Forum:Institute for Proper Deck Building Skills

General Information/Mission Statement
I, Dark Ace SP, have retired from being a deckbuilder for Decks for Free! and this new forum page is something I've come to the conclusion that we need. The purpose of this forum page is 2 pronged, while I like making decks for people, I noticed that people just can't seem to build a proper deck, and that's why they would ask us to do it. While I love the service Lappyzard is now continuing, I think it's also important to help people actually get better at deckbuilding, rather than just being given a deck. Proper deckbuilding is a skill that every duelist should have.

The second reason for this page is that some people won't want to work at getting better and will just continue to use Decks for Free!, the only problem is all the deckbuilders will eventually have to leave for one reason or another, so Decks for Free! will always need more staff. So, if this forum page can help you get better at making real decks that work, then you would feel more comfortable making decks for others, and you might apply to become a Decks for Free! staff member.

This page is mostly like the deck help forum, the only difference is that I will reply and give you my thoughts, and won't let your request go unanswered. I've had the experience to make decks for almost 2 years for deck ideas that were odd or really just out of the mainstream, so what I tell you is based on that. Take in mind, that doesn't mean all duelists are bad or horrible deckbuilders, but some people do feel like they need help to get better, and that's what this page is for, to help you on a personal level, with someone who has gained experience from working with talented people, and would like to pass that on.

I will not make decks on request, only help you make your idea come to life.

General Procedure
Much like how Decks for Free! works, I'd like the people who want help to make a new section, then I can start to help you get better at deckbuilding. Please make a new request by using this link. Just remember to have a user account and know how to sign your posts. You should also know how to use the Template:Decklist. You should know that you will make the deck, and I will give you feedback, but I hope you can get better, that's the end goal.

How would I help you get better?
I would help you make a deck of your own choosing, but I'd only give you my own thoughts and what I think can be changed to give the deck as much focus as possible. I won't make your deck for you, but I will try to guide you to a deck that you think works for you. I'll only take a few people at a time, and I do want to help people who want a hands on experience at getting better.

-- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )

General Deckbuilding Guidelines

 * Deck Building 101

= Requests =

Finished - Mist Valley Help
First of all, great initiative. I'm a not so great deckbuilder, but i think deckbuilding is what yugioh makes a great game. so thanks for this :)

then, the deck

I'm making a mist valley synchro deck. focussing on divine wind of wind vally to quickly sychro summon, and cards like mist valley thunder lord to reuse cards like swords of revealing light (permanent att block) and call of the haunted (freem monster reuse)

so, this is what i got this far. I've tested it. it's a occasional deck till now excpesialy in the long game, becouse it's important to have 2 monsters on the field (targets for falcon, shaman and thunderlord). I have a few cards in mind wich i have'nt added to the deck yet, but from wich i think it maybe could be a addition. but i'm not sure: Silpheed, twin-headed behemoth, unibird, reed butterfly and garuda the wind spirit. here's the current deck:

The Extra deck isn't ready yet, becouse at first i used Dragunity Phalanx in this deck, for the synhro summon to lvl 6 and 8, but i later took him off. The extra space in the Extra deck are the Dragunity monsters, but i don't use them anymore. I make this deck for the new banlist (sept 2012) but i'm not sure if i want to ad a extra SoRL. Thanks in advance for your help! --InvictaNL (talk • contribs) 20:47, August 25, 2012 (UTC)

Feedback:
 * The Monster line-up needs some polishing, and your using some Mist Valley cards that aren't really that great. The 3 Falcon are totally needed, but Thunderbird, Condor, Shield Wing and Kamakiri aren't needed, and they don't add anything to the deck. A better card over those would be 3 Mist Valley Soldier, and remember since Divine Wind of Mist Valley only needs you to bounce WIND monsters, you don't need to have a bunch of Mist Valley monsters. You can keep maybe 1 Condor if you want, but it's not that amazing. You can also drop Shaman.
 * The Extra Deck isn't perfect and I get why you max out on Thunder Lord, but you'll only really need 1, I'd make the extra deck more diverse, add in other Level 7 Synchros, like Black Rose Dragon and maybe a 2nd Ancient Fairy Dragon. Also, Flamvell Uruquizas has an effect, so you may want it over Gaia. Also, I'd MAX out the extra deck later on, but I know you dropped a few cards.
 * The Spell line-up needs more Staples, like Dark Hole and Heavy Storm, Book of Moon, and either Forbidden Lance or MST. You can also probably drop the Avarice, as it's fairly a situational card in Mist Valley, it might help, but I don't think it's needed, and you'll probably win before you really need it. Some more Staples in the Spells is what you'll really need.
 * The Traps aren't bad, but you're lacking Solemn Warning or at the very least Bottomless Trap Hole. Those cards are just good at what they do, they take out big monsters before they become a problem for you, and it's pretty painful when a well used Bottomless Trap Hole or Solemn Warning lets your 2000 ATK Falcon inflict massive damage with Divine Wind on the field. Compulsory can work too, but you might want to use that on yourself at times, so having at least 2 Bottomless is good, Warning is better, but Bottomless can work as a sub. Also, Lappyzard has lately been dropping Torrential Tribute from his decks, as he hates using it when he loses a great monster field, so maybe drop the 1 Torrential for a Mirror Force, or even a Dimensional Prison or 2. I'd also add in 2 Safe Zone/Fiendish Chain, those cards are just pure Falcon abuse that really hurt a lot of decks right now.

Think about it, and post up your next and updated version. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  14:45, August 26, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback. i will work on it and post the next version soon --InvictaNL (talk • contribs) 16:05, August 26, 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure about the Dragunity Knight - Trident. Will it be a good choice? or are the minusses not worth it? Blood Mefist is to add a choise for effect damage against a staller, or a finisher. I've kept 2 Thunder Lords, becouse i feel I otherwise won't have enough returners.


 * This looks a little better, but I'd drop the Watcher, Normal Monsters are just bad, and only a few decks can really use them. Mist Valley isn't one of them. I'd drop Delta Flyer for 3 Mist Valley Soldier (High ATK and can bounce certain monsters), the only reason I say this, is because Birdman can act as your Level 3 Tuner, and he gives you so much more than Delta Flyer in terms of utility and synergy. You need to ADD in Dark Hole, it's a Torrential Tribute you can use on your turn, on your terms, and it is a staple that must be used in a deck. I'd also drop the 1 Torrential Tribute for either another Compulsory Evacuation Device, it offers more in this deck, since you already have 2 Mirror Force and hopefully 1 Dark Hole (Seriously add Dark Hole), you could also add in that 2nd Swords of Revealing Light, it works. You can make room by dropping Garuda the Wind Spirit. I would drop the Dragunity Knight - Trident and Flyer, seriously Trident is just minus all around, think about it, your burning your cards for opponent's cards that aren't even in play yet, if your that afraid of a Wind-Up Zenmaines or Stardust Dragon, just run Dimensional Prison in the main deck, it gets around both of them. Also, you'll probably never summon 2 Arcanite (You can do that, but you'll probably not need too), so your probably using up an extra deck space for nothing, if you want a Level 7 for pure attack power, think Scrap Archfiend. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  00:55, August 27, 2012 (UTC)


 * If you need to see one of my older deck versions of this kinda of deck, then use the Forum search function, and type in my user name. It's probably titled Harpie Valley or something, but it has no Harpie Lady 1. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  00:58, August 27, 2012 (UTC)

quick question before i post my updated version: I want to add in Escape from the Dark Dimension so i can recycle Birdman (he's banished very often of course:P) but i don't know wich card i will let out. this is my trap line-up right now:
 * call of the haunted 1x
 * compulsory evacuation device 3x
 * mirror forcce 2x
 * safe zone 2x
 * solemn trio

I personally think you don't need Escape, if it's only for Birdman, it's kinda pointless, if you included Soldier, you can Synchro Summon Level 8 Synchros, and personally, you'll use maybe 1 or 2 Birdman every duel. If you want to include 1 card for a 1 card combo, it's probably pointless, because Escape will probably be dead more than not. I would just give up the idea and include Mist Valley Soldier if you can. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  00:35, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

I left Judgment out, i Don't like the high cost. The safe Zone is working pretty well. mostly becouse i can get a Thunderlord when i want it. I do use the 3 birman every duel. mostly becouse when i use birdman's eff, i can special summon genex blastfan, get a birdman to my hand, and tune in a level 7 synchro, next turn, repeat prces. I Return the second sword, as advised. It's a nice card, excpessialy when i need some time to get the right cards. I brought in a zenmaines. I can eassily summon it by using thunderbird and birdman. I left it out at first, but i've encountered some situations when i wished i put him in. so i did --InvictaNL (talk • contribs) 13:41, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * Your short 1 card, also, the cost for Solemn Judgment isn't really important, plus it only has a high cost if your winning, or you foolishly use Judgment too early (It's a card which should be used to cover for big pushes). I would add back in Solemn and Dark Hole. 41 cards isn't a bad thing. So after you add those 2 in, it should be fairly good and if you like it that should be fine for you. Also, Shaman isn't bad either, you could drop Thunderbird for it. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  22:59, August 30, 2012 (UTC)


 * If you need more help, then do post here. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  14:20, September 1, 2012 (UTC)

Need help with a Bounzer deck.
I've been a big fan of making decks for a long while, especially using odd and unused archetypes or playtypes. My issue is trying to break out of sticking to the continuity of the theme; in this case, I'm trying to stick to a strict Bounzer deck, but the T.G. monsters are the only ones I can think of to make the deck more consistent, but with only Striker as the card I can use to get Warwolf out consistently, that's not saying much. I got in the mind of using Manticore of Darkness as a reusable Rank 6 fodder monster, but again, the consistency thing. I've got some ideas, but I'm too timid to work them out, because of the consistency thing. Got any advice? Vorpal Storm Pony (talk • contribs) 00:51, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * Hmm, things to fix first; DROP Manticore, One Day of Peace, Generation Shift. Also, all the Bounzer monsters are Warriors so you can use Reinforcement of the Army. But personally, I hate the fact that the Bounzers are all Warrior types, they should be Beast Warrior! That way we can use Horn of the Phantom Beast. Also, try to look for any easy to summon Level 6 Monsters, or cards that make it easy to get to Level 6 Materials on the board quickly. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  23:18, August 30, 2012 (UTC)


 * The choice for Manticore and Generation Shift I've already explained; Manticore can be reused with its effect if used as Xyz Material, and Generation Shift + Phantom Bounzer = instant access to virtually any Bounzer monsters in my deck, thinning it out by 3. I'm not likely going to drop the latter, unless I know for sure it won't speed up the deck as much as I think it would, but I'd love to ask you what you think would be a good replacement to Manticore; right now, the only ones I can think of that are available in the TCG that are Warriors are Laval Lancelord and The Fiend Megacyber. Also, RotA only gets level 4 and lower Warriors, so I can't use it to snag the important monsters in this deck, mainly the Level 6's.


 * I've been playing around with two ideas: using Chaos-End Master to bring out low-ATK Level 6 monsters (like Total Defense Shogun), or using a bunch of Normal/Gemini Warriors to flood the graveyard so I can summon Knight of the Red Lotus for Xyz fodder and to bring out monsters for tribute fodder. Thing is, I dunno how to implement either idea properly without slowing the deck down.


 * Finally, I've read a card review of Hammer Bounzer on Pojo, and one of the reviewers suggested that a dedicated Bounzer deck focus on using Hammer as the main beater until you can get out the Xyzs, and in that case, put in as few Traps as possible, and make sure they and your spells are the field-controlling kind (so stuff like Forbidden Lance or Book of Moon or whatnot), which makes sense to me, but I'm having trouble envisioning how to implement that.


 * And yes, they should've made the Bounzers Beast-Warriors; not only would Horn be useful with them, but the Manticore idea wouldn't be as far-fetched.


 * Incidentally, out of the very few Bounzer decks I've found online, most of them seem to have the same idea: use cards like Armageddon Knight and Dark Grepher to dump Phantom Bounzer into the graveyard for revival. How would you gauge that strategy? Vorpal Storm Pony (talk • contribs) 00:10, August 31, 2012 (UTC)


 * Hmm, the issue for me is that the Level 6 set-up is harder to do, but some ideas are to maybe make it a pureish Warrior Deck? I mean you could include Dododo Warrior and The Immortal Bushi. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  14:13, September 1, 2012 (UTC)


 * As for the stuff like Forbidden Lance and such, I've made decks with low Trap counts and high Quick-Play counts. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  14:17, September 1, 2012 (UTC)


 * Idea! How about using Knight to dump Immortal Bushi? Easy tribute, and a bunch of good Warrior Types are in the game. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  14:19, September 1, 2012 (UTC)


 * I have exactly 1 immortal Bushi, and Dododo Warrior isn't available in the TCG; the closest I can come to it is Laval Lancelord, which isn't that great. I'm just not convinced that the Dark-themed Bounzer deck would be a good idea. At least we agree that a limited Trap pool is needed to make the best out of Hammer Bounzer. I'm still convinced of the validity of Generation Shift/Photon Bounzer, and I've made some good use of Bounzer Guard, but other than two of them, I think a pair of Call of the Haunted and Trap Stun would be the best choices. Vorpal Storm Pony (talk • contribs) 15:23, September 1, 2012 (UTC)


 * True, but if we're running a low trap count, then how about Treeborn Frog? I mean I've been able to do some cool stuff with Monarchs (Who are all Level 6), and if that won't work, we always have Gagaga Magician. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  15:47, September 1, 2012 (UTC)


 * Don't have one, and I'm not in a position to buy or trade for one, right now. Besides, I got into a bit of a flame war over a troll who kept on insisting Frog Bounzers was the only way to make them good, so I'm kinda wanting to steer clear of that, for now. Not saying I'm discounting it as a good idea, just that I'm not convinced it's the best or only way to make Bounzers work, and I don't want to get into yet another argument over it.


 * I thought about stuff like Gagaga Magician and Tragoedia and even Illusory Snatcher, but I'm just not sure; the latter two seem to have the same consistency issues as any other level 6 monster, and there's no guarantee I'll be able to keep Gagaga Magician out on the field long enough to Xyz Summon with it (and before you say it, Gagaga Girl is way beyond my price range, so that won't work as an idea).


 * What do you think of my idea with Knight of the Red Lotus and/or Chaos-End Master? Those seem to be some of my better bets, right now. Vorpal Storm Pony (talk • contribs) 16:16, September 1, 2012 (UTC)


 * Go with Chaos-End Master, unless you feel like using Elemental HERO Neos Alius and Noble Knight Gawayn. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  14:37, September 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * But anyway, no matter what you do, I suggest you use Pot of Duality, it gives you a chance to get Hammer, and it won't stop Hammer from summoning itself. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  14:38, September 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * True, but it would interfere with my attempts to Special Summon other monsters for Tribute/Xyz Summoning. Besides, the only Pot of Dualities I have are being used in another deck, so it'll be either the two One Day of Peaces or the three Upstart Goblins I have.


 * I managed to snag a few more Immortal Bushis and some Photon Thrashers for this deck, Would you consider the latter good additions? Also, instead of the more expensive Armageddon Knights/Dark Grephers, I was thinking of using Card Blocker for milling. What do you think? Vorpal Storm Pony (talk • contribs) 14:46, September 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * Photon Thrasher is great for tribute fodder and for being a 2100 beater (It's good), Knight is probably better, but Blocker can kinda work, if you need to mill, there are a few Warrior Lightsworns, that have good effects in any deck. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  14:52, September 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * My issues with Thrasher is that it can't be Normal Summoned or Set (which makes it a dead draw in my hand if I already have a monster on the field), and it can't attack if I summon another monster to the field after it. It seems really limiting, despite the high ATK. As for the Lightsworns, I have a pair of Paladin Jains, but I'm not too keen on trying to combine archetypes unless absolutely necessary, which is why I'm trying to find an alternate to the T.G. monsters in this deck. Unfortunately, the other two options I could think of - Spell Striker and Silver Sentinel - I can't get, right now, so it's kind of frustrating. Vorpal Storm Pony (talk • contribs) 15:59, September 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * I think Thrasher is just useful, a 1 card 2100 ATK beater is fine by me, and it's like you can't Xyz Summon Number 39 or Blade Armor Ninja/Heroic Champion - Excalibur... -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  16:57, September 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * That's true, and I do have a Blade Armor Ninja, so I could go that route. What do you think of possibly using Swift Gaia or maybe even Destiny Hero - Double Dude? I know the first isn't a level 6, but it could be easy to summon, and Double Dude, while not able to be Special Summoned, can be comboed with Generation Shift for deck thinning and creating tokens for Tribute Summoning.


 * I'm also trying to work on a more "fun" version of this deck, focusing on combining the Bounzers with Beast-Warriors, and the best I can think of for that would be to put in a few Minoan Centaurs with some Vorse Raiders/Gene-Warped Warwolves/Gladiator Beast Andals. What would you think of that strategy? Vorpal Storm Pony (talk • contribs) 17:09, September 2, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, I ditched the T.G. element and revamped it with the cards I managed to get on ebay. What do you think? Vorpal Storm Pony (talk • contribs) 17:36, September 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * Forget about Gaia and Double Dude, can you get another Thrasher and 2 maybe 2 Marauding Captain? Also, get a Reinforcement of the Army. I would also drop Double Summon and One Day of Peace, if you need to draw more, use 3 Upstart Goblin or 3 Reckless Greed, and maybe run 1 Compulsory Evacuation Device. But I would drop One Day and Summon, they just aren't that great overall in a deck like this. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  01:40, September 3, 2012 (UTC)

Can't get another Thrasher, right now, and I have Goblindbergh, which can replace Marauding Captain (though I'm sure I have a couple of Captains, somewhere), but after brainstorming, I think I don't need them, after I came up with this build. I still think I should put more emphasis on the Level/Rank 6 spamming, but right now, I don't know how to make that work, so this is going to have to be what I have. Vorpal Storm Pony (talk • contribs) 01:49, September 3, 2012 (UTC)


 * I think D.D. Warrior Lady is better than Bull Blader, Bull can be stopped by a lot of cards, but a face-down Warrior Lady is kinda unstoppable, since it activates right after Damage Calculation. For now, I'd use Megacyber, it isn't as great as Dodo, but it will have to do. Unless there is a Wind-Up monster that can gain 2 Levels in 1 turn and is Level 4. -- - Dark Ace SP  ( Talk )  02:51, September 3, 2012 (UTC)

I'd drop Generation Shift, you probably won't need it, as your opponent will have to eventually kill Phantom Bounzer (Costing him/her cards, while you gain cards), and killing it yourself really kinda defeats the point of searching AND getting a + 2 from it. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  02:55, September 3, 2012 (UTC)


 * I may drop it, if it proves to be a detriment to the deck, but I want to at least test it out, first. As for Warrior Lady vs. Bull Blader, I like Bull Blader better, since I can get multiple uses out of it rather than just one. I may change my mind, if Warrior Lady works out better, but that won't be until Bull Blader comes out. And no, sadly, there isn't a Wind-Up monster that is level 4 that can gain 2 levels, or evel a level 5 Wind-Up that can gain 1 level, now that I think about it, so I have to agree with you on Megacyber. Vorpal Storm Pony (talk • contribs) 03:01, September 3, 2012 (UTC)

Prophecy
OK so this deck is for the September 2012 format. I've had a bit of a hard time with the monster line up to spell ratio in this deck and I think it needs a bit more then the solemn bigaid but I can't fit anything els in and keep it at 40. This is just a starting point at the minute and the deck will be getting revampt when abys rising comes out. So with that being said hear it is. :)

User:Taylor ace


 * Hmm, I tired Prophecy, and personally, you won't need 3 Amores, just 1-2 should be fine. I don't think you need Tsukuyomi it might work, but I think Wonder Wand would be better. Other than that, it looks pretty good overall. I mean I might try to stuff in 2 Tour Guide, just for an easier Sangan, but that's about it. As it looks fairly solid for the 1st Gen Prophecy cards. The stuff in Abyss Rising really helps the deck, but for now your deck doesn't look that bad. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  23:23, August 30, 2012 (UTC)


 * Maybe include 1 Prophecy Destroyer, it's a TCG exclusive and it's pretty useful. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  14:42, September 2, 2012 (UTC)

Help With My Dragon Deck
I am new at building decks and would like help improving my current dragon deck. I would also appreciate pointers to help with beck building in the future. The cards I currently have in this deck are as follows;

I find the deck to be fairly decent but my main problem is drawing the cards I need at the right time. Any assistance that you could provide in improving this deck and how to make strong decks in the future would be greatly appreciated. I am really into Yu-Gi-Oh again and I would love to know how to create a good strong deck. Thanks a lot, JewBoy93 (talk • contribs) 03:51, August 30, 2012 (UTC)

Read Forum: Deck Guide/General. After you've read that, remake your deck, and see if you can't find ways to make it better. Your deck needs to be focused into Dragons, and right now you have a huge mess of cards that shouldn't be used (Even if you really want to summon Dragon Master Knight A.K.A Drop the Black Luster Solider Ritual Monster and Ritual Spell card, and just go for major Dragon power). If you can't find a way to remake it, then tell me, but you should be able to drop some unneeded cards. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  23:11, August 30, 2012 (UTC)

Alright thanks, I will see what I can do then post my new deck for advice (if you don't mind). thanks again.--JewBoy93 (talk • contribs) 01:51, August 31, 2012 (UTC)


 * Sure no problem. I'll be here. The guide should help remove the major stuff and I should be able to help with the minor stuff later. But the end goal is to make you a better deckbuilder, so not like it really matters how we start. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  02:48, August 31, 2012 (UTC)

Hey again, I am still reading through all the different posts from you and the one you recommended posted by Lappyzard. I have taken out a bunch of non dragon cards but I left except a few that can go well with my other dragon cards I think. Please go through my revised deck list and see if I'm making any progress.

thanks again for your help, --JewBoy93 (talk • contribs) 05:41, September 1, 2012 (UTC)


 * I'll have to fix your template, it seems to have a bug in it. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  13:44, September 1, 2012 (UTC)

Now, I have an idea for the deck, but where do you want the deck to go? I mean Dragons have really changed in the last year or so, and this new format really hurts the older style of Disaster Dragon (REDMD at 1). So if you want, we could do a Chaos Disaster Dragon Deck? Lightpulsar is really easy to summon, and there are a bunch of strong Level 4 DARK and LIGHT Dragons, like Alexandrite Dragon and Axe Dragonute. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  14:09, September 1, 2012 (UTC)

Sure we can try that. I looked up Lightpulsar and it seems like it would go really well with REDMD and I like how it still deals with light and dark and then I can still keep my BLS envoy of the beginning. Like I said the main idea is to learn better way to make a deck anyways. Thanks again for your time.


 * Did you want to make the deck? That way I can maybe give you my thoughts? See Chaos Dragon if you want a guide for it. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  14:40, September 2, 2012 (UTC)

Lightsworn Zombies
Hello I've been trying out a version of Lightsworn Zombies, because I feel it has the potential to succeed in this format Here is the deck

I am having difficulty deciding my Extra Deck because I do not know what cards may support Lightsworn Thanks in advance for the help

Vyomo Vyomo (talk • contribs) 15:07, September 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * Use the Template:Decklist and sign with 4 tildes (~) . -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  14:52, September 3, 2012 (UTC)


 * Also, see the latest Forbidden and Limited List.... -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  14:55, September 3, 2012 (UTC)

Photon/Galaxy Help
My main problem with this deck is it isn't as fast as I would like it and I often fill my hand up with too many spells.