Talk:Number

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28 Owner
From the Manga scans it is definite that Haruto Tenjo (manga) has 28, and form what I could gather it was another moulded at will Number, like 14 and 21. Photonkrios99 (talk • contribs) 21:21, November 21, 2013 (UTC)


 * http://i.imgur.com/nufeb3k.jpg pic, lest I be called a hypocrite.Photonkrios99 (talk • contribs) 22:32, November 21, 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes your correct on both counts -- slave (command•works) 22:49, November 21, 2013 (UTC)


 * Small question about 28's previous section, should we go with None as Haruto 'created' it, or does anyone know if he got the blank Number from Yagumo and if so would Yagumo giving him the blank Number be enough to say he's a previous owner?. Photonkrios99 (talk • contribs) 20:29, November 24, 2013 (UTC)


 * I'd ask User:LegendaryAsariUgetsu about that. --UltimateKuriboh (talk • contribs) 20:31, November 24, 2013 (UTC)

96+43
Dark Mist is now confirmed to be with Vector. He also has a new Number 43. Photonkrios99 (talk • contribs) 09:23, November 24, 2013 (UTC)

The Arclight's Numbers
Since we're not sure who specifically has the Numbers of the Arclight brothers after their duels with the Barians, why not use "Seven Barian Emperors" as a placeholder since dialogue implies that they at least took possession of them after defeating them.--BahamutX978 (talk • contribs) 19:28, November 25, 2013 (UTC)


 * Because it is unknown and has not been directly stated/shown they have them. Photonkrios99 (talk • contribs) 19:52, November 25, 2013 (UTC)


 * Because Durbe was joking. You know how funny can he be...

Yano88 (talk • contribs) 20:01, November 25, 2013 (UTC)

Yano, quit being a whiny brat or whatever on earth you're trying to be about the whole issue. There are more professional ways to argue about it than the way you are doing so. At this point you are contributing absolutely nothing to the discussion for the sake of what? A punch line? I don't even know what you are trying to accomplish anymore. Policy dictates that we do things a certain way. We can't change that. I'm sure Krios and a lot of other people support the idea that the Barians have these Numbers. But we can't put that in because we don't have definitive proof. Yes, it is implied. Yes, it seems incredibly obvious. But then again, Heliocentricism was once seen as "obviously wrong" and the one where everything revolved around the Earth was seen as "obviously correct". What that has to do with the discussion, nothing except that you can't just say something is so because it seems obvious that it is that way. Aeron Solo wuz here (If you wanna talk)  20:09, November 25, 2013 (UTC)

Ignoring the above spat, while which specific Barian holds them is up to speculation, since one of the Barians' goals is to collect the Numbers, it is clear that the group most likely took possession of them as a collective since after IV's defeat, Durbe lists off the remaining people with Numbers and Nasch orders everyone to split up and find them.--BahamutX978 (talk • contribs) 20:14, November 25, 2013 (UTC)

Sorry about said spat. That being said, if you scroll to the very end of it you will see the reason that we can't do that: it's implied. It's not explicitly stated, shown, etc. As such, our hands are tied. We can't do anything about "implied" because that which is "obviously implied to be correct" is not proof. For example, I could say that Z-One was Yusei before watching the episode that says that he was actually someone impersonating Yusei in every way. Also it was once "obvious" that Number 96 should have gone to Yuma after it was defeated. Yet, hey what's this? He's with...Vector??? That's the reason. Aeron Solo wuz here (If you wanna talk)  20:18, November 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Aye. Aeron makes excellent points. This was why I asked UK to lock the page temporaily... Sanokal K-T (talk • contribs) 20:21, November 25, 2013 (UTC)


 * Fair enough. I figured offering a group term as the current possessor(s) would be better than just putting "Unknown" since we can't say who specifically because we don't see them obtained.

Also, just as a little extra comment, I always thought that the following episode made it clear that Vector got 96 since its power is part of the card. I never once thought that Yuma got 96 after that scene(same for 65 with it). But then again, that is a completely different discussion.--BahamutX978 (talk • contribs) 20:28, November 25, 2013 (UTC)

It is. I just offered that as an example of the discrepancies; I thought it was obvious up until 96's power was revealed to be with Don Thousand. At that point I hesitated. But that's beside the point. I'm truthfully all for putting down the Barian Emperors as the current holders but I know that it's not going to hold up against speculation unless the admins reeeaaaaalllly stretch that policy to its limits. Which they won't. It's not quite close enough for them to go that far. Aeron Solo wuz here (If you wanna talk)  20:40, November 25, 2013 (UTC)

Aeron dont lose your cool for my comments. If you find them unappropriate or off topic limit yourself to delete them. Dont go ahead writing poems about me :-D Also if I may add, Number 96 being with Yuma was never sure. In fact I was the first to suggest that it was with Vector since it was never shown to be absorbed by Astral. Finally I say that Seven Barian Emperors or even better "Barian World" or even a disclaimer (because you were a fan of it since last week, now no more) is better than Unknown because what Durbe said is much of a proof. Also Unknown is wrong. We do know where those Numbers are. They are at the disposal of the Barians. ---> Barian World > Unknown. More logic and offers more information about those cards.

ps: It wasnt me who re opened this discussion. I just made a joke about Durbe so next time, just chill before going rage on me.

Yano88 (talk • contribs) 21:48, November 25, 2013 (UTC)


 * Please explain how Durbe listing people with Numbers is proof that they have acquired more, because I would really like to know. An Unknown is not wrong as we have NO CHARACTER IN WHICH TO ATTRIBUTE THE NUMBERS TO. I would also like an explanation as to how the Barian World can own things, last I checked non sentient things are in capable of such feats.Photonkrios99 (talk • contribs) 21:58, November 25, 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes of course Durbe saying to Nasch (after the duel against IV) that the Numbers Holder now are just III, V and Yuma definitely means that Gimmick Puppet Numbers are left with IV on the ground or maybe some fairy ghost of the Astral World took them XD If you dont want to put Barian World even Nasch would be better since, from the start of the anime, when a Number Hunter defeat another one, he usually takes the Numbers. XD Anyway for me this discussion is over since weeks.


 * Yano88 (talk • contribs) 22:14, November 25, 2013 (UTC)


 * So you've found 100% proof that could not be taken any other way Nasch has them then? And you are still yet to tell us when Durbe said they acquired more Numbers.Photonkrios99 (talk • contribs) 22:17, November 25, 2013 (UTC)


 * Im not telling you anything. Like I said discussing this matter is time wasted. "We dont have evidences, hands tied". God, this really seems the CIA wikia XD. I already made my point clear. Unknown is wrong since we know, for sure, 100%, confirmed by the anime, that those Numbers are with the Barians now. Dont want to change. Fine by me. I'll try to live on lol.

Yano88 (talk • contribs) 23:01, November 25, 2013 (UTC)

Calm down, everyone, this isn't getting us anywhere.

Instead of changing the location in the table, might it be prudent to mention elsewhere that while the locations of the Arclight's Number's are unknown, they are presumably in the hands of the Barians? Same going for Djinn Buster being with Vector. Of course, this would be for the time being until furthur information is revealed. At least this way it comes to both sides of the arguement. Sanokal K-T (talk • contribs) 22:58, November 25, 2013 (UTC)


 * ^This, seriously it's a nice middle ground which should allow conflict to be avoided... please? XD -- slave (command•works) 23:22, November 25, 2013 (UTC)


 * We'd have to take it up with the admins. Given that those who've seen this topic are understandbly annoyed whenever it gets brought up, it might be a wee bit difficult...Or is that just me? Sanokal K-T (talk • contribs) 23:51, November 25, 2013 (UTC)


 * First of all, I'm glad this is being discussed. Because not doing so will do nothing but get the page locked again.
 * If it was my call alone, I would say "put Seven Barian Emperors". It would make no sense for them not to take them, given that's their entire goal. However, one could argue that the "Numbers" just vanished altogether and no one has them and that their goal would still be accomplished with the "Numbers" are gone.
 * In almost all cases, I hate the idea of putting "presumably" anywhere on this wiki. This is one of the cases I would make an exception for, given that I expect we'll get in-universe clarification eventually and how obvious it seems. So yes, I have no problem with "presumably" in this case.
 * I can't just say yes or no though. What does everyone else think? Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 01:34, November 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * Truthfully, I don't see a good answer anywhere. Unknown is truthful and adheres to policy, but personally unsatisfactory nonetheless. At this point though it seems a lot of people seem to agree that the only way they could go anywhere else would be extremely unlikely circumstances. Policy vs. "Duh they obviously took tehm" is the only point of this long argument. If Cheesedude is willing to stretch the boundaries of policy to fit over this, then I give "Barian Emperors" my vote as well. Aeron Solo wuz here (If you wanna talk)  01:42, November 26, 2013 (UTC)

I vote to put Seven Barian Emperors, guys.Over-HundredLegendaryChaosShiningNumbers (talk • contribs) 01:54, November 26, 2013 (UTC)

All sounds good to me =) -- slave (command•works) 03:04, November 26, 2013 (UTC)

I'd prefer presumably, but I don't mind either way, just as long as we can clear this up. The reason that I initially mentioned that was due to its use (although far moer justified) in the Wicked God article that states that presumably Bandit Keith still has his copy of the "Eraser", (though it also notes that he hated the card.) Sanokal K-T (talk • contribs) 03:10, November 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * I feel listing them with the 7BE would be best as it is as Aeron put a 'Duh' situation. Photonkrios99 (talk • contribs) 07:43, November 26, 2013 (UTC)

Finally... Thanks for understanding.

Yano88 (talk • contribs) 13:36, November 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * Yeah, all because you couldn't deal with the fact that we were stating what we actually know and not jumping to conclusions. You just wouldn't stop bringing this up until you had your way. Congratulations, you got it. NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs) 13:44, November 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * Should we extend the 'No, Duh' argument to include Vector and 65, seeing as we know he absorbed not just 96's power but is actual card so it would be just as reasonable as putting 7BE for the Arclight's? Photonkrios99 (talk • contribs) 15:30, November 26, 2013 (UTC)

I think it would be because 96 was last owner of Number 65 and his own card. Then when Don Vector re-absorbed him, he also got Number 96's card. Therefore, Vector should have absorbed Number 65 as well. But we'll probably have to talk with Cheesedude on that one...Over-HundredLegendaryChaosShiningNumbers (talk • contribs) 15:34, November 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * That issue will propbably resolve itself soon enough anyway seeing as Vector is shown using C65 in the opening. The only question then is if we should just wait for him to summon it or just take pre-emptive action there.--BahamutX978 (talk • contribs) 17:57, November 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes, same logic applies to this. If we bend the rules for the others, we will for that one too. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 20:03, November 26, 2013 (UTC)

Original CNo. count
Because I can foresee a page lock/edit war coming on, can people please stop +7ing the Cno. count, It's for the CNo. versions of the original Numebrs and does not include the 10X versions. Photonkrios99 (talk • contribs) 22:22, December 4, 2013 (UTC)

well Number 10x are still apart of the number archetype, and No C10x are still part of the no C, so they must be noted, as the page represents no only the archetype in relation to the series, but the game aswell..F8lfire (talk • contribs) 23:08, December 4, 2013 (UTC)


 * But noted on a section that explicitly states Original, I don't think so, they are mentioned on the pages you have stated but they are not apart of the originals therefore should not be apart of the count. Photonkrios99 (talk • contribs) 23:15, December 4, 2013 (UTC)

Numbers 80 and 58 might be Fake Numbers
So I don't know how many people watched the episode today, but Astral noticed that when Gilag summoned Burner Visor, Don Thousand's power was coming from it, or something to that effect, and said something about it being similar to when Alito was possessed. I don't actually know the specific details of what he said as my japanese is pretty bad, but I'm going to throw this out right now: This might mean that 58 and 80 are fake numbers. Don't actually do anything until either the subs come out or someone with better japanese listens to that statement and tells us exactly what he said. He might just have been saying that the two were extra sources of control by Don Thousand or something; Astral did say something about them being related to the "sealing" or whatever of Alitto and Gilag. Aeron Solo wuz here (If you wanna talk)  16:38, December 8, 2013 (UTC)


 * 1;58 is confirmed to be released this/next month, so I ask why would they release a fake Number?
 * 2;96 IS a shard of DT's power, so how can, Senses DT be a reason for fake when we know that 96 is a legit Number with Astrals Memories and all? Photonkrios99 (talk • contribs) 19:15, December 8, 2013 (UTC)

1: Fake Numbers also look like a lot of fun to play with. I would really like a number of fake numbers to be released just to spice up the series a little. 2: I already said, I didn't understand what he said entirely. I already acknowledged that they might just have been corrupted. I posted to give everyone a heads up, not to actually change anything. I don't know any of the specifics. 3: What on earth are you saying with your second point??? Is that even proper english??? What I see is that you're saying that 96 is an actual number that was corrupted, which might account for the fact that DT's power was coming from 58. Is that true? If so then my above points apply to that statement: I don't know what he specifically said, I'm just seeing we need to get that part translated so we know what's up. Aeron Solo wuz here (If you wanna talk)  19:50, December 8, 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes, bad english on 2, sorry about that, I meant to say, I don't see how it can be suggested that if Astral makes a comment regarding DT's power about a Number how we can turn around and label it fake instantly especially when 96, which we know was a legit Number was the same way. On the point of releasing Fakes, Can you all subjectivity aside can you really see Konami releasing cards that would mess up a very collectable archetype like that. Photonkrios99 (talk • contribs) 20:40, December 8, 2013 (UTC)


 * A card being released in the TCG/OCG is irrelevant to the point. The Duel Dragons from the 5D's manga are just re-utilizing the Signer Dragons in a different way. And yet despite having the same appearance and similar names, they were/are being release in the TCG/OCG. At some point when they can figure out a way to make them legit, I'm certain Number 1-4 will be release at some point in the future. I mean it took them, what, a year and a half or so to release Dragonecro to the public? --Rocket.knight.777 (talk • contribs) 06:53, December 19, 2013 (UTC)


 * Except the Duel Dragons and Signer Dragons are two different plot points from two different continuities, and neither are claimed to be a part of the other, they just fill their respective gaps in the Manga and Anime. Where as the Fake Numbers are presented to use as claiming to be something they are not, which means it would be counter productive to release any number that was a fake, especially when Konami acknowledges that they are rather collectable Archtype, hens why NUMH had it listed as one of its selling points. Photonkrios99 (talk • contribs) 12:28, December 21, 2013 (UTC)

Prime Photon Dragon's Number location.
I know we could probably wait until the "Number Flash" on the show, but if you look closely at Prime Photon Dragon's left wing, you can see his Number. NovaTsukimori (talk • contribs) 04:41, December 19, 2013 (UTC)


 * It's already been added to the table. Photonkrios99 (talk • contribs) 06:42, December 19, 2013 (UTC)

"Numbers" part in Japanese names.
Shouldn't the "Numbers" part in the Japanese names be translated as "Numbers' XX" instead of "Numbers XX"? For example, No. 39 being "Numbers' 39 : King of Wishes Hope", because he is the "39" of the "Numbers" archetype ? HPZ - O.N.E. (talk • contribs) 08:38, December 19, 2013 (UTC)


 * Uh, no. That's bad grammar. --Rocket.knight.777 (talk • contribs) 16:19, December 19, 2013 (UTC)


 * Actually, there's zero way to tell if it was meant as plural or possessive. It could be either. And I must say I think possessive makes more sense. Though it could be plural, simply because Japan likes bad English. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 18:07, December 19, 2013 (UTC)

So about their age....
"Reading history" So the Numeron Dragon, which created the Universe and the Numeron Code, borrowed the power of the Numbers to conceal its existence. Not only that, all of the Barian Emperors were connected to the Legendary Numbers in their past lives, however long ago they were. Dragluon even formed in Mizael's hand in a flashback in episode 135.

O.o

Was Yuma really the one who released the Numbers anymore? I mean come on, sure they said that in the beginning and it was reasonable to say so up to a point, but come on. Trying to say that after this ^ (look at above point) is ridiculous. I know there is such a thing as continuity, but face it; unless Yuma summoning Astral into this world released the Numbers across ALL OF SPACE-TIME, meaning they scattered everywhere along the time stream as well as around the globe (in which case I say: Great job Yuma, you are single-handedly responsible for screwing the ENTIRE UNIVERSE), I don't see how it's possible that he released them anymore. Aeron Solo wuz here (If you wanna talk)  00:02, December 30, 2013 (UTC)


 * I really don't see how its impossible. So they're really old. That's fine. Some were used to seal Don Thousand, the rest were released by Yuma. There is no reason why the Numbers can't have history BEFORE Yuma released them. He released them. He didn't create them. Each Number can easily have its own history before being released (most probably don't, given the whole "based on the original owner" thing, but we've seen that some clearly do). I will say it once again. We do not know everything, but ZEXAL isn't over yet. They are slowing revealing more and more. I can't see there not being a clear (or at least acceptable) explanation by the end of the show.
 * For now, there's no reason we can't just note the new information alongside the old. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 00:26, December 30, 2013 (UTC)


 * Ok putting it that way calms things down a bit. But I still don't like it. I feel like you're really working extremely hard to make the original idea work in context of each new development. Not to say that you're wrong; it sounds logical. But to me this interpretation is still slightly shaky. I'm not saying we need to act on my nervousness, because this is really all I have: a hunch and suspicions. Which are growing more and more with each new development, but hey; nothing said, nothing proven ^^ Aeron Solo wuz here (If you wanna talk)  00:52, December 30, 2013 (UTC)

Numbers 46, 62, and 107

 * Alright, I don't know what to do here. I looked over the same moment in the episode twice. I saw the three Dragon Numbers (46, 62, and 107) become merged into Number 100. There was no indication they went back to Mizael or Kaito at all. Plus, this is a different case then the Arclight Numbers, as Kaito wasn't absorbed into Barian World, but died in front of Mizael on the moon. So, assuming they actually were merged together, who do we say owns them now? And if they were not merged together, how is it justified to say that Mizael owns them? NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs) 14:46, December 31, 2013 (UTC)

They did not merged. I do not know what episode you saw but the 3 cards were floating in the air, activated a big light that hit the floor unlocking Number 100. They did not merge, fused or anything like that. Plus since Kaito seems dead the logical outcome of the Numbers is that they are now with Mizael. And since we follow logic for the owners of Number we give the Numbers to him.

Numbers are very important cards. A duelist cannot leave them on the moon with a dead body. Also Dragluon was Mizael legendary Number and had a deep bound with that dragon. He could not have left it there on the moon. Until proven otherwise leave it with Mizael.

Yano88 (talk • contribs) 18:55, December 31, 2013 (UTC)


 * I looked over that moment again. The 3 cards came together, emitted a huge light, then the lightning appeared and hit the moon. Ever figure that the lightning WAS the dragon? Pay close attention because you can easily notice that there was no sign the dragons returned to their owners, let alone Mizael having them, they simply just disappeared. Plus, if they did go back to their original owners, don't you think Kaito would have just given ALL the dragons to Mizael, instead of just Number 100?

NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs) 20:30, December 31, 2013 (UTC)


 * Don't forget the principle of the Numbers. They're pieces of Astral's memories, and there are 100 originals. Which leads the idea of not only the Numbers merging, but also an Over-Hundred Number merging (though Tachyon is certainly a special case) ending up sounding a bit silly in the proper context. We haven't seen Mizar leave yet either, so really, we don't know what's happening, and we probably won't for another two weeks (I doubt it'll be in the next episode.) I say we leave it as Unknown if we can't agree on it, but that's just my opinion. I'm not an admin, my opinion isn't final. Sanokal K-T (talk • contribs) 00:14, January 1, 2014 (UTC)


 * That is a good point there, Sanokal. They are still on the moon, so we don't know what happens next. Thanks. NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs) 00:29, January 1, 2014 (UTC)