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Can you still copy the name of an effect monster card that is unaffected by the effect of monster?96.44.92.186 (talk) 12:53, July 1, 2012 (UTC)
yes, because you don't affect the monster. D-range (talk • contribs) 12:56, July 1, 2012 (UTC)
What about if a monster card is unaffected by trap card and you use a trap card to change it's level while it is on the field?96.44.92.186 (talk) 13:04, July 1, 2012 (UTC)
this time you said the answer yourself, since you change the level, you affect a monster, so no. D-range (talk • contribs) 13:05, July 1, 2012 (UTC)
When you said copy the name of the monster, what cards are you talking about? HHT - (Talk to the Turtle) 13:06, July 1, 2012 (UTC)
none, this is a "what if" like question, it has no monsters as examples D-range (talk • contribs) 13:08, July 1, 2012 (UTC)
An example would be best, effects like Neo-Spacian Dark Panther Targets the monster that it is trying to copy. HHT - (Talk to the Turtle) 13:10, July 1, 2012 (UTC)
It is "Neo-spacian Dark Panther" that as the effect to copy the name of both a normal monster, and an effect monster card.96.44.92.186 (talk) 13:30, July 1, 2012 (UTC)
it does target, but the other monster isn't affected, since nothing changes at the monster. correct me if i'm wrong, but i think you could still activate the effect of dark panther. dark panther must copy effect monsters D-range (talk • contribs) 13:31, July 1, 2012 (UTC)
What about the monster that you are targeting? What monster card is that? HHT - (Talk to the Turtle) 13:32, July 1, 2012 (UTC)
i think this is a good example: Evilswarm Thanatos —This unsigned comment was made by D-range (talk • contribs) 13:34, July 1, 2012
sorry for that D-range (talk • contribs) 13:38, July 1, 2012 (UTC)
That's why I'm asking. As of now, there are only 3 cards that make monsters unaffected by the effect of other monster's effects.
- Vennominaga the Deity of Poisonous Snakes: It is unaffected by the monster's effects but it also cannot be targeted.
- Evilswarm Thanatos: It's effect does make it unnaffected by other monster's effects. However, it is OCG-only and the rulings don't specify anything about this situation.
- Lone Wolf: No one cares about this card. :(
There's no doubt that the effect of Neo-Spacian Dark Panther does Target but there are no official rulings about whether or not its effect affects the monster it is trying to copy. HHT - (Talk to the Turtle) 13:57, July 1, 2012 (UTC)
as far as i'm concerned, affecting a monster is changing data like increasing attack or changing the name. so with Evilswarm Thanatos, you can copy his name. —This unsigned comment was made by D-range (talk • contribs) 14:25, July 1, 2012
Sadly, we cannot rely on our opinions to figure out ruling situations. Konami could say anything and we would have to follow it.
Also, you forgot to sign your post again. HHT - (Talk to the Turtle) 14:28, July 1, 2012 (UTC)
XD D-range (talk • contribs) 14:31, July 1, 2012 (UTC)
I just what to remind you that "neo-spacian dark panther" can copy the name of normal monster card like "embodiment of apophis" which "Embodiment of apohis" is a monster trap, that is treated as a normal monster and a trap card. So if "neo-spacian dark panther" can copy the name of "Embodiment of apohis" why would it not be able to copy the name of "Blue-eye white dragon"?96.44.92.186 (talk) 18:57, July 2, 2012 (UTC)
it can't copy Embodiment of Apophis, it is treated as a normal monster, so it's no legal target. D-range (talk • contribs) 19:17, July 2, 2012 (UTC)
Then why in the unofficial TCG ruling it says it can?96.44.92.186 (talk) 20:00, July 2, 2012 (UTC)
The effect of Neo-Spacian Dark Panther can be used to copy the names of Normal Monsters such as Blue-Eyes White Dragon and Embodiment of Apophis while it is treated as a Normal Monster. HHT - (Talk to the Turtle) 20:07, July 2, 2012 (UTC)
- Also, Unofficial TCG never always be true. Most of the time it does speak truth, but it can also lying (lie-ing, whatever you spelling that way) with the Target. --iFredCat 20:50, July 2, 2012 (UTC)
TCG Previously official ruling from UDE are still correct until konami says they are incorrect, they wasn't any official ruling for tcg, or ocg, that states this ruling above is incorrect.96.44.92.186 (talk) 22:06, July 2, 2012 (UTC)
- Which is why Holy Bat can't copying "Embodiment of Apophis" after all. --iFredCat 01:07, July 3, 2012 (UTC)
User FredCat: Why do you keep saying that the previously official ruling for tcg is incorrect, if the ruling page doesn't show any proof that it is incorrect?96.44.92.186 (talk) 01:31, July 3, 2012 (UTC)
- Because I trust my buddy more than those "fake" rulings... if Hide Head Turtle said that Batman can't copied "Embodiment of Apophis", then that's it - you can't copying the Normal-Type Trap Monster with the power of "Dark Panther", period! --iFredCat 04:20, July 3, 2012 (UTC)
User :Hide Head turtle says that neo-spacian dark panther can copy the name of normal monster card however it cannot copy the effect of normal monster card because normal monster card have no effect to copy.
It is not up to a yugioh judge to just invent a ruling out of the blue when the previous ruling become unofficial and the ruling page claim it is still correct with no claim that it is incorrect. How about you ask konami if that TCG previously official ruling is still correct. The reason why I'm not going to e-mail them myself, it is because I cannot wait half a year, or 5 years to get the answer, since your a judge they may answer you quickly.96.44.92.186 (talk) 13:58, July 3, 2012 (UTC)
PS: I do not play in TCG tournament in my own town because the TCG judge claim that the official tcg, and official OCG is fake if it comes from this site.96.44.92.186 (talk) 13:58, July 3, 2012 (UTC)
- I was sarcasming, dude... you still can copying non-effect monsters as well. --iFredCat 14:00, July 3, 2012 (UTC)
Doing sarcasming is not professional, there are others ruling that confuses me, example:
Majestic star dragon can copy the effect of a gemini monster card treated as a normal monster in TCG only, it can only copy the effect of gemini monster treated as an effect monster in OCG only. In both situation Majestic star dragon cannot Gemini summon. While Neo-spacian dark phanter, can copy a gemini monster treated as a normal monster, or effect monster, in both TCG and OCG. Neo-spacian dark panther can gemini summon in both TCG and OCG.96.44.92.186 (talk) 15:43, July 3, 2012 (UTC)
You see how confusing it is above.96.44.92.186 (talk) 15:43, July 3, 2012 (UTC)
I agree with "96.44.92.186". If people ask you about rulings, you should give them a straightforward answer. Any use of sarcasm or figure of speech of anything like that would only serve to cause more confusion. Rulings themselves are already confusing enough.
Regarding the case of "Neo-Spacian Dark Panther vs Evilswarm Thanatos", I've asked Falzar FZ and this is what he explained to me:
- There's no reason why the effect of Neo-Spacian Dark Panther would affect the monster it is trying to copy. Also, in the case of Vennominaga the Deity of Poisonous Snakes + MST + Skill Drain + Neo-Spacian Dark Panther, WC11 says Dark Panther can copy the effect of Vennominaga. I suppose it's pretty safe if both logic and WC11 agrees. If anyone has any doubts they should ask Konami at us-ygorules@konami.com instead. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 01:24, July 3, 2012 (UTC)
- The scenario you've given is a bit complicated. Do you mean it like this?
- There is a face-up Skill Drain negating the effects of Neo-Spacian Dark Panther and Vennominaga the Deity of Poisonous Snakes. The effect of Dark Panther can still be activated and targets Vennominaga, MST is chained to it targeting Skill Drain. The effect of MST resolves first, Skill Drain is destroyed and Vennominaga's effects are applied. Dark Panther's effect resolves and it is still able to copy Vennominaga. HHT - (Talk to the Turtle) 06:23, July 3, 2012 (UTC)
- Precisely. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 09:36, July 3, 2012 (UTC)
Therefore, Dark Panther can copy the name of Thanatos, although it still can't use its effect since Dark Panther has no Xyz Material to detach.
Neo-Spacian Dark Panther can copy the name of a Normal Monster. This is true for both TCG and OCG.
Using the "Majestic Star Dragon" vs Gemini Monster scenario is not a good idea. The main part where the TCG and OCG disagree is the bolded part.
TCG: "If you negate the effect of a Gemini monster that is being treated as a Normal Monster, you cannot activate its effect. If you negated the effect of a Gemini Monster after it's been Normal Summoned again, you cannot activate the negated effect because "Majestic Star Dragon" cannot be Summoned twice."
OCG: "You may not select a Gemini Monster that is being treated as a Normal Monster as a target for the effect of "Majestic Star Dragon" which negates effects. If "Majestic Star Dragon" negates the effect of a Gemini Monster like "Gigaplant" or "Doom Shaman", then the Gemini Monster no longer has its effect which is listed by the "●", so therefore "Majestic Star Dragon" may not activate the Gemini Monster's effect which is listed by the "●"."
In the OCG, you cannot select a Gemini Monster that is being treated as a Normal Monster to negate its effects. This is because what are you Targeting is essentially a monster without any effects to negate.
In the TCG, you can choose to negate the effect of a Gemini Monster that is being treated as a Normal Monster. Why? BKSS.
UDE rulings are Previously Official Rulings. However, that does not automatically make all them incorrect. This is one UDE ruling which is still true to this day:
- "Berserk Dragon" cannot be Special Summoned with "Monster Reborn".
The only way to be certain that an old UDE ruling is wrong is if Konami issued a new one for the TCG. If you want to be extra careful, you can always consult your tournament's Head Judge or take it one step further and email Konami themselves (though it usually takes ages for them to reply).
If you feel that the TCG is too confusing, then feel free to join the OCG where the rulings here make more sense. HHT - (Talk to the Turtle) 16:56, July 3, 2012 (UTC)
OCG doesn't always make more sence compare to tcg. I have some proof in this example:
OCG: you cannot negate the summon of a fusion summon if (polymarization, or similar card are use), same thing with ritual summon even if they are both consider inherent summoned.
TCG: same as OCG
OCG: you can negated the summoned if ultimate offering is use, or Urgent Tuning is used.
TCG: You cannot negated the summoned if ultimate offering is use, or urgent tuning is use.
In here TCG as more balance.96.44.92.186 (talk) 14:53, July 5, 2012 (UTC)
Fusion Summons and Ritual Summon are not Inherent Special Summons. They are Special Summons caused by the effect of another card, Polymerization/Ritual Spell Cards.
As for "Horn of Heaven vs Urgent Tuning/Ultimate Offering", please read: Forum:Ocg ruling contradiction. HHT - (Talk to the Turtle) 15:53, July 5, 2012 (UTC)
What about "Armed Dragon LV7" I check the ruling page an it doesn't mention anything about if you can negate it's special summoned or not?96.44.92.186 (talk) 14:58, July 6, 2012 (UTC)
- Armed Dragon LV7 is summoned by the effect of Armed Dragon LV5 (an "Effect that Special Summons"), now go read Special Summon.
- -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 01:35, July 7, 2012 (UTC)
So I stand corrected, Does the new erreta of Enchanted Javalen for TCG is the same in OCG?96.44.92.186 (talk) 13:17, July 8, 2012 (UTC)
No, the card works differently in the OCG and TCG. If you want to know why, then read this: Forum:Enchanted javelin. HHT - (Talk to the Turtle) 15:21, July 8, 2012 (UTC)