Forum:September 2010 Forbidden & Limited Lists

Banned:
 * Heavy Storm
 * Brain Control
 * Substitoad
 * Rescue Cat

Limited:
 * Monster Reborn
 * Dark Hole
 * Black Whirlwind
 * Royal Oppression
 * Infernity Launcher
 * Trishula, Dragon of the Ice Barrier

Semi-Limited:
 * Mystical Space Typhoon
 * Chaos Sorcerer
 * Snipe Hunter
 * Ojama Trio
 * Magic Cylinder

Unlimited:
 * Black Rose Dragon
 * Goblin Zombie
 * Cyber Dragon
 * Treeborn Frog
 * Royal Decree
 * United We Stand

http://www.yuginewz.com/2010/08/yu-gi-oh-september-1st-2010-banlist_13.html http://manjyomethunder.twoday.net/topics/Bannlists/

I lol 69.181.56.39 (talk) 08:12, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

Should we keep this thread for further discussion of this banlist? Anyway, I'm not really sure what Konami's trying to pull here. Probably introduce much more monster destruction since in the current day, Effect Monsters are king. I can see that they're trying out Magic Cylinder at 2 to give people a better chance at turning a potential OTK (*coughCydracough*) on themselves. All this nuking is likely to result in more people using Starlight Road to protect themselves. But who knows. Now we just need to sit tight for a week and see what happens. --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 09:09, August 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * Infernity and Frog have only about 10 days to laugh. ^_^ Wynnda (talk • contribs) 12:53, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

wow I didnt expect this monster reborn and dark hole at 1 and cyber dragon treeborn and black rose at 3 Is konami insane or something?!? well at least they banned the cat


 * How did I know all the other banlists were fake? Well, they didn't have Trish. This has Trish, therefore REAL!
 * However, why Pot of Greederosity wasn't hit, I'm not too sure about. It was a favourite in the prediction list. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 13:10, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

SAD LIST
What was Konami thinking. I understand Brain Control and Rescue Cat, but Heavy Storm? And on top of that they bring back Dark Hole. And happened to all the Lightsworn stuff and Mezuki? At least we have two Mystical Space Typhoon. X-Sabers may rule for another format, but we'll see.

--173.2.33.70 (talk) 13:24, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

Brain Control?! WHY?! What am supposed to use instead in my Macro Monarchs deck? Skullvarnish (talk • contribs) 15:42, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

Dark Hole does make a whole lot of sense when you think about, though, especially with MST going to two. The addition of Dark Hole to Lightening Vortex and Mirror Force AND bringing Black Rose Dragon to three makes for a ton of monster destruction, which means people are more likely to run Starlight Road. They gave us another MST likely for the specific purpose of countering your opponent's Star Road, or at least sneaking around the protection it provides. This balances out decently with banning Heavy Storm. As it would have been made useless by so many Star Roads anyway, they traded it for another MST to give us the better Spell and Trap destruction for this new format they're trying. As for Monster Reborn, I suppose they just thought a little more Special Summoning from the grave all around would help balance the added monster destruction. I'm quite impressed by Konami's tactfulness, going on the assumption that this is the real list. --Mirage --173.57.29.211 (talk) 16:43, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

I don't know about y'all, but...

DARK HOLE AND MONSTER REBORN!!!! YES I HAVE NOT PLAYED THOSE CARDS IN LIKE 2 YEARS!!!! WOOOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

--Drew-Gi-Oh! (talk) 17:43, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

- 	Woooooooooooowwwwwww..... If this is the rel Banlist (I'll believe when its officially put out), then wow. This changes things. Cat was hit, Infernity hit (yay!), Frogs hit, and Trishula hit. With Heavy Storm gone, and MST at two, and with Dark Hole and Snipe Hunter went down, Destruction just got its head turned upside down. Starlight Road just earned itself another copy in my deck, along with another Stardust. I think they banned Heavy so they could Limit Dark Hole because Hole + Storm = evil. Monster Reborn is interesting, there goes my Call of the Haunted. In this next format I predict...X-Sabers (not hit at all, maybe when the OCG experences our exclusives), Monarchs (3 Treeborn should make them happy), Chimaratech OTK (Cyber at 3 is kinda wrong), Blackwings (Whirlwind wasn't too bad of a hit), something that revolves around Black Rose (Debris-Hime, Plants or something), mayyybe Twilight (Chaos at 2 now), and LOTS OF NUKING AND STARLIGHT ROAD!!! of course, assuming this is real...--BassNettoHikari2 (talk • contribs) 18:07, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

Sign your posts, please. I really believe that they're trying to bring plants and other things up, and by hurting Frogs and Sabers, I think they really helped the meta. Now there's going to be 3x more destruction, Drew likey! --Drew-Gi-Oh! (talk) 18:04, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry 'bout that, forgot to hit the button, it is signed now. Sabers aren't really hit, Rescue Cat was just a bonus--BassNettoHikari2 (talk • contribs) 18:07, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

Royal Oppression to 1? Lame. Looks like I have to obtain a second Mystical Space Typhoon now though, I don't know anyone with more than one... --Hozu (talk • contribs) 18:14, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

If this would be the new list, I could live with it. In an other topic, they were talking about sirocco limited and kalut semi!!! Anyway, I didn't see the bannning of Heavy Storm, and Brain Control coming. I wait till the official list. Jens (talk • contribs) 18:53, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

I can see Brain Control but not Heavy Storm. But they had to kill Heavy Storm if they were to ever bring back Dark Hole. --Drew-Gi-Oh! (talk) 20:08, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

Issues with List
IMO here are the biggest problems with the list:


 * Heavy Storm getting banned wasn't necessary IMO. It was one of the cards that kept multi-setting in check, and while multi-setting still isn't a good idea we now have to rely mostly on Monster effects to disrupt it. Mystical Space Typhoon to two doesn't really offset a ban to Heavy.
 * Royal Oppression getting limited was a pretty big mistake too. I realize Konami wants to push Divine Warning, but oppression was perhaps the best counter to the rampant special summoning that we see today. There was nothing wrong with this card at two or even three IMO.
 * Monster Reborn coming back. You get rid of one oppression, then bring back one of the most "HERP DERP I have game!" cards in existence? Good job on failing Konami.
 * Dark Hole coming back. Dark Hole is my favorite card, but it deserves no place in the game. Putting Torrential Tribute to two makes much more sense because it's slower, and requires more skill. Now we're going to have people go Dark Hole into an OTK. Don't forget that this helps out Machine Emperors greatly, especially Grannel.
 * Black Rose Dragon hitting the unlimited section. BRD was limited because it's an entire field nuke at your disposal, and it's quite easy to make. SalvoDAD, Debris Dragon/Dandylion, X-Sabers, etc. all make this synchro too easy summon, and it takes no skill in nuking an entire field when you are at a disadvantage.

As of right now I see the top decks being (in no particular order) Machina Gadgets, Herald of Perfection, SalvoDAD, Gladiator Beasts (it's a shame they didn't limit Gladiator Beast War Chariot), X-Sabers (if the TCG gets the same list), and Quickdraw. What do you all think of the list? --Sub (Talk | Contribs) 21:24, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

Overall, epic WIN! This has got to be the best list we've had in a loooooong time. Pros and cons with this list, as with ALL lists, but I think the Pros far out-weigh the cons.


 * 1. Heavy Storm- I Both like and dislike this. It is a far stretch when Heavy nukes an entire backfield against a deck that relies on one, as it is too easy with no cost. However, with Starlight Road out and unlimited, there was an answer to this, so it probably wasn't ban-worthy. I would have preferred that they hit Cold Wave instead.
 * 2. Rescue Cat- I think most people saw this coming. Glads no longer have a card that provides instantaneous large advantages, and X-Sabers get hit big time with this.
 * 3. Substitoad- Frog OTK was too crazy and consistent for this to stay around. Frog Monarch was also a problem. Although Frog OTK is probably dead now, frog monarch can kind of still work, though it obviously won't be as potent as it was.
 * 4. Brain Control- Thank goodness they finally got rid of this. 800 Life Points to change the course of a game, and possibly an entire match? Definitely not that much of a cost. This needed to go.
 * 5.Infernity Launcher- Thank goodness Konami got this right and didn't limit Archfiend instead. Infernities can still fight, especially with street patrol out in TCG now, but they are not much of an OTK threat anymore.
 * 6. Monster Reborn- I dunno about this one... They took away Brain Control and decided to give us an even bigger game changer in it's place. Imo, they should've kept this where it was on the banlist.
 * 7. Dark Hole- this format just became a lot faster thanks to this card, MR, and 3 Black Roses coming back all at the same time. Be prepared to start running multiple starlights in your main/side deck.
 * 8. Black Whirlwind- I don't really have a problem with this, I just wonder why... It's not like Blackwings were very dangerous in the last format, and this pretty much guarantees that blackwings won't challenge for tier 1 status unless they receive excellent support soon.
 * 9. Royal Oppression- With Solemn Warning out, it's definitely time that Oppression got hit to 1. Regardless of whether or not Warning is not as effective in stopping mass special summoning decks, 800 to stop virtually any special summon (not in Damage cal, of course) is almost insanely powerful, especially when run in gadgets or other decks that never or almost never special summon. Too strong once someone uses it when they've already gotten their field set-up. This to 1 pretty much makes it a staple.
 * 10. Trishula- Of course, like Brionac, this needs to go to 1. Way too broken, especially with decks that can bring 1 or even more of this out first turn.
 * 11. MST- Of course, with Heavy being banned, this was going to be upped. I like this a lot, though with heavy banned, I wish they had this at 3.
 * 12. Chaos Sorcerer- Slowly but surely, it seems that Chaos decks have been beginning to creep back into playable status over the past 2 years. While BLS Envoy didn't return (I know, probably won't happen, but it should), this being brought back to 2 where it belongs is a nice touch. Expect to see a lot of this card this format.
 * 13. Snipe Hunter- Not too happy with this. Doesn't really take much skill to play, and can pop any card by discarding and relying on a not so risky dice roll. Should've stayed at 1.
 * 14. Ojama Trio- So Ojama OTK and field lock decks are now possible again. Not that either will be particularly good, but still.
 * 15. Magic Cylinder- Helps Burn decks now that they can survive (kinda) with Heavy gone. Also turns potential Chimeratech or big attack otks back at the opponent and also punishes decks that pay lots of life points.
 * 16. Black Rose Dragon- Insane. I love it, but at the same time, with dandywarrior running around and getting 2 more BRDs to use at their disposal on TOP of getting Dark Hole.... Start stocking up on Starlights now.
 * 17. Goblin Zombie- Not that this tremendously helps zombies, but they are that much more viable now with this at 3 and Monster Reborn back.
 * 18. Cyber Dragon- Finally, this is back where it should be. I personally like this, though I know many don't. Easy synchro/tribute material or just simple beatdown power. Instant 2100 attacker. Chimeratech Fortress dragon FTW
 * 19. Treeborn Frog- I don't think this really helps frogs out all THAT much, but I guess they had to do something with Substitoad being banned.
 * 20. Royal Decree- Only thing I don't like about this is that Heralds will be extremely hard to deal with now. Royal decree shuts down the 1 current way to down them once they hit the field which would be counter traps, and 3 of these pretty much guarantees that they will have one to set early.
 * 21. United We Stand- I think this helps keep machines alive, and also makes beatdown decks semi-possible again.

Top Decks early this format should pretty much be Dandywarrior, Gladiators and Heralds, with Naturias and Scraps coming on late once Starstrike Blast arrives. SalvoDad can live a bit, but I don't see it winning any YCS, and don't think it will top all that much if it does at all. X Sabers will kind of compete, but not having rescue cat is going to hurt a bit, and it takes that extra bit of firepower they had that kept them on top away from them. Though they may not top, expect to see competitive zombie builds more frequently. --Phoenix25 (talk • contribs) 16:55, August 19, 2010 (UTC)98.195.180.222 (talk) 21:56, August 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * ^ I edited your post because it was just a wall of text before =\. --Sub (Talk | Contribs) 23:08, August 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * Somehow Konami had the wonderful idea of chucking at us:


 * 1) Reborn and Call on the same list. Absolutely ridiculous, not to mention how game-changing a Reborn is.
 * 2) Dark Hole back on the list when we already have Torrential.
 * 3) Eating up Heavy Storm. I guess they decided everyone apparently ran Hyunlei or something. Trunade cannot fill the niche Heavy left behind.
 * As for the rest, we probably just have to wait and see. Ascriptmaster (talk • contribs) 04:16, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

Substitoad being banned won't effect Frognarchs as much as unlimiting Treeborn Frog will, and the frog otk was the result of duelists abusing Mass Driver NOT FrogtheJam (talk • contribs) 17:08, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

why?
I can understand all the stuff they have just banned and limited...except Dark Hole..... the only reason I could think of this is because Dark Hole is a suckers target for Starlight Road. but then again, if you have Giant Trunade and Dark hole in your hand...its safe to say you can change the whole damn game around. i figure that this is going to be an interesting year but I wouldnt worry. oh and since Monster Reborn is back in play, this might mean a comeback in Zombies (doubtful)or this could be a great time to pick up those Gravekeepers and tell them what for. this is at least what I see on this list. if anyone would like to point out my complete stupidity please don't hesitate. I like being corrected on personal opinions. does anyone agree with my "insight". because I am about as confused as the other guy about this change in the banned list.

So you want to be corrected? How about I correct you with signing your posts, okay? Though you're right with the Dark Hole + Giant Trunade part. COuld mean some nasty FTK/OTKs. I don't know what you mean by the Gravekeeper's, though. It's not like there's going to be an entire Deck based around it. --Drew-Gi-Oh! (talk) 04:15, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

Machines
I think Cyber Machina could be intense this time. The search and abilities of machina, the aggro and draw power of cyber, and increase the speed with draw spells. You can splash in Wisel really well if we get it. Even with overload fusion at 1, theres still future fusion and power bond. You can even throw in oilman for a draw boost. Rollout to support the unions. If you dont include solidarity you can even run dekoichi and black salvo to nuke with black rose dragon. --Joshuamaru (talk • contribs) 05:29, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

I like this list lot
I think everything was hit just right. I'm already starting to play with this format; Dark Hole'd 3 Frogs on my opponent's field, which of course he deserved for putting such on the field. Monster Reborn. Oh man, Monster Reborn. This banlist REALLY is going to make things fun, although I do believe Frognarchs and X-Sabers will stay at Tier 1. I mean, now that Substitoad's out, it's time for his handy comrad to be the star of speeding the deck: Swap Frooog.--- Yugioh DED ( talk  •  contribs ) 07:08, August 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * Limiting Dark Hole and MR are bad choices. Gladiator Beasts, X-Sabers, Heralds, Gadgets, Anti Meta are still in action. The rest of the decks (not including any new Archetypes) are suffering. "Synchro Cat" decks will now be called "Synchro" decks, for obvious reasons. Beasts (inc. Naturia) should still work without Cat. Frogs got OWNED! No Brain Control, No Heavy is pure WIN! Fortune Lady decks gained quite a lot in this list (e.g. Cydra, Sorc, MR, Dark Hole, MST, -Oppression). -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 07:23, August 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * Frogs most in fact DO NOT get owned...minus the "Frog"TK haha....okayanyways, Swap Frog is now the new leader of starting the flow of a Frognarch deck. I actually was just dueling my brother, who uses Frognarchs, and it still does really good. Fishborg Blaster isn't the worst choice for the deck, but then that means people will start freaking out that they need an Extra Deck for their Frognarchs. Monster Reborn is a bad move, ESPECIALLY WITH THE RANDOM UNLIMITED BRD...AND DARK HOLE! Yes, Limiting Heavy is pure win. Oh my goodness, now I can....now I can....use my spells and traps O______O, thought I'd never see that day.--- Yugioh DED ( talk  •  contribs ) 07:43, August 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * I friggin' agree with ya DED, finally our Spells and Traps are safe to see another day... except when put against Giant Trunade and all that stuff, but still, we've got our Spell/Trap Zone more safer than how it was in the previous/current-ish format. Only thing that's not safe is the Unlimited Black Rose Dragon......... Ouch. Raining Stars (talk • contribs) 13:30, August 19, 2010 (UTC) ((Damnit, forgot to sign!))


 * Although with Heavy gone, and the only main S/T Removal being Giant Trunade, double MST, and the slower Dust Tornado, my Crystal Beast Deck looks like it could be doing a bit better, Dark Hole works nice for it too...--BassNettoHikari2 (talk • contribs) 18:09, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

I know what you mean. I'm actually using more continuous traps, and I'm not afraid to set 3 or Traps on my first turn. I think they're releasing more S/T / easing up on certain removal cards. --Drew-Gi-Oh! (talk) 05:36, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

I'm sad
That they are still limiting D-Draw. From what it seems like none of the top decks are using it. I'm fine with Allure of Darkness at one Because it is way more abusable then D-Draw, but these lists are killin me. also its been over a year since they limited RotA, they really need to give my warriors a break..... and come out with some more warrior cards..... DestinyWarrior (talk • contribs) 08:13, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

Reborn & Call
Sorry, do Konami not remember how annoying double revival is? When Burial and Call were limited, don't you remember how irritating it was to get rid of an annyoing to kill monster (a modern day example of which would probably be Heraklinos or Armor Master), then to have it revived, use up your remaining cards killing it again and then having it revived again? Seriously, double revival is going to make the two aforementioned cards really, really annoying.

Also, what's the deal with semi-ing Snipe Hunter? I thought we wanted to hit Infernities. and unlimiting Treeborn and Cyber Dragon just made Monarchs rise again. Finally, there is no way Dark Hole should be in over Heavy. Decks which need monsters in the Graveyard (Lightsworns and Zombies, for example) just got a whole lot better. Battlemaniac (talk • contribs) 09:29, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

NO! Not "Heavy Storm"!
"Heavy Storm" on the Forbidden List?! How could they do that?! That is one of my favorite cards to use in a Deck, and it gets banned! What were they thinking?! --1exodiafan1 (talk • contribs) 11:46, August 19, 2010 (UTC)1exodiafan1


 * From what I know, they locked this card to prevent from easily "Stardust Dragon/Assault Mode" combine, as you set two traps - Assault Mode Activate and Starlight Road, then wait a turn, activate Heavy Storm and counter with SLR, summon Stardust Dragon, and lastly, activate the Assault Mode Activate to put the dragon on the field faster than tried to Tuning some random Materials into Stardust Dragon, only being Book'f Moon. That also required less cards; 2 or more Materials (depend on level numbers) and Synchro Monster plus Assault Mode Activate while this combine required only three, well, four (two traps, 1 Synchro Monster, 1 Effect Monster). -- F  red  C  at  T.P. • F.R. • J.R. • W.S. 13:06, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

But it's heavy storm! It's a staple (I think) and is so usefull! I mean, one group may abuse it, but many groups can now abuse the lack of it! In my mind, two mystical space typhoons can't take the place of a heavy storm. Kwame120 (talk • contribs) 20:04, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

Yes, it is definetely the thing that has upset me the most. I use heavy storm in all of my decks. Limited was a good place for him but banned, 2 mst's are not enough to clear all Royal Decrees and other annoying continous spells and traps. And to play not only 2 mst's but also 2 dust tornado's in a deck is just overkill. Before you know it, You get a starting hand with 4 cards that have replaced one single card. And the strangest thing is, they stop s/t destruction, but they unban Dark Hole?!?! Really what were they thinking? Jens (talk • contribs) 09:39, August 28, 2010 (UTC)

Hope for reptilliannes
Maybe with 2 Ojama Trios Reptiliannes will be better. They are one of my favorite kind of decks, even though they were bad. Now one of the most important cards in the deck is semi limited, and Heavy Storm is banned, making it harder to get around those long lasting spells and traps, like Final Attack Orders and Savage Colosseum. With Dark Bribe still at 3, you can further protect those spells and traps. UshiOni (talk • contribs) 18:22, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

I'm content.
There are pro's and cons to this ban list.

Pro's
 * 1. Cold Wave lives for one more day in my GB deck.
 * 2. Dark Hole is finally useful again.
 * 3. Monster Reborn & Call = Don't know what to do with double revival?
 * 4. Infernity Launcher can be a little less scared of my friend's infernity deck.
 * 5. Black Rose Dragon means my plant deck has a better chance now.
 * 6. Royal Oppression means my zombies still have a chance and my anti-meta deck might have died.

Con's
 * 1. Rescue Cat has to say goodbye
 * 2. Brain Control. Should of just stayed limited.
 * 3. Black Whirlwind. What are my odds of this staying on the field with MST semi and DT at 3 and Black Whirlwind is limited to one copy?
 * 4. Magic Cylinder = getting angry when I OTK myself.
 * 5. Cyber Dragon means my friend gets his Cyber Dragon deck back for another day.

Like I said, I'm content with this new ban list. Cards like Dark Hole and Monster Reborn can finally gain some use in my competitve decks. I myself won't be using Debris-Hime and Cyber Dragon, but have a hunch this ban list might have affect them in a good way? Also mad that I have to go get Starlight Road now.

Anyone also mad that they have to get Starlight Road for their decks too? --184.96.231.210 (talk) 07:22, August 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I should probably grab a second, with all this destruction out here--BassNettoHikari2 (talk • contribs) 07:37, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

Banlist is now official, even though we already knew it was going to be... http://www.yugioh-card.com/en/limited/ --Hozu (talk • contribs) 13:00, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

Damn, it is real, but since Trishula isn't out in America yet, we can play around with three of them when they come out--BassNettoHikari2 (talk • contribs) 17:21, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

No, I'm pretty sure we will have to use only one. Skullvarnish (talk • contribs) 17:27, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

No, unless Konami decides to Limit it outside of the Banlists, and it comes out before March (which it might, since HA2 and HA3, are only a couple of months apart), than we will be able to play it at three because it is not on the Banlist, you can look yourself--BassNettoHikari2 (talk • contribs) 18:47, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

We use the same list as the OCG. Konami just doesn't put up the OCG exclusives on the TCG version of the list. Skullvarnish (talk • contribs) 18:53, August 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * Not necessarily, we had Brionac, Dragon of the Ice Barrier at 3 for one whole format before he was limited...I believe Trishula will be at 3 for a format...but it won't matter because Infernity Launcher will be at 1 by then [[User:Goblinpunch787|Goblinpunch787)

Substitoad
Can someone please explain to me why Substitoad was banned? I wouldn't mind it being limited or semi-limited, but from unlimited to banned seems too drastic for me NOT FrogtheJam (talk • contribs) 23:19, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

He doesn't say 'Once per turn'. He's broken beyond belief. Skullvarnish (talk • contribs) 23:23, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

That, and he also has a solid 2000 DEF, making him hard to kill, with an ability that makes other Frogs also unkillable. --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 01:36, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

Think: Substitoad + Dupe Frog + Aegis of the Ocean Dragon Lord = unbreakable lock. Also, think: Swap Frog + Substitoad + Mass Driver + Ronintoadin = FTK. --Drew-Gi-Oh! (talk) 01:43, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

I used both of those. I know how substitoad works. you can only have 3 Aegis of the Ocean Dragon Lords, and I was never a fan of the Mass Driver version of the OTK. In my local metagame, my substitoad rarely lasted longer than a few turns, because of all of the destruction effects used NOT FrogtheJam (talk • contribs) 02:40, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

It's not meant to. That's why they call it "FTK" FIRST Turn Kill. --Drew-Gi-Oh! (talk) 02:47, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

I know why it's called an FTK, because I pulled it off with Witch Doctor of Sparta and Pot of Avarice. I doubt i was the 1st person to think of making a Substitoad burn loop, but people who use it are abusing Mass Driver and Ronintoadin not Substitoad NOT FrogtheJam (talk • contribs) 18:17, August 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * It's called being lazy. Rather than banning Mass Driver and limiting Substitoad (for Frognarchs), they chose to go the easy way out.--YamiWheeler (talk • contribs) 18:47, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

Well said, sir. NOT FrogtheJam (talk • contribs) 18:51, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, if they banned Mass Driver, then Dewloren, Tiger King of the Ice Barrier wouldn't have to be semi'd either. --Drew-Gi-Oh! (talk) 19:08, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

Point of View
Banned:
 * Heavy Storm(abused by many duelists)
 * Brain Control(no comment)
 * Substitoad(if this card was Limited, it is useless, so they banned it)
 * Rescue Cat(Cat Synchro deck finnaly dies)

Limited:
 * Monster Reborn(in exchange for Brain Control, can be negated by Solemn Warning, etc.)
 * Dark Hole(Starlight Road!!!)
 * Black Whirlwind(They slowed-down Blackwing Deck)
 * Royal Oppression(no comment)
 * Infernity Launcher(no more OTK for Infernity)
 * Trishula(No more 3 Trishulas)

Semi-Limited:
 * Mystical Space Typhoon(no comment)
 * Chaos Sorcerer(woooh!!!Chaos Deck!!!)
 * Snipe Hunter(uhm, discard 1 card to Gamble?)
 * Ojama Trio(opponent can use this as Synchro Material)
 * Magic Cylinder(no comment)

Unlimited:
 * Black Rose Dragon(In exchange for Heavy Storm, can be negated by Solemn Warning, etc.)
 * Goblin Zombie(no comment)
 * Cyber Dragon(wooh!!!let the 2100 Beatdown monster be back at 3)
 * Treeborn Frog(No more Substitoad, so no use for you to be in the list)
 * Royal Decree(because many duelists will set many cards because Heavy Storm was banned, here is for you)
 * United We Stand (Morphtronic deck)

Jampong (talk • contribs) 03:22, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

I'll tell you what jampong meant when he said "no comment".
 * Brain Control No more game changing top-decks!
 * Royal Oppression Take that, Herald of Perfection, Gadget Oppression, Naturia Control, and Disaster Dragon.
 * Mystical Space Typhoon Kill the strongest S/T remover besides Harpie's Feather Duster, and what you do you have left?
 * Magic Cylinder Konami doesn't like OTKs you see

--Drew-Gi-Oh! (talk) 03:51, August 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Goblin Zombie


 * Yeah, I can see that Semi'ing Magic Cylinder is 100% Konami being selfish about their hate on OTKs. Future Fusion + Overload Fusion. "Bam, now I attack with my 9000 ATK Chimeratech Overdragon! *Magic Cylinder* "........................" "Sorry man, you shouldn't have disrespected Konami like that."--- Yugioh DED ( talk  •  contribs ) 06:35, August 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * Which is possibly why they let Royal Decree come back to 3. They probably Semi'd Magic Cylinder to counter the clear comeback of Cyber Style, and foresaw that this will result in duelists abusing them for massive damage, particularly with Heavy Storm Limited, and so Decree came back to stop excessive burn being hurled around. Besides, don't we have some ways to nullify or reflect burn damage? --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 09:38, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

How is Substitoad useless at one? NOT FrogtheJam (talk • contribs) 18:21, August 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * It's not "useless" at 1, but what he means is that it can do the same exact thing at 1 if they kept Mass Driver. All that's affected is consistency.--YamiWheeler (talk • contribs) 18:23, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

Oh you meant it would be pointless for konami to limit substitoad since you only need one. Well i'm against Mass Driver because of the Frog FTK. Mass Driver makes that combo a sure thing, not something that has to be set up NOT FrogtheJam (talk • contribs) 18:42, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

Mass Driver should've been banned in Substitoad's place. Mass Driver disrespected Frogs, so it replaces Substitoad, next. Atleast there's still Swap Frog and Ronintoadin. --Drew-Gi-Oh! (talk) 19:10, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

True, but those cards work best with Substitoad's effect to summon frogs NOT FrogtheJam (talk • contribs) 19:14, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I don't get that. They didn't even touch Mass Driver, but Substitoad. I mean, Substitoad down to 1 would slow down OTK//FTKs a lot, and banning Mass Driver is, obviously, is the smart thing to do. Mass Driver has a lot of FTKs/OTKs so, why the hell would they keep the card? If you can get an infinite amount of Summons, Mass Driver will be there, so just get RID OF IT E___E.--- Yugioh DED ( talk  •  contribs ) 02:02, August 22, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, it's incredibly easy to pull off. Here's a simple one: First Turn set Sangan and ultimate Offering and any other traps. Sangan goes boom, adding mysterious puppeteer/gadget/fire princess to your hand. Your turn. normal summon Puppeteer, activate ultimate offering, summon fire princess, then keep on summoning until you get out all 9 gadgets and use the previously summoned ones as tribute for mass driver. Boom OTK. --Drew-Gi-Oh! (talk) 04:23, August 22, 2010 (UTC)

-What I meant from Substitoad being useless if they limit it to 1, is because the deck almost need only 1 to make the loop. So if it is Limited, it'll slow down the deck, but still, it can kill.

Jampong (talk • contribs) 04:52, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

A dream came true.
I was hoping I could get that pesky third copy of Ultimate Offering this list, but reality was far better and far beyond my spectations, giving up Brain Control was such a small prize to get rid of Heavy Storm (I trully despise that card) and get back Monster Reborn and Dark Hole in return. And CAT is dead!!!!, and Blackwings are even slower!!!. No doubt my spirits are going to fare better in this format, specially after Halloween and  Christmas. I'M SO HAPPY!!!!!!!HouseholdCatDeity (talk • contribs) 03:41, August 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * Please don't count on your Christmas card to be a common when it hits TCG.--- Yugioh DED ( talk  •  contribs ) 06:44, August 22, 2010 (UTC)

I'm with DED on this one, Battle Fader in the OCG and so was Solemn Warning and we all saw how that went.Goblinpunch787

I mean it's obvious. Hopefully Konami got too much hate from their mail and decide to listen to us TCGers. Swift Attacking Scarecrow is better than Battle Fader (unless we're talking about Frognarchs). No doubt it'll be at least Ultra/Ultimate.--- Yugioh DED ( talk  •  contribs ) 08:33, August 22, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, it's a drag when they screw up rarities, I hope they don't make it a super rare or ultra rare like they did with Battle Fader, but again starstrike blast is a booster full of shinny synchros and synchro fusions so I hope they will leave the card alone (or at least make it just a rare or a short print), if they want to even the field (and make a profit out of it) they have to make it easy to find, otherwise all they'd be boing would be stuffing retailers pockets with cash.HouseholdCatDeity (talk • contribs) 15:38, August 22, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I know what you mean. I mean, I'm not a big fan of Staple Synchros, but I think it's time they start bringing a little more out, for variety and stuff. Also, I started a discussion on Starstrike Blast on the Forum:General Yu-Gi-Oh! Discussion page. See Forum:Booster Set Discussion:Starstrike Blast.- DED Light ( (Leave Me A Message?) 19:05, August 22, 2010 (UTC)

I wasn't too surprised by the banlist, however Monster Reborn & Dark Hole was a bit unexpected. Ya people bitch about Heavy Storm & Brain Control all the time it really never ends, so now they can shut up since they're banned. To be quite honest, i'm pretty satisfied with new lists, not really mad since i don't use meta decks, maybe Machina, but that wasn't affected at all. But, ya this new format is gonna piss people, but thats all part of yugioh. Automation44 (talk • contribs) 03:43, August 24, 2010 (UTC)Automation44
 * Then you get the other side of the argument now bitching about Brain Control and Heavy Storm getting banned... Really, unless there's a phenomenon where everyone decide that a card is really breaking games in two, Konami'll get flak from at least someone when they make any change. --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 11:11, August 24, 2010 (UTC)

Automation, stop using poor grammar, I'm sure not many people like it, like me. Nobody "bitches" about Heavy Storm and Brain Control. Both come from Structure Decks as commons, so if those people are "bitching", then spend a couple of cents on them huh. I really don't know where you live if the people around you complain about Heavy Storm an Brain Control.--- DED ( (Here's my page of messages and the such) 04:28, August 28, 2010 (UTC)

They were used in just about every Deck before August. I guess you'll never appreciate something 'till it's gone. --Drew-Gi-Oh! (talk) 04:36, August 28, 2010 (UTC)

Besides, I KNOW now that Dust Tornado will be Mained more often. I run three in my DED deck now.--- DED ( (Talk Page!!) 01:25, August 29, 2010 (UTC)