Yu-Gi-Oh! Wiki
Yu-Gi-Oh! Wiki
(→‎LTGY: *takes a breath*)
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The major issue that was brought up is retaining the spirit of the card's name while translating. In some cases, localization is required in order to do that. No, not every single name the Organization comes up with will be used. But for maintaining the spirit of the names, I would trust them over you. For cards with ''romaji'' readings that are Engrish, you can't really argue what the intended translation was. If the Organization wishes to change those, it may not happen. But other card names are subject to his discussion. [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 23:06, February 19, 2013 (UTC)
 
The major issue that was brought up is retaining the spirit of the card's name while translating. In some cases, localization is required in order to do that. No, not every single name the Organization comes up with will be used. But for maintaining the spirit of the names, I would trust them over you. For cards with ''romaji'' readings that are Engrish, you can't really argue what the intended translation was. If the Organization wishes to change those, it may not happen. But other card names are subject to his discussion. [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 23:06, February 19, 2013 (UTC)
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:As I have explained before, Master D, you cannot translate between English and Japanese without also localizing: not only are the two languages almost entirely unrelated, but the underlying cultures are vastly different; this forms a feedback loop in which the language influences the culture and vice versa (and indeed, even high school foreign language courses advise their students that you cannot study a language separately from its culture; to do so is to get only half the picture and, as a result, miss a huge amount of necessary knowledge). Translation is taking a phrase, sentence, etc. in one language and replacing it piece-by-piece with equivalent parts from another language, while localization is the identification of what cultural aspects the original phrase relies on and the use of equivalent aspects from the target language's culture to convey these deeper ties (or, if you prefer, translation preserves the literal meaning of the text while localization preserves the spirit of the text); both aspects are important to professional-grade translation, but online translators and dictionaries usually only handle the former. In the specific case of Yu-Gi-Oh!, "the underlying culture" includes aspects of the franchise in general and the context of the card specifically - artwork, underlying storylines, and so on. Any translation that doesn't take all of this into account is only half-complete and overly literal.
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:This is where the Organization enters the picture: it's an entire team of people, including several translators who are reasonably proficient in Japanese, who work as a team to track down all the little (and not-so-little) references and puns the Japanese names make, and accept feedback from each other ''and other people'' to further improve their translations. You have been repeatedly pointed in their direction to work ''with'' them in translating card names, and yet you continue to insist that their work is garbage and your work is the only work that should be permitted on-wiki (you may not have said as much explicitly, but it's patently obvious to anyone willing to read between the lines of your comments).
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:We have humored you for months already now, because every once in a while you have a good point to make, but most of the stuff you make huge deals out of is just inconsequential nit-picking that doesn't serve to improve translations at all. So, you have a choice: either stop speaking for the entire wiki when you only speak for yourself and start working alongside the Organization instead of against them, or stop working on translations on this wiki. If necessary, this will be enforced by a block. <span class="nowrap">「[[User:Dinoguy1000|<span style="color:#00f;">ディノ</span><span style="color:#080;">奴</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Dinoguy1000|<span style="color:#F90;">千?!</span>]]」<sup>[[wikipedia:Help:IJP|?]] · [[User talk:Dinoguy1000#top|☎ Dinoguy1000]]</sup></span> 06:44, February 20, 2013 (UTC)

Revision as of 06:44, 20 February 2013


Following up on Forum:Offer of affiliation from our sources, I've been having a lot of discussions with members of "The Organization" about translation conventions. I've been redirecting card names used on Dueling Network to point the right articles.

After a few conversations on the subject with NeoArkadia, I asked some of the Organization members to give me their thoughts on literal translations, which this wiki seems to make heavy use of.

The full thread can be found here, but I'll post some highlights for those that don't want to register at DuelistGroundz to see it.

Translating literally can cause things like cultural references or wordplay to vanish. Imagine if we literally translated Pokemon names, for example. Goodbye Articuno/Zapdos/Moltres, hello Freezer/Thunder/Fire. Also, with card names, you can create issues because of the way Japanese works. For example, the "Thunderbird" in Mist Valley Thunderbird is different from the "Thunderbird" in Evilswarm Thunderbird. The first is "raichou", which can mean "ptarmigan" but with characters literally meaning "thunder bird". The second is "sandaabaado", the transliteration of the English word "thunderbird"

Deadborder

Personally my view is that since YGO is a kid's game, Konami doesn't heavily do the "literal" thing. Chasing for "correct" I personally feel excessive literalism specifically with YGO is a fool's errand. Chiefly because it's a children's card game, and being a children's card game, puns are something kids really really like. So we get a tendency towards names that are word-plays/puns. Which makes going for the literal name kind of dumb.

I believe STOR had a bunch of word plays (as did CBLZ). For example, we have 電光千鳥 as a good example. While it's name is literally Lightning Plover, it tends to lose the intent of it being named after Tachibana Dousetsu's sword Chidori, which has this whole mythology gag as being a sword that can manipulate/slay lightning.

Oh oh. I have another example why flat out literal translation is bad: JF13's Kamaitachi. You get the normal suspects, they'll translate it as "Fiery Dancing Long Sword" and be done with it. It's a FIRE based version of Kamaitachi, a classic Japanese youkai whose name is spelled literally "Sickle Weasel", but in the case of JF13's Kamaitachi, it was done Just For Pun."

You guys miss the fact that beyond rebuking someone for being a fuck up, it's also a Dice pun. The Org (specifically based on Eva's translation) went with the name "No Dice" because it's not only telling Snipe Hunter "NOPE", but it's doing it in a way that incorporates Dice. The big deal is at the end of the day, context is a huge issue that I think the Wikia has procedurally removed from the books. And as much as I'm not a saint on it, but you need to keep puns and wordplay almost ALWAYS in mind with this game. The game might as well be "Pun-Gi-Oh!" at this point.

NeoArkadia

There are puns and terms that literal translations will NEVER portray. For instance. Stardust Radiance Dragon, literally reads Flash Carat Dragon Stardust. Except another "Senkou" is the word for "Radiance/Flash/Brilliance/Burst/Whatever" and whatnot. It's probably more than just a pun or a typo, because back when people weren't as literate, every Han-using race in existence used to use bizarre Han character combinations to refer to a word just because they sound similar. Another example would be manga Black Feather Dragon. Its title literally reads mysterious wing dragon, but the "Mysterious Wing" part is often used as a single term that means "Black/Raven Winged" and whatnot. Furthermore, a single Han character can have upwards of 20 definitions, which can take on even more definitions depending on applications.

kahu

Most people who bitch about translations are people who don't know how to read Japanese. And those who know Japanese can't seem to realize you never translate something literally if you want someone else to read it. That's what Google Translate does, but that's because it's just an algorithm. I think the best way to go is to have a collective group discussing things as a whole and then keeping coherence between the sites, which is the whole point of The Organization. That way, you just discuss things once with a group of knowledgeable people rather than responding to every person who finds out their favorite Card just has a new name in DN.

ness00

This is not to suggest that we just accept every name that Dueling Network uses and be done with it. Particularly for cards that have romaji readings that are in Engrish. However, we have access to a group of translators that colloborate on the names and we should take advantage of that fact.

This doesn't just affect new cards either, this argument can be applied to many old cards - we are missing the puns, the wordplay and other references.

So, any thoughts? Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 18:54, January 7, 2013 (UTC)

As far as I'm concerned, we can rely entirely on the "Organization" to come up with the card names. Doesn't DN rely on NeoArkadia for their card names (as it did with "Phantom Beastcraft"), who in turn collaborated with the "Organization" to come up with the name? And yeah, sometimes we don't go with the literal definition of the card name: "Gogogo Gofu" is one such example. However, if we were to do this, idk if we would have to add another "warning" template to the top of card pages, warning that the given name is not the literal name. Also, should we try and make a space for the literal name in the card page, like under |altname? --UltimateKuriboh (talkcontribs) 19:11, January 7, 2013 (UTC)
Dueling Network uses the Organization for card names. They're based out of DuelistGroundz. NeoArkadia is part of that group, along with the other translators I quoted above and several others. Oh yes, the syllable cards shouldn't be translated, but the Organization doesn't translate them either, so we're in agreement them. I would say "yes" to the template it wasn't for how many templates we already have. I don't think there should be a need to document the literal translation in cases where we don't use it though. The implication is that the literal translation is literal, but not correct. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 19:22, January 7, 2013 (UTC)
Ya, I knew that. I lurk more than I post. However, the template thing I have in mind would look like the "Reconstructed effect" one, except red-colored (exclamation point icon is not necessary), giving the warning that the card's name is not a literal translation, but has been translated as closely as possible to keep to the spirit/intentions of the original Japanese name. Of course, this would be taken down as soon as the official name was released. --UltimateKuriboh (talkcontribs) 19:30, January 7, 2013 (UTC)
Although I've not always been a fan of their translations, I definitely think that this is a move in the right direction. They're experienced and they clearly understand Japanese. It would be better to officially rely on them for translations over people like Master D, who not only exclusively use online translators but also consider these translations more 'correct' than others. The literal translations are often just awkward, and if there's an alternative that adds to the intended meaning, then I'm all for it.--YamiWheeler (talkcontribs) 19:37, January 7, 2013 (UTC)
This would affect other pages too, when the "right" translation isn't always the official English name. Konami's translations have gotten better, but we can't take them all at face value either, just as we can't take all fan translations at face value. I mean, "Fushioh Richie" is obviously not a valid translation, for example. I really think "this was translated to maintain the spirit of the original name" should be the default. We shouldn't need a template that tells people that's what we're doing.
I can't recall where, but Master D has said he doesn't use online translators. We uses an online Japanese dictionary called Tangorin. That's a step-up from google translate, I'm sure, but still not great. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 21:52, January 7, 2013 (UTC)
What would happen in the cases of cards like "Fushioh Richie" then? How would the name Konami came up with for the TCG be shown alongside the real name? I'm not particularly fond of the Konami TCG name being shuttled off into "|altname". I would rather the real name be placed in bigger letters, and the Konami TCG name be written in smaller letters, either underneath the real name, or beside the real name (with parentheses in the latter case). --UltimateKuriboh (talkcontribs) 22:09, January 7, 2013 (UTC)
You're misunderstanding me. We'd keep the TCG names. Official English names trump everything. "Fusihoh Richie" is the TCG name, but its not a translation. What would be changed is the "trans" parameter. For that matter, DN also uses TCG names for all cards that are released, just as we do. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 23:01, January 7, 2013 (UTC)
First off, excellently done, Cheesedude. You've served the community well by bringing this discussion forth so splendidly. Making you Number IX was a smart move.
As Number I of the Organization, I've got a few remarks of my own.
It must first be understood that Konami's job is not to translate, but to localize.
It must next be understood that the Organization's role is to walk the tightrope between translation, transliteration, and localization - just as Konami itself does. This is how we as a group were able to call the "Enbu" Spell/Trap Cards "Fire Formations" within a week of the OCG release of Cosmo Blazer - we did research and collaborated, and as a unit, came forth with a viable solution. Lo and behold, Konami came up with the same solution through its own deliberations: The lesson is that nothing is as effective as the synthesis of hard work and teamwork.
It is interesting that folks think DN relies only on one of our number for information, though. Perhaps I haven't done a good enough job of making clear who exists within our ranks... then again, there are portions of the net that see me as solely responsible, or Neonian as such - they must all be corrected. The Organization stands tall as a unit, across the net: we are much more than the sum of our membership.
Cheese, do me a small favor: when you can, make clear who exists within our ranks, and make clear what you know of their roles. I will assist as needed. It is time we made sure our friends got proper credit for their involvement, as well. Pharaoh Atem (talkcontribs) 05:26, January 8, 2013 (UTC)
Sure. OK, you founded the Organization. Translator-wise, there is you, NeoArkadia, DarkEvangel, ness00 and Deadborder from the Pojo boards, plus Ryusui from the wiki, who you apparently have past history with. Kahu is also a translator (some of you may know him for NAC, he's all over the place). I haven't seen much activity from the other two translators (Darkplant and...Yuki, I think). Then we have four non-translators. Suilzen (whose role I am unsure of, but I've seen him around all over the place too), Neonian, who is a Dueling Network admin, Rei, who is the owner of DuelistGroundz and recently, well, me as a wiki representative. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 06:43, January 8, 2013 (UTC)
And then there are the three assistants: AEtherchild, Deltaneos, and myself.
Project:Translation. Have at it: read it, critique it, remake it to your own preferences. We need to make absolutely clear, once and for all, how Japanese translation is supposed to work here.
A quick note about the Organization info - I'm not sure this is the best place for it, but I feel it important to be presented somewhere; also, it is not my intention to "out" anyone in terms of accounts; if you don't want a particular account associated with your name or other accounts on the wiki for whatever reason, feel free to remove the link in question (or notify an editor, who will do so for you). At the same time, the opposite is true: if you have an account that you feel would be relevant to list there, feel free to add it or request an editor to do so; I'd like to get a collection of everyone's wiki, NAC, and Pojo accounts, at minimum. ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 11:19, January 8, 2013 (UTC)
Using translations from "The Organisation" would definately be useful. They are clearly experienced and know more about translating than most of us. It would definately be a step in the right direction. Neos01 (talkcontribs) 20:30, January 9, 2013 (UTC)

It begins

Alright, The Organization is ready to begin. If you see a change you disagree with, please work with them, not against them. Depending on how this goes down, I may be seeking help from the community for mass changes. I do not know if we'll have all the Org members editing stuff themselves of if I'll have a list of stuff to be changed. If its the latter, I'll make a new forum post. If you can help with the changes, I would appreciate it. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 10:47, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, Cheese.
A long time ago, I was a young, wet-behind-the-ears translator and transliterator and localizer for XeroCreative. I saw the wiki, and tried to help fix its problems. I was defeated at every turn, and gave up, deeming the wiki to be deserving of its problems as a result.
Now, Organization XIII will do what I could not - and everyone stands to benefit.
Let's go to work. Pharaoh Atem (talkcontribs) 23:03, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

LTGY

The Organization has finalized most of their LTGY translations. The work can be found here. Some of the card names differ from the wiki's in terms of stylistic choices, such as using a dash instead of a space. In those cases, I've just redirected the card articles to point to the right places. For other cards, we can begin moving the articles. Any objections or comments before this is started? Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 18:28, February 19, 2013 (UTC)

The Mecha Phantom Beasts' translated names aren't their TCG names; it should be Wheel of Prophecy, not Fortune. Tridon's name isn't an accurate translation of its OCG name. The Elemental Dragons.. just no... those words aren't contained anywhere in the kanji. Chouseishi doesn't mean 'regulator' in any way. Sylphine's name isn't an accurate translation. Chojuu is the Type's name, which doesn't mean 'Siren'; the Type has already been translated as 'Bird Beast'. Feral Imp isn't a series, so it shouldn't be renamed. Shinpan means just 'judgment', not 'judgment day'. Houotu means 'treasured sword', not just 'sword'. Break the Cycle?! That's not even close. And almost any card that has kanji... I think the consensus is that we don't go for speculation. They're just trying to guess the TCG name; they're not translating at all. MadRest 18:38, February 19, 2013 (UTC)
I don't even get it. Are we trying to guess the TCG name?! If so, the trans parameter will still have to be added if guessing what the TCG name will be is the new consensus. MadRest 18:45, February 19, 2013 (UTC)
Did you read the rest of this thread, where it was said that what the Organization does is somewhere between translation and localization? Of course they're going to look for patterns like those with "Feral Imp". Also, did you read the thread I linked you too, as opposed to just the names from it? Because there was a discussion about many of the cards names there.
Consensus is this topic (which you have not posted in prior to now) is to let the Organization handle translations. If that's not what you want you're going to have to present some arguments as to why and convince other members of the community that you're right. Consensus can change, but if it doesn't, this what we are going with.
If you want to argue these, you could also do so in the DgZ thread I linked you too. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 18:53, February 19, 2013 (UTC)
Um, yeah, if that's the case, I can make up names too. The Earthbound Gods will be Nazca Geoglyph Gods, since that's what they're based on (this is actually one of their reasonings for Ocean Ablaze, so it works). I don't mind using their names as placeholders until the TCG names are announced, but their names don't qualify to be in the trans parameter. I mean, speculation is everything against what our consensus stands for. Why shouldn't other users be allowed to speculate then? And, to be honest he never did say they were going to translate the names; they were trying to "localize" the names. That means these aren't translations of the names; therefore, the trans parameter would still need to be added. Also, I don't have an account. There is no reason to discuss these names. I agree, the Mecha Phantoms may be a matter of discussion, since they're actually close to the OCG names, but some of these are just downright made up. None of the words in Wicked Star's God Eater mean Break the Cycle, no matter how you twist it. MadRest 19:01, February 19, 2013 (UTC)
This is the same thing that happened with Pandemonium when it was called Lair of the Ten Thousand Demon Lords. Why don't we just bring that back?! MadRest 19:03, February 19, 2013 (UTC)
And please don't avoid the issue by saying, "Go talk to someone else!"; this is a serious issue; probably the worst thing that has happened to this wiki. MadRest 19:05, February 19, 2013 (UTC)
So...what's your point? You're being pedantic for no real reason. Localization does not mean "Translate exactly as it is written" it means "Translate and adapt to local standards". Anyone with google or a dictionary could figure this out so whatever the devil it is your babbling about can pretty much be summed up as "I just want to be right".

And real talk, Nobody cares. Neonian (talkcontribs) 19:39, February 19, 2013 (UTC)

It seems you don't understand the discussion. The wiki is willing to pass these made-up names as the actual translations for the OCG names. For some of the names, sure, they can be interpreted their way as well. However, most of them are just made up in an effort to sound cooler or to fit the TCG, having no connection to the actual OCG name whatsoever. That is called speculation, which this wiki is against. And this is not a case of, "Translate exactly as it is written." Any sane speaker of Japanese can tell you some of the names are just plain wrong. Or is someone willing to explain how they got "Break the Cycle"?! MadRest 19:47, February 19, 2013 (UTC)
That's how localization works you goon. Neonian (talkcontribs) 19:49, February 19, 2013 (UTC)
Consensus was not to speculate. Consensus is now to use the Organization's translations. Its you who doesn't seem to understand the conversation, Master D. Some degree of speculation is required. Most of the YGO community uses the Organzation's translations. For ease of use for the people who use this wiki, we should be doing the same. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 19:52, February 19, 2013 (UTC)
"Or is someone willing to explain how they got "Break the Cycle"?!"
I was the one who suggested it. The name in Japanese is a HYPER complex pun referencing the Evilswarm, the Constellars, both like twice at least, and them killing Sophia, essentially. The name would be almost literally "Those of the Stars (Constellars) and the Wicked Thoughts (Evilswarm) Slay the Goddess". The TCG name of Sophia is that she's the Goddess of Rebirth. Sombres and Kerykeion are killing/slaying/destroying Sophia so she can't continue her endless cycle of destruction and rebirth on the Duel Terminal World. -- NeoArkadia (talkcontribs) 19:58, February 19, 2013 (UTC)
Yes, I agree that it's localization, but the trans parameter is not used for localization. I already said I'm fine if they're used as placeholders for the TCG name. However, they cannot be used in the trans parameter. If the trans parameter isn't occupied, it means the TCG name is the same as the OCG name. You see where I'm going with this? Even you admit that they're localized, i.e. not an accurate translation. The trans parameter is used for people to know what the OCG name is and how it differs from the TCG name. If you're localizing what's in the trans parameter, it serves no purpose. MadRest 20:01, February 19, 2013 (UTC)
@Cheesedude These are not translations. Even they admit it. The point of this forum was how to combat literalism. This is no longer the case. Somehow, this forum was transformed into something that allows speculation and the users' own localization. And for some reason, everyone thinks that The Organization translates the names. They don't translate; they're making up fan names. The trans parameter will still use the actual translated names. I have no problems with using their names, but not in the trans parameter. MadRest 20:01, February 19, 2013 (UTC)
@NeoArkadia The problem is that you're using the TCG as an influence for how the OCG name is translated. "Rebirth" isn't used anywhere in Sophia's OCG name. Before you correct me, I know you're trying to localize the names, but the wiki is under the impression that you're giving an accurate transaltion that should be used for the trans parameter. MadRest 20:01, February 19, 2013 (UTC)
If you follow the Japanese lore for the DT, you'd know more about Sophia. She seeks to cleanse and reset (a.k.a. Rebirth) the entire Duel Terminal World upon her awakening due to Evilswarm Ouroboros and Constellar Ptolemy M7. The TCG explains her purpose in the story pretty well, to be honest.
There's also this cycle shown by the Duel Terminal Chronicles to the wars of the Duel Terminal World. It starts with an awakening in the tribes. Then it leads a state of chaos. Chaos leads into ruin and destruction. And finally opposites war against each other (in the first sequence it was Trishula and Ancient Flamvell Deity, the second DT wars it was Ouroboros and Ptolemy M7). They are slaying a goddess who seeks to restart the cycle of the entire planet. But the opposites are no longer fighting each other, they are working together. The cycle is broken. -- NeoArkadia (talkcontribs) 20:10, February 19, 2013 (UTC)
Yes, that can be explained away as speculation for the motive of the card, but not for the name. I said the trans parameter is used to offer a difference between the TCG and OCG. If the words "Break" and "Cycle" aren't in the name, it isn't valid for the trans parameter. That doesn't mean that you should only use a literal translation for it, just not a completely made-up name. And I don't even see the reason why you're complicating much of the names. "Moeagaru Daikai" simply means "Burning Ocean", while your version implies that the Fire Kings have overwhelmed the Atlanteans, when in fact it's supposed to be beneficial for both of those archetypes. Also, a siren is a mythological bird-like creature, but Choujuu is also the name of a Type, which can't be translated as Siren. Also, because of Rioto Harpyia, you won't be able to draw a parallel between them if you translate it as "Siren". All in all, I don't see why we can't move the current names to the trans parameter, and use theirs for the unofficial English name. MadRest 20:19, February 19, 2013 (UTC)
You say that if "Break" and "Cycle" are not in the name, it isn't valid, then you proceed to say that we don't have to use literal translations. I'm having a hard time rectifying those two things in my head. Also, look at the art. It looks like the ocean was drained. The effect works either way, the art is clearly depicting the FIRE version working. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 20:35, February 19, 2013 (UTC)
Oh, my God... Please look at the top of this forum, and you'll see a list of problems that arise when translating literally. Those are the problems we should focus on. A non-literal translation doesn't mean an inaccurate translation. When someone says you shouldn't translate literally, it doesn't mean you're given freedom on choosing a new name. Furthermore, Ocean Ablaze is a card with a simple, general translation that needs no contemplation. The artwork of the card doesn't matter. Only the kanji does. It has a general translation, and they've just complicated it by adding unnecessary words and changing it from a title to imperative. That is an inaccurate translation. It's not like you're even reading what you write. We simply need to translate the given kanji for it to be valid for the trans parameter, nothing else. This forum was started because some cards, like the Frogs, Kuja Kujaku, Kamai Tachi, etc. lose their puns when translated accurately (not literally). The problem with those cards weren't how literally they were translated; it was that no matter how they were translated, they would lose their pun. That was why everyone thought we needed The Organization's help, that they are somehow more adept at adapting puns into translations, or whatever. Then, everyone blamed the problem on translating literally. The only card in this set with such an issue is "Seija no Shinshoku." We don't need their assistance for any other card. "Moeagaru Daikai" has a general translation that doesn't have a pun involved, and therefore the meaning in the translation is kept. I don't know how this forum changed into allowing our own localizations for every card from now on. It seems you forgot why this forum was created. MadRest 20:54, February 19, 2013 (UTC)

(arbitrary indent reset) No, that is not the point of this forum. It encompasses all cards. The discussion came about as a result of me discussing with other translators about the way the wiki handles translations, including for cards already released in the TCG. In other words, it was about your translations. The ones that appear on a multitude of card pages that you edit. The cards not yet released are barely the tip of the iceberg and not even the focus of the discussion. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 22:10, February 19, 2013 (UTC)

The major issue that was brought up is retaining the spirit of the card's name while translating. In some cases, localization is required in order to do that. No, not every single name the Organization comes up with will be used. But for maintaining the spirit of the names, I would trust them over you. For cards with romaji readings that are Engrish, you can't really argue what the intended translation was. If the Organization wishes to change those, it may not happen. But other card names are subject to his discussion. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 23:06, February 19, 2013 (UTC)

As I have explained before, Master D, you cannot translate between English and Japanese without also localizing: not only are the two languages almost entirely unrelated, but the underlying cultures are vastly different; this forms a feedback loop in which the language influences the culture and vice versa (and indeed, even high school foreign language courses advise their students that you cannot study a language separately from its culture; to do so is to get only half the picture and, as a result, miss a huge amount of necessary knowledge). Translation is taking a phrase, sentence, etc. in one language and replacing it piece-by-piece with equivalent parts from another language, while localization is the identification of what cultural aspects the original phrase relies on and the use of equivalent aspects from the target language's culture to convey these deeper ties (or, if you prefer, translation preserves the literal meaning of the text while localization preserves the spirit of the text); both aspects are important to professional-grade translation, but online translators and dictionaries usually only handle the former. In the specific case of Yu-Gi-Oh!, "the underlying culture" includes aspects of the franchise in general and the context of the card specifically - artwork, underlying storylines, and so on. Any translation that doesn't take all of this into account is only half-complete and overly literal.
This is where the Organization enters the picture: it's an entire team of people, including several translators who are reasonably proficient in Japanese, who work as a team to track down all the little (and not-so-little) references and puns the Japanese names make, and accept feedback from each other and other people to further improve their translations. You have been repeatedly pointed in their direction to work with them in translating card names, and yet you continue to insist that their work is garbage and your work is the only work that should be permitted on-wiki (you may not have said as much explicitly, but it's patently obvious to anyone willing to read between the lines of your comments).
We have humored you for months already now, because every once in a while you have a good point to make, but most of the stuff you make huge deals out of is just inconsequential nit-picking that doesn't serve to improve translations at all. So, you have a choice: either stop speaking for the entire wiki when you only speak for yourself and start working alongside the Organization instead of against them, or stop working on translations on this wiki. If necessary, this will be enforced by a block. ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 06:44, February 20, 2013 (UTC)