Talk:Signer Dragon

Blackfeather Dragon
i mean come on the page for shining darkness calls bfd crows new trump card.....its common sense that thats the fifth dragon i dont give a crap about speculation...ill tell ya what tho....when it IS revealed that bfd IS the fifth dragon...imma go to each n every single one of u that claime speculation and say HAH I Frecking (abridged Marik) TOLD U SO...that is all--Hairball420 14:38, November 13, 2009 (UTC)


 * This is for discussing the article, not a place to post your own theories. I've cut out the entire section on AFD, PTD and the Earthbound Gods (along with other irrelevent theories people have posted). If the talk isn't relevant to changes we'll be making to the article, it shouldn't be posted. You're "Blackfeather Dragon" discussion is legitimate since you're saying we should change the page to what you're talking about their.
 * I don't see how it saying it's Crow's new trump card is an implication that it's a Signer Dragon. Since he doesn't yet have the Fifth Dragon, it's possible for him to have a trump card that's not a Signer Dragon. If it was meant to be obvious and they want us to know (not think) it's the fifth Dragon, they would have said it. You said they did a good job making people think PTD was the fifth Dragon. It's very possible they could do the same with Blackfeather Dragon. If it does turn out that Blackfeather Dragon is the fifth Dragon, I'd still stand by the decision to have not said it was without confirmation. -- Deltaneos (talk) 15:07, November 13, 2009 (UTC)


 * How is a theory not discussing the article, since it is about one of the dragons? and i stand by what i said...when blackfeather dragon is shown to be the fith dragon, ill tell u and everyone else i told u so...and if im wrong ill gladly admit it...and i take offense to u calling my theory irrelevant when it was since its about the fith dragon!--Hairball420 15:14, November 13, 2009 (UTC)


 * You weren't suggesting we change the article to say the fifth dragon couldve swooped in and rescued AFD while getting captured on. That's why it wasnt able to take card form. Then in current day when the Jibakushin were released it's spirit was let go and perhaps it wandered about looking for a form to take. is it possible that its spirit inhabited PTD? Therefore the discussion was irrelevent to the article. Talk pages are for people to discuss changes to articles, they're not for general talk on the subject of the article.
 * We're not saying you're wrong to say "Blackfeather Dragon" is the fifth Dragon. We don't know if that's true or not. We're saying you're wrong to say it's known that "Blackfeather Dragon" is the fifth Dragon. If it does actually turn out that "Blackfeather Dragon" is the fifth Dragon, you won't "have told me so" anything. At this moment in time we don't know that it's the last dragon or not. If it does turn out that is, it doesn't change the fact that at the time we had this converstion it was unknown.
 * If you have solid proof that is, not there's a good chance it is, the fifth Dragon, then you can say it is not speculation to say "Blackfeather Dragon" is the fifth Dragon. -- Deltaneos (talk) 15:27, November 13, 2009 (UTC)


 * We now have a picture of Blackfeather Dragon and it is NOT the Fifth Dragon.Altyrell 18:53, January 14, 2010 (UTC)

Okay i see that the BFD is more of a winged beast than a dragon but maybe in the yugioh series there maybe an episode where Crow gets the card and its a dragon type

WTH do you mean Crow's not a true Signer?! Oh yeah everyone has a Dragon's Birthmark now, cuz it's such a big thing! I mean, honestly Rua would literally cut off his own arm and switch it with Crow's cuz he wants to be the Fifth Signer! lol

BFD is the fifth dragon... are you stupid?


 * Seriously, F*S, Blackfeather Dragon is NOT the Fifth Dragon, for one important and major reason:
 * 1)  IT LOOKS NOTHING LIKE THE FIFTH BLOODY DRAGON 
 * So, please stop saying it is.Altyrell 03:52, February 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * A Dragon in the possession of a Signer does not make it the 5th Dragon. Rex had "Sun Dragon Inti" and Roman had an undisclosed "main card". Kiryu possesses a Dragon, but he is not a Signer, so it is not the 5th Dragon. The Fifth Dragon must the one here: Fifth Dragon. It was stated by Yanagi (in episode 8) that the appearance of the Dragons has not changed, only their form (ex: statue -> action figure -> card). DemonGodAsura 05:07, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

I think that question has been answered already. Even Jack himself said BFD was a Signer Dragon. Plus, if you really want to get technical with the whole BFD not looking like Golden Gaia Dragon (only god knows why you gave it a name when its not even an anime based card), lets go back to the very beggining of the series when good 'ol Yanagi was first explaining the properties of the Crimson Dragon and the five dragons back in episode 8. This is an exact quote of what he said: "The five dragons have changed their looks over the ages, but still live on." With that said, lets take a look at the history of Golden Gaia Dragon... oh wait, I forgot that there is no history other than it showed up in a vision and that there is a fan made assumption that Power Tool Dragon is a mechanical version of it, and I will emphesize on "fan-made" assumption since nowhere does it say that Power Tool Dragon is a mecha-version of GGD. So instead of using a fan-made assumption that PTD or GGD is and should be the fifth, we should go for what IS said (by a major character not to mention) and make BFD the fifth instead of complaining about its similarity to this GGD thing. If the facts change, then like Deltaneos said, take it down and put up the new info so and if we are all wrong (which has happened plenty of times before), then at least we're the previous facts were based on the anime and not fan-made assumptions like GGD.--Sky Scourge God 02:40, February 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's simply a fan-name for flavor and ease of usage. Nothing to get bent up about, it's been used by a lot of people, but no one is pretending it's something official or putting it in any canonical document.  "Fifth Dragon" is just so soulless and just as non-canonical as the Dragon itself has no official name anyway, so any name used is fine, and so far people are catching on more to Golden Gaia.  Either way, back on THIS topic, what you're saying as already been said by a lot of people.  The problem is naysayer people who don't want to come on board for any amount of bias reasons.  Like I said, waiting to for the facts to go along with their fantasies and rather keep any new facts that get in the way off the page for as long as possible.  ShinobiPhoenix 02:51, February 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * ...isn't that kind of what I'm saying? New facts have been presented, they are valid, and they beat out any other previous facts or assumptions that have come up in the past, and therefore those new facts should be taken into consideration. The reason I brought up the whole GGD issue is because too many people are complaining about it, even though there's literally NOTHING to back it up vs. BFD having more than enough validity to be considered a Signer Dragon with its strongest fact being that a major character called said dragon "The Fifth Signer Dragon". If thats not enough, then I really can't think of anything that is...--Sky Scourge God 03:21, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Episode 95
From todays episode dont understand. If Blackfeather Dragon is not the fifth Dragon, then why Crow´s, Yusei and Jack birthmarks reacted to it as if it happens when a Signer is dueling with its correrspondant Dragon? DracoX 16:54, February 3, 2010 (UTC)

I've copied this over from Talk:Signers. It seems better suited here. -- Deltaneos (talk) 19:11, February 3, 2010 (UTC) "when he saw Blackfeather Dragon? he said anything about Signers but I didn't understand it well. did he said that Blackfeather Dragon is the Fifth Dragon? Because people are adding Blackfeather Dragon to the Five Dragons and Signers chart. OMG! You did it 17:36, February 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * Didnt understand neither, however Yusei and his Birtmark reacting to its presence denotes this fact "A Signer's birthmark throbs and glows while they are in close proximity of one of the Dragons when it is fighting with a great deal of determination, particularly for the sake of their Signer". Also pointing out Crow´s own Crimson Dragon mark is what made Blackbird reveal this card, as it was apparently acting as a password. DracoX 17:54, February 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * Then people should stop adding Blackfeather Dragon being the fifth dragon, there is no enough proof yet. We know, Yanagi said that their looks may change within the time, that means that either Power Tool or Blackfeather is the Fifth. We'll have to wait until Blackfeather Dragon's next appearance. OMG! You did it 18:02, February 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well is not like the Dragon we seen, but cant deny that Crow´s Signer Dragon. Othwerwise why Crow´s Crimson Dragon mark acted as a password to unlock that card on his Duel Runner. And cant deny what already mentioned also about Yusei and Jack´s marks reacting to it. DracoX 18:15, February 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * I still don't believing that until we see the subbed episode. OMG! You did it 18:29, February 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * Was there anything else said in the episode to imply that it's one of the Five Dragons? The dragon birthmarks aren't known to exclusively react to the presence of Signer Dragons. Aki's started to glow when her powers manifested. They've also lit-up in the presence of Dark Signers or when a new Signer appears. I think all we can conclude from birthmarks reacting to it is that it's important.
 * I'll admit it looks likely to be the fifth Dragon at this stage, but they still haven't said directly that it is (or have they?). And there's still the fact that it looks completely different than the fifth Dragon we've seen in the flashbacks. -- Deltaneos (talk) 19:04, February 3, 2010 (UTC)"


 * People are FAR AND ABOVE too hung up on it "looking like GGD." Why would it?  Wouldn't that take away from Power Tool and its importance?  Not to mention it should belong to Rudger.  Crow would have his own, he is the current Signer and his Dragon would be a Signer Dragon with him.  Jack not only stated in his own words that it was (and many people have done the translations for it already, I guess others are demanding correct subs), but the mere fact that the Marks glow (not just Crow's, but at least Yusei and Jack's start burning) as a show of protecting their fellow Signer is rather blatant.  I say again, the hater-aid needs to stop.  Crow is the Fifth Signer, period.  His Dragon is HIS Signer Dragon.   That does NOT take away from there being an "original" Fifth, though really it would be more proper to say "previous" Fifth Dragon.  It should NEVER look like the original because it would take away from PTD's importance.  As I will continue to say "The Dragons are for the Signers, they are no hoes to be transferred around to new pimps.  The pimp brings his own hoes." ShinobiPhoenix 23:23, February 3, 2010 (UTC)

Disregard the above. Jack's dialogue was "あれがシグナーの５体目の龍", which means ""This is the Fifth Signer Dragon". That's solid evidence that it is a Signer Dragon. -- Deltaneos (talk) 23:19, February 3, 2010 (UTC)

That point is considered even if it happens to be that the writers are using that Dragon as a substitute for the original fifth Dragon for a reason. Also to be taken is the fact that mentionesd is Jack and Yusei marks reacting kind of like they did when Akiza summoned Black Rose Dragon. DracoX 01:24, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Premature release (rephrasing required)
If we want to be incredibly anal, there is a section of this page that reads, "So far 5 of the Five Dragons have been released in the OCG and TCG...". This is technically not true (yet), as Blackfeather Dragon does not see an official release until February 20th, 2010 in Japan. If, however, by "release" in the card games it is simply meant that they are known, then nothing further needs changing.

Gerhardified 23:13, February 3, 2010 (UTC)

Put Protection Back
Some users keep adding Blackfeather Dragon as the Fifth Dragon even if there is no proof. I think that we have to wait again and put the Protection thing back to stop fans from adding Blackfeather Dragon.OMG! You did it 23:17, February 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * Agreed, cause to me, we do not have enough proof.Altyrell 23:19, February 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * Jack's dialogue was "あれがシグナーの５体目の龍", which means "This is the fifth Signer Dragon". -- Deltaneos (talk) 23:22, February 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * I understand, and the possibility that they could write that in but have him mistaken the Marks reacting for the 5th Dragon. I'm sorry for wanting to wait until we got further proof and reasoning as to why the 5th Dragon that was shown battling the Earthbounds in the past via Luna's vision is different in looks to the Blackfeather Dragon.Altyrell 23:27, February 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * Not having backstory does NOT change the facts. You might never have the answer you seek in the time you want it, but that doesn't change what Blackfeather Dragon is.  And the answer is extraordinary.  The Dragon is set when you are made a Signer.  It does not FOLLOW Signers around, but your Dragon will eventually find it.  The whole show is built on spirituality.  What is fact is that the battle has happened every 5000 years, that would mean 10000 years ago as well as 20000.  What this means is that there's no way (until told) to know that these Dragons were at the previous battle, nor does it take in account what happens when a Dragon is lost, destroyed or a new Signer is given his.  Other than that dream, all is speculation so no one has the right to say something is any more set in stone than another "theory."  All we have is to take what is in the NOW and go forward.  Looking like GGD is irrelvant as GGD does not belong to Crow, he has HIS OWN Signer Dragon.  GGD technically belongs to Rudger and he is lost.  ShinobiPhoenix 23:36, February 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * This probably isn't the place to ask, but what the hell is a "GGD"? --Blue (Talk) 23:38, February 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * "Golden Gaia Dragon" a fan name for the other fifth Dragon. -- Deltaneos (talk) 01:15, February 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * I've locked this page and the Signers article. One on each side of the argument, until we can come to some sort of agreement. -- Deltaneos (talk) 23:55, February 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * What agreement? This is like Congress passing a law that supports religious arguments on one issue and science and fact on the same one with a different law.  This is just hating.  Plain and simple.  Nothing more than people ignoring facts because they don't play into their own fantasies.  Just like Crow being a Signer, Rua not being a Signer, Godwin not being a Signer, 4Kids CLAIMING that Godwin was the Signer only to be wrong and had to take it back since they were just pulling more of their "we don't like character development" crap.  Just like 5D's taking over and GX getting cancelled.  The fact remains that until they give an explanation, we have to go with exactly where the story is at present.  You can't middle-ground people who aren't ever coming to the middle.  Else you get the equivalent of what is happening right now on the Health Care Debate.  How is it if the opposite had been true ( as it was with Rua), people went along with it (the ones who said he was vs the ones who said he wasn't), but when it comes to the more logical side being right, suddenly it's about playing Obama.  ShinobiPhoenix 00:07, February 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * Because saying "Power Tool Dragon" was the fifth Dragon was introducing unproven facts, making it completely out of the question. Saying that it's not 100% known if BFD is the fifth Dragon is being cautious and not introducing unproven facts. One was fan theory vs. unconfirmed. This is whether or not we're to accept something questionable that was said in the anime as a fact. The latter is something that is worth discussing.
 * For anyone only reading now, believe it or not, I am the same side as ShinobiPhoenix on saying that we should call BFD a Signer Dragon.
 * I think we should follow what's said in the anime. We should follow what we're told, otherwise we may as well doubt everything we hear in the series. If we find out later, that he was wrong, it's not us who're at fault. -- Deltaneos (talk) 01:15, February 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * At this point, I'm pretty sure this is turning into the Smoke Monster of 5D's. We may never hear the answer and the writers may even PURPOSELY never tell us to make us go more crazy (we watch because we want answers, Lost, Heroes, Decade, all do it), so we can't go around stalling an article because people want to wait until facts catch up to their fantasies .  Godwin was wrong and we just went and did the edits that were supposed be done and when he was turned into a Signer for 3 episodes it was changed again and when he lost it and it went to Crow it was changed YET again.  Besides facts, we went with it because they like Godwin and don't like Crow or Rua.  That's the only reason we're getting people fighting this hard about it.  They don't like Crow, they don't like his Deck winning tournaments and they don't like his Dragon (not until someone breaks it and suddenly it's broken).  We edit AFTER the facts prove the point.  We shouldn't leave it open to discussion when there's several concrete facts in our face.  I'm all for locking it if that needs to be done to prevent the obvious vandalism, but it should be locked with the correct information on there.  ShinobiPhoenix 02:32, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Can the Discussion Page be cleaned some?
I mean to get rid of some of the information that is either out dated or doesn't belong (ie bringing Real World Political talk to prove a point).Altyrell 01:21, February 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * It was added as a contribution to a relevant argument. I don't think it should be removed. -- Deltaneos (talk) 01:27, February 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * Not to mention who gives one the right to think you can edit other people's statements in the talk area. I guess I should edit your statements that I don't agree with or understand.  Oh wait, that would be wrong, literally and morally.  This isn't the article itself (which for the most part is supposed to be based more on cold facts), it's discussion with both relative discussion and comparisons to similar situations to better move forward to a proper solution.   "He who does not look back at others' mistakes is doomed to repeat them."   It's there because that is EXACTLY how people are acting on this case and it almost looks like they are trying to down the same path.  Learn from those who already screwed up something for the rest of it due to their own bias and proclivities.  I guess trial lawyers should stop citing previous cases and verdicts when debating in courts.  Leaving opening a discussion that is based on fact for a bunch of people who would prefer to ignore those facts if it will allow them to "keep the hope" longer or disrupt due process for what they prefer WOULD happen is exactly what I was referring to.  The same applies here as in "real life."  ShinobiPhoenix 01:44, February 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * First, what i meant was that not every Forum User is from the United States or could care less about Politics. Another reason why i specifically mentioned the Political Comment is because it could possibly take the Discussion Off-Topic and onto Discussions about Politics or in this regard it might go off-topic and onto Health Care or whatever. Second, reason why people should be careful when bringing in other comparisons is that it can lead to Discussions about those comparisons. I simply asked that it be gotten rid of so that it didn't accidentally derail the Discussion Page.Altyrell 01:53, February 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * It's not whether you care or don't care about the subject of the comparison, it's a comparison for context. Context of being people being counterproductive and disruptive out of bias. What makes you think I'm American?  I live in England.  I could easily make a different comparison, but the point the comparison needed to be made and I picked one with a strong and current resonance with a similar problem because we are going down that path to where nothing would ever ACTUALLY be agreed on for the same reason as the problem being compared.  Blackfeather Dragon vs Golden Gaia Dragon may NEVER been resolved in such a way or promptly enough to satisfy fans so allowing people to disrupt the current facts to let them save face and harbor their own bias disbelief for a little while longer is just the same.  When the facts reflected CHANGE, that should be when edits happen, not arguing about it before all the way until your point if any proves true.  ShinobiPhoenix 02:01, February 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * This section itself is much more off-topic. Forget about it and focus on discussing whether or not we're to say that "Black Feather Dragon" is the fifth Dragon. -- Deltaneos (talk) 02:09, February 4, 2010 (UTC)