Forum:Approximate name - "approximate" or "unofficial"?

As many of you know, current practice is to tag card pages with unofficial translations of the card's name with Approximate name. However, there have been a couple of occasions that I am aware of where people have taken issue with the template - this appears to always involve the use of the word "approximate". In the first case, argued against the use of the tag English, and in the second, much more recent case,  vented some about needing to use the tag, apparently taking the word "approximation" as an insult to his translations.

To clarify for anyone else who may have an issue with the template's use of "approximation", I would like to point out that this wording was carried over directly from the hardcoded text present on hundreds of card pages before the template was ever created, and I myself don't like it.

Therefore, I want to know if there would be any opposition to changing the wording to read something along the lines of "The ... name given is not official." (if anyone has suggestions for other possible wordings, please feel free to suggest them as well). If not, the names of the template and associated categories will also be updated to use "unofficial" or "not official". I also have plans to create a similar template for unofficial translations of card lore/effects, which I am specifically holding off on until this discussion finishes and any updates necessary are made. 「 ダイノ ガイ 千？！ 」? · Talk⇒Dinoguy1000 01:25, June 18, 2010 (UTC)

Unofficial doesn't fit it. What about Not Approximate? Fallensilence 05:17, June 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm afraid I don't follow. The whole point of the template is to tag those card pages which have one or more names which are unofficial. "Not Approximate" suggests instead that the noted translations are not approximate, or that they are exact or perfect translations - while this may be true in some cases, it's highly unlikely to be even remotely common, due to the inherent subjectiveness in translation and the personal skill level of any given person translating (no offense meant to any such translators reading this, of course). 「 ダイノ ガイ 千？！ 」? · Talk⇒Dinoguy1000 06:11, June 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * Oh well in that case, why unofficial or not official? Is it suppose to be this specific or something? Fallensilence 06:24, June 18, 2010 (UTC)

What I'd suggest is either tagging the official translations as such (official), and/or tagging unofficial translations as unofficial. No need to over-complicate things. We should try and reach a consensus soon, so that we may resume our translations. --Darth Covah (Talk | DeckZone | Binder) 16:17, June 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * Consensus, as in vote? Fallensilence 20:56, June 18, 2010 (UTC)

Dudes this stuff is getting real tiring. Can't we just toss a coin or sth? Anyway, personally i believe "unoficial" is better. Maybe we can keep both of them. call "unofficial" all the names which haven't been introduced yet and "approximate" those which have been loosely translated. what abt saying "The _ name given is unofficial" and for approximations "The unofficial _ name given is an approximation" But I agree with Darth Covah, we should reach to a conclusion. The sooner the better. Maybe, if we asked an admin? Like...Deltaneos? --Montechristo95 21:33, June 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah the quicker the better. Fallensilence 21:39, June 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * Don't count on it dude. I bet this thing wiil get several days to solve. And I have already expressed my point of view abt the importance of all this. But hey we should invite other translators as well. --Montechristo95 21:44, June 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm just saying the quicker the better. And I agree. The more translator the better. Fallensilence 22:23, June 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * Do you know any? --Montechristo95 22:53, June 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * I wish I knew. :( Fallensilence 00:36, June 19, 2010 (UTC)

Since there still seems to be confusion on the matter, let me clarify once and for all: the only change I am suggesting here is replacing the word "approximate"/"approximation" with "unofficial"/"not official" (as I said above, you can also propose alternate wordings for the tag, but that is not required for this discussion to be resolved, and any such proposals should convey the same information the updated tag would). I believe tagging loose, approximate translations separately from unofficial but "tight" translations is simply overcomplicating the whole thing; we only need to distinguish between official and unofficial translations and anyone in a position to recognise a particular translation as an approximation is also probably in a position to improve on it. 「 ダイノ ガイ 千？！ 」? · Talk⇒Dinoguy1000 08:05, June 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree with the rename. "Approximation" is giving people the wrong idea. They see it as "the translation may be inaccurate", rather than "the name has not been used officially". -- Deltaneos (talk) 11:50, June 19, 2010 (UTC)

So we are changing it to unofficial. Great. I'd suggest we keeped the approximate name tag for some special occasions but i admit Dinoguy1000 is right; this would just overcomplicate things. --Montechristo95 13:06, June 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * The original name of the template, "Approximate name", will remain as a redirect indefinitely, so you can use that to mark translations that really are approximate if you like. =) 「 ダイノ ガイ 千？！ 」? · Talk⇒Dinoguy1000 00:42, June 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * So was this whole talk for nothing? We just decided to keep the thing? Great. So this forum was totally ineffective. Duh, what a waste of time. Sorry abt that outburst Dinoguy1000 but i'm really pissed off. At least we decided to correct a mistake we made (adding the approximate name all the time like idiots). And one more thing, i wasn't insulted by the approximate name template, i was desperately trying to show that it doesn't apply everywhere sth neither of you could understand. Anyway, maybe next time we can reach to a more satisfying conclusion... --Montechristo95 01:08, June 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * No, that's not what I was saying. When I rename the template, by default a redirect from the original title will be left. When used on a page, there is no functional difference between the template itself and the redirect, but I had intended to update the redirect to the new template name as one of the cleanup tasks for my bot. And I did understand that "approximate" doesn't apply everywhere; that's why I started this discussion. Sorry for the additional confusion, it just goes to show that I talk too much. =) 「 ダイノ ガイ 千？！ 」? · Talk⇒Dinoguy1000 01:17, June 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * Sorry for the trouble replying to me all the time. It just goes to show that i don't get everything you say. My mistake... --Montechristo95 01:24, June 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * Don't worry about it, like I joked about above, I have a problem with talking too much. =) 「 ダイノ ガイ 千？！ 」? · Talk⇒Dinoguy1000 02:26, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

So when is this going to be changed to unofficial? Fallensilence 05:21, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

Wow, is it too late for me to comment? xD During my earlier time on this wiki, I had considered “approximate” to mean “This is, approximately, what the card would be called if it was given an official name in this language.” But I guess it lost that meaning… Regardless, “unofficial” does seem more accurate for all intents and purposes. I was comfortable with using “Approximate name” because Arabic is so different from Western and Far Eastern languages, it is nearly impossible to translate anything exactly as it is; that’s why we end up with “approximate translations” that convey the same meaning rather be devoted to accuracy. From what I understand is that other translators affirm their translations are too accurate to be called “approximations,” perhaps because their languages are closer to English/Japanese which would ensure more accuracy in translation…. ANYWAY, you seem to have agreed on “unofficial,” which is fine because it applies correctly on more names than “approximation.” -- Al-Malik ملك الألعاب 07:10, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

Well I'm going to miss "approximation". I don't know why. Fallensilence 07:16, June 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, me too. :( I got so used to typing it I could practically do it instantly :P -- Al-Malik ملك الألعاب 08:24, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

Anybody have any last words? I have none. Fallensilence 09:43, June 20, 2010 (UTC)