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Hello Everyone! :)
Firstly, I would like to apologize for mispelling the word "unacceptable" (I used "Inaccepatable" instead).
Secondly, I really think that "Cyber-Stein" should become "Limited" in the next "Ban List" because of the following "unrestricted" cards are available to balance "Cyber-Stein" out. The March 1rst 2011 Ban list permits this; these cards are...
(1) "Battle Fader" is unrestricted, need I say more?
(2) "Scrap Iron Scarecrow" is unrestricted, need I say more?
(3) "Starlight Road" is unrestricted, need I say more?
(4) "Stardust Dragon" is unrestricted, need I say more?
(5) "Spirit Reaper" is now usable at "2".
(6) "Magic Cylinder" is usable at "2"
Well, what do you guys think?
As always, thank you very much for your assistance regarding this matter, I really appreciate them! :)
(1 & 5) Fair Point, But C-Stein is still a bit too broken, even with these.
(2 & 6) No one runs it.
(3 & 4) How does this stop Cyber-Stein?
- For your misspell, it's alright since you had never know how it was at that time, so I forgive you for now. Battle Fader removed itself if it had use the power to special summon in the attack's way, so it's way it's unlimited/unrestricted. Scrap Iron Scarecrow can be good trap, but it's weakness is to revealing it location - MST, Dust Tornado, etc can get rid of it after few times of it revealing easily; therefore it stay unlimited as it only take up your S/T slot space. Starlight Road only need 2 or more cards destruction on the field in order to activate, therefore it's not need to be limited or shit, included it only made Stardust Dragon feel sorry for coming and leave on next destruction, never return once more. Spirit Reaper has target weakness, so he could destroy himself once he's being point at, Marshmallon is the reason why it is limited - 1000 damage and not dead by a simple punch. Magic Cylinder would just become lesser due to bunch of Life Point secure cards all over the place, like Black Rose Dragon, that it can easily counter in now time than in the past where it had first release.
Well, Cyber-Stein is still broken at this minute - due to Field clean (Giant Trunade), ATK power-up (Megamorph), and massive size monster (Blue-Eyes Ultimate Dragon) so he's still ban at this minute, I am sorry. --FredCat 19:21, June 5, 2011 (UTC)
One of the other reasons cyber-stein shouldn't be unbanned is because after you've summoned blue eyes ultimate dragon/cyberend dragon, you can then use cyberstein to synchro/xyz summon. Cyber end dragon can be extremly easy to otk with after summoned via cyber-stein,you can use 3 megamorphs, 3 united we stands, 3 mage powers,and 1 limiter to boost it's attack to 8000.Mystical space typhoon , giant trunade seven tools of the bandit/ dark bribe it very easy to otk with because they clear the field of annoying spell or traps that might hinder the otk. Dark hole,lightning vortex can be used to get rid off the opponents monsters.
Basically it's too easy to beat the opponent with cyber-stein, I highly doubt cards like him and chaos emperor dragon envoy of the end will ever be be unbanned , becuase they are just far too powerfull.
- So three votes that Cyber-Stein have to stay ban, I am sorry, "Crazy Tactician". As there are already bunch of explanations about the broken combine that can make your opponent crap their pants from that struck. If you want Cyber-Stein to complete limited (not ban, but not semi-limited nor unlimited), you have to either limited/banned other details of shit cards that we were talking about. Also that can making your opponent upset for not able to play Meta right due to value cards being gone. --FredCat 19:44, June 5, 2011 (UTC)
- Cyber-Stein was a broken card when they first released it, and it's as broken now as it was back then. It will never be unbanned. Magical Scientist, Imperial Order and Chaos Emperor Dragon - Envoy of the End will also never be unbanned. They are far too powerful to be played.--TwoTailedFox (My Talk Page) 20:05, June 5, 2011 (UTC)
- I actually see the reasons why it would be okay to unban it. It is very much so a different environment compared to when Cyber-Stein actually had a chance to OTK, back when it became banned. Some of the things you've mentioned do have a chance to stop Cyber-Stein, but you forgot the most important and popular one - Solemn Warning. Fancy paying 5000 Life Points, only to have Cyber-Stein negated and destroyed for a mere 2000 Life Points. Not only that, but Traps are everywhere these days. Huge monsters just don't stand much of a chance to win by themselves like they did back then. Not only that, but almost every deck runs Solemn Warning/Judgment these days. To draw into Cyber-Stein after having used even 1 of these other cards would leave you at such low Life Points that it wouldn't be worth it to summon a Level 10 4000 ATK beatstick, or just make Cyber-Stein a dead draw altogether. I'm sure there are ways to break it, potentially, in the new environment, but the old threats just aren't relevant anymore. Cyber-Stein could very well come off the Ban List with little repercussion, but I think it'd be a pretty random thing to come off and chances are still low.--YamiWheeler (talk • contribs) 20:19, June 5, 2011 (UTC)
- I agreed with you, Founder, as they can ever help the player who using them to finish their opponents quickly. As for Cyber-Stein, it created a OTK with either Cyber End or Ultimate Dragon. For Magical Scientist, again - like Stein bro, can created a OTK/FTK if combined right (though sadly, Last Will is still ban at that point). For Imperial Order, it's single turn no Spell Card, then you're free to spamming Spell Card if you not pay - plus it can help with Megamorph when coming to certain point of the sinister result. Chaos Emperor Dragon can finish opponent off if you planned it right, by make your opponent's LP low enough to explode in his face, but as long as you get at least more than 1000 Life Points in order to do the blast, though it would required for Yata-Lock, which never coming to Advanced Format. --FredCat 20:22, June 5, 2011 (UTC)
I'm actually still really curious why the OP listed Stardust and Starlight as reasons why Stein should be Limited. Anyone feel like attempting to explain?ChaoticCrosswinds (talk • contribs) 20:43, June 5, 2011 (UTC)
Sorry for being unclear as to why "Starlight Road" and "Stardust Dragon" are reasons to bring "Cyber-Stein" to the "Limited" list. Here is the reason why...
"Starlight Road" = It stops the massive field clearing effects of "Lightning Vortex", "Dark Hole" etc... to set up the OTK.
"Stardust Dragon" = He can prevent the destruction of a card on the field that could potentially cause problems for the OTK.
Gentlemen, I didn't want to cause a problem by posting this query, I was just curious to what you guys thought. Please forgive me if anyone got upset by this question.
Also, these cards would make "Cyber-Stein" and whatever fusion monster that was summoned useless...
(2) Negate Attack
(3) Threatening Roar
(5) Hammer Shot
(6) Draining Shield
(7) Adhesion Trap Hole
(8) Enchanted Javelin
(9) Mirror Force
(10) Torrential Tribute
(11) Solemn Warning
(12) Sonic Chick
(13) Winged Kuriboh
(16) Yomi Ship
(17) Spirit Reaper
(18) Man-Eater Bug
(20) Compulsory Evacuation Device
(21) Sakuretsu Armor
(22) Widespread Ruin
(23) Magic Cylinder
(24) Fusion Devourer
(25) Spellbinding Circle
(26) Shadow Spell
Once again, I didn't want to start a problem here, sorry guys!
I think you are all missing the point, OTK's are not the only problem. I can just gain the LP back. I can stop all your plays. In the right deck, I can Draw and and have limitless attack. And finaly, i can reset your filed every now and again. Besides, these augments suck. By that logic, the WHOLE ban list is pointless, and should be ditched, but don't worry, you still have all those cool cards to save you right? Don't be dumb.--Helix-king (talk • contribs) 06:29, June 6, 2011 (UTC)
Firstly, I am really sorry to have gotten on your nerves "Helix-king", this was never my intention.
Secondly, as for the WHOLE ban list being pointless, it isn't because it is designed to keep the dueling field fair & the game interesting. I am not out to wipe out the ban list and throw the advanced format into chaos.
Thirdly, the reason that I brought this up is because "Monster Reborn" got off the ban list into "Limited" so I kind of figured that the slim chance of "Cyber-Stein" coming back would be there. In the same respect, "Dark Hole" and "Monster Reborn" should return to the "Forbidden" also because they are worst offenders than "Cyber-Stein".
Finally, I would like to put an end to this topic becuase it is clearly causing problems as this was the last thing that I wanted to do. Like I said before, I just wanted to ask a question on what you guys thought about this topic. I sincerely apologize to anyone else who got "upset" by this question. As of this point, this discussion is closed.
Helix-King, every one of those fusion monsters you mentioned cannot be SP with cyber Stein. Second, there are many cards that can stop the cyber stein. (warning, veiler etc.)
I can't see the limiting of cyber stein changing the flow of the game at all. maybe some people will run it in a deck but thats a huge price to pay. ESPECIALLY with people beginning to run bottomless trap hole, lets see you summon cyberstean, pay 5000 and then get bottomlessed. nice.
The discussion that was happening on the message board was not too heated. Fredcat, you don't need to be so aggressive with your points or use profanities, all it does is make us respect your opinion less.
I think this is a very interesting topic and I am interested to hear some more peoples opinions on it.184.108.40.206 (talk) 23:35, June 6, 2011 (UTC)
- Good eyes, unregistered user, but what did I doing on my latter comments, was just for humor sense. But no offense if I made it sound aggressive. --FredCat 23:37, June 6, 2011 (UTC)
- You guys need to calm down. But, when you think about it, every long term card on the banlist has a reason for being there, Cyber's reason is it that it foreshadows an instant OTK. And the bottom line is that saying there are a bunch of cards to counter 1 card is unfeasible, because it is theoretical, not every one is going to have any given card at any given time. --Dark Ace SP™ (Talk) 00:58, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
Every card that has its own counter card needs to be unbanned. Cyber-Stein is powerful but can be stopped with the right card. I personally feel the ban list needs to be thrown out. No card should be banned. Eery card has a weakness. There is no super Spell, Trap or Monster. Garchomp87 (talk • contribs) 04:36, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
Cyber-Stein is very powerful. Too powerful. Rule of thumb: an FTK with only two cards is too powerful. Even if it's negatable, there are quite a few ways to set up the field for Stein and win.BobaFett2 (talk)
Cards that are specifically designed to counter one paticular card are usually far too situational. So cards like jar robber should only be side decked.Also FTK/OTK decks usally use cards like mystical space typhoon , giant trunade and dark bribe to negate somthing than might negate themselves.
Stay Banned imo, because too many cards out there that would lock opponent to be set up for the otk, like dark armed, judgement, along with trunade, trap stun, etc. Summon Cyber end and you won't need a direct attack, just pierce for enough. Also, idk if anyone corrected this but Solemn Judgement will not negate Cyber-stein effect, only Warning, therefore, you have only two available generic negate summons cards unless I have missed some.Yuseiisagod (talk • contribs) 13:56, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
- I know, but if you would waste half your life before your opponent pays the 5000 on a 700 attack monster place another dark onster into the grave for possible Chaos or DaD, then that's unwise. However, if either way you are about to lose the game, then you are stuck between a rock and a hard place.Yuseiisagod (talk • contribs) 15:29, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
- Again, don't forget that many activate cards I have mentioned earlier; "Giant Trunade", "Heavy Storm" (though it's current ban too), "Dark Hole" (before summon Cyber-Stein), "Megamorph", or "Limiter Removal" (if you summoned Cyber-End Dragon instead) would do the most of work, not just Cyber-Stein himself. --FredCat 23:35, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
Am I the only one who's brain turns to mush after reading one of Fred's posts? 220.127.116.11 (talk) 00:13, June 8, 2011 (UTC)
- Oh lol, sorry about my bad grammar, like Helix once said, it's my second language. Just ask Delta-Neos or Dinoguy1000 if you sure have hard time to read my sentence - they usually understand me better. --FredCat 02:12, June 8, 2011 (UTC)
Should still be banned
I believe that cyber-stein was banned because of a FTK. Use DNA Surgery on it, change it to psychic type, use telekinetic charging cell on it, then laugh at your opponet wo will get shut down (Naturia exterio), Pierced to death (Cyber end dragon) or just plain beat the S*** out of them.( BTW, this strategy DOES work, I did it on over the nexus). now, if he had the effect"the monster is sent to the graveyard at the end of the turn" he'd be much more fairThe Shadow Monarch 125 (talk • contribs) 23:59, June 9, 2011 (UTC)
- That still proof my counter-comment up above... Cyber-Stein's still broken ever nowday. --FredCat 18:43, March 5, 2012 (UTC)