Forum:Testudo Erat Numen, Lava Golem and Syncros

I started a thread a long time ago about this card but I can't find it anymore so I'm starting a new one.

What was concluded in the last thread was that if I control Testudo Erat Numen, I can send it to the graveyard to syncro summon a monster with 1800 ATK or more since it is not on the field anymore when the syncro monster gets on the field.

This would also mean that if my opponent has Lava Golem in his hand, he could send my Testudo Erat Numen to the graveyard to special summon it.

Now I just read the rulings about Rivalry of Warlords and they contradict the way the game works with Testudo Erat Numen. Rivalry of Warlords's effect is that both players can only control one type of monster at a time each. Here is the part in question:

"Synchro Monsters are chosen before the Synchro Material Monsters are sent to the Graveyard, so you cannot Synchro Summon a Synchro Monster of a Type that isn’t the Type of the monsters you currently control while "Rivalry of Warlords" is active."

In other words, this means that the syncro monster must be a legal choice according to the restrictions that are in effect on the field BEFORE sending the syncro materials to the graveyard.

Since it can't be selected in the first place, there is no sending of any monster that occurs since you can't send monsters from your side of the field to the graveyard for no reason.

Now let's get back to Testudo Erat Numen. Why can I send Testudo Erat Numen to the graveyard with a tuner to special summon a syncro monster if the syncro monster I choose to summon is not a valid selection to begin with?

You don't send random monsters first and then look at the extra deck if a monster fits the level.

If such logic is allowed, it would change the whole game. It would mean that Player A's Tsukuyomi can flip player B's Dark Simorgh face-down since having Dark Simorgh face-down would allow Player A to set cards face-down.

The ruling on Testudo Erat Numen doesn't make sense because the selection of the syncro monster occurs BEFORE Testudo leaves the field and if the monster has too much ATK, the sending can't occur because the syncro monster had to be selected first and could not.

The release of the restriction happens after the move has started, but the move was illegal to do in the first place. That is why Tsukuyomi can't flip Dark Simorgh face-down to allow to play cards face-down again. That is why Testudo Erat Numen can't be sent to the graveyard for the special summon of a 1800 or + ATK monster to allow the special summon of 1800 or + ATK monster again.

That is why you can't activate Share the Pain if the opponent doesn't have a monster on his side of the field, even though you're about to chain a trap that will put a monster on his side of the field at resolution of Share the Pain.

The conditions must be correct BEFORE the start of anything. You can't start the process of an illegal move even if it becomes legal by it's result or cost.

The rulings on Rivalry of Warlords have confirmed this, and it makes a lot more sense than the rulings of Testudo Erat Numen and I'm about to send this whole message to Konami or whoever is responsible for the rulings, and if they disagree, that means the whole yugioh game has no solid base for any of its rulings. I speak french and I'm fed up with all the exceptions there are in its grammar rules. In yugioh too? FML

Sincerely, Rayved (talk • contribs) 05:28, March 15, 2012 (UTC)