Forum:Sorcerer of Dark Magic Needs Official Ruling.

There are two different versions of Sorcerer of Dark Magic. And by the wording of the two the newer version can negate all traps including counter traps. I know the older one just has a spell speed 2, but the newer version has "ANY Trap Cards" in it's card text. That means Normal, Continuous and Counter Trap Cards. But since counter traps have spell speed 3, it normally couldn't chain to it.

This means there is a discrepancy between the rules and a card effect and the rulebook states that:

If there is a discrepancy between the basic rules and a card's effect, the card effect takes precedence.

This is the card text of the old version from the movie pack: 2004 This card cannot be normal summoned or set. This card cannot be special summoned  except by offering 2 level 6 or higher Spellcaster-Type monsters on your side of the field as Tributes. As long as this card remains face-up on the field, you can negate the activation of Trap Cards and destroy them. This is the card text from duelist pack Yugi: 2009 This card cannot be Normal Summoned or Set. This card cannot be Special Summoned except by Tributing 2 Level 6 or higher Spellcaster-Type monsters. You can negate the activation of ANY Trap Cards and destroy them. My friends here in Casper Wyoming and people on the internet still say that he can't because of the spell speed rules. But the rulebook clearly says he can.

Many cards have been reprinted with text changes to clarify the effect. I believe this is what has happened here. If it was not intended for the card to negate ANY (all) traps to include counter traps why would the text have been changed. I would like to know see an official ruling made on this as we have some major infighting in our local Yugioh tournaments over this card and its effect.

Thanks for your input, Rucadulu (talk • contribs) 13:50, April 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Official Ruling? Nah, all you need is a common sense. And you're right, Rucadulu; "Sorcerer of Dark Magic" is Speed Spell 2, only can negate either Normal or Continuous (flipping face-up) Trap Cards while can't touch Counter Trap Cards so he can let other "Counter Trap Cards" deal with each other while he take the business with the two mentioned Trap Type. The errata was reason to help people to understand why he can negate ANY trap cards, except Counter version. Thank you for question. -- F  r  e  d  C  a  t  13:53, April 14, 2012 (UTC)

FredCat, I think you missed my Standing on this. I believe that by the basic rules of the game as stated in my first post that Sorcerer of Dark Magic can stop all traps to include counter traps. If as you say you use common sense and play by the rules as stated in the rule book then the wording of the effect supersedes the spell speed rules. With that in mind the effect can stop ANY trap to include counter traps. The rules are the rules and they cannot be applied to one card but not another card. Which is the agrument we have going on here locally? Either the card effect is meant to stop ANY (all) trap’s with the obvious except of already activated continuous trap cards or the rules in the rule book regarding Rules verses Card Effects on page 44 of the official rule book are wrong. Rucadulu (talk • contribs) 14:11, April 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * That card is a quite old card. Words of the old cards are unexpected.--Lê (talk • contribs) 14:23, April 14, 2012 (UTC)

The old card theory does not hold up. As stated earlier the 2004 version did not included the word ANY. But, the newer 2009 version does included the word ANY. The wording was changed to make the effect more clear. Why else would they have added the word ANY. This is exactly why I say there needs to be an official ruling from Konami OCG/TCG on the card effect. If the word ANY is truly meant to mean ANY (ALL) traps then Sorcerer of Dark Magic is the only Spell Speed 3 Effect Monster in the game. Which this is really cool to say the least. Rucadulu (talk • contribs) 14:35, April 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) Newer ruling ≠ Newer errata. Konami is a bureaucratic system. Ruling group, trading group, etc are seperate.
 * 2) You can try on video games like WC2011. Sorcerer of Dark Magic cannot negate Counter Traps.--Lê (talk • contribs) 14:55, April 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * 1) There are no exceptions to how Spell Speeds work. There will not be a Spell Speed 3 monster.
 * 2) The old lore was by UDE, so TCG Konami has only printed this card once. It isn't the first time TCG Konami decided to do something stupid when translating a card.
 * 3) The OCG lore is very clear. It does not say "any", and is worded as Spell Speed 2 effect.
 * 4) Tournaments have always accepted this.
 * 5) All video games have it as Spell Speed 2.
 * -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 14:57, April 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * Le is still correct - and my word is still standing; Using Common Sense to think twice before give out an objection. All Effect Monster, all Spell Cards, and all Trap Cards that are Continuous and Normal, are technology Spell Speed 2. Counter Trap Cards are only one that is Spell Speed 3. -- F  r  e  d  C  a  t  14:59, April 14, 2012 (UTC)

I would invite you to read two things.

This is the card text from duelist pack Yugi: 2009 “This card cannot be Normal Summoned or Set. This card cannot be Special Summoned except by Tributing 2 Level 6 or higher Spellcaster-Type monsters. You can negate the activation of ANY Trap Cards and destroy them.”

Rules vs. Card Effects, Page 44, Official Konami Rule Book: If there is a discrepancy between the basic rules and a card’s effect, the card effect takes precedence. For example, a monster can only attack once per turn, but with a card effect, it is possible to attack twice.

This cannot be clearer. No matter what the spell speed rules are, no matter if it was a miss translation. Until a new version is printed that has different wording Sorcerer of Dark Magic can negate ANY trap.

In a court of law what is written is a legal binding. This is also true for game rules. It is an agreement between players to play a game in a specific way. One cannot apply the rules as they see fit they have to be applied equally to all.

Komani has made it very clear that when in doubt the written effect on the card always wins. It does not matter if you or anyone else would like to believe that Konami did not mean for the card to say ANY traps. The fact is that it does say ANY traps and the effect always wins. It is simple and in black in white in the Konami rule book. So if you would like to stay on the common sense issue. As I said before the rules are the rules and they apply evenly and equally to all players and cards.

Rucadulu (talk • contribs) 16:20, April 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Common Sense, my friend. I already give you the answer - "Sorcerer of Dark Magic" can't negate Counter Trap Cards. And that's done. Stop pressuring this forum! -- F  r  e  d  C  a  t  16:31, April 14, 2012 (UTC)

The only exception on speed ruling happens only in Tcg with two mandatory trigger effect one of them is speed 2 the other is speed 1 and according to the tcg mandatory trigger ruling the one that is trigger first is chain link 1, so check this example:

I have a face-down wild turnado ready to use, and I also have mystical space thyphon face-down ready to use and I also have sangan face-down on my monster card zone. It is my opponent's turn he activated "dark hole" I chain mystical space thyphon and target my own face-down wild tournad

chain link 2 resolve Mystical space thyphon destroy face-down wild tournado

chain link 1 resolve dark hole destroy all monster card on the field

Starting a new chain

chain link 1 : speed 2 mandatory effect wild tournado no avaiable target since there is no face-up card

chain link 2: speed 1 mandatory effect of sangan

resolution

chain link 2 the effect of sangan resolve I search my deck for a monster card with 1500 atk or less show it to my opponent and then place it in my hand and rechuffle my deck

chain link 1 the trigger effect of wild tournado resolve without an effect because there was no valid target.

Remember this is only for tcg which now all Tcg ruling are consider unofficial but still correct for tcg unless konami says otherwise for tcg.96.44.92.186 (talk) 18:01, April 14, 2012 (UTC)

Fredcat, you need to get off your high horse. Just because you say something does not make it true. I started this forum post I will keep replying to it for as long as I want. Rucadulu (talk • contribs) 21:21, April 14, 2012 (UTC)

As to the other poster ”99.42.92.186”, I completely agree with you on your spell speed examples. However this still does not get around the fact that the second release of Sorcerer of Dark Magic says ANY trap. This wording can only mean that the Rules vs Card Effect rule in the official rule book must take effect for this card. The wording is not like any other effect monster. No other monster says it can negate ANY trap. Rucadulu (talk • contribs) 21:21, April 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * I am not on the high horse. Any Trap mean Continuous and Normal Trap Cards, Counter Trap Cards are not involved because it is Speed Spell 3, which is too fast for this magician to halt it. Again, I told you many times before; COMMON SENSE - think again, why is Counter Trap Cards not negated? Speed Spell 3! Why that way, because it is! It's a game mechanic! Now halt repost this useless Forum since it's already answered, for like fourth time! Case. Closed! -- F  r  e  d  C  a  t  21:29, April 14, 2012 (UTC)