depending on how well they do Scapegoat could even be banned on the next list.--The FireFALL (talk • contribs) 23:01, December 24, 2012 (UTC)

I think Scapegoat wouldn't be harmful at 2 for the sole reason you can't normal, flip, or special summon another monster the turn you use it, in other words, you can only activate one per turn, not to mention the tokens can't be used for tribute summons. Of course, the predictions I made at the start of this page when I made it were only made based on the current metagame status. Things could always change, and with the soon release of some new meta decks, some of the cards I suggested semi-limiting above might stay where they are, or could even get banned instead, as you suggested Firefall. It's a bit too soon to tell, but there are some things I can certainly conclude from the current metagame status. Spore is definitely going to 3, or getting re-banned. Mermail-Atlanteans will definitely be hit in some way, shape, or form, but I'm not sure exactly how Konami will handle them. There's always going to be someone who wants BLS or Monster Reborn banned. Those 2 cards aren't required to keep the meta slower, like Hole, Storm, and MST at 3 are; they're just broken, game-winning cards in of themselves. Other than those changes, the only other staple change I can see coming next March is Sinister Serpent to 1. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 03:46, December 25, 2012 (UTC)

My Predictions #1

FORBIDDEN

• Elemental HERO Stratos - I think this is nuff said. Konami never really kills a deck, unless it is super broken. Hero Decks will surely slow down if this would be ban.
• Sangan - Well, either this card, or limit TGU to 1.
• Monster Reborn - I really hate the logic of a free revival of a monster from either player's graveyard.

LIMITED

• Tour Guide From the Underworld - Again, either this card, or ban Sangan.
• Rescue Rabbit - Still broken, but not as broken as Rescue Cat
• Mystical Space Typhoon - just a feeling..
• Wind-Up Factory or Wind-Up Shark - Either of the two. Deck is too fast, but not that broken.
• Atlantean Dragoons - Nuff said. Engine is engine.

SEMI-LIMITED

• Gladiator Beast Bestiari - Not as scary as it was before.

UNLIMITED (None for now)

Well, this is my predictions for now. Feel free to comment. :)

Jampong (talk • contribs) 14:22, January 2, 2013 (UTC)

As mentioned above, MST needs to be at 3 to discourage people from swarming their backrow with tons of trap cards. Aside from MST, the only other staple S/T removal card is Heavy Storm. TGU and Sangan are just fine where they are IMO, as is Bestiari (glad beasts would be really powerful if they had 2 Bestiari's; they could even go straight to tier 1). If you wanted to hit heroes, I would semi-limit Miracle Fusion instead of ban Stratos. Other than that, this list seems pretty reasonable to me. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 18:04, January 2, 2013 (UTC)

Even without MST we have ridiculous quantities of S/T destruction, though most of it is inferior. What if they limit MST to push Night Beam, for instance? 108.196.206.15 (talk) 21:05, January 2, 2013 (UTC)

MST is the only everyday spashable, fast, and easy way to kill off backrows in today's meta. There are other answers, but those answers are usually weaker and inferior to MST. As Dark Ace mentioned above, Night Beam, Forbidden Lance, and Dust Tornado, ect are only weaker and inferior substitutes for MST, and they just don't cut the bill. I run 3 MST's in almost all of my decks because it forces my opponent to put more thought into how they place their backrow, or how much of it to place. That's why it can't go to 1, because it's the easiest staple around backrows. Konami learned what the concequences of 1 MST were a while back, and they don't intend on facing those concequences again. People will just run massive trap lineups if MST goes to 1 because there won't be an easy answer to those trap lineups. Storm is the only other staple answer to massive backrows atm, but even it can be roaded or THRIO'd. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 01:59, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

[What if they limit MST to push Night Beam, for instance?]

Orly? I would run Dust Tornado before I EVER add Night Beam to my deck. The reasons most people use MST are

1) It does not have to be set unless you want to. 2) Can hit FD, or FU cards. 3) Can be activated in response to something (Most likely something that can destroy it, IE; another MST, or a continuous so that it resolves without effect).

Dust tornado covers 2 of those, and Night Beam covers none of those. I have said it before, but the only thing Night Beam really does better than MST (or Dust Tornado for that matter) is kill MSTs.

As for my predictions. I happen to like MST at 3, heavy/dark hole at 1, and monster reborn is annoying, but easily stopped what with 2 Warnings, and a Judgment. I personally feel "MOST" Extra deck cards that are banned could be limited, and we can just up warning to 3, but that is my opinion feel free to ignore it. (I know you already have so shush).

I would not mind Tour Guide back at 3, Reborn and rabbit are fine at 2 not that they bother me too much anyway.

Atlanteans however are my blind spot. I have yet to face them so I don't know how well they work, but just from what I have read about them it seems to me they will need to be hit. From what I have noticed this year Konami doesn't understand the idea of "balanced environment". When each time you release a new archetype and people near instantaneously break it you have some issues to resolve.

Kordeleski (talk • contribs) 03:15, January 3, 2013 (UTC)