Forum:Reasons why cards are Forbidden/Limited

List

 * From the creator of the "List of cards to side in to cripple meta decks", comes the...


 * In case someone somehow missed it. Click "Show" on the right side of the bar.
 * This list is for the people who are curious about why certain cards are banned/limited.
 * This list can also assist people before posting a prediction on the next banlist.
 * Please help out by pointing out changes that should be made in the list (if any) (please include reasons).
 * Keep in mind that the TCG banlist is exactly the same as the OCG banlist (minus the OCG exclusives). So, reasons should be based on the OCG rulings. (adding a note to those would be appreciated, something like the one on Victory Dragon.)
 * And for those who are wondering. No, I didn't make this list recently. It been on 2 other forums before. This is the most updated version of it as the other 2 aren't being updated.
 * See also: Historic Forbidden/Limited Chart. 07:32, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

= Discussion =

September 2011
Updated for Sept'11 list. Was less accurate this time due to lack of update since Xyz Monsters being released, Konami wanting to promote Xyz Monsters (a lot), and a few things that no one expected anyways. Wanted to see more ideas and reasons before updating it, which is why I didn't update earlier. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 13:44, August 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * A lot of cards were removed. Where's Scapegoat?


 * Under Harpie's Feather Duster, it still mentions Heavy Storm as being banned. Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 13:53, August 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * A lot were moved.
 * I was sure I copy pasted Scapegoat before changing one of them to Smoke Signal.
 * Fixed both, ty. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 14:00, August 18, 2011 (UTC)

Also, MST is still listed as Limited. Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 14:01, August 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * Fixed; you can feel free to fix any obvious errors like those if you want to. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 14:05, August 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * K. Didn't see anymore, though. Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 14:08, August 18, 2011 (UTC)

Legendary Six Samurai - Shi En was listed as an Effect Monster. I fixed it (it's now listed as Synchro). Samurai Bruxo Discussão/Talk 00:00, August 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * "T.G. Hyper Librarian" was also listed as an Effect Monster (fixed now). Samurai Bruxo Discussão/Talk 00:06, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

Future Fusion says that Overload is limited--絶望 (talk • contribs) 03:56, August 22, 2011 (UTC)


 * Fixed. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 03:59, August 22, 2011 (UTC)

ummm Infernity Launcher is on the list twice? Is it so deadly it had to be Limited twice xD Neon Rider (talk • contribs) 21:05, August 26, 2011 (UTC)


 * I took care of it. --  Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo   21:17, August 26, 2011 (UTC)

why
why is rescue cat still banned when youstill have to deal with rescue cat which is much much worse Killerman3333 (talk • contribs) 00:23, December 20, 2011 (UTC)
 * I think you mean Rescue Rabbit and I disagree rescue cat was waaayyy worse Mrbiff (talk • contribs) 01:32, December 20, 2011 (UTC) mrbiff

We have two Summoner Monks, and any amount of Monks is too much when Cat's around. In addition to that, even without Dark Strike Fighter and Goyo, we still have Brionac, Orient, Arcanite, and Black Rose. In addition to that, there's other new combo possibilities with Tanngnjostr. BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 13:41, December 20, 2011 (UTC)


 * Pretty much that can kill the game with Rescue Cat. But not only Synchro, he can affect Xyz too - Overlaying Rank 1 to 3, yes, you can give Rank 1 extra boost with "Turbo Booster". "Rescue Rabbit" is little cheaper version, only increased level by 1 (up to Level 4 only) with using once per turn and cannot get two different monster (no u, Cyber Dragon/Proto-Cyber Dragon!) onto the field at same time. -- F  r  e  d  C  a  t  14:40, December 20, 2011 (UTC)
 * Oye, FredCat. You also forgot that Rescue Rabbit's targets must be a Normal monster. That's another important detail when comparing it with Cat. 75.49.10.81 (talk) 16:20, December 20, 2011 (UTC)

(In regards to BobaFett2's comment) "Brionic" I think is going to get banned soon. I mean there are some crazy combos you can pull/abuse with it (you have to admit, it is a pretty strong effect monster for a level 6 Synchro, and is capable of getting almost any card off the field. To add to this, the effect can be used over and over again). Shardsilver (talk • contribs) 15:32, December 20, 2011 (UTC)

two cards that should NOT be forbidden are choas emperor dragon - envoy of the end and dimension fusion. first chaos emepror dragon because his summon could be negated essaily with cards such as solemn judgment bottomless trap hole and many others. plus black luster solier is no longer forbidden and it has just as good an effect as the eperor dragon and just as much atk power and just as many brilliant conbos as the emeror dragon so its realy not that fair that one is forbidden and one is not. now on to dimension fusion in the list it states that there was to much abuse with dark armed dragon and i would like to say that due to dark armed dragons effect you wuold need to send alot of dark monsters to the grave first and have dark armed dragon all ready in your hand to even summon him and have dimension fusion in your hand to complete this conbo and it would cost 2000 life points as well and your opponent could summon his banished monsters which could stop the otk plus your opponent could have something on the feild to already to stop and destroy all your monsters or negate the damage or deflect the damage back at you. as for other conbos with dimension fusion. again your opponent could have there own conbo which could result in your move backfireing on your self. this could be probebly eassialy done with the fact that they are maing even more powerful cards that can be eassialy used against your opponent. personaly i feel there should be no forbidden list at all because it sucks the fun out of the game and if you belive you are a good duelist and if you are as good as you think you are then they should not have some stuiped list hold any one back from showing there full potential in the game.

Seroiously? You lack a good understanding of how this stuff works. Negation is not always possible. You may not draw the cards, they could negate them or get rid of them before you use them. CED is insane due to the fact that drawing it allows you to clear the field and both player's hands then burn your opponent. With cards like Reborn Tengu rampant this allows for so many combos. Likewise, Dimension Fusion is just too good for a number of reasons. In addition to that, if there were no banlist, Makyura Exchange of the Spirit FTK would be the single Tier 1 deck - in fact, it would probably be called Tier 0 or even -1 simply because it's so broken. BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 21:39, December 30, 2011 (UTC)

>my face when someone thinks preventing broken combos = holding back potential Lord Grammaticus (talk • contribs) 21:44, December 30, 2011 (UTC)

i agree that negation is not always possible but all the same you can not say that there is more chance of you drawing a great hand than your opponent drawing cards that would negate your move. both hand have equal chance of being drawn and when i wrote that stuff about negation i put the word could in bold because it implys the possibility of negation and if your opponent trys to negate your negation then whats to say that you dont negate there negation stratigy. and as for dimension fusion there are cards just as good such as return from the diffrent dimension. the only thing that makes dimension fusion better is the fact that with return from the diffrent dimension any monster summoned with its effect is banished at the end phase not that it realy matters because by the end phase the damage would be done. and if dark armed dragons so powerful why not put it on the banned list. and as for the banned list i agree that cards like exchange of the spirit and others would be difficult to beat but i was simply giving my opinion and saying that i would like to test how good i am when me and my opponent have no limitations or restrictions in the game.

And then you watch as you opponent wipes you out within the first turn. Something you don't realize is that when we say "broken", we are talking about the existence of combos that can win a game in 90+% of situations (I've seen one that's basically a guaranteed win, in fact). The point: You can't test skill properly in a format where everyone's using decks that reduce your chances of winning to the point where you basically have to hope that luck is on your side - and even then, it's never a sure thing. Why bother testing your potential against something that'll almost always kill you or else put the duel well out of your control instantly?

Plus, regarding Dark Armed Dragon: It has a relatively specific Summon condition, meaning you can't throw it into every Deck ever like most of the banned cards and expect it to work right. Lord Grammaticus (talk • contribs) 00:28, December 31, 2011 (UTC)

yea ok and whats to stop me winning the game in the first turn because what you dont realize is that if evry one would be aloud cards that are needed for these broken conbos is that every one would have an equal chance of drawing such conbos. and another thing you dont realize is that this game is a game of luck. you just have to make the best out of what you have got in your hand and if your opponent does have a winning stratigy then there is nothing you can do about it and there are plenty of stratigys that result in an instant win with out the use of forbidden cards. and both players have an equal chance of exicuting these stratigys and winning. so you can test skill properly in a format where everyone's using decks that reduce your chances of winning because your using just as powerful cards as they are wtich there for means that their chances of winning are reduced as well. also CED also has pretty specific summoning conditions meaning that you can't just throw it into evry deck as well. and if you have enough dark monsters in your graveyard you could clear your opponents feild reativitly eassily with dark armed dragon's effect and dark armed dragon is only like 200 atk points weaker that CED plus dark armed dragon stays on the field when it use's it's effect plus CED costs 1000 of your own life points to use its effect so CED burns you too.

I really don't think you understand how this game works.

First of all, if everyone had the same exact cards, that'd take a lot of actual skill out of the equation. Yes, this is a game of luck, but not exclusively. With the ever changing banlist, you have to be able to construct a deck that has a good chance of winning without relying on cards that are gamebreakers on their own, as well as know how the pieces fit together when constructing said Deck. There has to be room for other Decks to be viable, and the broken cards allowed in Traditional Format aren't quite conducive to that process.

And the problem with your analysis of CED is this - all it needs is at least one Light and Dark monster (compared to DAD, which needs exactly 3 Dark monsters in the grave). While this doesn't make it splashable per se, it's still a rather easy Summon. Also, your statement that CED burns you is wrong - 1000LP is a cost, not damage, and it's often more than worth it considering the amount of damage AND the options you have for wrecking your opponent afterward - like having Sangan/Witch on the field before paying, which means you're ensured at least one free monster, and if that monster is Yata-Garasu, you're done.

The ban list exists to prevent the overuse of certain cards and promote use of other strategies - not to "hold players back", as you've been ridiculous enough to mention. Lord Grammaticus (talk • contribs) 19:36, December 31, 2011 (UTC)

and i think that you must be one of those people who thinks that if there were no forbidden list then every one would use the same cards witch would take skill out of the equation. how ever you seem to fail at realising the odds of you completeing said stratigy are slim. and there are other cards that can prevent this conbo being used with cards like prohibitation, tyrants tirade, prime material dragon, consecrated light, solemn judgement and solemn warrning witch would prevent CED's effect or summon and you could have a sangan/witch of your own when CED's effect is activated. however you do need to take luck into the equation meaning that you have just as much chance getting cards like the ones i listed as your opponent does of getting CED, sangan or the witch of the black forest on their side of the field.

also it would be just as easy to get three dark monsters in the graveyard as it would to get one light and dark monster in the graveyard. and even if the 1000 life points for CED is a cost you still lose 1000 life points meaning that theres not much diffrence between cost and damage. also even if there was no banned list you could still construct a deck that has a good chance of winning any way. and if there was overuse of certain cards then surly players would be encouaged to create and promote new stratiges to defeat said cards that are being overused resulting in pushing players forward. this is something that you have clearly been stupid enough to over look.

Actually, Konami had a time without a banlist. Every player used the same damn deck(s). Same thing happened with Tele-DAD - when there is a single deck that almost always beats every other deck every other time, everyone's going to use it. BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 14:13, January 1, 2012 (UTC)

fair enough if konami did have a time without a banlist and if evry player did use the same deck then the banlist should not be completely removed. they should just put down on the list cards that are just to powerful and realy do give an unfair advantage such as temple of the kings, exchange of the spirit or all 5 peices of exodia but cards like CED dimension fusion or even pot of greed is just stupid its not like these cards are hard to beat and even if cards like them are just limited i would'nt care. but half the cards on the forbidden list just have a slightly better effect or more atk than other cards and there are cards that are unlimited and have way better effects than half the cards on the forbidden list. so not every card should be removed from the banlist but the cards they do put on should be put on for a good reason.

Getting exactly 3 dark monsters is not as easy having a light and dark monster in he grave. The exactly 3 dark monsters is very restrcting and more situatonal, you can have any number of light and dark monsters in the grave which makes the chaos monsters far easier to ummon than dark armed dragon. The 1000 life point cost is fixed, whereas the burn damage of chaos emperor dragon will almost always be above 3000. Chaos emperor dragon clears the enire field and hands, not just 3 cards like dark armed dragon.

matthew.lightbody@talktalk.net (talk • contribs) 19:01, January 1, 2012 (UTC)

ok. i understand what your getting at with dark armed dragon and CED however i stand by what i wrote about it being just as eassy getting 3 dark monsters in the grave. there are plenty of conbos that could send 3 dark monsters to the grave as eassily as sending 1 light and dark monster to the grave. you could use future fusion or hand destruction with foolish burial. and im sure there are lots of other conbos you could use. also after you get dark armed dragon on the field you could send more dark monsters to the grave to use his effect to do more damage. where as with CED every thing is destroyed inclueding him self even if your opponent takes more than 3000 damage if your opponent suvives its there turn next so they could draw a card that wipes you out witch could be a possibility as you have lost 1000 life points witch could make all the diffrence. where as with dark armed dragon if you destroy your opponents feild you still have a very powerful monster to defend your life points.


 * Good, good, you got 3 DARK monsters in the Grave. Now try to prevent more from accumulating until you draw into Dark Armed. Easy? Doesn't happen all the time. --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 02:29, January 2, 2012 (UT

you have missunderstood what i was saying. i was saying that you could get three dark monsters in the grave when you also have dark armed dragon in your hand. i was not saying send three dark monsters to the grave then wait and hope that you draw dark armed dragon. what i ment was when you have DAD in your hand then get three dark monsters in the grave.


 * Still, your Graveyard is more likely to gather more than 3 DARK monsters before you get your DAD, compared to the other way round. --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 06:59, January 3, 2012 (

yea ok but what you dont understand is that if you use a deck built around DAD then it's going to be eassy to summon DAD even if your grave does gather more dark monsters. how ever if you use DAD in your deck for whatever reason if your stratigy is to summon DAD then you should already have DAD in your hand or make sure he is going to be in your hand before your graveyard gathers to many dark monsters.

March 2012
So we now have news on the upcoming banlist. Do we update now, or wait till it actually takes effect? --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 05:53, February 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm assuming we wait until it actually takes effect, for all we known Shriek might be wrong. It's unlikely but possible... And preferred.121.222.228.13 (talk) 06:05, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

Shouldn't the list be updated? Its march 2th (atleast for me) its supposed to take effect by now LG talk My own Guides 14:57, March 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * I was thinking about doing it but it's Falzar's forum and he usually does it. But, he get's really busy sometimes with other stuff and it's March now so I think I'll take care of it. This most recent list was really out there, so when I type up the reasons for where cards are on the list, it might be biased towards my opinion. So, if anyone ends up disagreeing with what I put, I won't care if they change it. I mostly just want to get it updated. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 19:49, March 2, 2012 (UTC)

I don't think Glow-Up Bulb was hit to hurt plants, I think it was just an indirect hit for them. Hitting it killed the First Turn Quasar Future Fusion deck that was insanely consistent, without GUB they have no targets to make Formula Synchron with. So yeah, maybe it wasn't because of Plants considering they weren't exactly top tier for a while, just my thoughts. 123.211.144.181 (talk) 05:08, March 3, 2012 (UTC)


 * Yeah, but Spore got hit too, so I'm thinking Plants. I'll add the First Turn Quasar thing though. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 05:31, March 3, 2012 (UTC)

Random off-topic question - does anybody else think that Mirage of Nightmare should be changed from "Never" to "Very Low?" Seriously, even Yata-Garasu is "Very Low." 99.165.192.113 (talk) 22:41, March 3, 2012 (UTC)


 * I was actually considering it when I was updating this earlier. I could see Mirage coming back at some point. I'm mostly sketchy on the fact that it could make Fableds and DW OP. I would like a little input from other people before changing this one. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 23:33, March 3, 2012 (UTC)


 * Dark Worlds I could see being pretty good with it, I can't see Fableds being that great with it though. Sure it'd give them a boost but they'll need more than a boost to be able to compete with current decks.
 * And I'm not sure it'd be brought back. Does it help Xyz's at all? Nope. Less chance of it coming back.
 * 123.211.144.181 (talk) 01:33, March 4, 2012 (UTC)


 * I wasn't saying it has a very high likelihood of coming back, but wouldn't you agree it has at more of a chance of coming back than that annoying freaking-crow-that-wins-games-on-its-own? 99.165.192.113 (talk) 01:53, March 4, 2012 (UTC)


 * Probably, but even so, I think a very low is needed at least. -- - Crimson Joker ( Talk ) 04:40, March 5, 2012 (UTC)


 * So, pretty much we agree Very Low for Mirage of Nightmare, correct? --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 09:46, March 5, 2012 (UTC)


 * I think that at the very least, nobody is arguing against it. 99.165.192.113 (talk) 21:11, March 5, 2012 (UTC)

Ok, is there anything else on there that anyone thinks should be changed? And also, maybe some discussion on some cards that are marked as "unsure" ( "-" )? --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 23:49, March 5, 2012 (UTC)


 * Maybe Metamorphosis to "Very Low?" It has too many epic combos (derp, my Beast King Barbaros becomes Cyber Twin Dragon and my Metal Reflect Slime becomes Naturia Exterio). EDIT: Oh, and Formula Synchron to "=" I think, it's balanced at one. 99.165.192.113 (talk) 00:58, March 6, 2012 (UTC)


 * Done and done. I put Formula as =, but with a chance of going ↓. With Glow-Up AND Fishborg gone, it's really not as broken. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 03:08, March 6, 2012 (UTC)


 * Fishborg Blaster to "Low?" As it says up there he is quite abusable, but also Fishborg Launcher was designed to be a nerfed replacement for him. 99.165.192.113 (talk) 11:18, March 7, 2012 (UTC)


 * With Laucher replacing Blaster, the odds of Blaster coming back are even slimmer. I'm gonna say Very Low. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 21:16, March 7, 2012 (UTC)

Magical scientist should have his reason slightly edited, apart from the FTK he can perform with catapult turtle, he can also summon 4 xyz monsters by itself, which is obviously far too fast for this format.

matthew.lightbody@talktalk.net (talk • contribs) 21:38, March 15, 2012 (UTC)


 * I agree with you, and done. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 00:40, March 16, 2012 (UTC)

Does anybody else think Snatch Steal should go to "Never" (sorry, update to end all updates)? IMO it's even worse than Change of Heart because even though it can't target face-downs to take control of, it offers control as long as it stays on the field, Hidden Armory can search/recycle it indiscriminately because you don't need to summon during a series of turns where you just steal your opponents monsters, and the opponent LP gain just doesn't matter. 99.162.190.109 (talk) 15:02, March 17, 2012 (UTC) P.S. - Hey, maybe Konami will errata Magical Scientist to say "up to twice per turn" and bring him back to promote Xyzs. Probably not.


 * lol, I didn't mean it would be the last update. I meant it as it would be the last mass update for a while. As for Snatch Steal to "Never", I don't agree. 3 MSTs, Heavy Storm, Night Shot (actually really good), etc. It's just not gonna stay on the field. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 17:32, March 17, 2012 (UTC)


 * Disregard Night Shot, I put that forgetting that it only destroys set S/T. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 17:28, March 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * Snatch Steal is pretty bad. Most of my losses in Duel Academy (I know AI sucks) come from blowing all my cards to get ahead one powerful monster, than losing that monster next turn. While The card can be destroyed quite easily from MST, You should never use the card with the intention of keeping it on the field longer than a turn anyway. The "cost" of increasing your opponents life points is easily negated by saving it until your foe brings out the big guns and smashing him with his own ace. I don't know if Never is overkill, but it won't be coming down anytime soon. It would be balanced if it was limited to level 4 or lower cards maybe.ZGWolf (talk • contribs) 20:29, March 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * You're absolutely right, it's not coming back soon, and it might never come back. But putting "Never" is definitely overkill. "Never" should be reserved for truly broken/poorly designed cards like CED, Substitoad, Imperial Order, and Victory Dragon (because of the way surrendering works in the OCG). --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 21:34, March 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * Speaking of whom, IIRC, Victory Dragon is also banned, and never coming back, because you could sidedeck it in 3rd duel, even if you have 2 losses, the duel would be required to be played because it is "possible" that you will win the match, basically wasting everyone's time. 75.58.124.7 (talk) 21:53, March 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't think it works like that. If you have 2 losses, you lost the match and you don't get a chance to side. The match can't continue if a winner has been determined. But, the point is, Victory Dragon is never coming back either way. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 21:58, March 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * actually of all the "broken" cards in the game, I think Victory dragon is the most likely to come back. It was a pain in the neck to actually summon, and is actully pretty weak. As wierd as it may sound, I am more afraid of snatch steal than victory dragon. Then again I don't do much tourneys. Just wondering, were there any cases between release and ban where this card was actually used? Not that I actually want it, it's just really shiny 0_0

ZGWolf (talk • contribs) 02:55, March 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * The reason Victory Dragon will not come back is because of the OCG. In the TCG, when your opponent drops VD, you can just surrender before they can damage you with it, so that they only win the round and not the full match. In the OCG, you may only surrender after the tenth turn. VD is worse now because it can be summoned easier than before. Hieratics can drop it in a single turn, and possibly drop you to 0 that turn since they're so OTK oriented. It also may never come back just because it's the only Match Winner that isn't Illegal. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 03:03, March 22, 2012 (UTC)

Topic conflict
I am now notice the mispurpose of "CURRENTLY BANNED" while there are like Limited and Semi-Limited including those recipes. So why not change the topic to "List of Reasons why cards are on the Currently Banlist" instead of "List of Reason why cards are Currently Banned"? So that can making a sense...? -- F  r  e  d  C  a  t  00:49, March 16, 2012 (UTC)


 * Oh, I see what you mean. We're not talking about just the banned stuff, we're talking about Semi-Limited and Limited stuff too, so the title is inaccurate. I agree in all honesty. What about "Reasons why cards are currently restricted" or "Reasons why cards are Banned/Limited"? Which sounds better? I don't think we need to say "List of..." in the title. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 01:04, March 16, 2012 (UTC)


 * I agree with changing, maybe "Which Cards are Restricted and Why"? 99.162.190.109 (talk) 01:00, March 16, 2012 (UTC)


 * This unregistered user has better topic choice - let's go with that! -- F  r  e  d  C  a  t  01:02, March 16, 2012 (UTC)


 * I like it too, but I want a few different ideas out there to choose from before we decide what to change it to. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 01:04, March 16, 2012 (UTC)


 * Do we need to invoking some Admins to include some discusses with this? -- F  r  e  d  C  a  t  01:10, March 16, 2012 (UTC)


 * No, we don't have to. I'm just saying that we should throw a few more ideas out there for the new name. Like maybe "Reasons why cards currently on the Forbidden/Limited list" or something. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 01:14, March 16, 2012 (UTC)


 * Ok, but I am still going with the one unregistered user made up, it suit this article better. -- F  r  e  d  C  a  t  01:18, March 16, 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm thinking about going ahead and changing it now because the current title is just meh. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 17:32, March 20, 2012 (UTC)

Trishula
Ok why does the reason of trishula say "her"? does trishula honestly look like a female to you? LG talk My own Guides 15:01, March 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * Are you sexist against female dragons then? I'm not sure as to the answer myself, but I've heard Trish getting called "her" by a lot of people... 75.58.122.97 (talk) 22:21, March 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * As well as this article being mentioned "her" allot. -- F  r  e  d  C  a  t  23:17, March 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * Most people I know refer to Trishula as a "her". And yes, I do feel that she appears to be female. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 17:07, March 24, 2012 (UTC)

IDK might have to do with the fact that most people refer to the card as "Trish" sounds feminine to me...

Shinkirou 21:45, March 24, 2012 (UTC)

Scapegoat
I want to discuss this card. I don't understand why it has been limited for so long. Goat Control is beyond dead, and with all of these mass removal effects floating around, it just seems like it's not that great anymore. Sure, you can use it with a Tuner to Synchro for almost anything you want, but Xyz Monsters are taking over anyways. Thoughts? --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 03:02, March 26, 2012 (UTC)

There's enough stall in this game. Soon you'll be able to fill a deck with nothing but stall. 121.222.170.239 (talk) 22:27, March 26, 2012 (UTC)


 * Most people consider stalling to be a sub-par strategy in this day and age. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 22:32, March 26, 2012 (UTC)

The stall isn't that bad anymore, with more cards that pierce and easier ways to get rid of the tokens. I think the main concern is Synchros, so maybe it could have a chance of semi-limit now that Konami has smacked our best tuners and Synchro monsters. Personally, I'm perfectly fine with it at one though. 75.58.122.97 (talk) 22:31, March 28, 2012 (UTC)


 * Agreed. I could see it going to 2, since it wouldn't really affect the game. I'll put it as Low chance of getting less restricted I think. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 06:43, March 30, 2012 (UTC)


 * and there are much more piercing monsters now. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 07:44, March 30, 2012 (UTC)


 * Just because there are more doesn't mean people run them. How many piercing monsters do you run? I don't think I run any in any deck I play.
 * If that was a good enough reason to bring back cards:
 * There's many ways to destroy monsters, Yata-Garasu and Goyo Guardian should come back.
 * There's many ways to stop effects, Tribe-Infecting Virus should come back.
 * There are many ways to prevent destruction, Harpie's Feather Duster and Raigeki should come back.
 * These examples may be a bit extreme but you get the idea.
 * 121.222.170.239 (talk) 10:30, March 30, 2012 (UTC)


 * I see the idea, but those were all banned, while Goat is at 1. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 17:03, March 30, 2012 (UTC)


 * Unlike most of the ones you mentioned, Scapegoat does not tend to be a "play it and win" or "play it and get unstoppable advantage" card. 75.58.122.97 (talk) 18:48, March 30, 2012 (UTC)


 * I see you missed the part where I said "These examples may be a bit extreme but you get the idea."
 * 121.222.170.239 (talk) 07:37, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

Those Formerly Forbidden
You haven't listed the reasons for Creature Swap, Emergency Provisions, Light and Darkness Dragon, Mage Power, Phantom of Chaos and the Gadgets at 2. I suppose this thread's name doesn't mention "Semi-Limited", but you did list Apprentice Magician and Morphing Jar #2 so I'm not sure. 207.233.120.2 (talk) 20:08, April 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * Creature Swap/Mage Power: Too strong. Returned after revisionism.
 * Green/Red/Yellow Gadget: Gadgets were topping. Now they're not.
 * Emergency Provisions: Abused with Mirage of Nightmare.
 * Light and Darkness Dragon: Perfect Circle.
 * Phantom of Chaos: Overhype? I don't know the environment from that time.


 * Well, I'd like to think that "Limited" implies that Semi-Limited is included in this case. Anyways, I can go ahead and add some reasons for those cards. I'm not sure about Phantom of Chaos either. I imagine it has to do with Sky Scourge decks. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 02:10, April 27, 2012 (UTC)

heres a reason for PoC: was abused in norelras and demise decks to create a yata-lock-like situation or in fusion decks with hard-to-summon materials (sacred beasts,VWXYZ) LG talk My own Guides 04:59, April 27, 2012 (UTC)

A nice reminder
I would just like to remind all of you that YOU CAN EDIT THE LIST AS LONG AS YOU DON'T SCREW IT UP! But I will delete anything I feel shouldn't be here. kthnx. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 05:20, May 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * Made some constructive edits. It's almost impossible to edit the list on Internet Explorer because the size of the page slows the editor to a crawl. As a sidenote, I believe Solemn Warning can negate more cards than Royal Oppression. 207.233.120.2 (talk) 16:56, May 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, thank you. The additions look pretty legit. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 02:40, May 13, 2012 (UTC)


 * Added [ section edit for the list]. That way it'll only load the list, and not this discussion area. So less to load = less lag.
 * -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 04:03, May 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you Falzar! I actually didn't know that was possible. Also, at some point, is there a way to archive some of the discussion? It's starting to get a little lengthy. It's not an immediate problem but I wanted to know if it can be done for the future. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 04:09, May 13, 2012 (UTC)


 * Might as well. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 04:16, May 13, 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks again. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 04:52, May 13, 2012 (UTC)

Glow Up Bulb/Spore
I think that both of these should be changed to Low, Konami seems to be going through a phase of disliking reusable Tuner monsters and both of these fit the bill; Glow-Up Bulb is obvious, and Spore can still be used in combination with Lonefire Blossom. 108.196.206.15 (talk) 20:17, June 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * Sounds like a plan. I don't really see them as being that broken personally. I can see them coming back at some point. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 23:14, June 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * Most like never return - as they abused to shit out Quasar Dragon onto the field then punch the hell out of opponent's face if played right. Either ban Quasar or forget them. -- i  F  r  e  d  C  a  t  23:16, June 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * I completely disagree. Most Plant decks opted not to run Quasar. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 23:20, June 19, 2012 (UTC)

About Rescue Cat
IMO Rescue Cat should NEVER EVER leave the list. Mainly because this card from REDU. I mean, Cat (or Monk into Cat) -> Unifolia + Darksoul -> Cat + Darksoul -> ... -> Beast + Barkion + a couple of searches by Darksouls. That's too scary ._." -- Brunjox ( talk, contrib ) 11:43, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

Alternatively, a zombified version of the Last Will Rescue Cat OTK. If you remember that, feel free to tremble now. --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 12:29, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

if only trishula was still here, it mneans 2 searches + 2700 beater + banishing 3 cards from 3 diffirent places. scary right?--LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 12:45, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

Very scary indeed. I do remember the Last Will/Rescue Cat combo, but the OTK with Unifolia is even scarier, because it's a possible OTK AND a Spell/Trap lockdown if you go first. Just set some backrow (the Solemn brigade or other stuff) and it's game - ALL THANKS TO 1 CARD (Cat) or 2 (Monk and a Spell) in hand. -- Brunjox ( talk, contrib ) 13:00, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

Card of Safe Return
This card should go to NEVER because it should NEVER i say NEVER Come back. Something like infernities,X-sabers,Zombies, Wind-ups,frogs,synchrons and Lavals will overly spam this. NEVER Come back.--LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 16:35, July 10, 2012 (UTC)


 * You're right except for the "Infernity" archetype, who wouldn't gain any advantage from that card. Also, "Dark World" anyone? (Grapha/Sillva/Goldd/Beeige/etc.) -- Brunjox ( talk, contrib ) 17:50, July 11, 2012 (UTC)

I used CoSR with 3 stardust and/or stardust assault modes to lock down their everything basically.

Kordeleski (talk • contribs) 21:59, July 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * Ever with Hieratic, if some Dragons are in the Graveyard, they can abusing with this card by reborn either Sealed version or Level 6 Normal Dragon (Luster Dragon 2) with enough of hand to recycle for next combines. -- i  F  r  e  d  C  a  t  22:06, July 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * Definitely right, with the exception of Infernities. Infernities would never use it, it would just be a liability. Fableds on the other hand.... i'll cal this one a NEVER. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 02:39, August 13, 2012 (UTC)

Elemental HERO Stratos
I think this card should be Chance of Up to Forbidden List. Not only it is +1, searching for Elemental HERO Neos Alius for HERO Beat Deck, but also, A HERO Lives Deck has taken over entire OCG Tournament. With XYZ available, it is now even easy to send Stratos back to Grave, only to be reused by Call of the Haunted or Monster Reborn again.--98.198.189.74 (talk) 04:43, August 13, 2012 (UTC)A Nerd Next Door--98.198.189.74 (talk) 04:43, August 13, 2012 (UTC)

UPDATE
http://shriek.twoday.net/stories/129655023 The September 2012 banlist has been confirmed. On September 1st or 2nd, I will mass-update this list, including the new cards, new reasons for certain cards being where they are, and whether or not those cards have a chance of going up or down. I would appreciate it if everyone leaves this alone until then since there's no use discussing it with the format change so close, and there's no point in adding the new stuff before the list takes effect. Thank you kindly for your patience. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 08:59, August 17, 2012 (UTC)

What?!?!

So does this mean you can't have these cards period? Because I was planning in getting Trishula and I already have Cyber Jar, Magician of Faith, and Giant Trunade. What should I do now? Throw them away?! SwordoftheSpirit (talk • contribs) 01:28, August 22, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, you are allowed to have them. You just can't put them in your deck. PHASE (talk • contribs) 01:57, August 22, 2012 (UTC)

At all or can I use them if I say Duel my brother? Or a friend who will agree to let me use them? SwordoftheSpirit (talk • contribs) 02:48, August 22, 2012 (UTC)

If your opponent is okay with it then sure, we have Traditional Format don't we? PHASE (talk • contribs) 03:07, August 22, 2012 (UTC)

Question for Skull, what're you going to put as the reason for Spore being at 1? A large number of people agree there's no point it being at one, you think it was just Konami being Konami? 58.169.183.228 (talk) 12:57, August 26, 2012 (UTC)


 * Pretty much - Konami is being silly, but also clever - if we get Spore back to unlimited (ever with it effect limited itself to once per duel), it can evade "D.D. Crow", any banish cards that ripping this card out of anywhere. It's like you tried to "Mystical Space Typhoon" the "Infernity Launcher", then see Infernity player miracle drew second Launcher. That's worth the trouble. -- i  F  r  e  d  C  a  t  13:05, August 26, 2012 (UTC)


 * Except that everyone knows you chain Crow to Spore's effect, so that it's still been activated. Lappyzard (talk • contribs) 14:56, August 26, 2012 (UTC)

soooo...when are you going to edit the list? —This unsigned comment was made by ‎ Inuyasha205  (talk • contribs)   18:14, September 3, 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't play competitively any more so I'm not sure why the cards are hit. I think I've mentioned that other people can edit the list as long as they know the table syntax. (Or post the reasons below) -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 00:50, September 4, 2012 (UTC)

"Wind-Up Carrier Zenmaity" is the first Xyz Monster to be in the list, so it's the first time to have a card with the black color in the table... I can't read it because the font is also black xD. --Missign0 (talk • contribs) 13:39, September 10, 2012 (UTC)


 * The colours are the same as what Konami use, so fixed. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 14:11, September 10, 2012 (UTC)

Pot of Duality and agent of earth has not been listed

matthew.lightbody@talktalk.net (talk • contribs) 09:51, September 11, 2012 (UTC)


 * A number of cards have not yet been listed. Add the hits to HERO decks and Seal of Convocation to those, then there're probably still more. 108.196.206.15 (talk) 19:41, September 11, 2012 (UTC)

I ended up procrastinating pretty badly on this. I'm not sure what all got updated here if anything. Anyone wanna fill me in so I can knock this out tonight? --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 21:47, September 17, 2012 (UTC)

Guess someone did end up taking care of it. Sorry about the procrastination on my part. Just did a little cleanup and updating. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 03:12, September 19, 2012 (UTC)