Talk:Number 17: Leviathan Dragon

Type
Are you guys sure this card's Type is Dragon? Is there any proof to that, aside from its name? Its name cannot be a proof, because Brionac, Dragon of the Ice Barrier and Aqua Dragon says hi. Order (talk • contribs) 15:14, February 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * It is a Dragon-type monster. Check the Japanese name in the card and on the Dragon page. The characters are the same. --NejiHyuga900 (talk | contributions) "I am the Thunder Dragon!" 23:50, April 13, 2011 (UTC)

Your reply is too late actually, I asked it during February, when the only pic we have is the manga pic :p But that's okay Order (talk • contribs) 14:36, April 16, 2011 (UTC)

Name
You missed the "No. 17" ... I've edited it :)) Gotikaster 22:15, February 15, 2011 (UTC)


 * Why is there a comma after the "No. 17"? That's not present in the Japanese name. -- Deltaneos (talk) 22:24, February 15, 2011 (UTC)


 * In Shriek's website appears with a comma Gotikaster 22:26, February 15, 2011 (UTC)


 * I see that, but why are Shriek adding the comma? They've also listed the Japanese name with no comma. -- Deltaneos (talk) 22:30, February 15, 2011 (UTC)


 * What is with the numbers? Fryhop (talk • contribs) 22:13, February 18, 2011 (UTC


 * Something to do with an entity called "Numbers". That's who possesses Ryoga. As ZEXAL progresses, we'll know more. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 23:09, February 18, 2011 (UTC)

It was always Leviath, even in the OCG.
リバイス = Ribaisu; L = R; Ribaisu = Libaisu; S = TH; Libaisu = Libaithu; B = V; Libaithu = Livaithu; Vowels at the end can be ignored; Livaithu = Livaith; Livaith sounds like Leviath, so it's not a name change, they're just correcting the fan interpretation.

So it was always Leviath. Revise was an incrrect translation and we should be ashamed of ourselves. Burnpsy (talk • contribs) 21:27, May 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * Where are the proof that you get the translation? I see no links from the site, no evidence that it's not Revise. So if you don't have any proof, then stop doing this foolish thing! -- F  r  e  d  C  a  t  21:28, May 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * I send that right back at you. Do YOU have proof that the fan translation was correct? The Japanese represent TH with an S all the time. The mix-up for L and R is infamous. The thing with V was incorporated into the interpretation as "Revise" as well. Burnpsy (talk • contribs) 21:32, May 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * L and R theory was already confirmed on twin part, they got L out of those things. Revise Dragon is NOT, I repeat that, NOT a fan translation, it's directly from SHRIEK OCG SITE! GO THERE AND READ THAT SITE BY YOURSELF! -- F  r  e  d  C  a  t  21:36, May 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * Shriek is not an official source. Burnpsy (talk • contribs) 21:39, May 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes, Shriek - twoday is an official source. -- F  r  e  d  C  a  t  21:41, May 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * Um, it's not. Shriek only does translations from V-Jump Magazine, so the official source are V-Jump Magazines --DirgtheDarkMonarch (talk • contribs) 21:45, May 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * Sorry? Are you official stupidity? shriek.twoday.net is an official site that we always using to update this site. Revise Dragon's original name STAY. -- F  r  e  d  C  a  t  21:46, May 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * It's not an official site. It's run by people who are kind enough to provide translations of cards. They're NOT affilated with Konami, so they're not "official" --DirgtheDarkMonarch (talk • contribs) 21:49, May 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * Then you're an idiot. Deltaneos considered shriek.twoday official, Yami-Wheeler considered too. Therefore I considered it as official site. It had helping us get all pictures and names as well as lores update so far. Without it, this site broken and dead for good. -- F  r  e  d  C  a  t  21:51, May 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * The fact that you use it does not make it OFFICIAL. It would be official only if Konami approved it, which didn't happen yet.

Besides, there's always Manjyome for news. Argument invalid. --DirgtheDarkMonarch (talk • contribs) 21:52, May 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * Manjyome take all information from Shriek, therefore making shriek.twoday official source, you lost. -- F  r  e  d  C  a  t  21:53, May 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * Ok, so why do you think Shriek is "official"? Because you use it? If so, I can call my grocery shop an "official grocery shop of town X" because I go there? --DirgtheDarkMonarch (talk • contribs) 21:55, May 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * Fine, if you considered them unofficial, then why not going on the thousand and thousand of articles that HAD shriek's translation names and remove them off yourself? I doubt you could make it in 3 days within a worth of edits. We used Shriek/Manjyome translation just because they got a good information and etc. that we can use to help all America voicing people understand what other languages' translates have told. So if you have no more objection, then sit down and cool your sweat heads already! If it's Revise, then it's Revise. End of story, you cannot make it "Leviath" yadda yadda! -- F  r  e  d  C  a  t  22:01, May 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * Note that the topic right above us pointed out an error on Shriek. Reliability =/= impossible to make errors. Also, the fact that the name was written in Katakana means that it's particularly hard to get the right name from it. The official TCG name being Leviath makes it clear that of the tens of ways to interpret that Katakana, the correct way is Leviath. Therefore, the name was Leviath in the OCG as well. Burnpsy (talk • contribs) 22:06, May 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * Then go ahead, fixing the site all you want! THERE ARE THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF ARTICLES WITH SHRIEK'S CUTE TRANSLATION NAMES! If you don't like this Revise Dragon's crap name, then why not remove them ALL, instead of just THIS SHIT ARTICLE!? If you cannot, then just accept the damned name and move on, you jerks. -- F  r  e  d  C  a  t  22:09, May 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * You know that we're arguing only over this? Most of the time Shriek is 90% correct. Also, it's not "thousands and thousands of articles with Shriek's translation", because there are only a few, below 100 for sure. --DirgtheDarkMonarch (talk • contribs) 22:12, May 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * Guys, can you please relax and calm down until we get Delt opinion? Please never forget that we're all here because we share the same passion. We shouldn't get mad at each other. Try to relax and talk to each other with respect. Wilimut Talk Mail Paris, 22:14, May 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * We're trying to calmly explain it to him, but it seems that he's just too stupid to understand what we say --DirgtheDarkMonarch (talk • contribs) 22:15, May 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks, Wilimut, but they are idiots, as they don't understand the reason why this site used shriek's translation. If they don't approve it, then they should go fixing them all by themselves and let's see if they can win the battle. -- F  r  e  d  C  a  t  22:16, May 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * Only FredCat is being insulting in the slightest. I'm fine with waiting. Just one more thing. http://shriek.twoday.net/stories/6253365/ Shriek mis-translated Duality's Japanese name. The page for it lists the correct one. Why shouldn't we do it for Revise? Burnpsy (talk • contribs) 22:16, May 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * See, DirgtheDarkMonarch, you're using an insulting word: "stupid" / FredCat, you keep saying that they are "idiots". This is not fully respectful. FredCat, please, calm down and wait for Delt. It's sad that people here reach the point of fighting and arguing about something everyone likes... Wilimut Talk Mail Paris, 22:19, May 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * Pot of Duality's japan name was there, so is all other cards' names. Wash your eyeballs with bleach, for crying out loudly. -- F  r  e  d  C  a  t  22:21, May 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * Shriek lists its name as "Pot of Greederosity". In reality, it's "Pot of Greed and Modesty". Undeniable proof that Shriek can be wrong sometimes --DirgtheDarkMonarch (talk • contribs) 22:23, May 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * That's multiple meanings. It's like a "Run", it have multiple defines. For one part, it is an action word. On other hand, it's a affect word. You run away. I run for the president. The batteries is running out soon. Therefore Japan's translation ain't really perfect when coming to different languages. Shriek read that as "Greederosity" while other read it as "Geed and Modesty". So deal with it. -- F  r  e  d  C  a  t  22:27, May 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * You said "Therefore Japan's translation ain't really perfect when coming to different languages." Isn't that EXACTLY what we're arguing about? You just contradicted yourself, so your whole argument fells apart. Oh, "contradiction" might be a hard word for you, so let's just say "error". Also, if Shriek says it's "Greederosity", why you don't go to Duality's page and edit it? --DirgtheDarkMonarch (talk • contribs) 22:30, May 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * That Japan's Translation name of "Pot of Duality" was changed by PsychicKid, so argue with him for that reason. The translation outside Shriek theory is actually true, but this site still accept the nearly-specify name and lores from Shriek all of the times. Let's see if you can translate the poem from Japan into English, without break the rhyme... -- F  r  e  d  C  a  t  22:34, May 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * Why we'd have to argue? He's right, just as we are. You know, better log out, go outside, take a nap, rethinkk everything and come back. Thanks you for your attention. --DirgtheDarkMonarch (talk • contribs) 22:37, May 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * No, the Japan's original change stay here, you cannot remove it at ALL. I am going to put both original and reality translation in that Duality's article and get over with it. It's just an evening here, not night. I only sleep during NIGHT TIME. So you shut the heck up and let the pro do the work. Delta would like Revise Dragon to stay in. -- F  r  e  d  C  a  t  22:40, May 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * Deltaneos said that both are valid but Leviath is the correct one. Read better. Burnpsy (talk • contribs) 22:41, May 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * Screw you, burn-dude... I still vote the original name in. -- F  r  e  d  C  a  t  22:42, May 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * Me and burnpsy vote for Leviath. That's 2-1. We win --DirgtheDarkMonarch (talk • contribs) 22:43, May 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * I believe "Revise" is the correct translation. Several translators I've seen have stated that "Leviath" is technically accurate, but is not a translation any of them would consider. Kevin Tewart also said that "Leviath" is correct, and he's well-known to be full of shit. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 00:26, May 19, 2011 (UTC)


 * Thank you, Cheese... Now that's tie of vote. That's why I believe that Shriek ALWAYS win. -- F  r  e  d  C  a  t  00:27, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
 * Though I believe he's right in this case, he isn't always right. Regardless of which name we end up using, I believe the other name should be retained in the article in some form via the "altname" parameter". Everyone sort of needs to calm down about this though. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 00:33, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
 * Understand, and I need to get one for Pot of Duality too, it had original name before change into some silly reality name - "Pot of Greed and Modesty"... -- F  r  e  d  C  a  t  00:35, May 19, 2011 (UTC)


 * FredCat, Deltaneos makes it 3-2. Also, Greederosity just has no excuse to stay on the page. If you knew some Japanese, or even just ran the Kanji through Google Translate, you'd get "Greed and Modesty Pot". Burnpsy (talk • contribs) 00:59, May 19, 2011 (UTC)


 * Dude, you're burn the solve off the page. So stop being so immature, I don't care if it's fan-made. Shriek is prove to be good information and details. You cannot remove it off after Cheese proved that it need to have an alternate name. If you don't want it there, then TALK about it, not rip it off from there. -- F  r  e  d  C  a  t  01:02, May 19, 2011 (UTC)


 * You're acting like a random user has power higher than an admin's opinion. I have no problem with Revise Dragon staying as an alt. My problem ATM is Greederosity not being a correct translation. Kanji is a completely different beast from Katakana, so you should just stop unless you know the language. Burnpsy (talk • contribs) 01:04, May 19, 2011 (UTC)


 * Delt said that both translations are accurate, but that "Leviath" is probably more accurate, did he not? So "Revise" should be retained in some fashion and the "altname" parameter does that. Nevermind, ignore this. Replies are coming in so fast that they're no longer accurate.Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 01:05, May 19, 2011 (UTC)


 * Guess what, you're not controlling the site you want, so back off, newb. -- F  r  e  d  C  a  t  01:06, May 19, 2011 (UTC)


 * As I said, I have no problem with putting Revise as an alt translation, as long as it's not being mis-represented as the actual name. My problem now is that FredCat's putting Greederosity back on the Duality page. Burnpsy (talk • contribs) 01:09, May 19, 2011 (UTC)


 * "Pot of Greederosity" was original Japan's translation, "Pot of Greed and Modesty" is English correct translation, before changed into "Pot of Duality", so leave it in. -- F  r  e  d  C  a  t  01:11, May 19, 2011 (UTC)


 * That depends. If that' the actual translation, fine. But if Shriek was flat-out wrong, we shouldn't keep the information (the rediret should be retained though, assuming it's a common mistranslation). Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 01:14, May 19, 2011 (UTC)


 * No, "Greederosity" was a fan-term that Shriek coined. Now that we have the correct translation for that, nobody uses "Greederosity", and both the Kanji and Hiragana for the name do not support "Greederosity" at all, it's just left behind as a fan-term Shreik coined. Thus, it shouldn't be on the wiki. It's a completely different beast from "Revise Dragon", which actually can be right is one looks at the Katakana, since Katakana gives phonetics, not meaning. As such, you are the wrong one there. Burnpsy (talk • contribs) 01:15, May 19, 2011 (UTC)


 * Such a loudly mouth, ain't he, right - Cheese? I am still call "Pot of Duality" Pot of Greederosity though... -- F  r  e  d  C  a  t  01:16, May 19, 2011 (UTC)


 * If what he says is true, then it should be removed, IMO. Though, again, if Shriek coined the term and it was commonly used, the redirect should be retained (or created if there isn't one already). Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 01:18, May 19, 2011 (UTC)


 * I would advise both of you to stop editing the "Pot of Duality" page until this is sorted out. Otherwise, it may end up locked (though I can't lock it myself, since I'm involved in the dispute). Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 01:20, May 19, 2011 (UTC)


 * I would once he get his brain straight. He loudly declared that Kuriboh = Dark Magician... which is completely wrong. Dark Magician is magician and Kuriboh's just furball freak. -- F  r  e  d  C  a  t  01:21, May 19, 2011 (UTC)


 * That's not what he meant. He was comparing the situation here to someone calling those two cards the same. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 01:22, May 19, 2011 (UTC)


 * I already called Deltaneos for that one. Still, FredCat's logic for putting Greederosity on the page is faulty. It should be on because he uses it? He doesn't own the site as much as I don't.

Also, I gave the example that if I called Kuriboh by the name Dark Magician, we wouldn't add that to its page. Burnpsy (talk • contribs) 01:23, May 19, 2011 (UTC)


 * Have D-Neos answered yet? Nope! That name is just there, and if you want a prove why Greederosity is fake name, other than Shriek and it buddies since you called them unofficial and shit, give me a prove why it is not real name. Thanks and shut up if you have no evidence for them. -- F  r  e  d  C  a  t  01:24, May 19, 2011 (UTC)


 * As I said, try translating the name for yourself for a sec. Use your knowledge of Japanese to translate that Kanji/Hiragana. You won't get Greederosity, I guarantee it. Burnpsy (talk • contribs) 01:26, May 19, 2011 (UTC)


 * Ain't ask for that, I asked for the link of site of prove where you get that evidence. Simple translation won't help. As many Google translation are untrusted, in my view. -- F  r  e  d  C  a  t  01:28, May 19, 2011 (UTC)


 * I didn't say you did. And try running it through this site: http://jisho.org/ That isn't Google Translate. Nor is the Detailed Word Info button on this site: http://nihongo.j-talk.com/kanji/ Run the Kanji through the second site, and it says 強欲 = Greed, 謙虚 = Modesty, 壺 = Jar/Pot. It breaks down the term and gives the meaning of the separate pieces. Burnpsy (talk • contribs) 01:34, May 19, 2011 (UTC)


 * So how did "and" plus "of" come out of that current name? "Pot of Greed and Modesty"... It's under English Translation though it's still Japan's clearly to understand translation. "Pot of Greederosity" was and is still original first revealing translation which the expert had believing to prove. -- F  r  e  d  C  a  t  01:36, May 19, 2011 (UTC)