User talk:Cheesedude

Welcome to my talk page. Feel free to leave any messages below. However, do not ask me for help with your Deck. I have not actively played the TCG in a very long time, and have not kept up with current rulings. If you leave me a message, I will put your talk page on my watchlist. You may respond on my talk page or your talk page. I will check both.

Toon Roll-Back
I happened to land on Toon Roll-Back's page by chance, and I couldn't help but notice something: the effect given doesn't match the actual card text. At all.

This is what it actually says:


 * Activate when a Toon Monster's attack is negated by an opponent's Trap. This turn, you can conduct your Battle Phase again.

...Which I'll admit appears to be at least in part a "silly anime effect." I say "negate," which is 無効, but what it actually says is 終了, "end". And yes, Alister/Amelda plays it in response to Kaiba's "Negate Attack," which uses both ("Negate the attack and end the Battle Phase.")

So yeah. Wasn't sure what to do here. I take it if I see card text that's egregiously wrong like this, I have carte blanche to fix it, right? (Worse yet, there's an Italian translation based on the incorrect English effect...)--Ryusui (talk • contribs) 21:42, July 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * Interesting (I say that a lot, don't I?) Yeah, go ahead and fix it, by all means. I recall the dubbed version of that episode. Alister specifically mentioning that his monsters couldn't attack again, which was used as the rationale for why he brought out Toon DMG by Tributing Toon BEWD. I don't know what the Japanese version said. But there have been cases where all of a card's effect is simply not written on the card. And not only in the old series. It happened about a month back in ZEXAL with "Bubble Bringer". For now I'd just remove that part altogether. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 22:51, July 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * Done. Thanks.--Ryusui (talk • contribs) 23:00, July 14, 2012 (UTC)

GX Episode 147
In the notes section, 1exodiafani made a note about the effect of "Advanced Crystal Beast Ruby Carbuncle" and how the effect of "Crystal Beast Ruby Carbuncle" is used in the real game even though the Advanced Crystal Beasts are anime only cards. They are technically not the same, so I don't understand why there is a note there. I removed it, but FredCat100 undid that because he claimed it was like a normal Crystal Beast monster. The Advanced Ruby Carbuncle page clearly shows its lore as how it works in the anime(it isn't a real card). Can you help fix this confusion mess?Cardsknower (talk • contribs) 02:46, July 15, 2012 (UTC)Cardsknower


 * Yeah, remove that note. You're right. The lore of the Advanced Crystal Beasts is not the same. I'll talk to Fred if it's an issue (though I think he has my talk page on his watchlist, so he'll probably see this). Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 02:49, July 15, 2012 (UTC)


 * Saw that - but you can't edit my talk page anymore, not till MediaWiki hauling their ass out. -- i  F  r  e  d  C  a  t  04:04, July 15, 2012 (UTC)

Episode 140 page
"Fossil Dyna Pachycephalo" is shown with 1300 ATK in the original due to an error created in the previous episode. This creates some confusion as this should have changed the outcome of the Duel. The dub used the TCG/OCG of "Pachycephalo" since that error was fixed in that version of that episode. Should we make a error section in that page about this or no since this creates some confusion?Cardsknower (talk • contribs) 02:55, July 15, 2012 (UTC)Cardsknower
 * The writer was fixing that kind of error to prevent Hadou Judai from losing the duel - till his final duel as being tyrant. Just read the note for further reasons. -- i  F  r  e  d  C  a  t  04:05, July 15, 2012 (UTC)


 * I think it' explained well enough in the note. You could put the contents of the note in an error section and link to that from the Featured Duel if you want. I don't think it matters where it is as long as its there. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 14:13, July 15, 2012 (UTC)

Crystal Counter
It was mentioned in episode 148 page that Crystal Counter can't put five Crystal Beasts in the Spell & Trap Zone if it is the only Spell/Trap you have out because this card hadn't fully resolved yet, but the Yubel-possessed Jesse was able to do that in episode 148(this would be impossible unless "Crystal Counter" is destroyed by a card such as "Mystical Space Typhoon" when it is activated). I think this was due to rulings that apply only to the anime. Perhaps Spells and Traps in the anime that are not Equips Cards or Continuous Cards are sent to the Graveyard immediately after their effects activate and after the costs have been met. If so, that would make more sense on how this process could be done.Cardsknower (talk • contribs) 00:01, July 16, 2012 (UTC)Cardsknower


 * Eh, I'm not sure I buy that. The hologram card usually stays face-up until the effect resolves. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 00:06, July 16, 2012 (UTC)


 * Well according to the duel featured, the Yubel-possessed Jesse placed five Crystal Beasts in his Spell & Trap Card Zone via "Crystal Counter". A note in the notes section claims only four Crystal Beasts could have been placed there when this occurs as "Crystal Counter" was still face-up and didn't fully resolve yet at the timingCardsknower (talk • contribs) 00:25, July 16, 2012 (UTC)Cardsknower

Episode 157 page
Were there actually two "Rigorous Reavers" in that shot or no because I can make out one, but another card that should be "Rigorous Reaver" is hard to tell.Cardsknower (talk • contribs) 01:53, July 17, 2012 (UTC)Cardsknower


 * Check the second picture on talk page. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 04:48, July 17, 2012 (UTC)

Two questions
So, got two things to ask, but well, I'm gonna ask both in the same section, whatever.
 * First, a question just moved by curiosity. Do you have any acknowledge about Japanese? 'Cuz I noticed you were also editing things about ZEXAL 64 when it was just released, including adding articles for the cards with the Japanese names in.


 * Second, well, it's not exactly a question. I don't know, I think I'm needing some general help in the manga. Like, not finding information or translating, but putting everything here. :P I have some free time to get info, translate, and add here overall, but not enough to, for example, add it in every character's biography, and in other pages. I also was never much confident about my summaries... So I wonder if there is anyone who can help me, like, just reviewing the texts, taking the information I add in the chapters' articles and add them in the characters' biographies as well, things like that. There's also, for example, the D1GP page, which has its history incomplete, but everything is on the chapters' articles, one just would need to look there and add here. I recently completed the summaries of Ranks 8, 9, 10 and 11, but didn't update anything in the characters' pages, except for a small thing in Mr. Heartland's and in the Theme Park's; but there are some important additional information on those, specially Astral, who had much of his personality revealed in Rank 9 and 11. Also, before them, as I never had much time, I used to just copy from the chapters' articles and paste in the characters' biographies, but I don't think it gets good like that, so... :P Oh, this became a big paragraph xD. LegenaryAsariUgetsu (talk • contribs) 00:51, July 18, 2012 (UTC)


 * I create the anime card articles each week based on the list NeoArkadia posts in the episode topics at Neo Ark Cradle (assuming someone else doesn't beat me too it, of course). I have what I would call cursory knowledge of phonetic Japanese, mostly just from editing here. I cannot tell one Japanese character from the next though. Any translation corrections I do are either from a translator (either Ark or Ryusui) or from Google translate (not directly, of course. But it usually spits out something passable that I can then change to be worded better and it lets me detect effects that we have documented that are just plain wrong).


 * I can look some of that stuff over at one point or another. I really do need to catch up on the mangas, so when I do, I can go through and add some more things. If you need more help, I believe that TheScarecrow14 follows the manga, he occasionally posts in those topics at Neo Ark Cradle (he's Gimmick there). Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 00:59, July 18, 2012 (UTC)


 * Oh, I see. A small tip to you, which I noticed you mistook in the last cards, about phonetic. When there is a double vowel, like, for example, カー, which is Kaa (the ー in kana always doubles the previous vowel, but be careful not to mistake it with a normal -), you should write Kā instead; same goes for "ou", which you write ō. I don't remember well if there are any exceptions, but even if there are, for like 90% of the cases, you do like that.


 * Wait, Gimmick is Scarecrow? o.O I had no idea! I really find him often at NAC. Yeah, I guess I'm gonna talk to him as well. By the way, if you wanna catch up on the manga, for ZEXAL, besides Ranks 2, 3, 4 and 6, everything is already completely complete 8D. *proud* The most important things about Ranks 2, 3 and 4 I wrote down there, and for Rank 6, the only important thing besides the Duel is Tokunosuke's past, which I added in his article (manga section) with Spectertv's help. If you would like to catch up reading the articles, you could also review them at the same time. ;D Although if you rather read the chapters, at NAC currently Ranks 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 are not available in English. :P LegenaryAsariUgetsu (talk • contribs) 02:21, July 18, 2012 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I know that. The thing is, I don't actually know how to type those characters. When I add the romaji, I copy those characters from other card articles that have them already, if I can think of one off the top of my head that would have that.
 * I just realized it the other day. He happened to mention editing the wiki in one of the ZEXAL threads and I checked the history of that wiki article and found Scarecrow's name. I asked him, he confirmed it. And ok, that helps quite a bit. It's good to know what I should focus on. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 02:31, July 18, 2012 (UTC)


 * Oh, I see. If you take it from other card articles, then you could bookmark one which have each case to make it easier, and so that you don't need to remember them. LegenaryAsariUgetsu (talk • contribs) 02:48, July 18, 2012 (UTC)


 * You use Monobook, right, Cheesedude? There's a box underneath the Save/Preview/Show changes buttons that contains a bunch of links; clicking one of these inserts the appropriate text at the cursor's location in the edit box. Among these are various Unicode characters, including the appropriate vowels with macrons.
 * On the Wikia skin, this box can be accessed by clicking the "more +" button in the toolbar; it otherwise works identically to Monobook. 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 21:48, July 18, 2012 (UTC)


 * *headdesk* I've noticed that box before. I have never taken a close enough look at it to notice that those characters were there. My lack of observational skills knows no bounds. Thanks (and yes, I use Monobook). Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 00:06, July 19, 2012 (UTC)

New Number
Alright - thank you for the confirming, however the episodes he was introducing in seemed little off in the grammar part. Also of that user who created the article also trolled with "Blissfulness" summary in the other article. Comment here to respond me back. -- i  F  r  e  d  C  a  t  19:01, July 18, 2012 (UTC)


 * Eh, the grammar in the previews isn't always wonderful. It's not always consistent who translates them. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 00:06, July 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * Oh right - those "translators" suck balls quite bad. And you should at least respect your desk, I am sure it's slowly bending down each time you headbutt it. -- i  F  r  e  d  C  a  t  00:36, July 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * Its not necessarily their fault. There are several people who sometimes translate previews at NAC, and at least two of them have English as their second language. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 00:39, July 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * So I am now monkey instead of being puss, oh get out of the icebox already. -- i  F  r  e  d  C  a  t  00:40, July 19, 2012 (UTC)

Unknown card in flashback in 5d's episode 002
On the table in the flashback there were two monsters on the table. One was "Junk Warrior" and the other was monster I could not identify. Can you please help me identify that monster. All I know about this monster is that it appears to be an Effect Monster.Cardsknower (talk • contribs) 23:28, July 19, 2012 (UTC)Cardsknower


 * When in the episode was this flashback? Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 23:40, July 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * It was right after the scene showing Yusei and his friends watching a Turbo Duel from Yusei's Duel Runner. It is shown on a table that had two Duel Disks and a bunch of cards. I was able to identify the white card as "Junk Warrior"Cardsknower (talk • contribs) 23:58, July 19, 2012 (UTC)Cardsknower


 * It's very blurry. What little I can make out looks like "Chiron the Mage" to me. But that would be odd, since Yusei never played that. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 00:07, July 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * I rewatched the episode a bit (in both versions). The dub version showed "Montage Dragon" and the original version showed what looks vaguely like the anime version of "Montage Dragon". I could be wrong, but that is as accurate as I can be right now. I think the 5D's Decklists need to be updated since not all of them show all known featured cards in their Decklists.Cardsknower (talk • contribs) 00:59, July 20, 2012 (UTC)Cardsknower


 * Yeah, no one has gotten around to finishing the Featured cards for 5D's. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 01:02, July 20, 2012 (UTC)

About two monsters
Neither "Chainsaw Insect" and "Doom Dozer" appear to have their TCG/OCG effects somewhat in the anime. "Junk Warrior" destroyed "Chainsaw Insect" in battle, but the latter's effect didn't activate. The effect of "Doom Dozer" didn't activate after it attacked Yusei directly(which probably might have changed the whole outcome of the Duel). The effect of "Chainsaw Insect" would not matter with the outcome of the Duel.Cardsknower (talk • contribs) 01:34, July 20, 2012 (UTC)Cardsknower


 * Yeah, I think adding animelores to those articles is fine. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 02:15, July 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * I am against the part of "Chainsaw Insect" - it was not successful both of the times it was "attacking" - Attack has been negating at first time it tried to hit "Shield Warrior", thanks to Yusei's trap card. The second time it got attacked was at the end of the duel, which in the result of Yusei's opponent's loss - which won't happening. "Doom Dozer" can going and adding but I am not agreeing with "Chainsaw Insect" part. -- i  F  r  e  d  C  a  t  02:18, July 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * Fair point, Fred. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 02:30, July 20, 2012 (UTC)

The effect of Nitro Synchron
Nitro Synchron's effect didn't activate in episode 3 or episode 13 even though in both instances it was used for the Synchro Summoning of "Nitro Warrior". The effect of "Nitro Synchron" did activate in episode 17 and episode 28. It would not have changed the outcome of the Duels in episode 3 or episode 13 as Yusei already had the necessaries to win the Duel.Cardsknower (talk • contribs) 23:24, July 20, 2012 (UTC)Cardsknower


 * They often don't show something if it wouldn't have affected the outcome. There's also a possibility that they added that effect to "Nitro Synchron" in episode 17 and it quite simply didn't have that effect prior. There's no real way to tell, so I would leave it as is. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 23:42, July 20, 2012 (UTC)

Template
How is the second series anime's template? :P To add here. By the way, should I link this special DVD in any other page? LegenaryAsariUgetsu (talk • contribs) 01:44, July 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * A mention of it on each of the opening/ending theme pages that are included in it would be good. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 09:09, July 21, 2012 (UTC)

Word
A question about grammar, to use on summaries. So, for example, Shark says to Yuma "You are afraid, aren't you?!". He knows Yuma is afraid, but technically, he asked that, to confirm it or to expose it. In that case, how do I write it in the summary? "Shark asks Yuma if he is afraid"? I guess "Shark tells Yuma that Yuma is afraid" is an odd sentence. xD Is there another specific word for that? 'Cuz this kind of situation happens a lot in the series, and I never knew well how to write it down in the summaries. :P LegenaryAsariUgetsu (talk • contribs) 03:25, July 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * I would just go with "Shark asks Yuma if he is afraid". Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 09:09, July 21, 2012 (UTC)

5D's Decklists
Can you please help me update the 5D's Episode Decklists(not all featured cards are shown in the Decklists and some pages don't have Decklists despite cards appearing in that episode)? I will need as much help as I can updating these pages since I may miss some cards while I skim through each episode to make sure all the known featured cards are there.Cardsknower (talk • contribs) 03:55, July 21, 2012 (UTC)Cardsknower


 * That's something that's on my eventual to-do list. I can help a bit. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 09:09, July 21, 2012 (UTC)

Episodes 1-3 of 5D's
I went through the Decklists and I tried to make sure I didn't miss any cards(I used the cards that were featured in Duels first and then I go to cards that were shown elsewhere in the episode). Can you please check whenever you can episodes 1-3 in Japanese to make sure that the Decklists are not missing any cards? I will be getting to work on episode 4 when I have time.Cardsknower (talk • contribs) 17:08, July 21, 2012 (UTC)Cardsknower


 * Deltaneos made card galleries for most of the episodes in the first two arcs, which are linked from the infobox of each article. You can always check those to see if you missed any cards that he picked up on. I'd rather not re-watch the first three episodes just to check for cards, but I will check some online summaries and see if we've missed anything. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 18:28, July 21, 2012 (UTC)

Forest archetype
The order of the name is very important. That manga chapter has already been released internationally, and I'm not sure if those are their English names. That's why the original names are in the trans parameter. Mad Rest 17:14, July 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * Can I ask how the order of the name is important? "Bon, Swordsman of the Forest" and "Forest Swordsman Bon" literally mean the same thing. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 18:28, July 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * Actually, the chapter wasn't released internationally. Volume 3 only will be released in English in October. Until then, the order of the names is irrelevant. LegenaryAsariUgetsu (talk • contribs) 18:51, July 21, 2012 (UTC)

I like to keep the original name intact as possible. That's why. I saw something on the page saying it was in August, but I guess it was something else. Mad Rest 18:57, July 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * But there's nothing to be kept intact here. The names in this case can be translated in any order and have no impact on the meaning; to reuse Cheesedude's above example, "Bon, Swordsman of the Forest" and "Forest Swordsman Bon" are both 100% correct translations, with the preferred one ultimately boiling down to nothing but personal preference.
 * More generally, you seem to be operating under the assumption that a translation is not correct unless it is translated as literally as possible. Not only is this patently false, it's also an impossible-to-achieve ideal, since very few (I'd wager virtually no) language pairs have perfect, one-to-one correspondence in word definitions, connotations, and usages - and the English/Japanese pairing is particularly unmatched, meaning that the same phrase can be translated 100% literally by two different translators, and the translations can end up (sometimes significantly) different. 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 20:10, July 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * To give an example, "遊戯" (yūgi) means "game", "王" (ō) means "king", but "遊戯王" (yūgiō / Yu-Gi-Oh) is nearly always translated as "King of Games" and rarely as "Game King".
 * In this case, I think "of the Forest" is the favoured translation, as it seems to be following the pattern of some already released cards. More of that on Talk:Forest (series). -- Deltaneos (talk) 20:47, July 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * So you're saying that "Archer Blah of the Forest" was already a member of that "Forest"? Great, just like "Skull Servant"... -- i  F  r  e  d  C  a  t  20:49, July 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * "Arcane Archer of the Forest"? No. His Japanese name, "Magical Bow User of the Dark Green", is completely different. -- Deltaneos (talk) 20:59, July 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * Ah well, that explain anything. Hey, Cheesy, sorry for burdening into your talk page like this - I need to rebuilding the wall and be on the way. -- i  F  r  e  d  C  a  t  21:08, July 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * That thing you said about yugiou doesn't have anything to do with what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the order of the apposition. Game King or King of Games isn't an apposition. Bon is the apposition to Swordsman of the Forest, so it goes after SotF. You seem to think that I'm saying it should be Forest Swordsman instead of Swordsman of the Forest. That's not the case; I'm saying that we maintain the order of the apposition, not the order of every single word in the name. Mad Rest 01:39, July 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * And since they have no English names, I'll rename them later. It's actually the same as with other cards which have longer names. For example, it's Chaos Goddess - Goddess of Chaos -, and there's even a trivia point about how the apposition is placed. You're just not noticing it with these cards since the apposition is made up of 1 word. Mad Rest 01:44, July 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * I have to concur with Deltaneos and Dinoguy1000. Master D, you seem to translate far too literally. For example, you translated [戦士の生還] as "Alive Return of the Warrior", [オオアリクイクイアリ] as "Oarikuikuiari" and then you went and translated [ガードナー] as "Gardnar". Also, you don't seem to able to differentiate the On and Kun reading of Kanji. Moreover, you can't seem to recognize Japanese wordplay. I strongly believe that you are only copying your translations from an online translator. This is a horrible way of doing it because online translators cannot cope with 2 things: syntax and context. Japanese to English translation is not a simple 1 word to 1 word method. While I do admire your good will in going through many card's Japanese names, I often have to fix your translation edits. Finally, all this is said with no intent of offending you or your work. HHT   - (Talk to the Turtle) 03:53, July 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * First of all, check your sources. Gardnar is the Japanese name based on the archetype page, and The Warrior Returning Alive's name was grammatically incorrect; it should be more akin to Safe Return, but whatever. And you're still not addressing my issue. I'm saying we maintain the order of the apposition; I'm not talking about translations. The translations are correct. As I said, would it be fine if I changed the order of the translated Chaos Goddess name into Goddess of Chaos - Chaos Goddess, when it's clearly the opposite? This is the same as with these cards. And please don't tell me you changed all the Gardnar edits. If you don't reply as to why you don't want to maintain the original apposition, I'm going to assume it's because of your own preferences, of wanting the name to be in front. I won't take that as a valid reason. Mad Rest 14:12, July 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * First of all, check your sources. The OCG has never translated [ガードナー] as "Gardnar". I can agree with "Safe Return of the Warrior". I have nothing against or for the apposition issue you've mentioned. Like Cheesedude said before, they basically mean the same thing. Please go ahead and change all of them according to your own preference since you are so adamant about it.


 * Secondly, what you are doing to the translations is a serious issue. Let us take the example, Seven Kids. On that page, you translated [七匹の子ヤギ] as "Seven Animal-Child Goats". This made me facepalm really hard.


 * [七] is obviously "Seven" as in the number.
 * [匹] is used as a counter for small animals. For example,
 * Example sentence: 私は１匹の亀と２匹の猫と３匹の犬を飼っている. (Watashi wa 1 hiki no kame to 2 hiki no neko to 3 hiki no inu o katte iru.)
 * Translation: I keep 1 turtle, 2 cats and 3 dogs as pets.
 * Notice that the word [匹] was not translated as it has no English equivalent. or anything similar to it in English.
 * [子山羊] is compounded together. [子] is "child" or "offspring". [山羊] is "goat" or "goats.


 * Therefore, put together in English it means "Seven Kids" because a kid is the offspring of goats. Also, you don't say "kids of goats". It is only "kid".


 * You still want "Seven Animal-Child Goats"???? This is why I said that you are very obviously using some sort of online translator, most probably Google Translate. As you can see, online translators cannot translate reliably. Now, can you please explain to me why are you so deeply obsessed with Japanese to English translations, if you yourself understand very little 日本語 ? HHT   - (Talk to the Turtle) 02:35, July 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * I made a mistake with that. And I don't still want it. I redid my edit; check the history! I didn't know what a kid was; that's why. And we're not even talking about translations this time. Don't pull in your own subjects! As I said, check the archetype page on Gardna. It clearly says its translated name is Gardnar. Don't make assumptions that when something of mine is corrected, I immediately want it reverted! Do you see me going on about Seven Kids? Stop ignoring the original discussion! We're discussing about the order of the apposition in the translated names, of whether it should be kept, not the actual translations. Mad Rest 12:42, July 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * The "Gardnar" thing was added by some random user without any proof. Please show me an official OCG source where it is specifically written in, then we can rename all of them. Your "Seven Animal-Child Goats" mistake is only 1 in the many mistakes taht you've made. Also, you've failed to address the last important question: "Now, can you please explain to me why are you so deeply obsessed with Japanese to English translations, if you yourself understand very little 日本語 ?" HHT   - (Talk to the Turtle) 13:42, July 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * Because it's fun. Mad Rest 15:29, July 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * 'Facepalm' One more question. If it is fun to you, then why use online translators? HHT   - (Talk to the Turtle) 15:49, July 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * You seem to think that every translator is wrong. I only use them to check if the translated names are correct. And if they aren't, I fix them. I don't know Japanese. It's simple as that. I will accept when I'm wrong if a valid reason is given, but in the case of this discussion, we're talking about keeping the original apposition that is already in the Japanese name. That doesn't require a translator. You can clearly see the order of the apposition just by looking at the Japanese name. Mad Rest 16:06, July 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't think that all translators are incorrect. I think that they are all unreliable. There is the use of wordplay, figure of speech, idiom, context, syntax, different readings and meanings in the same word, all of which can never be comprehended by a translator. Japanese is an extremely complicated language. I urge you to stop using online translators. HHT   - (Talk to the Turtle) 16:15, July 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * If a name is wrong, I can't just leave it. Otherwise, no one will fix it. There are dozens of wrongly translated names here. And the translator I'm using is more reliable than others. It doesn't give a one-word translation. It gives all the possible choices for the kanji, their various pronunciations, and examples in which the word is used. And no, it doesn't translate it literally. It can translate common references. <font color="silver" size="2px">Mad <font color="gold" size="2px">Rest 16:19, July 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * If you're using an online translator - any online translator, regardless of advertised, perceived, or actual quality - you've automatically lost the right to declare any translation "incorrect". Machine translation is still years (if not decades) away from even approaching the level of quality and accuracy needed for this type of translation work, and that's if it can happen before the creation of strong AI (which I doubt for a plethora of reasons). In absolutely any situation where I have to pick between what an online translator gives and what a person that knows Japanese gives, I will go with the person every time.
 * That being said, online translators do serve a purpose; they can be used to sanity-check a given translation, since they generally do well enough for you to tell if a translation is completely off-base or just vandalistic, but even here you have to be careful and check with someone that knows the language. 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 19:23, July 23, 2012 (UTC)

Just to make it clear: Flame Armor Ninja translated names are Armor Ninja - (respective name). Superdimensional Robot Galaxy Destroyer is not Galaxy Destroyer the Superdimensional Robot. There are tons of other examples, and by everyone's reasoning, no one would complain if these were reordered. They all start with kanji, and then follow with kana, and you people seem to think it doesn't make much difference. <font color="silver" size="2px">Mad <font color="gold" size="2px">Rest 15:15, July 22, 2012 (UTC)

The effect of Junk Warrior
There is a bit of confusion, the effect of "Junk Warrior" (both real and anime effect) states total ATK. That would make sense for episode 154. "Junk Warrior" gained 900 ATK in episode 4, but when Yusei briefly doubles the ATK of "Speed Warrior" so that he could destroy "Twin-Shield Defender", this card's ATK remained at 3200 when it should have gone up to 4100. Can you help clear up this confusion as this seems to be an error done by the writersCardsknower (talk • contribs) 21:29, July 21, 2012 (UTC)Cardsknower


 * I think "Junk Warrior" in Anime only look at the Level 2's Original ATK by mistake for that episode. -- i  F  r  e  d  C  a  t  22:03, July 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * Actually the effect of "Junk Warrior" is used in the anime three times(the first episode, Yusei and Jack's first Turbo Duel and the final episode). Also the effect of "Speed Warrior"(both anime effect and real effect) say original ATK when it activates. Perhaps the effect of "Speed Warrior" just says ATK not original ATK and Junk Warrior says original ATK. Junk Warrior, in the anime, may also not gain extra ATK from Level 2 or below monsters if the said monsters got a boost in ATK during the Battle Phase(the final episode depicts Yusei's three monsters getting a boost during his Main Phase 1).Cardsknower (talk • contribs) 22:46, July 21, 2012 (UTC)Cardsknower

Fairy Tale
Why is Fairy Tale a series? One card searches for and activates another one, so isn't it an archetype? If not, my concept of archetype is wrong. o.O LegenaryAsariUgetsu (talk • contribs) 01:10, July 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * Support for a member =/= archsupport. The card has to support the archetype - in other words, the card has to say "Fairy Tale" card, not just "this specific Fairy Tale card". Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 01:57, July 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * It's like "HERO" being Archetype because of "Elemental HERO Stratos" that have effect to obtain any kind of HERO except for "Masked HERO" (if that's true). -- i  F  r  e  d  C  a  t  02:01, July 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * It can search for "Masked HEROes" too. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 02:02, July 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * Oh, I see. Then it was indeed my concept which was wrong xD. LegenaryAsariUgetsu (talk • contribs) 02:59, July 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * Interesting, I thought one series of "HERO" can't be searched by Stratos... was that Vision? Oh well. -- i  F  r  e  d  C  a  t  03:07, July 22, 2012 (UTC)

Chinese VS Japanese
So. I have no scans to add for the image of all latest Rides of the 5D's manga (33 on). But we have the full chapters in Chinese. So, I was wondering... Let's use Ride 35's title page as an example. In the center image, the boxes just show the character's names. If I cropped the page so that it only showed the image, removed the names in Chinese and replaced them with the Japanese ones - would it be enough to add here? Of course, in that case, I'd just replace the texts with the Japanese texts I know for sure, as the example I used, or the chapter's name (I could crop the page as much as needed to show the less possible text, and if it only showed, for example, the chapter's name and a card's name, I could replace it with the proper Japanese text). What do you think? LegenaryAsariUgetsu (talk • contribs) 01:17, July 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * Honestly, I don't know. But it sounds...dodgy to me. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 01:24, July 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * Well, because it is :D. I use to have such ideas. xD Do you think I should ask someone else, like Dino or Deltaneos? LegenaryAsariUgetsu (talk • contribs) 03:01, July 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * Yeah, it wouldn't hurt. See what Delt thinks (Dino will likely respond no matter whose talk page page you post on). Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 03:02, July 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * You know me too well, Cheesedude. =D
 * I would say that if we absolutely can't find a Japanese scan of a chapter at this time, but do have a Chinese scanslation, we can use that with extreme care (basically, the treatment you suggested above, Asari) and only as a last resort, and we should keep track of the images done this way so that they can be replaced if/when we do get an actual Japanese scan. Basically, I think it turns into a balancing act between wanting to have some image, but not wanting to present material which is outright breaking the law. 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 06:11, July 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * Indeed, you both been buddy since first grade, way before I joined the school. No Pun intend. -- i  F  r  e  d  C  a  t  17:15, July 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * Lol xD.
 * So, if we really have no damn scans to add in the chapter, I can take Chinese scans and replace with proper Japanese text, right? Yoshi, gonna do that then. LegenaryAsariUgetsu (talk • contribs) 18:36, July 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * Well, Dino, it's not as if I'm not a talk page stalker heavily invested in the how this wiki runs myself.
 * Actually, I recall knowing you before Dinoguy, FredCat. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 23:36, July 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * But you both were highly action before I got here. -- i  F  r  e  d  C  a  t  00:06, July 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * 'Kay, so, what about if I do like this? I just cropped everything so that only the image was left, then removed all Chinese text and added the characters' Japanese names instead. The white rectangle in the upper right also had text, but as I don't know the official Japanese text, I left it white. Is it OK if I do like this? LegenaryAsariUgetsu (talk • contribs) 01:38, July 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * Looks fine to me. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 01:43, July 23, 2012 (UTC)

False Skeletal God Dragon - Heart Earth
I know this is protected, but Skeletal is horribly wrong. It is either body or corpse, from what I can guess. I guess we can wait for the picture to come up, but unless it is made up of bones, move it to either one of those. <font color="silver" size="2px">Mad <font color="gold" size="2px">Rest 15:11, July 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * Ok, I'll wait for a picture. No use trying to guess the context. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 00:11, July 23, 2012 (UTC)

Speed Spell the same as Spell Card?
Is a Speed Spell a subcategory of a Spell Card because there have been at least two occasions where the effect of "Nitro Warrior" activated in a Turbo Duel(that would be its first effect).Cardsknower (talk • contribs) 16:36, July 22, 2012 (UTC)Cardsknower
 * Yes, Cardsknower - Speed Spell groups are also considering a Spell Card, since they had same border color; but they have restrict where original Spell Cards do not: Required "Speed World" field card and required certain Speed Counter to activate them. And again, Cheesy, sorry about other impact hole on the wall... I really need stop butting in. -- i  F  r  e  d  C  a  t  17:14, July 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes, a Speed Spell is a Spell. We just categorized it separate on-wiki. It used be categorized as an archetype, which was just wrong, so we changed it a while back. There's a forum discussion about it somewhere. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 00:11, July 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * A forum for my butting in other Talk Page or are you referring on Forum for that kind of discussing of why Speed Spell being not Archetype? If latter, then I am glad that was a good reason. -- i  F  r  e  d  C  a  t  00:15, July 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * A forum discussion about Speed Spells. For the record, I don't really care if you answer questions on my talk page. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 00:16, July 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * Just cuz we are buddy, right? (mimicked Dino's personality) -- i  F  r  e  d  C  a  t  00:18, July 23, 2012 (UTC)

Attack Name
Could you please help em fixing Armored Bee's effect names here? :P Poison Stinger is the English one and Poison Needle the Japanese translated. By the way, could you please teach me how to put double lines on it? I tried many times, sometimes I copy it exactly as it is from other monster, but I can never put it right. xD LegenaryAsariUgetsu (talk • contribs) 01:13, July 25, 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't actually know myself. If I ever edit that page I just copy another monster and replace the names. I can try to figure it out though. Hang on. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 01:29, July 25, 2012 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I'm stumped. I can fix it, but it causes the next card down to be borked instead. Someone else will have to get it. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 01:46, July 25, 2012 (UTC)


 * I fixed it for you (I think, at least; could you make sure the names are in the correct columns?).
 * Bear with me, I have to start a bit broad for this explanation:
 * The basic idea to the different columns is that the English column has official English attack names, and the Japanese/Romaji/Translated columns have the appropriate information for official Japanese attack names. The main thing to remember here is that there's not necessarily any correlation between a monster's official English attack name(s) and its official Japanese attack name(s) - especially in the older manga and anime, English attack names seem to be made up on the spot more often than being translated from Japanese. This is reflected in how we use the table: if a monster has one English attack name and one Japanese attack name, it's very straightforward, just one row for the monster containing both names and we're done.
 * Once we add more names, though, it gets a bit more complicated, but fortunately we can consider the case of multiple English names separately from that of multiple Japanese names. If a monster has multiple English attack names, we format them as a list with the names all in a single cell - simple enough. Monsters with multiple Japanese names is where it really gets tricky, though: because of the extra information we want for Japanese attack names (romaji and translations), we need to have each Japanese name in a separate row. But, we also want all of these rows to be "associated" with the cell containing the name of the monster in question, so we have to span that cell across rows. we do this with the code, where   is the number of Japanese names (since there's one row per Japanese name, the number of rows we have to span will always equal the number of Japanese names). So, for example, if we have a monster named "Deadly Markup" (bad joke haha) with 3 Japanese names, the code for the cell for the monster's name would be  , and that would be followed by the rest of the markup for the row for the first name, and then by two more rows containing the other two names (these latter two rows don't have the very first cell for the monster name, since that cell is spanning into these rows from the first row). But don't forget about our column for the English name. As I said above, all the English attack names go in a list in one cell, so if we include cells for English names in the latter two rows, they'll just be empty. So we do the same here as we did for the card name cell: we span the cell for the English attack names across all three rows (again using the markup   in the first row), and don't include any markup for the English cell in the latter two rows.
 * While this may sound a bit complicated, you'll find that it's actually quite simple once you've gotten comfortable with how spanning a cell across rows works. At that point, the main difficulty comes from trying to keep the rows straight, particularly if a monster has a bunch of Japanese attack names; I should probably write a row template for the Attack name page that abstracts all this away and keeps all the Japanese attack names firmly associated with the appropriate monster.
 * Other than that, if you need me to clarify or better explain something (I'd actually be more surprised if neither of you have any further questions, because of how rambling and unclear my above writing is =/ ), feel free to ask. =) 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 02:18, July 25, 2012 (UTC)


 * Actually, my head hurts, but I think I got it xD. It looks simple indeed, it was just that I didn't know how to.
 * Edit: After seeing your edit I got it, so never mind the question I made. LegenaryAsariUgetsu (talk • contribs) 02:34, July 25, 2012 (UTC)


 * That's how my head feels pretty much every time I delve into template coding... I must be a masochist, though, because I can't get enough of it. XD
 * The real secret to getting through stuff like this is to break it down into parts, and work on each part separately until you understand it. Then, once you've gotten through a few of the parts, you can start looking at how they fit together, which usually gives you insights that feed back into your understanding of the parts, etc. ;) 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 02:44, July 25, 2012 (UTC)


 * Yeah, that's what I attempted to do, but I seem to find that wikitable in particular more inscrutable than most. I mean, I feel fairly comfortable editing CardTable2 at this point, but the attack name table just escapes me. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 02:53, July 25, 2012 (UTC)


 * Probably because that table uses raw wikimarkup (not even HTML, where you could at least follow along with opening and closing tags), whereas I switched CardTable2 over to HTML a long time ago to make coding in it easier, and then abstracted the whole thing with a couple of row templates to make coding even easier yet. ;) 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 03:37, July 25, 2012 (UTC)

RE: The Organization
I'll look around, but I don't think I can help much if it's about translations. (Currently waiting on the "The administrator wishes to preview all new registered accounts before posting permissions are granted. The administrator has been notified of your registration.") I don't think I've ever mentioned a complete list of what languages I know anywhere... might as well, and I'll make it a complete list so I can copy/paste it if I ever need it again. I've learnt Chinese for a year or two in primary school, French for half a year and Japanese for a year and a half as one of the subjects in high school, and picked up more lines of Japanese through watching anime, but it shouldn't be enough to actively translate. I can converse well in English (duh), Chinese and Cantonese. Writing/Reading, not so much for the latter two. I can also read stuff like the ones at User talk:魔法師 (which is essentially word sounds from Cantonese), although it doesn't have a use in Yu-Gi-Oh afaik. and for the sake of completeness, Java and TEX/LATEX for the main programming languages, not that it means anything in this particular message. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 03:46, July 25, 2012 (UTC)

Number 30 Source
I was just to be caution about it effect lore in the Anime... That usually required source before change it. But since you confirmed that as true, I would not bother that part anymore. But still, they needed to confirming about the reason why they changed it - that's all. -- i  F  r  e  d  C  a  t  01:58, July 26, 2012 (UTC)

5D's episode 5 featured cards
There is a big inconsistency with the cards Yusei's hand whenever it is shown(I placed it in already and noticed this). Yusei's first hand showed "Defense Draw" and "Graceful Revival", but the next time Yusei's hand is shown, it shows "Counterattack Beacon" and "Meteor Stream" and that remains that way for the next episode. Yusei also appeared to be drawing "Spacegate" on the fifth turn, but by process of elmination that should have been "Defense Draw". I think this was an error on the writers' part because they probably got too caught up with this epic battle. Please reply when possibleCardsknower (talk • contribs) 19:58, July 27, 2012 (UTC)Cardsknower


 * Yeah, mentioning an inconsistency like that in the Mistakes section is fine. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 22:02, July 27, 2012 (UTC)

A few unknown cards that were shown but not known
In episode 44 of GX, there was a Trap Amanael used to stop the attack of "Cyber Blader". Although I could assume that would be "Elemental Absorber", there is no proof on that. Should we make note of this one of the episode 44 page or the Amnael page. Amnael also used an unknown Spell to destroy Alexis' "Cyber Blader" and Chazz's "Armed Dragon LV7". Also in episode 8 of 5D's, there is an unknown Spell Card in Hunter's hand that neither me or Zingerzheng could make out. I don't if it was any of the Speed Spells that Hunter used against Yusei but I don't think that's likely. Can you try to make out what card it is in your spare time?Cardsknower (talk • contribs) 23:12, July 28, 2012 (UTC)Cardsknower


 * It's such to not been showing - so let's just leave it as unknown Trap Card, my friend. -- i  F  r  e  d  C  a  t  23:15, July 28, 2012 (UTC)


 * Yeah, just put Unknown Trap Card. I'll check the Speed Spell in a few hours. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 23:32, July 28, 2012 (UTC)


 * No idea what it is. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 01:26, July 29, 2012 (UTC)

Yuma Tsukumo page images
Hey cheesedude. You see i really noticed there are a LOT of images in Yuma's page which are really unnecessary. Like dueling minor characters, he gets an errand from Haru, picking a vegetable, activating Stinging Swordsman's effect, checking his new cards and the list goes on! I tried removing those in the page as they serve no purpose. Then a wikia contributor put them back. Can you maybe do some clean up in images in pages that sere no purpose? SharkTenjo 00:19, July 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * Well, it's quite a long page. In this case, I'd aruge that having unimportant images there is still better than not having images. The images are really needed to help break up those paragraphs. The best course of action is to just upload some that are relevant and replace them. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 00:29, July 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * Well the paragraphs are breaked down even without the images right? SharkTenjo 00:44, July 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * Agreed - and they didn't do the back and forth on image by image very well; like you have to put the next image to the right if previous one is left. -- i  F  r  e  d  C  a  t  00:54, July 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * Not what I meant by broken up. Try reading a long article that has no images. It sucks. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 00:56, July 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * Exactly, by whom do you agree? SharkTenjo 00:57, July 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * Have you seen the GX articles? There are just a few important images there. Also there are a lot of images in Yumas page so removing those unnecessary images wont do anything but makes the page having more sense. SharkTenjo 00:59, July 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * I agreed - it just give the reader(s) who have not seen the show some background understand of what the hell was going on with that event. They do serving the purposes after all, Shark. -- i  F  r  e  d  C  a  t  01:02, July 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * Actually the readers look at the Episode listing not the character pages. SharkTenjo 01:06, July 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * I knew, but what if readers don't know what that place look like in the image - that's the purpose. -- i  F  r  e  d  C  a  t  01:08, July 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * That's because the GX articles are very incomplete. Every single character biography needs to be expanded. With more text, comes more images. And how exactly would you know what the people who read the wiki are reading? Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 01:10, July 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * If reading the text still not clear enough (as describe of how their look changes or the field changed at suddenly minute) then look at the image would help realizing what it happened. Like couple times, Falzar or you pointed out the Dark Xyz Monster ever through it's not played on the field, it was behind one of Yuma's long rival (not Shark or blond-head dude, the fatty dude who used Utopia once)... -- i  F  r  e  d  C  a  t  01:13, July 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * That actually proves my point. If they dont do much reading, then the image serve no purpose. it can just be moved to their respective episode to which it appeared in SharkTenjo 01:16, July 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * Again, I ask for evidence to back up your statement of "people don't read the character bios." Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 01:24, July 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * I did not say that people do not read character bios SharkTenjo 02:02, July 29, 2012 (UTC)