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Bit of an odd point of discussion. I've also considered raising this on some other Yu-Gi-Oh sites, but I concerned about negative responses.
Basically I'm working on a slightly different version of the game for fun to try out different rules and "fix" many older and broken cards by giving them new, better or tweaked effects.
I've had a couple of ideas and I am tempted to hear what people potentially think about them. Remember that this is all work in progress and I'm purely throwing around ideas.
Please note that these new rules are not intended to be used on all existing cards and are intended for use in only the cards I've currently worked on. There may be something that upsets some of my new ideas but I might not know until I come to it.
Currently I have a new rough idea for a slightly altered level scale. With it, to compensate for their lack of effects, Normal Monsters will have up to 500 more ATK than other types. This essentially means that a top end Level 4 Normal Type monster could have 2000 ATK while a Level 4 Effect Monster will be reduced to 1500 ATK, unless it has some kind of downside. This is still a little flexible though.
Another point is that Level 7 and 8 Normal Monsters would have their ATK redistributed, so currently Blue-Eyes White Dragon is 4000, Dark Magician is 3500 and Red-Eyes Black Dragon is 3400. I have also considered increasing the standard Life Point amount to 10000 to compensate.
I am also doing away with any "odd" amounts on older cards as well as rounding up (or down if I feel) any 50's, so everything is at least in 100's. This is a personal choice to simplify Life Point calculations.
I want to simplify this. I personally feel that the current game is far to convolutes and it ostracises new and inexperienced players. I know that more veteran players might disagree with me here, but when a monster attacks you then get to activate cards and effects and your opponent can counter them. Once that's over the only cards that activate are ones which specifically do when attacked or destroyed i.e. searchers.
I'm expecting the worst reaction to this.
I'm trying to remove all the different terms and meanings for when a monster attacks. For now it is simply considered "an opponent's monster attacking".
Targeting and Non-Targeting
Oh how I hate the confusion that surrounds this one. Currently my answer is simple: if an effect targets it will include the word "select", if it does not then it doesn't target. Of course this makes my effect text for cards like Sakuretsu Armor a bit odd: "Activate only when an opponent's monster attacks. Select the attacking monster. Destroy it."
"Activate only" = condition not effect
Not certain if this ruling already exists, but "Activate only" is a condition and not an effect. Whatever comes AFTER the "Activate only" line is the effect proper. Using the Sakuretsu Armor example from above:
Condition: "Activate only when an opponent's monster attacks."
Activation: "Select the attacking monster."
Resolution: "Destroy it."
I want to encourage these more and give them all their own styles and quirks. Advantages and disadvantages over other types that won't come down to weakness and resistance, but merely inherent features that happen to work well against certain Attribute/Type/Archtypes. Some already do, and that is good, but many are superior and inferior to others.
Basically getting rid of as many of them as possible, perhaps by adding severe costs to their effects or, and I'd honestly prefer this, redistributing them as Attribute/Type/Archtype support. I want the game to be less about people having the same 10+ or whatever staples, plus their top tier deck cards and more about people building decks that suit them more.
An idea I've considered for my alternate game is doing away completely with Polymerization, and you simply need the correct cards in your hand required to fuse, but cards that fuse monsters in the Graveyard, Deck, etc will remain. So to fuse Blue-Eyes Ultimate Dragon you just need the former in your Extra Deck and three Blue-Eyes on the field or in your hand. I would possibly cut down on Fusion substitutes to compensate.
Ritual monsters have always been amongst the worst Types to be used and supported. I've considered doing away Ritual Spells and simply requiring you to discard (and I'm also considering remove from play) cards on the field or in your hand whose level equals or exceeds the amount on the Ritual Monster card. I think that this would at least make Ritual Monster more usable.
Union Monsters will be covered in the rulebook and they will all share the same basic effect. What monsters they can be equipped to will be on the cards themselves along with what effects they give those cards.
These will no longer be represented by the overly lengthy text and will instead use the following text: "This card inflicts Piercing damage." What piercing damage is, like many other effects, can be covered in the rulebook.
I have also considered using English over American English, perhaps to help distinguish the game from the one it is based off and make it more personal, but currently I am not doing this.
Please note that this is NOT me having a go at the creator nor Konami. It is just my personal take on the game and is intended to go side-by-side with it. Please remember: I'm doing this for FUN.
There is also a lot more I could cover as well as attempting to show what progress has been made so far, but I'll leave that for now.
- The Contents was added automatically by the site. I'm glad though, since it helps a bit. BlueEyesWhiteDragon (talk • contribs) 13:59, May 5, 2011 (UTC)
Sorry if I'm "stealing" your forum, but here are some ideas for less-powerful cards you may like.
As you may know, certain cards dominated the game from time to time. Perhaps a miniaturized version would have been better:
Lightsworn Dragon of the Judgment:
- Level 8
- This card cannot be Normal Summoned or Set. This card cannot be Special Summoned except by having at least 6 Lightsworn monsters with different names in your graveyard. Once per turn, you can pay 1000 life points to destroy all other cards you control. Then, destroy a number of cards your opponent controls up to the amount of cards sent to your graveyard by this effect. During each of your End Phases, send the top 4 cards of your deck to the graveyard.
Why its a lot more balanced: It's harder to summon. It also requires a greater sacrifice-if you get rid of a lot more of your cards you can get rid of a lot of your opponent's cards. It's still a 3000 attacker but you lose a lot of that "insta-advantage".
Dark Armed Dragon Level 5:
- Level 5
- This card cannot be Normal Summoned or Set. This card cannot be Special Summoned except by having exactly three DARK monsters in your graveyard. Up to twice per turn, you can remove from play one DARK monster in your graveyard to destroy one card on the field. This card cannot attack the turn that you activate this effect.
Why its a lot more balanced: You can only use its turn up to twice instead of three times per turn and it can't attack. It's also a lot weaker meaning that it probably wouldn't last very long. It also retains the previous weakness of an exact quantity necessary for its summon.
- Level 4
- Once per turn, you can tribute any number of monsters you control then Special Summon an equal amount of Level 4 or lower Beast-type monsters (except for "Salvage Cat") from your deck or graveyard. If you Special Summon more than one Beast-type monster from your deck, destroy this card and you take 2000 points of damage.
Why its a lot more balanced: You have to tribute an equal number of monsters-yes, you can convert Tuners into non-Tuners and vice-versa and you get a search but it's much less powerful. You can only Special Summon one Beast-type monster from your deck (so you may need a bit of graveyard set up first. Makyura the Reckless:
- Level 4
- You can activate trap cards from your hand on the turn that this card in your graveyard is removed from play. While in your graveyard, this card can only be removed from play by the effects of Spell cards.
Why its a lot more balanced: Very limited removal (Soul Release) instead of incredibly easy activation.
Note: I've removed the card images and will just post just the effects unless someone requests otherwise.
I'd prefer to fix the cards themselves instead of making too many replacements. Let me try sharing an example:
- Magic Cylinder
- Activate only when an opponent's monster attacks. Select the attacking monster. Negate that attack and inflict damage to your opponent equal to the attacking monster's original ATK.
My modified version of Magic Cylinder. I believe that this card has been limited and semi-limited at points (don't hold me to that) because of it being reasonably splashable. My version actually more closely resembles the version used in the animé which I believe required Yugi to have a "magician" monster. That's a little too exact for my taste so I've gone for it being general Spellcaster support.
- Changed the effect so that it no longer needs a Spellcaster-Type monster, but only inflicts the original attack of the attacking monster instead. Also, I seem to have forgotten to add in whether the effect targets or not. I believe that it does since it stops a single attack and I've added in the fact that it does so.
And the following is an example of Attribute support as an alternative to Monster Reborn:
- Sword of Dark Renewal
- Remove from play 1 DARK monster from your hand. Special Summon 1 DARK monster from your Graveyard.
I rather like the idea of DARK Attribute monsters being associated with remove effects. Technically this would be considered a bad card, but in a good DARK deck it could be used quite effectively. Generally Attribute support will be more limited or costly than Type or Archtype.
And finally for now, and more in keeping with your example of toning down existing cards, I had a go at adapting the famous Crush Card Virus:
- Crush Card Virus
- Activate only when a face-up DARK monster with 1000 or less ATK you control is destroyed by battle. Check all monsters your opponent controls and your opponent's hand. Destroy all monsters with 1500 or more ATK.
Could you post their effects here? Also, on that note, I'm not sure that Magic Cylinder needs changing. A weaker version (doesn't negate the attack and only deals the damage that you would take) exists as well as Mirage Tube which is an even less potent version.BobaFett2 (talk)
- In response to you asking if I could post their effects here, do you mean all of the cards I have modified or just the examples I've posted? If it is the former, I warn you that there are a LOT. BlueEyesWhiteDragon (talk • contribs) 15:10, May 9, 2011 (UTC)
Why bother changing the game? your making it faster but more broken with fusions and rituals having similar summoning conditions might as well just say fuck it and give em all one name and make it a single kind of card the games fine as it is its up to the player to LRN2YUGIOH or notRaiga (talk • contribs) 18:32, May 6, 2011 (UTC)
- I knew that I'd get a response like this at some point no matter how carefully I structured my posts. Either way I already covered this when I created the thread: "Please note that this is NOT me having a go at the creator nor Konami. It is just my personal take on the game and is intended to go side-by-side with it. Please remember: I'm doing this for FUN." BlueEyesWhiteDragon (talk • contribs) 15:10, May 9, 2011 (UTC)
No need to be rude about a simple creative project. It's not as if he doesn't like the game itself...and even if he didn't, there's nothing wrong with trying to make your own variations.BobaFett2 (talk)
Althouhg i think the game mechanics, although complicated at points are all good ones.
I do agree about nerfing the broken cards. Like DAD wouldn't be soo good if he had a once per turn thing, or if he only had like 1500 ATK. Thats how it was in the old days. The cards with the better effects, like Don Zaloog or Victory Viper XX03 had lower ATK, having a huuge beatstick with a really powerful effect makes the game unbalanced.Trak0don (talk • contribs) 16:48, May 7, 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you. It's not even that difficult really. An example is Raigeki which I've redesigned as a Thunder-Type support card with the following effects:
- Activate only while you control 2 or more face-up Thunder-Type monsters. Destroy all monsters your opponent controls.
- I'm not entirely sure if two monsters is too low, but Thunder-Types don't seem all that well supported so I think that it balances out well. BlueEyesWhiteDragon (talk • contribs) 15:26, May 9, 2011 (UTC)
- Could you tone down the sarcasm please? I'm aware of those archtypes, I meant that the Type doesn't appear to have many specific Spell or Trap support types. Also its support appears to be more limited when compared to other Types.
- I've given up on sharing the project now so I probably won't be updating this thread any further. I find it ironic that for a game based on playing with other people I've had more fun with it by myself. Doesn't help that people are largely unhelpful. Ah well, that's what I get for actually trying to socialise. I should really know better by now. I just wish I hadn't wasted so much time and energy thinking that people actually might be friendly and helpful. Thanks to those who did try to help though. All two of you, I think. I'd say it has been fun, but honestly it really hasn't. BlueEyesWhiteDragon (talk • contribs) 09:06, May 26, 2011 (UTC)