Forum:March 2012 Banlist Predictions

Only a prediction, just comment
Banned

Sangan

Limited

XX-Saber Darksoul Infernity Barrier Magician of Faith

Semi-Limited

Gold Sarcophagus Mystical Space Typhoon

Unlimited Zero


 * Brionic: possibly
 * Infernity barrier : unlikey, if hit it would probably be semi'd
 * Rescue rabbit: semi, or limited if it gets hit,(I think it will get banned in 1 of the future banlists)
 * Gold sarcophogous: no chance of going back to the banlist with pot of duality around, its too slow for searching, the only good combo it has at the moment is banish rabbit then use tour guide into leviar to get it back.
 * Mystical space typhoon should remain at unlimited
 * Darksoul: it's not very powerfull, the most likely x saber to get hit is "XX-Saber Boggart Knight"(I'm sure x sabers are 1 of the only meta decks not have any cards on the banlist yet)

matthew.lightbody@talktalk.net (talk • contribs) 23:45, January 3, 2012 (UTC)

How time flies
Wow. We're at this time of year again. How time flies. Anyhow:

I can see Brionac being Banned, as there are just so many Synchro Monsters out there that they've become too powerful. However, that would make Fishborg Launcher next to useless, so I doubt it. Infernity Barrier should be Semi-Limited, but the archetype hasn't been topping enough for it to be Limited. I doubt it will be hit. Rescue Rabbit might be but a Semi-Limit is all I can see coming. X-Sabers topped once and haven't topped again, so I doubt Darksoul will be hit. Magician of Faith should be Limited at the very least, but it could be dangerous. Gold Sarcophagus is never used. Most people only use two MST, so there's no reason to Semi-Limit it. Also, Boggart Knight is way worse than Darksoul - the most powerful one is probably Fulhelmknight. BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 15:56, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

There is absolutely no reason to hit Darksoul. If X-Sabers really need hitting, Limit Faultroll and semi Boggart Knight. Battlemaniac (talk • contribs) 19:47, January 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * Boggart Knight isn't that good. Even in triple Pashuul builds he isn't that good. Gottoms' Emergency Call, Fulhelmknight, Faultroll, Emmersblade, and Darksoul are all far better. BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 19:49, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

I'm almost certain that Rescue Rabbit will be Semi-Limited and nothing more. I've been hearing rumours that Future Fusion could be made Forbidden but quite frankly rumours are all they are so far. Brioniac will stay limited, there are far worse cards out there that will get hit first. BLS could well find himself back on the banned list but if he stays at limited I don't think it's very likely that he'll ever go back on the banned list in future lists. With Agent Angels still topping most OCG and TCG tournaments they'll likely suffer some kind of hit like the Samurai's did though I can't think exactly what. Being as broken as they currently are I know Inzektors should take a hit but being a new archetype they'll probably walk away from the March banlist untouched. --The FireFALL (talk • contribs) 21:19, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

I think Witch of the Black Forest should go to limited. Its searching isn't the fastest kind around anymore, I'm sure people could survive it being limited instead of banned. 99.164.86.13 (talk) 22:32, January 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * Witch can still search for Dark Armed Dragon, so no. BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 22:37, January 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * Some people think DAD should be banned though, so if it gets banned then the Witch might come back in my opinion. 99.164.86.13 (talk) 22:55, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

You think Chaos Emperor Dragon will come back and replace Black luster Soldier for future Chaos theme decks? --69.181.60.66 (talk) 23:12, January 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * Konami would have to be nuts to do that. BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 23:13, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

Will anyone feel odd if Slifer the Sky Dragon get semi-limited, Limited,or forbidden in the next Banlist ? --Sinfull Paradox 23:19, January 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * No, not at all. It's not even out yet. BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 23:20, January 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * Do you think Magician of Faith will ever come back? A lot of meta decks seem to consider flip-effects "too slow," except for maybe Ryko, Lightsworn Hunter, so it might be back some day. 99.164.86.13 (talk) 23:23, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

Want Crush Card virus to back .... love that card than let it collect dust in folder. --Sinfull Paradox 23:29, January 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * I want my Giant Trunade back... sniffle... 99.164.86.13 (talk) 23:37, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

Tsukoyomi should come back, most people generally agree it's not broken anymore Neon Rider (talk • contribs) 23:28, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

Royal oppression should be limited again, its not banworthy. With reborn tengu, tour guide and rescue rabbit being so frequently used, this card should be limited again to provide a counter against them, I would rather this and solemn warning were limited than this card being bannned, the banning of this card is very pointless. With a meta where most top tier decks can specail summon 3 or 4+ times a turn this card is needed to slow them down.

matthew.lightbody@talktalk.net (talk • contribs) 00:40, January 6, 2012 (UTC)
 * Royal Oppression is an unfair card in so many ways. It's super beneficial to some decks and totally devastating to others.

I think BLS should be Banned too. BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 00:41, January 6, 2012 (UTC)

I think royal oppression, is still vital for stopping mass swarming ,and to improve the speed and consistency of slower decks. Most of the decks that are at an unfair disadvantage to this card have an unfair adavantage over the slower decks, like inzectors who easily 3 monsters in a single turn and destroy cards.

matthew.lightbody@talktalk.net (talk • contribs) 00:48, January 6, 2012 (UTC)
 * It makes the game slower. Inzektors would just kill Oppression. Oppression is just an unfair card giving lots of advantage to one deck. BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 00:53, January 6, 2012 (UTC)


 * Could Crush Card Virus get limited someday? It's extremely powerful, but it's probably not as horrible anymore, and I don't see too many meta decks that would extensively try to search out their single copy to use. 99.165.194.184 (talk) 02:16, January 6, 2012 (UTC) My ideal banlist would be Dark Armed Dragon and Brionac, Dragon of the Ice Barrier banned, Tsukuyomi, Witch of the Black Forest, Magician of Faith, Giant Trunade, and Fishborg Blaster limited, Rescue Rabbit semi-limited, and maybe Call of the Haunted unlimited. 99.165.194.184 (talk) 02:25, January 6, 2012 (UTC)

You can usually tell if a card is gone forever if they release a new card with very similar effects to it. In this case Rescue Cat, Crush Card Virus and Fishborg Blaster are never coming back as they all have alternates released now, them being Rescue Rabbit(which itself is certainly going to be hit), Deck Destruction Virus and Fishborg Launcher. Call of the Haunted is perfect being semi-limited, for Giant Trunade it's a case of it or Heavy Storm and I've gotta say I much prefer Heavy Storm over Giant Trunade any day. Also Tsukuyomi is NEVER coming back as there is far to many broken combos that can be done with her.

I am of the mind that Last Turn should come off the ban list for the first week that Number C39: Utopia Ray is released just for the hilarity that could be pulled off with it and then immediately banned again afterwards.

And on a more serious side to add to my last list Judgment Dragon needs to go back to being either semi-limited or just plain limited. Light Sworns were actually cool with him being semi-limited no need for the overkill that comes with him being unlimited. Same goes for Icarus Attack and Ultimate Offering, though with Ultimate Offering it needs to go to limited to stop Gadgets abusing it when Verz Ouroboros comes out.--The FireFALL (talk • contribs) 08:54, January 6, 2012 (UTC)


 * Last Turn will never come back. Everyone would build their deck around it and Fossil Dyna Pachycephalo. 99.165.194.184 (talk) 11:14, January 6, 2012 (UTC)

Fishborg Blaster never deserved a ban anyway. It's good, but what broke the deck were multiples of Formula (solved, since Formula has been Limited), multiples of Avarice (solved, since Avarice has been Limited), and T.G. Hyper Librarian. Ban Librarian, and Fishborg can come back completely. Battlemaniac (talk • contribs) 17:36, January 6, 2012 (UTC)
 * Fishborg does deserve the ban due to the large number of overpowered things you could do. Even without three Avarice, Formula, and Librarian, there are still far too many reasons why it is too good. Any Tuner you can get back infinite times in a turn is too good. BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 17:41, January 6, 2012 (UTC)
 * Agreed there, it is too much (especialy in a Fish deck that abuses it to get "Shooting Quasar Dragon" out, and tons of other Synchros). Shardsilver (talk • contribs) 17:45, January 6, 2012 (UTC)

I think that they'll almost certainly hit one of the main components of the Plant Engine - Dandylion or Glow-Up Bulb. I really hope that they don't as I love the plays that these cards make possible...alternatively they might hit One for One. BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 18:54, January 6, 2012 (UTC)


 * They might go for "Dandylion", since it can be somewhat abused by cards such as "Drill Warrior" to get more Tokens. Then there's "Quickdraw Synchron" taking advantage of them on your very first turn. Shardsilver (talk • contribs) 19:11, January 6, 2012 (UTC)
 * Synchron Decks are not topping, Quickdraw Synchron and Drill Warrior aren't issues. BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 19:15, January 6, 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree with that (not to mention Synchron Decks are powerless against just about any Banish Deck). "Glow-Up Bulb" isn't so bad, because the effect can only be used once per Duel (if it were "Once every turn", then it would be banned for sure). Shardsilver (talk • contribs) 19:30, January 6, 2012 (UTC)

I know it's unlikely, but personally I hope Cyber Jar becomes limited. It doesn't seem any more overpowered than Morphing Jar 2, which isn't banned, as it sends the cards to the graveyard instead of back into the deck which usually hinders the opponent more, and has less deck destruction than Morphing Jar 2 as you both only draw 5 cards. Its a fun card to use when playing traditional format, and I'd like to see how it would affect advanced --2.100.10.105 (talk) 22:59, January 6, 2012 (UTC)

Why everyone hates on Dark Armed Dragon ? It has a semi-hard summoning condition to summon it on the field. Alot ways to remove/destroy/return/ counter it. I hope they remove it from limited to semi-limited. --69.181.60.66 (talk) 23:10, January 6, 2012 (UTC)--69.181.60.66 (talk) 23:12, January 6, 2012 (UTC)

I predict Evolzar Laggia being limited. Rescue rabbits are topping easy, and this card is the main reason, other than rescue rabbit it's self.

BLS should go..too much decks today use light and dark

many decks now rely on grave so monster reborn should be banned it tackes opponent's monster with no cost

if that happens my chaos deck is gonna be harmed LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 02:46, January 7, 2012 (UTC)

Cyber Jar is insanely good in decks built around it, generating tons of advantage. The effect of Glow-Up Bulb, while only usable once per duel, is extremely good. Dark Armed Dragon is very powerful. Monster Reborn is fine at one, it's a great card that makes this game interesting. BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 14:13, January 7, 2012 (UTC)

Banlist Prediction
FORBIDDEN


 * Monster Reborn - just a feeling. But I think not.
 * Brionac, Dragon of the Ice Barrier - same comment as Monster Reborn

LIMITED


 * Royal Oppression - 3 MST, 1 Heavy Storm, and some other guys will just kill this card, before it can negate.
 * Goyo Guardian - If Brionac goes, I think Goyo goes back. But it depends.

SEMI-LIMITED


 * Rescue Rabbit - limit it to 2 for now, just like what they did to Rescue Cat. But if this card still affects the meta after limiting it to 2, maybe the next banlist it will be limited to 1.
 * Master Hyperion - to much for a boss card.
 * Inzektor Dragonfly - I mean if this deck would be hit this banlist, but I guess maybe in September.
 * Gladiator Beast Bestiari - Well, GB are not really kicking anymore.

UNLIMITED


 * Magical Stone Excavation - no one uses this card anyways.
 * Solemn Warning - Well, not really.
 * Call of the Haunted - Uhm. Same comment as Solemn Warning.

Jampong (talk • contribs) 05:29, January 8, 2012 (UTC)

As many people have stated earlier a lot of decks use the graveyard now and most of them have ways to summon their monsters from the graveyard without the need of Monster Reborn. Thus I'm of the mind it should stay at one so that decks which don't rely on the graveyard have a bit more of a fighting chance.--The FireFALL (talk • contribs) 08:31, January 8, 2012 (UTC)

Bestiari is too good to Semi-Limit, and they have topped recently so I doubt it will be Semi'd. Agents haven't topped recently, so the same would apply here. Everyone uses Solemn Warning, and three would be too much. Especially if Royal Oppression were Limited, which I really don't think it will be. BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 14:37, January 8, 2012 (UTC)

By the way, Fishborg has 3 more targets besides Brionac. :3 And in all WATER deck where it's run, they should be able to easily pull Dewloren just as easily. Brionac COULD be banned because of loops (silly Infernity Trish loop :P), but I don't see it myself. When is Konami gonna learn that they can't safely make a card that can be used an infinite amount of times in 1 turn? Also, I think BLS will stay for at least 1 more format, as it's just more easily handled than in the past. Still tough, don't get me wrong, but not AS tough. Synchro Maniac10 (talk • contribs) 15:04, January 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * Fishborg Launcher? BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 15:01, January 8, 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, wasn't signed in. :3 And yes, Launcher. Synchro Maniac10 (talk • contribs) 15:04, January 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * I've tried a Launcher Deck, it really sucks. If they do hit Brionac, Launcher is going to be dead. Dewloren really isn't that good without loops and Gishilnodon sucks, leaving just Gungnir and Trishula. BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 15:06, January 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * That's just the point. :3 You're not playing it correctly. I'll have to show you my 2 decks I use it in. Actually, Dewloren becomes viable if you add just a few cards to recycle with him. Also, you can't summon Gishilnodon with Launcher, as Gishilnodon requires a Lv 3 non-Tuner, and 1 + 3 = 4, so, yeah. xD Synchro Maniac10 (talk • contribs) 00:07, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

my predictions
banned


 * monster reborn-with all these grave control decks its becoming broken
 * BLS-many decks modify themself to play it deadly effects
 * brionac-obvious...VERY obvious.lethal bounce effect.no specific monsters required WATER and sea serpant are becoming very supported
 * DAD-easy summon lethal effect high atk very supported attribute and type

limited

rescue rabbit-free rank 2-4 xyz
 * magician of faith-too slow VERY low stats gets only 1 spell back and takes your normal summon
 * witch of black forest-not very broken anymore

semi limited


 * master hyperion-lethal.easy summon good effect high atk
 * judgment dragon-lethal.mass destruction with low cost very high atk
 * level limit-area b-with xyz out its not that broken

Master Hyperion will probably get hit anyway if Agent decks continue to be tier 1Ja1lbreakr0cks (talk • contribs) 17:34, January 29, 2012 (UTC) thats the list i thought of LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 16:04, January 8, 2012 (UTC)

"Monster Reborn" and "Brionac" need to go for sure ("Brionac's" effect is a little overkill, even though there are many ways to get rid of it). "Rescue Rabbit" should definitly be limited. Shardsilver (talk • contribs) 16:12, January 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * There's a few flaws with a few of those. DAD is no longer as useful, since there isn't an easy way to search it, and that makes it inconsistent. This is one reason WotBF is Forbidden. There are many powerful cards that can be searched with her, including DAD. Monster Reborn is fine where it is. If you're gonna ban Reborn, you might as well ban Dark Hole. The 2 are about equally broken, since they can turn the game in your favor. Since when are Sea Serpents becoming well supported? Sure, because of Generation Fish, they are getting some support, but it's pretty bad. Brionac starts loops, but it's basically the only Lv 6 Staple Synchro now. Honestly, I think they'd bring Goyo Guardian back before they ban Brio. Magician of Faith is very searchable and can loop with The Shallow Grave. It's just that he can recover devastating spells you don't wanna see twice in one duel, such as Dark Hole and Heavy Storm. Dino Rabbits should be much weaker after you put Rabbit at 2 and limit Laggia, maybe. This makes their plays a lot more difficult to pull off. Hyperion is ok at 3, Agents haven't been topping. They just brought JD off the list last format, and I agree with that choice. Lightsworns are no longer as solid as they've been in the past, and now require too much luck to top. BLS, I still haven't figured him out, but I think it's Konami's call on that one, while Level Limit I agree with. Synchro Maniac10 (talk • contribs) 00:30, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

Banned: Monster Reborn Solemn Judgement Maxx "C" Limited: Chaos Sorcerer Premature Burial Chaos Emperor Dragon - Envoy of the End Thousand-Eyes Restrict Metamorphosis Change of Heart Baby Tiragon Witch of the Black Forest

Semi-limited: Mystical Space Typhoon Pot of Duality Dust Tornado Spirit Reaper

Unlimited:

DAD won't be hit, but you can search it with Eclipse Wyvern. I don't see why they'd Semi-Limit MST, most players don't use more than 2. Nobody uses Dust Tornado outside of Side Decks. Metamorphosis is amazing. Chaos Sorcerer isn't worthy of a Limit. Solemn Judgment is fine at one. Maxx "C" isn't broken. CED is insanely good. Premature Burial combos with Wanghu and other cards. Restrict is far too good. Change of Hart is so broken. Baby Tiragon is bad. Witch is too good. BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 00:45, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

Everyone should remember that the ban list is always based on what's happened in the OCG and not the TCG and over there Agent Angels are still topping more often then not, if anything though I admit that the T.Gs will most likely suffer some sort of hit. As Agent decks are a lot less powerful without the T.G backup. I'm hoping that when ORC comes out in two weeks time that we see an emergency ban for the Inzektors in some way. As they're topping way to much to not be hit but then again being a new deck it may take until September until they get hit.--The FireFALL (talk • contribs) 01:38, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

Yugioh Spring of 2012 banned list predictions
I am currently Predicting that:

Banned:

Brionac, Dragon of the Ice Barrier - broken, but not likely to get hit since there aren't many other solid 6 star synchros.

T.G. Hyper Librarian - no reason to ban it, it's fine at 1

Limited:

Chaos Emperor Dragon - Envoy of the End - Broken though powerful. Several cards that are played can still negate it. - ridiculously broken, too easy to combo with. if it does come back it's proof Konami hates everyone.

Thousand-eyes Restrict - Broke can be negated easily now and just got to tyhoon the monster to give this monster a atk0/def0 - this card is too stupid. it's almost as bad as yata. it's not coming back.

Pot of Duality - Over used. - maybe semi-ed, won't get limited because its conditions balance it out.

Magician of Faith - needs to come back. - this card should NOT come back. there are too many limited spells that this card gets. not as broken as it once was, but still too broken.

Chaos Sorcerer - Over used/ asked for. - not a chance. It's just not strong enough.

Pot of Greed - Might as well come back.. not that powerful any more - you can't be serious. you really cannot be serious. just stop.

Dark Magician of Chaos - not that powerful any more... takes 2 sacs to bring out.. with Synchros you can easily beat it.

Dust Tornado - More powerful then Mystical Space Typhoon - nobody runs it. some people side it but that's it.

Metamorphosis - Only one good card to bring out with it... Restrict.

Graceful Charity - umm.. hello... you have to discard 2 cards so basically you aren't adding jack to your hand. -Graceful Charity can be abused with Dark World decks. I'd know, I run one, although I too would like to see it limited because I run a Dark World deckJa1lbreakr0cks (talk • contribs) 00:17, January 17, 2012 (UTC) - picture this card in lightsworns. chaos decks. dark worlds. infernities. ANY deck that puts things in the graveyard. it's a neutral that lets you pick what's in your hand and in your graveyard, it makes it far too easy to set up a win. This card is almost more dangerous than pot of greed.

Semi - Limited:

Spirit Reaper - reaper is unimportant.

Unlimited:

None

Master of OZ (talk • contribs) 03:44, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

SEMI MONSTER REBORN? Limit Ced and pot of greed? Ban solemn judgmend? One of the main cards that can stop CED is solemn judgment. Konami isn't crazy you know LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 04:04, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

Solemn Judgment and Pot of Greed will stay where they are. Judgment is the only card in Yugioh which can stop everything and the price to use it is high. Banning it would only serve to widen the divide between the meta decks and all other decks. Pot of Greed is never coming back as we now have Shard of Greed, which to be honest won't get touched until people realize just how good it is.--The FireFALL (talk • contribs) 04:04, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

Just saw that Oz suggested unbanning Graceful Charity with the excuse 'umm.. hello... you have to discard 2 cards so basically you aren't adding jack to your hand. ' and yes while that is true if you're running either a Fabled or Dark World deck it gives you MAJOR pluses thus why it was banned in the first place. Honestly people before asking for a card to be unbanned at least think why it was banned in the first place!--The FireFALL (talk • contribs) 06:15, January 9, 2012 (UTC)


 * Back when it was banned Fableds and Dark Worlds weren't out. It was banned because it's a broken version of Pot of Duality, it's a 1 for 1 but you chose which out of your entire hand to discard. So it sets up your hand and grave with no downside at all.101.162.51.126 (talk) 06:38, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

My comments on everything seen here so far, and more
Brionac probably won't get banned, for the reason BF2 said: Konami wants money and banning it would make Fishborg Launcher basically useless. Furthermore, it isn't that overpowered. There are much better things worth getting banned. And no, if it gets banned, Goyo Guardian will not come back. If Goyo was a higher Level, such as 8, it would be fair. As a Level 6, it's broken.

I can see why Monster Reborn would be banned. If it is banned, as long as it and Premature Burial are both banned, I wouldn't mind DMoC coming back.

Premature Burial will never come back, not as long as Dewloren/Brionac are around. Use it on one, return it to hand by their effect, use it again. Hidden Armory can recycle it, too.

Giant Trunade will stay gone, especially with 2 Swords and 2 CotH. Speaking of CotH, it is EXTREMELY unlikely that it will go to 3. It is a great card, and it is too good to be Unlimited.

Rescue Rabbit will not go below 2 this next format. If it remains a problem at 2, it will go down further next format. Evolzar Laggia is fine where it is. I doubt they'll hit it, since most duels only 1 or 2 of it hit the field.

Darksoul? What? X-Sabers haven't even been topping. Same for Infernity Barrier. Once the decks start topping again, then you can think about it. I think both are fine even with the decks topping really. The problem with X-Sabers is Faultroll. The problem with Infernities is the Mirage + Street Patrol combo into the Trishula loop.

Magician of Faith should stay banned in my opinion. If they get rid of Reborn I wouldn't mind it going to 1 though. It's not that overpowered anymore.

Gold Sarcophagus is fine. Only Rabbit decks use it because it's so slow.

MST is probably fine, it's not that good of a card really. It's just a 1 for 1 card. Heavy Storm is fine, too, since it's at 1. If they ban Heavy Storm, MST MUST stay at 3, because Trunade is not gonna come back.

Future Fusion might be banned simply because of the HERO Quasar deck.

BLS-EotB could quite easily be banned again. It's also just as likely that BLS-EotB will stay at 1. Chaos Emperor Dragon - Envoy of the End will most likely never come back. It's too overpowered, especially with plays involving Sangan/Dandylion/Glow-Up Bulb/Spore/etc.

As for Agents, Hyperion is the most likely card to suffer a hit. I can see it going to 2, although it would be funny if they hit Mystical Shine Ball instead.

As for Inzektors, they can get hit in March anyways, but it's unlikely. They're already out in OCG though so who knows. They'll be out in TCG for around a month before the list. Dragonfly and/or Hornet to 2, maybe 1.

Witch of the Black Forest and DAD are inversely proportional in the amount of copies of each we get. If we have DAD, we don't have Witch. If we have Witch, we don't have DAD. End of story. Then again, they could both be banned. But they will never be out together. Sangan would probably get banned if Witch came back, too. As it is, I'm of the mind that DAD is less of a problem than Witch, so it should stay as is. Sangan could easily get banned regardless of a change to Witch's ban status, however.

Slifer the Sky Dragon is fine as it is. It's not that good. Only Frogs and Gadgets would use it anyways.

CCV comes back when--never. ESPECIALLY not with Sangan around. So many combos... Just what we needed, Tour Guide into a search and the death of all 1500 and higher ATK monsters.

Tsukuyomi should stay banned. As the List of Reasons for why cards are Currently Banned states, "Reusable Book of Moon effect. Hamster, Ryko, Hamster, Ryko ... OMG NOO!!!!!" Speaking of BoM, it would be fine at 2 in my opinion. Especially with the possibility of Priority going away, it would be great at 2.

Royal Oppression is a bit biased and broken. Really the only massive-swarm deck that can beat it easily is Inzektors, and only because they pop it before they swarm. However, with 3 MST and 1 Heavy Storm, it could possibly be alright to bring it back.

Last Turn will NEVER come back. EVER. Archlord Kristya, Jowgen the Spiritualist, Fossil Dyna Pachycephalo, and Vanity's Fiend all make Last Turn an OTK with a 0% chance of your opponent winning. There are also a variety of ways to almost always ensure a win with cards that will always have a higher ATK than the opponent's monsters: The Wicked Avatar, Kazejin, Sanga of the Thunder, and Suijin. Alternatively, pick any monster with more than 3800 ATK, since the highest ATK a monster Summonable by Last Turn can have is 3800 (Beast Machine King Barbaros Ür). Furthermore, you can almost always guarantee a draw with cards such as Neo-Spacian Grand Mole, D.D. Warrior Lady, etc. I'll just leave | THIS here.

Judgment Dragon, Icarus Attack, and Ultimate Offering? No, no, and no. They're all fine. Lightsworns don't top as it is, so 3 JD would be fine. Blackwings and Dragunities don't top as it is, so 3 Icarus Attack should be fine. Ultimate Offering is fine, too. While Gadgets do have a nasty swarm engine with it, until HA07 they won't have Daigusto Emeral, allowing them to recycle their Gadgets over and over and over, as well as granting great draw power. Tribute 2 Emeral and a Lavalval Chain for Slifer, Ra, or Obelisk. I've seen this combo used to get out Horakhty easily, on turn 2 or 3.

Banning T.G. Hyper Librarian will NOT allow for Fishborg Blaster to come back. The problem with Librarian is that its effect isn't just once per turn. Alternatively, that it doesn't require a T.G. monster. Alternatively, that it is Level 5. Make it Level 8 and people won't be complaining. Actually, they still would. One for One + Dandylion + Glow-Up Bulb in the Deck + Spore in Graveyard/Foolish Burial + any Level 4 non-Tuner = Quasar if Librarian was Level 8. Then again, it does anyways. Never mind. :S (1for1, dis dandy, ss bulb, 2 tokens, foolish spore, normal the l4, spore eff, ban dandy, ss spore as l4, sync lib (if it's l5, spore + token; if it's l8, spore + the l4), sync formula using bulb and a token, draw 2, mill 1 for bulb eff, ss bulb, sync for final stars needed (if lib is l8, bulb + token for recipro; if it's l5, bulb + the l4 for catastor), draw 1, sync quasar using the 3 synchros.) At least it would mean that Fishborg Blaster wouldn't be as big of a problem as it is with Librarian as a Level 5.

If any part of the Plant Engine is hit, it would be Dandylion, not Glow-Up Bulb. Bulb is once per Duel, while Dandylion can be used over and over. Also, Debris Dragon + Dandylion = win.

The reason Cyber Jar is better than Morphing Jar 2 is that Cyber Jar has a set number of cards. That made it much easier to abuse, allowing the controller to gain advantage with ease. Morphing Jar 2 was at 2 for a time, but then destruction of monsters by effects became favored to destruction of monsters by battle in '05, and it came back up to 3. Nevertheless, Cyber Jar is one of the banned cards most likely to return. (Information courtesy of the List of Reasons for why cards are Currently Banned.)

Gladiator Beast Bestiari is Limited for a reason. If it was at 2, I would fear for our lives as GBs took over the meta. Its effect isn't the biggest problem, really. The main problem is the part where Gyzarus annihilates the opponent's field.

MSE would probably be fine at 3, but who knows. It's at 2 for a reason: Empty Jar decks, etc.

Solemn Warning is fine where it is. I can see it going either up or down though. The cost makes it not so useful above 2, but it could also be cut to 1 just as easily as it could be raised to 3. Solemn Judgment is fine where it is. It costs half of your Life Points. It's fair.

Level Limit - Area B should stay at 1, although I can see it going to 2. With Gravity Bind at 3, I don't see a need for more Area B. And anyways, Area B is better than Gravity Bind in that most monsters have higher ATK than DEF.

I saw this: "Banned: Monster Reborn Solemn Judgement Maxx "C" Limited: Chaos Sorcerer Premature Burial Chaos Emperor Dragon - Envoy of the End Thousand-Eyes Restrict Metamorphosis Change of Heart Baby Tiragon Witch of the Black Forest Semi-limited: Mystical Space Typhoon Pot of Duality Dust Tornado Spirit Reaper

Unlimited:" ^Worst ideas ever. I covered Monster Reborn, Solemn Judgment, Premature Burial, Chaos Emperor Dragon - Envoy of the End, Witch of the Black Forest, and MST earlier. Maxx "C" is fine, although a drop to 2 would be okay. Chaos Sorcerer is fine. Nobody ever runs 3 anyways. Thousand-Eyes Restrict is staying banned, end of story. Too broken, and with Instant Fusion... Metamorphosis is staying banned simply because of Beast King Barbaros, Fusilier Dragon, the Dual-Mode Beast, and Metal Reflect Slime. Check its Card Tips page. Furthermore, it and Thousand-Eyes Restrict can never be at 1 in the same banlist. Change of Heart is staying banned forever. It's a free +1, and its worse counterpart Brain Control is also banned, and Brain Control's worse counterpart Mind Control is at 1. Change of Heart will never return. Baby Tiragon isn't nearly as good as Number 83: Galaxy Queen, and that's at 3, too. Pot of Duality is fine at 3. Few people even bother running 3. Dust Tornado isn't used anyways. It's fine as it is. Spirit Reaper is fine, nobody runs more than 2 really, usually no more than 1.

Pot of Greed will never come back, get that over your thick skulls everybody, EVERY banlist prediction, somebody says that. It won't happen. End of story. It's a free +1, and it speeds the deck up a lot. Allure + Pot of Greed + 2 Destiny Draw + 3 Trade-In would make Exodia decks very happy.

Graceful Charity will never come back. It's WAY too fast.

Please, people, read the List of Reasons for why cards are Currently Banned. It's a guide for what is likely to happen. Use it to make REASONABLE guesses.

This massive list was written over the course of 2 or 3 hours by Menace13 (talk • contribs) at 07:44, January 9, 2012 (UTC).

Well said Menace and I agree with a lot of what you've put. Also I want to state now that my earlier comment about bringing back Last Turn was a JOKE! Seriously, I would have thought people would have known it was a joke by the fact I said only bring it back for the first week that Utopia Ray was out then ban it again! Of course it's never coming back! Although now that I think about it, this list is devoid of one card which is being abused quite often nowadays. Leviair the Sea Dragon. If this took a hit then it would help to neuter the decks which run Rabbit.--82.44.42.171--The FireFALL (talk • contribs) 08:27, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

where there any infernity cards that were baned or limited they should take outt infernity launcher or was it wavine motion inferno off the list cause there hasnt been any good support cards for the infernity archetype in a while. --69.181.60.66 (talk) 08:14, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

they should make elemental hero stratos semi-limited as it can only search for HERO cards and its 2nd effect is too hard to get it to destroy several spell/traps KingDuque777 (talk • contribs) 12:55, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

Leviair is an amazing card but you would have to Ban it to make much of an impact as Decks don't run more than one copy. Instead, Infernity Launcher should be Banned and Archfiend Semi-Limited. However, this will not happen until the Deck starts topping again. BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 13:46, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

Bann Infernity Launcher and semi-limit Infernity Archfiend and you will have killed what remains of the good points of the Infernities handless combos...I saw lot of people here only look for their own improvement. I disagree with Leviair or the Infernitys hiting the bannlist. Instead, I think Tour Guide, Rabbit and Black Luster will hit because they are topping too much. Maybe we will see again Judgment Dragon at 2, because 3 is overkilling indeed.

Koonami updated a thing about Dark World cards a while ago saying the they can not use their discard effects if the discard to the graveyard was a cost... therefore Graceful Charity is in no use to the Dark World cards AT ALL.

Master of OZ (talk • contribs) 14:49, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

No, Graceful Charity works in Dark World, because it's not a cost. It is one of the effects of the card. It's always been that way.129.1.192.124 (talk) 14:52, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

Even Koonami states that the discarding of 2 cards in Graceful Charity is a cost.. If any card that states to do something without giving the option to do something else in its place its is a cost.. thus I draw 3 then my cost is discarding 2.. this has been a known face since Graceful Charity came out. Master of OZ (talk • contribs) 14:56, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

Wrong on two accounts. First, Graceful Charity is an effect. It says "then discard two cards", so it can't possibly be a cost. Second, Launcher and Archfiend are extremely overpowered. If you want to hurt them, hit those cards. The Deck can still do things without them. BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 16:00, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

Guys costs come BEFORE the effect not after it! So graceful charity is still broken it benifits fabled/DW/any deck that needs cards in graveyard LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 16:07, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

I just messaged Koonami on what they say it is. When I get a response I will post it on here. Master of OZ (talk • contribs) 17:12, January 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Must you continue this? You're wrong and your explanation is wrong. BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 17:51, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

If discarding 2 cards for graceful charity was the cost, then it would have to be at the start of the effect before the 3 cars are drawn.

matthew.lightbody@talktalk.net (talk • contribs) 17:54, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

I will continue this.. I don't believe you.. cost can come afterwards..
 * No it can't, actually. The cost has to come first, otherwise you're not paying for it beforehand. BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 17:58, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

well I don't believe any of you because I don't know you.. thus I will find out from Koonami.. the creator of the cards... they'll know better. Master of OZ (talk • contribs) 18:04, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

Ok this might be the first time me and BF2 agree about something but yeah if graceful charity's discard was a cost it would say:"discard 2 cards to draw 3 cards" So its an effect lol LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 18:04, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

like I said if I know know you I don't trust you unless you are the creator of the game... so STFU.. Master of OZ (talk • contribs) 18:13, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

implying that only the game creators have knowledge and understanding of the game....

matthew.lightbody@talktalk.net (talk • contribs) 18:29, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

K you can just belive anything graceful charity isnt coming back LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 18:38, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

true knowledge and understanding of the game yes.. Master of OZ (talk • contribs) 18:38, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

Actually, while Kazuki Takahashi created the game, I'm pretty certain that his main focus is on the manga (and to a lesser extent, the anime) than the actual game, and I've heard that he doesn't play (although that may not be true). BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 18:53, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

Give it up Oz, you're arguing with people who most likely are judges for Konami anyway and yes they are right Graceful Charity is NOT a cost. A cost is the price to activate the card, therefore you cannot have the effect before you've paid the cost. Thus Graceful Charity is NOT a cost as you draw before you discard.--The FireFALL (talk • contribs) 18:57, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

Well they have people on staff that actually have played the game to help with the card rulings.And have a true understanding of the game... I've been playing since 2001/2002. Master of OZ (talk • contribs) 18:59, January 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * So have I. BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 19:01, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

I have ODD don't tell me to give it up or I'll continue.. dummy... so STFU and go with my statements. Master of OZ (talk • contribs) 19:04, January 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Obnoxious Dumbness Disorder? BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 19:04, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

Yes they do have people on staff and they're called JUDGES! But in this instance we don't need one because it can be solved with a piece of light reading on your part. Read Cost please, this is the page which explains the rules of what a cost is and quite honestly you need to read it. Also please stop falling back on to the 'I've been playing since 2001' because you know what SO HAVE I! And if you don't honestly know the difference between a card's cost and effect by now then really where the hell have you been playing this game?--The FireFALL (talk • contribs) 19:05, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

ODD = Oppositional Defiance Disorder - aka you oppose(disagree) me I can get really pissed. I have read the card and I disagree with you.I have judged it for myself.. and have decided it is a cost not an effect. Costs can come after words if explained in the text of the card that you have to do something after you do its effect. And I disagree with that article for the most part. Master of OZ (talk • contribs) 19:16, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

You can't just "decide" that it's a cost. BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 19:17, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

yes I can.. I ran tournaments.. so I know what I am talking about. Master of OZ (talk • contribs) 19:22, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

I really doubt it. And you don't know what you're talking about. This article is right. Konami Banned Graceful Charity because of Dark World monsters. BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 19:25, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

Don't argue much Oz..im not saying that im the best here but i,firefall and bf2 know what we're talking about and GC is an effect you know what helped it going to the banlist? It has no costs LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 19:32, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

So you are saying because it helps out one specific monster type/meta it should stay banned that is illogical.. if that is the case then there are many many more cards that are like that that should be banned as well and are not.. there for it being banned is totally illogical. Master of OZ (talk • contribs) 19:35, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

Right enough is enough. Oz even though I can't tell if you're just plain trolling or you really do believe that Graceful Charity is a cost. Everyone here has told you that Graceful Charity isn't a cost but you keep believing it's a cost until the Konami people get back to you. They'll tell you exactly the same as we've told you but if that's the only thing that will convince you then so be it. So let's all now drop this Graceful Charity bs and get back to our ban list predictions!--The FireFALL (talk • contribs) 19:35, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

Right, i heared that the banlists are decided by weakening the decks that win in tournaments so can anybody give me a page that allows me to see the top decks in tournaments? LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 19:40, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

RABBIT WON'T GET LIMITED!
I just want to say a lot of people are saying Rabbit is gonna get limited but if they do we still have Guiba, Hydrogeddeon, and that new Evol coming out in Order of Chaos so if the limit anything they are gonna limit the Laggia and Dolka. Why would they limit the fuel when the machine using the fuel is the big problem.

The Evols aren't that great as a whole, and while Hydrogeddon is good, most decks are using Dimensional Fissure because of the edge it gives them. Guaiba does not deserve to be hit. BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 21:22, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

There is even a ruling on the Wiki stating that it is an effect. ""Goblin of Greed" prevents discarding as a cost, but not as part of an effect. So "Goblin of Greed" will stop "Kuriboh", but not ... "Graceful Charity"."

As for Leviair, it doesn't deserve to be banned, and limiting it wouldn't fix anything. It's not the problem.

They would have to drop Laggia to 1 for it to help much. It's rare for two to be Summoned by the same player in the same duel. They usually go 1 Laggia and 1 Dolkka. Then the duel ends because they won. Limiting it to one would hurt the deck a bit, but not enough to kill it as badly as it needs to be killed. Menace13 (talk • contribs) at 22:51, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

Rescue Rabbit should be banned just like Rescue Cat, konami has not learned anything fom rescue cat, it dosn't matter how many restrictions they give it. If it is a level 4 or lower monster who has no summoning restrictions, and MOST importantly the fact that he summons 2 monsters from the deck using only 1 card. Any level 4 or lower monsters who can specail summon 2 monsters from the deck during the main phase for no cost, can and will be abused. Especailly seen as it only ever used to get out the 2 evolzars. It was designed to be an xyz support card, but not specifically for juat these 2 xyz monsters. The 2 evolzars are both very overpowered themselves, laggia is a solemn judgemnt with 2400 attack, and dolkka is 2 Doomcaliber Knights in 1 card, they both deserve to be limited. Rescue rabbit would be so much fairer it's effect stopped you from xyz summoning on the very first turn of the duel. Finally I think it is unfair how you can call prioity with rabbit against Trap Hole, and how rabbit dodges the effect of Effect Veiler.

You can get Rescue Rabbit with Leviair the Sea Dragon. Dump rabbit in the banish zone with Gold Sarcophagus then use Tour Guide From the Underworld, to summon leviar then get rabbit back. Gold + tour guide is still a rabbit with 2 cards. Exact same as monk, getting a monster(tour guide) who is unlmited and the spell: Gold Sarcophagus. It's just as easy matthew.lightbody@talktalk.net (talk • contribs) 23:40, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

Koonami stated that it was an effect of Graceful Charity... sorry... I wanted to be told by Koonami. Please accept my apologies everyone.. Master of OZ (talk • contribs) 23:44, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

Will we see reborn tengu up on the forbidden list?Ja1lbreakr0cks (talk • contribs) 00:49, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

MY NEW PREDICTION of the Ban list 2012(March)
Banned:

Rescue Rabbit

Shard of Greed

Honest

Sangan

Morphing Jar

Dandylion

Marshmallon Reborn Tengu

Pot of Avarice << this card is more powerful then Pot of Greed.. hello adding 5 monsters to your deck then drawing 2.. over play much.

Thousand-Eyes Restrict - can be easily negated now.

Metamorphosis - hello there are more negate spells cards out there to negate it.

Limited:

Change of Heart

Pot of Greed

Call of the Haunted

Giant Trunade

Premature Burial

Chaos Sorcerer

Semi- Limited:

Spirit Reaper

Mystical Space Typhoon

Mirror Force

Unlimited:

Magical Stone Excavation

Laggia and Dolkka are fine as they are. Rabbit isn't anywhere near as broken as Rescue Cat (Rescue Cat could be gotten by Summoner Monk etc. while Rescue Rabbit can't be). The only thing necessary and appropriate to do to the Deck is to Semi-Limit Rescue Rabbit until it has been proven that it requires further hindrances.

No, Reborn Tengu will not be getting Semi-Limited or Limited this format. It's still TCG only.

As for you, Huguenot.Pirate, please use 4 tildes after your post so we know who you are.

As for your ideas, they all suck. All offense intended.

As I've said dozens of times before in this thread, Rescue Rabbit is fine. LOLWAT Shard of Greed? It's not even used much, and it's hardly good. And you want them to ban it while they unban Pot of Greed? Please, for goodness sake, read the thread before you decrease the intelligence of the entire thread in a single post. Honest is fine as it is. At one, it isn't easy to abuse, and almost no meta decks use it at the moment (Agents and Lightsworns have been going down in popularity and topping less and less frequently). Just search through the thread for my earlier opinion on Sangan. Morphing Jar? Why? It's not even used in any deck other than Dark Worlds and Fableds, and of course Empty Jar. Of those, only Dark Worlds have been topping. Dandylion is one of the few good ideas you had on that list; if anything in the Plant Synchro engine gets hit, it will be Dandylion. Marshmallon? LOL! Nobody uses it. NOBODY. Spirit Reaper is dozens of times better. Reborn Tengu, as I stated above, will not be banned. It's still TCG only, and it would never get fully banned. If anything they would only Semi-Limit it. That would be enough to kill it. Pot of Avarice is fine at one. It's not better than Pot of Greed in that Pot of Avarice isn't an instant +1. You have to have 5 monsters in the Graveyard first.

Assuming you mean Thousand-Eyes Restrict and Metamorphosis should be Limited, I will again refer you to my massive list further up in this thread. Same for Change of Heart and Pot of Greed and Call of the Haunted and Giant Trunade and Premature Burial and Chaos Sorcerer and MST and Spirit Reaper. Mirror Force will never go to Semi-Limited. It's an incredibly good card, and it should stay right where it is. I also covered Magical Stone Excavation above, although it wouldn't be that bad for it to be Unlimited.

Finally, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE read this list: List of Reasons for why cards are Currently Banned. If you never look at anything on the Wiki again, at least read that. It tells you what cards are likely to come back. If it is a Very Low chance of coming back, or Never coming back, don't even THINK about putting it on your Banlist Prediction. End of story.

Written by Menace13 (talk • contribs) at 01:21, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

TH3V1P3R's predictions....
Leviair will go to one. bottomless will go to three. forbidden lance will go to two.

matthew.lightbody@talktalk.net (talk • contribs) 01:43, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

Guys levair does NOT deserve a ban or a limit if they wanna kill rabbits just ban rabbit not levair! Some decks simply NEEDS levair.LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 03:27, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

I'm surprised at the number of people that can't read a single page on why a card's banned or that can't understand TCG are extremely unlikely to get banned. (If I remember correctly only one was banned and that was an emergency ban right?)

My thoughts
Banned: Limited: Semi-Limited: Unlimited: 101.162.51.126 (talk) 05:37, January 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * Brionac, Dragon of the Ice Barrier or Future Fusion, an almost guarenteed first turn Shooting Quasar Dragon is completely broken.
 * Trap Dustshoot, although it has kind of strict conditions, it's an instant view hand and remove a monster from their hand. Although saying that, there are quite a few searchers in the meta so looking at your opponents hand isn't as broken as it once was.
 * Archlord Kristya, it isn't that hard to get 4 fairy's in the grave, once it's out it's pretty much game, it lets you add a fairy to your hand like Honest, then when it's destroyed it's top decked to be re-summoned.
 * As much as I hate to think it, Royal Oppression might come back. There are a fair few S/T destruction cards at the moment, but it'd slow to shut down most meta decks and probably make Gadgets, Inzektors and Frognarchs start topping.
 * Trance Archfiend, it's really too good when used with Dark Worlds, a discard and adding something you banished for gates, just too good.
 * Book of Moon, although this would help the Empty Jar OTK the card's been barely used lately. And it's not as amazing as other cards that could be used.
 * Rescue Rabbit may be semi'd but I don't think it's as likely as everyone thinks. The vast majority of Rabbit decks only use 2 at most anyway, the third is just for added consistency. Not to forget how expensive this card is, Konami isn't likely to ruin a good money maker.
 * I'm thinking Solemn Warning might be unlimited because it has quite a large cost and in OCG the only real difference between it and Bottomless Trap Hole is that it negates spells/traps too.

Last time I mentioned Leviair I didn't go into detail about it. It's not an unfair card; it only gets Level 4 and lower monsters. Sure, it's abusable. It's also easy to kill, and nothing it gets will be completely broken. It's fine as it is. BTH is fine at 2. Three would be a problem if we lose Priority like the OCG did. Forbidden Lance is fine at 3. Nobody uses more than 2 anyways, so why bother lowering it to 2? I agree that either Brio or Future Fusion will probably be banned, but it's not like the deck has that many outs once they lose the Quasar. Trap Dustshoot should be fine in my opinion. It's a one for one that has very strict requirements. It's fine at 1. Archlord Kristya is fine. Agents aren't topping at the moment. Nor are Lightsworns. If they begin to top, then I'll change my mind on that one. Royal Oppression could come back. I wouldn't mind it. The problem is that it's a little bit overpowered. It is extremely biased. And Inzektors don't need any more reasons to overpower the meta. Trance Archfiend won't get hit, it's not used much at all yet. Book of Moon should be fine at Semi-Limited, as I said earlier. Empty Jar decks aren't topping. It's not as useful of a card as it once was. Rescue Rabbit at 2 is a great idea. It's almost certain to happen, unless Konami decides to screw us over again. Solemn Warning would be fine at 3, yeah. I think it should stay at two, but it would also be fine at 3. Especially with the S/T hate in today's meta. Also, Solemn Warning>Inzektors. I hope we get 3. Written by Menace13 (talk • contribs) at 12:17, January 10, 2012 (UTC).

TO ALL YOU IGNORANT DUMMYS
IF I post here and make suggestions it is my free will to do so and if I choose to make ideas of unbanning and banning certain cards its because I want to..

I understand this game. If you can't get that through you thick skulls then go to fucking hell.

DO NOT INSULT ME.

It is my free will to make these suggestions.. so stop trolling on me I am sick and tired of you people insulting me stop it.

Master of OZ (talk • contribs) 14:57, January 10, 2012 (UTC)


 * Calm the hell down, Pirate... that kind of comment is what making them removed your from this article. Talk shit like this only making yourself into trouble and maybe mark a ban. So... go out and clear your mind please. -- F  r  e  d  C  a  t  15:21, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

He man they was insulting me look above because they didn't agree with me look for yourself.. I had a right to stand up for myself now you are saying calm down nothing it wrong.. to hell it is... they insulted me and that is wrong.. Master of OZ (talk • contribs) 17:32, January 10, 2012 (UTC)


 * After you joined the discussion this was the first insult i found:"I have ODD don't tell me to give it up or I'll continue.. dummy... so STFU and go with my statements.", sooo you started it, don't run crying now...S4suk3g13 (talk • contribs) 00:13, January 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Ditto. BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 00:19, January 11, 2012 (UTC)

Oppression does not benefit Frognarchs or Inzektors. BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 17:41, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

Royal Oppression will help Inzektors for sure. They can use it to keep themselves safe until they can pull off the combo, and use the first Inzektor Hornet to kill it. Furthermore, Frognarchs don't get hurt by it: Treeborn Frog would just activate again, Ronintoadin can just find another thing to banish, etc. The only problems for Frognarchs are that it stops Swap Frog's Special Summon effect and their defensive monsters (Trag, Fader, etc.). While it doesn't technically HELP either deck, it does harm the opponent while not hindering them, which I think is as good as helping the deck directly. Written by Menace13 (talk • contribs) at 00:38, January 11, 2012 (UTC).

If they do ban Brionic will they replace him with goyo guardian? and leave OZ alone everyone here has a right to express their opinions and besides we are here to predict cards not bash on others. --69.181.60.66 (talk) 00:53, January 11, 2012 (UTC)

If you bothered reading the thread you'd see we weren't 'bashing' on Oz, well aside from Menace13 which I must say was slightly uncalled for with the 'all offence intended' line. All we have done so far is disagree with his choices and if you are going to post here you have to understand that not only will people disagree with your choices but also give reasons why they believe you are wrong. Again Menace13 needs to work on his people skills a little bit but all the reasons he gives are valid reasons and quite honestly Oz needs to be prepared to realize that everything he suggests will be considered and then people will gives their own opinions on them, it's not just his opinion that matters.

Anyway back to the banlist. While Brionac, Dragon of the Ice Barrier could well be banned next ban list make no mistake Goyo Guardian won't be coming back. Not only is he to easy to get out, his effect is still broken and just because they may get rid of another broken card doesn't mean that they'll add back in another.--The FireFALL (talk • contribs) 03:30, January 11, 2012 (UTC)

Banning Brionac is unlikely to bring back Goyo Guardian. It just has too high ATK, and too good of an effect.

@The FireFALL: That comment was aimed at Huguenot.Pirate, not OZ. I don't even know off the top of my head which ideas were his. Ah, that one. One of the many with lots of banned cards being Limited. I don't bash. I just say my mind. My mind on that is that he needs to read the list I have so graciously linked to over and over again. Nobody can make good predictions unless they: If somebody can't realize that Graceful Charity is going to stay banned until the end of time, and that somebody can't realize why this is true, then that somebody is doomed to make bad predictions. End of story. Same for Metamorphosis. Sorry if you don't like me speaking my mind. As for me not having good people skills, I take great offense at that. I pride myself on my abilities to shut down stupid people. Written by Menace13 (talk • contribs) at 03:42, January 11, 2012 (UTC).
 * Know the meta
 * Know the problems in the meta
 * Know the previous problems in the meta that have been fixed
 * And accept that some cards are simply broken beyond repair.

@Menace13, Master of Oz IS Huguenot.Pirate it's just for some reason he's chosen to post under the alias of Master of Oz in this thread, hovering over Oz's name will reveal that he's Pirate and I stand by what I said about your people skills. Giving reasons why their predictions are bad is fine, fair enough. As is listing to the reason why cards are banned, in fact I'm all in favour of that but telling a user of any kind that their ideas suck and that you mean all the offence that comment brings is out of line, people should be free to make whatever predictions they like without having to suffer insults from another user, even if they are terrible ones.--The FireFALL (talk • contribs) 04:15, January 11, 2012 (UTC)

1st of all I am just getting back in to yugioh trying to get into the new game format and all I stopped playing around 2005-2006... 2nd.. I never played by meta before..3rd I don't understand meta... teach me and I will learn.. yell it at me and I will scream and pound you.. insult me while telling me and I will tie you up and torture you... so teach me meta style..okay... 4th I mostly ran mixed decks and I won a lot.. but with this new style "meta" I don't understand... jack about it.... SO PLZ TEACH ME>>>>> Master of OZ (talk • contribs) 04:32, January 11, 2012 (UTC)


 * Ignorance is no excuse. If you want to learn about meta, try doing something yourself and searching for it, be it on the wikia or something like Google. Secondly, I can tell by the way your word choice, be it insults or just explaining yourself, that your either:
 * A. Anywhere from nine to twelve years old, or
 * B. Your older than twelve, but have the "maturity" of a child that age.
 * Either way, the arguing is quite unnecessary, and so are the threats of "pounding" or "torture". If your going to threaten people over the internet, you need to seriously rethink your life.


 * No offense. UndiscoveredSong (talk • contribs) 05:03, January 11, 2012 (UTC)

ok i get it.... but some people here has to be more .... whats the word creative with some of the predictions like change of heart, shard of greed, marshmellon and etc.. i mean come on there are reason why some of the cards are on the list which is why everyone read the link menace gracefully provided twice and not put up something stupid. --69.181.60.66 (talk) 04:55, January 11, 2012 (UTC)

That was a characteristic talk that I was stating about the pounding and the torture.. in other words teach me nicely.. I take offense to any other way. Master of OZ (talk • contribs) 15:51, January 11, 2012 (UTC)


 * Maybe you should stop viewing everything as offensive. Just a suggestion.
 * Also, the best way to learn I found was play on the games, slowly learn what happens when, then use the wiki for more detailed information.101.162.51.126 (talk) 10:06, January 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * Agreed. Also, you kept telling people to "STFU" which is swearing and not particularly nice, and even if that's how you talk, it's not something people want to be told. BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 13:47, January 12, 2012 (UTC)

I would play if there was good places to go that ran tournaments for yugioh around where I live. Plus I don't like reading articles.. it bores me more then anything else. Master of OZ (talk • contribs) 15:54, January 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * Yea, read bored me too, but I was forcing to read in order to understand how the game works. Don't take this as offense; if you do not read enough then how can you understand the game work as well as each mother's card lore? Meta is what making the game end faster than you original planning, like in less than 5 turns of the whole duel, usually. -- F  r  e  d  C  a  t  16:06, January 12, 2012 (UTC)

This might sound odd but isn't Lavalval Chain a bit overpowerd? It works as a HUGE searcher and will be deadly with lightsworns..imagine sending a lightsworn to the grave and/or placing judgment dragon on the top of the deck to be drawn.so i think this should be limited as it searchs any unsearchable monster LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 17:36, January 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * It is but it's not out in the TCG yet and I they'd have to Ban it to hurt it. BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 17:38, January 12, 2012 (UTC)

not powerful as banned.its second effect will be (in most cases)skipping a draw phase but the first is kinda good.here's a combo to get DAD in the very first turn (unlikley that it'll happen) play double summon and summon 2 armageddon knights and dump 2 darks and overlay them for lavalval chain and use the second eff to get DAD on top of deck then use any draw card to draw it and summon (you'll have 2 dark monsters dumped with AK and the detached AK is dark) LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 17:55, January 12, 2012 (UTC)

Double Summon sucks. BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 17:56, January 12, 2012 (UTC)

If u hate double summon that much u can use any card that can get another AK on the field since his effect triggers upon ANY summon LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 18:03, January 12, 2012 (UTC)

"Double Summon" is okay, but I think "Brain Research Lab" is better. While it only works on Psychic Type monsters, unlike "Double Summon" the effect can be used once every one of your turns. Shardsilver (talk • contribs) 18:07, January 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * These are totally different cards. Double Summon is bad because it's a -1 - in Gadgets it has it's uses, but otherwise it's not worth using. Brain Research Lab isn't bad but at the same time it isn't good because it doesn't put in much work. BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 18:52, January 12, 2012 (UTC)

No double summon is not a -1 its a 0 because u lose double summon and u get the monster so no loss LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 18:57, January 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * You already had the monster. It's a -1 because you lose one card and gain no cards. BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 18:58, January 12, 2012 (UTC)

To reiterate BF2's statement, think about it this way: You have two cards in hand, the monster and the double summon. You play Double Summon. -1 hand. You summon the monster. -1 hand, +1 field. The net total is -2 hand, +1 field, causing a net total of -1 card. The action of summoning doesn't effect card advantage, but playing the spell does. This is why Double Summon is generally considered an inferior card, especially when Ultimate Offering is available. 129.1.192.44 (talk) 19:04, January 12, 2012 (UTC)

Ok my hole point is that lavalval chain can be broken in certain decks like the DAD based decks LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 19:13, January 12, 2012 (UTC)

I'll agree Lavalval Chain does come in very handy in some decks, as being able to search out any monster and place it on top of your deck is indeed powerful but it's no more broken than Leviair the Sea Dragon and neither would be affected unless they were banned altogether, as people usually only run one. Plus there's not even any word as to when it will actually see a release outside of the OCG making it pretty much a certainty that it won't get hit at all.--The FireFALL (talk • contribs) 19:35, January 12, 2012 (UTC)

So i think we all agree about rabbit being limited

I want to take a stab at this
Here are my predictions + reasons:

Banned: Brionac, Dragon of the Ice Barrier -The loop Infernities have that brings out Trishula over and over needs this card to pull it off. This card is also essential in a Future Fusion OTK that brings out Shooting Quasar and swings directly twice for game. But I'll address that....

Future Fusion -This may seem controverial, but this card needs to go. A bunch of people with too much time on their hands always seem to find a way FTK/OTK with this card. Plus, I've seen Chaos Dragon deck on DN win the turn they draw this way too many times.

Limited: Rescue Rabbit -Obvious reasons, and most people seem to agree.

Mind Crush -I know a lot of you probably won't agree, and it probably won't go back to 1. But, the way I see it, they were crazy to bring this to 2. It wrecks so much if you draw it with Dustshoot. Plus, Dark Worlds can just say whatever they want with no intention of getting it right just to discard. Though, I'd be okay with them just banning Dustshoot instead.

Dragged Down into the Grave -Makes Dark World decks that much more ridiculous. Plus, lets you see your opponent's hand to combo with Mind Crush.

Inzektor Dragonfly -This card is OP. It's that simple. Her with Hornet is so broken it's not even funny. But what I see being more likely is Dragonfly to 2, Hornet to 2. Or not hitting them at all because they are still new.

Wind-Up Carrier Zenmaity -Hunter loop. Hunter loop is impossible if Zenmaity is at 1. And Hunter on its own isn't that good.

Maxx "C" -Just an all-around messed up card. Forces your opponent to leave weak monsters on the field. Or let's you draw a huge chunk of your deck for just one card. Not just a +1, but a +Lots.

Semi-Limited: Grapha, Dragon Lord of Dark World -Not even gonna lie, this one is all personal opinion. But, wouldn't really be necessary anyways if other DW stuff gets hit.

Marshmallon and/or Swords of Revealing Light -Konami seems to be helping stall/burn decks little by little with each ban list, and I feel this trend will continue.

One Day of Peace -The best thing to happen to Exodia decks in ages. Not very likely, butI want to see this card restricted in some way. The usual strategy for beating an Exoia deck is "when it's finally my turn, I summon a lot of monsters and murder their Life Points". One Day of Peace says no to that.

Unlimited: Ojama Trio -Konami, as mentioned above, seems to have a thing for stall/burn decks, so this might happen.

Anyways, there's my useless predictions. --  Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo   22:14, January 13, 2012 (UTC)


 * I doubt rabbit will be at one. It's not even that great. Laggia is only a mini solemn and 2400 beatstick and if you want to hurt Rabbit decks you need to hurt the XYZ's. It'd be like limiting Six Samurai non-tuners but keeping Shi En unlimited.
 * Maxx "C" isn't broken enough to warrant a limit to be honest. All it really does is stop big pushes or stop massive loops, it helps a lot for drawing into Effect Veiler's or Gorz the Emissary of Darkness to stop OTK's too. They can do what they please but have to keep in mind you're plusing off every single special summon, with this in mind most people end up stopping after 1 summon so it's only a 1 for 1.
 * I wouldn't bet on Grapha being banned, Dark Worlds aren't topping much and the main problem of the deck is Snoww. Don't get me wrong, Grapha is a good card, but Snoww turns it into a much better card making it a 6/40 chance to draw a 2700 atk floater, and we all know how good Dark World draw power is.
 * I'd also like to mention Trishula, Dragon of the Ice Barrier usually works a lot more than beating an exodia deck down through a half deck of negate attack spells/traps/monsters. There isn't much they can do when their only win condition has a piece banished. And I agree with you, One Day of Peace should be at least semi-limited but I think Konami wants people to use different strategy's to win instead of the "Lower opponents LP to 0" one.
 * 202.169.221.112 (talk) 13:56, January 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't see the point of hitting Laggia when Dino Rabbit is the only deck that consistently drops it (well, besides the occasional good Jurrac Deck). I agree that Laggia should go to 1 eventually, but for now, Rabbit needs to go to one. It can be abused in other decks. Gem Knights can exploit the hell out of it, and Gem Knights are Meta in the OCG right now. Verz decks, which will be hitting Japan soon, can exploit it too. Besides Heliotrope, they can throw in monsters like Archfiend Soldier or Vorse Raider. I've even seen a deck that used Rabbit as a way to quickly bring out Archlord Zerato of all things. Not to mention that this card creates absurd consistency by taking 2 cards out of your deck. It's only a matter of time before someone figures out something insane you can do with it. I'm surprised that  Foolish Burial Glow Up Bulb-> Play Rabbit get two monsters-> Mill for Glow Up-> Synch for Trishula hasn't caught on yet.


 * Maxx "C" might be a long shot, but I see it going at least to 2. It just does too much for one card.


 * lol, I said Grapha would go to 2, not be banned. But, you're probably right, they should just hit Snoww.


 * I hate to break it to you, but the FASTEST Exodia decks (as in, the ones that FTK) run no stall cards (unless you count ODoP). Also, dropping Trish doesn't mean you'll hit one of the pieces. If you even get a turn for some reason, they should have 6 cards in hand and can only have 4 pieces maximum. But it's more like they'll have 2-3 pieces. On a side note, my absolute favorite way I've ever beaten an Exodia deck is with Deck Devastation Virus. --  Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo   18:38, January 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * Verz Rabbit won't be a problem until a new level 4 normal verz comes out. There's currently only 1 normal they can actually use (for the decent cards that is), and they'd need more verz's in the deck to use it effectively. Are Gem-Knight decks really meta OCG? They don't seem that great. Their strongest monster has 2800 attack and they have very few effects to destroy monsters that're already on the field. Also, I love how the Evol archetype isn't used at all, even to get out the card that was made for them. I guess they tried too hard to make it not as broken and then thought "too much hassle" then made inzecters.
 * Yeah I meant Grapha semi-limited, I mustn't have read that part over.
 * And yeah, the fastest Exodia decks can FTK/OTK but with them it's either you OTK them yourself or you've probably already lost. 202.169.221.112 (talk) 02:14, January 15, 2012 (UTC)


 * You actually don't need very many Verz Monsters in the main deck. I really only use Verz Mandrago, Verz Castor, Verz Heliolope, and Verz Salamandra. The rest of the monster lineup is Rabbit, Vorse Raider or Archfiend Soldier and maybe a Dark Grepher. And I run a low-ish monster count (16-18) and just search with Duality, Creeping Darkness, or Lavalval Chain. It's pretty good I guess. No telling how effective it will be in the format we actually get the cards.
 * Gem-Knights were meta at a point in the OCG, don't know if they still are. The OCG has a lot of great support for Gems we don't have yet. Plus Gem-Knight Fusion is kinda broke. --  Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo   04:18, January 15, 2012 (UTC)

One more thing: was the stuff you didn't bring up stuff you agreed with me on? --  Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo   04:19, January 15, 2012 (UTC)


 * Yep, I tend to not bring up things I agree with because there's nothing really to discuss about it.
 * Also, a pure Laggia Rabbit deck doesn't really have any cards that don't support getting Laggia out successfully and keeping it there. A Verz Rabbit deck would need other Verz cards that don't really support getting out the summon, only the effects, which kind of blurs the overall aim.202.169.221.112 (talk) 10:37, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * If any Verz card is hit it would be Ophion. BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 13:45, January 15, 2012 (UTC)

It would be great if we get "Dark Strike Fighter" back - at least on one. Konami could even give him an errata, such as: Once per turn ... or If you activate this effect, this card can not attack this turn. (like its anime effect). He also would be a good support for the newly released Dark Flattop. TheGallisMan (talk • contribs) 15:14, January 15, 2012 (UTC)

please tell me how does dark strike fighter inflict 4000 damage cuz if he tributed himself he inflicts only 1400 damage and the only way to inflict 4000 damage is to have the total tributed monsters levels =20 --LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 16:26, January 15, 2012 (UTC)

Attack directly then tribute himself. BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 16:28, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * "Dark Strike Fighter" I think is pretty broken, and should stay banned. Shardsilver (talk • contribs) 16:32, January 15, 2012 (UTC)

that's how? oh thanks BF2 i also think that they should be semi limiting burial from different dimension as we need to restore banished cards--LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 17:49, January 15, 2012 (UTC)

Mezuki and Plaguespreader Zombie. BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 17:50, January 15, 2012 (UTC)

@ LaserGhost: you can use Dimensional Alchemist or Trance Archfiend for that TheGallisMan (talk • contribs) 18:04, January 15, 2012 (UTC)

guys how can i know the results of tournaments?--LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 18:05, January 15, 2012 (UTC)

Gotta love how everyone is talking about Magician of Faith coming back. Clearly it won't unless Dark Hole, Reborn, and Heavy are banned. Those are the main targets to get with it, it's easily searchable with Sangan, and for the cost of a normal summon, considering yugioh these days have Special Summoning like crazy, 1 loss of a normal summon isn't devastating. BLS, I haven't seen it sucessfully summoned in a while against myself, so I'd say it stays at 1. (To many cards to negate it.) Royal Oppresion isn't coming back due to the game being about Special Summons. Ultimate Offering should be at 1 again, due to Gadget XYZ. Some guy said graceful charity at 1, hell no. It's a card that makes you get 3 and lose 3. You can set up combos from the graveyard with it, such as sending for example, Grow-Up Bulb or Plaguespreader and still maintaining hand advantage. Brio can go for all I care, Goyo isn't coming back due to it being a Mind Control monster that let's you have easy access to XYZ and more synchro summmoning, plus it's attack points are to high. Adamtheamazing64 (talk • contribs) 18:30, January 15, 2012 (UTC)

http://www.konami.com/yugioh/blog/ BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 22:21, January 15, 2012 (UTC)

So we all agree that everyone here wants to ban Brionac, dragon of the ice boundary cause after reading all the posts thats the top card on everyones list to get rid of. --69.181.60.66 (talk) 23:48, January 15, 2012 (UTC)


 * Pretty much, yeah. I was gonna suggest it be Trishula getting banned instead. But I noticed Trish is only a huge problem when Brionac is there bouncing it back so you can reuse it. --  Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo   00:23, January 16, 2012 (UTC)


 * For the one with "Dark Strike Fighter", they should let his Anime effect become real life... It was balance enough! But no, they just scrap whole balance crap and make him a lively cannon of doom that loaded up with shit. -- F  r  e  d  C  a  t  00:42, January 16, 2012 (UTC)


 * I agree Fred. I thought they usually made effects less broken in real life. Someone messed up in this case. -- Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo  00:51, January 16, 2012 (UTC)


 * Those idiots... just drink beer and smoke tobacco to make it insanity. If it was me, I would just let the Anime effect pasted there and making Brionac less broken by using it effect once per turn, instead of infinite toss away the hand. -- F  r  e  d  C  a  t


 * A lot of duelists I know feel that Brionac should only be once per turn. And I sorta agree. It would solve so many problems. No Future Fusion OTK, No Infernity loop. But, I really think they'll permaban it instead. -- Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo  01:01, January 16, 2012 (UTC)

yeah, Brionac banned and Dark Strike Fighter (with Anime effect) limited. how awesome would that be !?! by the way, i hope Rai-Oh goes semi-limited and Maxx "C" goes limited. .TheGallisMan (talk • contribs) 08:28, January 16, 2012 (UTC)


 * I forgot about Rai-Oh! In my orignal list I had made I had him going to 1. But 2 should be fair. -- Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo  22:03, January 16, 2012 (UTC)

well, i see this happening:

Rescue rabbit: 2

no its not broken, but having a 1 for laggia card is very annoying and shouldnt be as consistent as it is. but it will really get hurt if xyz surpass synchros.

Brain: who put this up...?

brain is about as likely to come back as Goyo. its game changing. its too broken.

Duality: nah

duality is a 1 for 1 with a restriction for the turn that balances it out. i dont see why someone would WANT to run 3, everybody uses 2.

Warning: 1

they had the same problem with solemn, negation can really kill some decks. maybe not this ban list, but im sure eventually all SOlemns will be at 1.

Trunade for Heavy?

gives Starlight too much power. plus, its a great reason to ban Dustshoot and possibly limit Mind :D

Dustshoot:

like i said, if trunade comes, dustshoot goes. can you imagine? even on second turn. trunade. they draw, dustshoot. stand-by phase, double Mind Crush :P. so i think it would balance out Dark Worlds and stuff like that.

MST: what about it?

its actually not that broken considering everybody realizes now that 3 sucks.

BLS: DUH

we all know hes gone, u do, i do.

Dollka and Laggia: these 2 arent the problem, its the thing that creates them. but then again, i could see somebody playing Offering Dinos couldnt you? maybe put Dollka and Laggia at 2? i mean, people can make combos out of anything

]Magician of Faith: its an idea...

i mean, magician isnt all that great a card. but i can see it coming back. the rerason why? what would you bring back? Reborn? ok, Warning Dark holeme? ok, Starlight Nobleman? ok Bribe

its just not that broken anymore

Tengu: 2, 3 is just insanely broken and way too versitile for 1 card.

Spory: Gone, plants had their time, now its time to say good-bye

Whirlwind/Kalut: i havent really thought about this much. Whirlwind keeps hand presence, and Kalut maintains yuor field presence with ATK boost, but 1 time only. i dont think double whirlwind will ever happen again because of this:

Opening hand: Sirocco Bora Whirlwind Whirlwind Bora/Gale Trunade/Heavy

Trunade/Heavy

Double Whirlwind, summon Sirocco, add double Bora/Bora and Gale, special all, pump bora atk whatever for a FREAK load? MP2 get a Utopia and Armor master, their turn, what now biotch?

if whirlwind gets banned, i can see kalut going to 2. never 3 again tho :(

Sangan: idk...

Konami thought about this:

DaD: 0 Witch of Black Forest: 1 Sangy: 0 but they havent said anything yet. i think its brilliant. throw it in GKs and you can run solidarities now :D.

well those are my thoughts. if im leaving anything out oh well, ill say more later

My predictions
I would keep an identical list to the current one, only I would ban Brionac. I would also throw in Inzektor Hornet and Inzektor Dragonfly to the limited list as these cards are the keys to some very broken and retarded loops over at DN. I've yet to duel them IRL, but I'm through with Inzektors already. It'd be great if they limited Wind-Up Carrier Zenmaity as this would stop the Wind-Up loop.

As for Semi-limiting I would Semi Rescue Rabbit and Master Hyperion, maybe REDMD as well, but I'm not sure RedOjama (talk • contribs) 01:16, January 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * Those are all legit, except Hyperion doesn't need to be restricted. Agents aren't doin' much right now. I'd put Krystia to 1 if anything. -- Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo  03:44, January 19, 2012 (UTC)

After playing two versions of the Inzektors at the Sneakpeak last saturday I've come to the conclusion that no matter what Hornet needs to either go to one or be banned outright. The version with the Dragonfly Hornet engine is broken beyond all belief but the version without Hornet while still a very tough deck was a lot fairer and actually made for a very fun duel. The duel with the Hornet engine though had my opponent destroy my field and keep it that way. Two destructions guaranteed each turn with one card is broken, throw in that if neither dragonfly or centipede go, which is what happened to me, and suddenly the Inzektors have 4 destructions in a turn. Anyway as I said I faced two versions and one didn't have the engine and that to me was the better and more fun deck to play against. Same goes for Wind-Ups with the Hunter loop, which needs to see Hunter be banned not Zen-Maighty as without Hunter the Wind-Ups just become a very heavy defensive deck.--The FireFALL (talk • contribs) 11:01, January 19, 2012 (UTC)

Kristya should be hit even though Agents aren't doing as well. Inzektors are a lot easier to deal with Game 2 but they're still definitely deserving of a hit - Hornet Limited, Dragonfly Semi-Limited would be fair. As for Wind-Ups, Limiting Zenmaighty would do the trick, although Banning Hunter and Semi-Limiting or Limiting Rat would also work, although be less fair as Hunter itself isn't overpowered - it's really all because of Zenmaighty and Rat. BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 13:53, January 19, 2012 (UTC)

The reason I say ban Hunter over Zen-Maity is because my friend duels with Wind-Ups and for the past three days me and him have been doing test duels with different decks versus the loop and also what happens to the deck if you remove either Hunter or Zen-Maity, the result we've found is that if Hunter is not in the deck it's still a formidable deck but instead of it burning your hand instead it makes a pretty good defensive line of Zen-Maitys. Without Zen-Maity on the other hand the deck doesn't fair so well and kind of loses most of it's competitive edge and let's be honest here what we want to do is stop the looping hand loss, not make Wind-Ups a dead archtype in competitive play and the loop can be stopped outright without Hunter, which is why he has to go.--The FireFALL (talk • contribs) 18:24, January 19, 2012 (UTC)

You don't have to Ban either one - just Limit Zenmaighty as that kind of searching power is just too much (especially with three Rats - the ability to make three Zenmaighty and something else is just too much. BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 18:51, January 19, 2012 (UTC)

Again aside from crippling the Wind-Ups ability to properly swarm, limiting Zen-Maity to one won't work. As all they'll do is XYZ into Daigusto Emeral, readd Zen-Maity to deck and start all over again. Which is very doable we found when testing the loop. There are also other ways to do the loop even without Zen-Maity which would also make the limit on him do just about nothing. So really banning Hunter is the only logical option as then all the loop is is spamming the field with defense monsters.--The FireFALL (talk • contribs) 19:12, January 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * They don't get Emeral as easily as they do Zenmaighty and the loop can't be done more than once in a turn without multiple Zenmaighty. A single discard is pretty good but not game-winning like forcing them to discard three cards. BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 19:14, January 19, 2012 (UTC)

I don't see why everyone's saying limit Hornet. Think of it like Frognarchs, they only use one frog at once for a reason. Once they get it into the grave they're good from there unless it gets banished.

A limited Hornet wouldn't make a difference, if it got hit it'd need to be banned. A limited Dragonfly on the other hand would break the combo.

Also, I like the idea of a banned hunter. Because of that card alone the entire archetype strategy changed from swarm to first turn hand destruction.202.169.221.112 (talk) 02:27, January 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * Hornet to one would make a difference, but without outright killing the deck. Zenmaighty should definitely go to one. Banning Hunter would be stupid; he's terrible on his own. It would be like if they decided to hit Mystic Shine Ball to hurt Agents. -- Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo  19:24, January 20, 2012 (UTC)

Limiting MSB actually would be pretty harmful but is rather unfair as it's not the main reason that they're broken. Anyhow, Hornet should be Banned. Even at one, you've got Armageddon Knights, Summoner Monk, Foolish, even Dark Grepher. It's broken as hell. BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 19:27, January 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * I wasn't saying they should hit MSB, I was equating banning Hunter with hitting MSB; it would be outrageous. And I agree Hornet is broken, but banning it means the deck is no longer competitive. Hornet to 1 and Dragonfly to 2 seems more reasonable. -- Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo  19:32, January 20, 2012 (UTC)

I was just pointing out that Limiting MSB would cripple Agents. BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 22:43, January 20, 2012 (UTC)

The reason Wind-Up Hunter should be banned instead of Wind-Up Zenmaighty is because without Hunter they can't destroy the hand, which is pretty much all they're doing at the moment, but they still have a chance at being a decent deck. It's better to kill the root of the problem than kill something used to help the root grow and the rest of the archetype in the process. 202.169.221.112 (talk) 00:35, January 21, 2012 (UTC)

Zenmaighty doesn't need to be Banned, just Limited. Hunter is no big deal on it's own. With one Zenmaighty they get the search power but not the - swarm for 4500 and a Wind-Up off of a Tour Guide. BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 00:52, January 21, 2012 (UTC)

Wind-Up Hunter doesn't need to get banned.you want to break the loop?limit or semi limit him.--LG (talk • contribs) 07:52, January 26, 2012 (UTC)

Ok now i know this would sound crazy but how about unlimiting Tragoedia? i dueled many decks on DN and i can say that NOBODY uses it.also if yr stuck with it only in your hand and your opponent has two monsters in attack position its a useless level 10 monster with 0 ATK that will be killed instantly,gorz will make the nopponent think twice before attacking again.also those other effects of switching sides and level manipulation are not so likley to happen.--LG (talk • contribs) 08:10, January 26, 2012 (UTC)

Predictions

Ok i read enough to make another prediction:
 * Banned:
 * BLS:meta is dominated by lights and darks and even non LIGHT and DARK decks can modify their plays to use this.
 * Brionac:Field clearing hand emptying for infernities no specification good attack and WATER monsters are gaining support from ZEXAL
 * Dark armed dragon:Lethal...Simply lethal effect attack summon conditions.
 * Monster Reborn:no cost gets ANY monster from ANY graveyard.
 * Limited:
 * Royal oppresion: 3 MST and 1 Heavy....won't be sticking around for long and also some decks will make you pay tons of points and the opponent benefits from it too.
 * Mask of darkness:only of oppression was off the banlist then this card would be getting it back (not certainly)
 * Magician of faith:Flip effects are slow only 2 cards will be a big deal with this card (not very certain)
 * Rescue rabbit:Dino rabbits are not the only reason...with natural tune (nobody even uses it) or any tuners it can create lvl 2→10 synchros.Recycled by Levair the Sea Dragon.
 * Semi Limited:
 * Level limit area B:It's the same as gravity bind the difference is it changes battle positions (Morphtronics just got owned! though most of them are lvl 3 or below so no big deal) also it won't affect xyz monsters.
 * Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon:Oh come on....Easy summon and create +1 EVERY turn! high attack don't know if it should be limited.
 * Unlimited:
 * Tragoedia:eh nobody uses it AND it's other effects are not easy. useless if topdecking.Gorz is WAY better.

So that's it --LG (talk • contribs) 17:43, January 26, 2012 (UTC)


 * BLS: Disagree. It can be stopped easily, also, they should just stuff in the decks that can easily drop him.
 * Brionac: Agree. His effect is broken, and causes too many loops.
 * DAD: Disagree. Not many decks drop this consistently anymore.
 * Royal Oppression: Disagree. First of all, they just banned it. If it comes back, it won't be so soon. Also, hell to the no. Too many decks make this card one-sided. Even with 3 MST and Heavy, it will almost always stick around long enough to do major damage.
 * Mask of Darkness: Disagree. Even if Oppression comes back, this won't get hit. Like you yourself said, Flip Effects are too slow.
 * Magician of Faith: Agree. While there are certainly more good cards to get back than you think, it's still slow. And with No Tsukuyomi, it's meh.
 * Rabbit: Agree. Rabbit is broken and anyone who says otherwise obviously does not play competitively.
 * LLAB: I'm iffy on this one. While it has not effect on Xyz monsters, for most people, Xyz monsters aren't their only powerful monsters. If stall decks keep getting helped every format, eventually, they will be broken. The main stall cards were limited for legit reasons.
 * REDMD: Agree. This card is getting more and more broken as more and more Dragon support comes out. It can create OTKs in Heiroglyphs, and it can be dropped for free with Wyvern. If Future Fusion doesn't get banned, this needs to go to one.
 * Tragoedia: DISAGREE: Lot's of people use this. And if it goes to 3, Monarchs become meta again (probably).It's Level manipulation is used constantly and is great for Xyz summons. Taking stuff with it is easy too now that a lot of decks use primarily Level 3-4 monsters. And in a lot of cases, this is much better than Gorz. Gorz forces you to have no field, which means he is unprotected when he's dropped. Also, do the words Super Dreadnought Cannon Express Gustaph Max mean anything to you? -- Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo  00:56, January 27, 2012 (UTC)

guys how to make use of ESPer Star Sparrow? --LG (talk • contribs) 14:21, January 29, 2012 (UTC)

While this is definitely not the correct topic for that questions, with Safe Zone. The only way to get rid of it is with Trishula (as Trunade is gone). BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 14:23, January 29, 2012 (UTC)

Personal Predictions
This list is mostly going to be my own personal reservations mostly so some of my picks will be biased lol.

Banned:

Brionac - Just for the fact that he can clear the field for a finishing move is irritating. decks that can generate hand advantage can catch you opponent in a sticky situation and basically win by returning their whole field. That being said, I think it's ignorant to ban Brio and think that gives room for Goyo to come back. he stays regardless

Future Fusion - if the drawing of one card in the opening hand decides the fate of the game, its too cheap. Painful choice with some limitations, but you also get a nice monster too (possibly). Theres at least 4 otk cheap combos with this.

Dandylion - not terribly broken but something out of the plant engine needs to go and this is the most likely candidate

Dark Armed Dragon - most might disagree and say the summoning conditions are too specific, but id like to think that point moot. DAD is cheap because if he DOES successfully get on the field, its basically gg. Ive seriously got a dude down to 100 LP and he beat me because of this guy. also the summoning conditions arent too hard with all the graveyard manipulation out there. DW can just banish until they get 3, and necro gardna can shape it too

Mind Control - this is a maybe, it can be really cheap for the most subtle reasons. if your opponent has just 1 monster this can clear the field. back in the day, all you could do with an opponents monster was attack and maybe tribute. now with syncros and xyzs, if your monster gets mind controlled, its basically not coming back. all forms of cheap creature control are a bit cheap

Wind-up hunter (wont get hit but still) - this is the only thing making wind ups broke. i think they are balanced until they try destroy your entire hand. most people will point to zenmaighty but when it comes down to it, all he does is swarm. most people will want to keep this man alive and break the other parts but i disagree

Limited:

Witch of the black forest - with DAD on the banlist i think that clears witch up to do he thang. i literally cant think of one cheap thing witch can do with DAD gone. maybe that can bolster my old school Exodia :)

Master Hyperion - too easy to summon, can pop up to 2 cards A TURN. when i see venus come out i almost always expect hyperion the next turn. he should not be that easily accessible. pull him down to 1, maybe 2 and the deck is fair.

Grapha - only thing thats scary in DW. just for the fact he cant really die. if he goes to 1 you can dd crow and be done with him, barring Burial and Trance archfiend. he can also stand to going to 2 as well, but there needs to be some kind of restriction on him

Reborn Tengu (even though he wont) - though most people will say that semi-limiting him is enough, i fancy the idea of Tengu's ugly ass being nothing more than a vanilla beater. i think he at least deserves it lol

Laggia/Dollka - these guys are simply too powerful for how easy they are to get out. no cost for a solemn judgment AND monarch strength is a bit hard to get over. worse of all, dollka gets 2 shots, which leaves almost no room to get around when they're both on the field. they really put decks that dont specialize in brute attack force at a disadvantage, so i think some part of them need to be hit. 2 dolkka or 2 laggias on the field is just plain assholish, even if it can be countered

Semi-Limited

Judgement Dragon - nobody gives a shit about LS but i do lol. and 3 dragons is terrible. i dont want to see my opponent play an a LS card, look at my hand to see i have no veiler and be sweating my ass off. easy to get on the field, and low cost field nukes take the skill out of the game. just my thoughts

Rescue Rabbit (though he wont) - the idea of rabbit is broke so they should limit his consistency. though if they limit the evolsuars this may not be necessary

Mystical Space Typhoon - though most people dont run 3, i think semi-limit sets boundaries for this card. traps are necessary to overcome the cheapness of today and when you give that many options to decks like inzectors and DWs who are already taking out half the field. its not safe to set anymore

Agent of Earth - limiting Hyperion takes some power, semi limit on her takes consistency. not a necessary move, but it will cause Agent decks to have to think more, which i think is healthy for the players.

Thunder King rai oh - TK's not scary but 3 in a deck is too much. if searchers want to search and they figure up the means to knock out one maybe 2 TK's they should not have to endure one on the third turn as well. plus it also stops Specials and has 1900 atk. too much toolbox in one card

Unlimited:

Magical Stone Excavation - not really used much, even in decks that use them. 2 cards is too high of a cost anyway. the only reason this would stay is because no one cares enough to put it at 3 lol

Other Thoughts:

Levair - this card will either get banned or stay at 3. putting it anywhere in between does nothing, unfortunately. which is lame because i like the card, but he gets abused too often

Trap Dushoot- this card may or may not be banned. its not terribly cheap, but when combined with mind crush and dragged down to the grave is assholish. this one make take a consensus to affect it

these are my opinions, i would like to hear feed back, but id prefer it to be civil lol

-AlexLoeher

Well, you were right about some of your picks being biased, lol.
 * Brio and Future Fusion I agree with, they need to go.
 * Dandy doesn't need to go, Lonefire should go if anything gets hit.
 * DAD: Most top decks don't run this, not even Dark Worlds. Gravekeeper's are gonna be good again if DWs get hurt. Against GKs, DAD is just a 2800 beater with tight summoning requirements.
 * Mind Control is only good for Synching/Overlaying. You can't tribute the monster or attack with it. It's actually quite fair at one.
 * Wind-Up Hunter isn't the problem, it's Zenmaity. Zenmaity at 1 means no looping at all. Hunter is bad on its own.
 * Witch of the Black Forest. No, NO, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, a thousand times NOOO! Sangan can already search out a lot of great things. Witch searches almost everything Sangan can search and then some. Even if Sangan got banned, Witch could not, should not come back.
 * Hyperion to 2 should be fine. Earth needs to go to 2 as well. Should be fair.
 * Grapha's fine, it's Snoww and Dragged Down that need to go to one.
 * Reborn Tengu: What would be the point of making a card completely useless? And let's forget for a second that it's TCG exclusive. It going to 2 is already a long shot. 1 isn't happening, ever. Not many people use this anymore, it's no longer a problem.
 * Laggia and Dolkka I agree with, kinda. Evols keep getting better with each pack and Jurracs can be good if you take the time and effort to build them right. Then there's the infamous Dino Rabbit deck.
 * JD wont get hit. LS decks are pretty inconsistent right now. They are barely used and never top. They might actually HELP LS with the next list.
 * Funny you say Rabbit WON'T get hit, when it totally should and will. The damn thing is broken. People don't realize it's true potential because people get it specifically for Dino Rabbit. But there's so much more to it then instant Laggia/Dolkka. I already described above what it can do. It's endlessly usable in Gem-Knights, which are meta in Japan. It doesn't stop you fron using the monsters as Synchro materials, so it can lead to BS Trishula plays with Glow-Up Bulb. And don't don't think people seem to realize that it can get level 1-3 monsters too, which can lead to different combos. It may force you to put Normal monsters in your deck, but if you're an intelligent duelist, you run White Elephant's Gift. Rabbit needs to go to 1. Period.
 * MST to 2, lol. Yeah right. It went to 3 to control all of the BS "necessary" Traps in this game. Traps were getting too powerful, even with stuff like Trunade and Heavy. It's not like anyone uses 3 anyways.
 * Rai-Oh does need to get hit. It's more broken than people realize.
 * I can see Magical Stone going to 3.
 * Leviair won't be so bad if rabbit goes to 1. Leviair banned is overkill. Put it to 1 to stop people from playing multiples.
 * Trap Dustshoot needs to go. It's actually worse than Confiscation in my opinion. Sure it has a restriction, but I'd rather have a card go to my grave than back in my deck. Plus, Confiscation can't really "surprise" your opponent. Plus paying 1000 LP is less than desirable when I'm already paying 1000s for Warnings/Judgment. Don't get me wrong, making your opponent lose a card can be a game changer, but so is accidentally paying too many life points. And I'm not saying Confiscation should come back, it's still broken because of Mind Crush. It and Dustshoot are both ridiculous with Mind Crush. I don't know who's idea it was to have a format with Dustshoot and 2 Mind Crush, but they should be fired. -- Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo  22:17, January 29, 2012 (UTC)

Well like i said, Mind Control is more than just that, you can use effects, and all that is irrelevant to the fact that youre taking a monster OFF your opponent's field. Witch is not cheap, like at all lol. tell me one cheap thing witch can do that Sangan cant. Sangan is actually better right now due to being searched by TGU :P. Grapha is totally the problem actually, Dragged Down just fuels his strength. you obviously didnt get my joke about Tengu *sigh*. also, anything i said probably wouldnt get hit was cards i believed to be TCG exclusives, which i thought Rabbit was. putting Leviar at 1, like said does nothing. pretty sure only rabbit decks run more than 1. but you are right, banning it is not necessary. thanks for the feedback!

-AlexLoeher

Mind Control is good, but not broken. I mean, it's at 1 for a reason. But, it rarely wins games on it's own. It's not really ban-worthy. Witch searches out DAD, all Monarchs, most things Sangan searches, Sangan itself, most Flamvells/Lavals, Thunder King Rai-Oh, The good Blackwings that Sangan can't get (Sirocco, Shura, Bora), Jinzo, Wind-Up Hunter, a lot of Dark Worlds Sangan can't get, Machina Gearframe, most HERO's worth using, OMG the list goes on and on! Grapha is a big problem, but Snoww and Dragged Down add tons of consistency to the deck, like insane amounts. Grapha is only good because he's too easy to search out. Rabbit is not exclusive, therefore it will go to 1. If Rabbit goes to 1, Leviair is not broken, TA-DA! -- Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo  04:53, January 30, 2012 (UTC)


 * Some of these may be meta, some may not even be >tier 3, but Witch of the Black Forest can search for:


 * Beast King Barbaros. (skill drain decks)
 * Dark Armed Dragon. (every deck with dark monsters)
 * Dark Simorgh. (Simorgh decks)
 * Voltanis the Adjudicator, Dark Voltanis. (Counter trap decks)
 * Fabled Dianaira. (Dark World and Fabled decks)
 * Light Pulsar Dragon. (Chaos Dragon decks)
 * A large number of Hieroglyph (aka Holy Marked) monsters. (Holy Marked decks)
 * Worm King, Worm Queen. (Worm Decks)
 * Every Steelswarm card. (Steelswarm decks)
 * Every Monarch card. (Frognarchs and every deck that uses Caius)
 * Interplanetarypurplythorny Dragon. (Kind of a Tragoedia)
 * Rainbow Dragon, Malefic Rainbow Dragon. (Not meta, but Crystal Beast/Malefic decks, and it's strong as hell)
 * Snoww, Unlight of Dark World, Goldd, Wu-Lord of Dark World, Sillva, Warlord of Dark World. (Dark World decks)
 * Sky Scourge Enrise, Sky Scourge Norleras. (Sky Scourge decks)
 * Pretty near all Wind-Ups including Wind-Up Hunter. (Wind-Up decks)
 * Thunder King Rai-Oh. (A very large number of decks)
 * Pretty near all Jurracs. (Jurrac and Laggia decks)
 * Most ninjas including Ninja Grandmaster Hanzo. (Ninja decks)
 * Every T.G. card that's commonly used. (T.G. and other decks)
 * Reborn Tengu. (Plants and a very large number of decks)
 * Those are just the ones I can think of. Feel free to add to the list.

124.179.112.28 (talk) 05:03, January 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * Um, thank you actually. You found a lot I missed or forgot to put. But one thing: No one would ever use Fabled Dianaira for any reason. Fabled Grimro however fits the bill. -- Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo  05:26, January 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * I put Fabled Dianaira there because a negate a spell a turn to discard a DW card would be pretty good. It'd need to be a mainly Fabled deck though, which isn't common. But as I said, they may not even be tier 3 but they're decentish cards. And I completely forgot about Grimro. 124.179.112.28 (talk) 05:33, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

Black Luster Soldier, Brionac, Red-eyes darkness metal dragon possible on the next banlist - rescue rabbit and dark armed dragon (maybe) on the semi-limited thats my guess ? --SINFULL PARADOX (talk • contribs) 05:16, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

For the million time Levair Doesn't need to even hit the list just limit rabbit and were done --LG (talk • contribs) 18:11, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

New Banned List Ideas
Banned:

Monsters:

Sangan: Alot of decks play under1500 atk monsters now.. if Witch is banned so should this card.

Rescue Rabbit: To fast for a cheap card.

Master Hyperion: This card adds too much power to Agent decks.

Spells:

Dark Hole: Too Powerful with no real cost.. they can just activate dark hole then Monster Reborn or Call of the Haunted and Attack.

Heavy Storm: Small price if you have one or two traps on the field but if you don't its powerful.

Traps:

-none

Limited:

Monsters:

Black Luster Soldier- Envoy of the Beginning: Will stay here for time being plus its broken. I think they will wait to see how he plays out against the new monsters.

Spells:

Monster Reborn: All though this card is powerful it can be negated by cards with ease.

Premature Burial: MST, dust and others can stop it... its broken plus you pay 800 LP.

One Day of Peace: This card will definitely help out Exodia decks.

Snatch Steal: This card can be easily destroyed/negated.. plus your opponent gains 1k LP a turn.. the only powerful/iseful thing about this is the Snatch and Sac combo..

Traps:

Call of the Haunted: If they drop Heavy Storm to Banned then this card will be limited.

Reckless Greed: This card actually slows you down for 2 turns, in some decks it can be potent. Exodia Decks etc this card is potent in.

Semi-Limted:

Monsters:

Spirit Reaper: stall tactics.

Kycoo the Ghost Destroyer: 1800 atk remove from play monster with a powerful effect and bad attitude.

Spells:

-none

Traps:

-none

Master of OZ (talk • contribs) 19:55, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

Oz your list is still way out there and by the looks of things you've not been playing the meta much at all.

Sangan - Will stay at one, he helps out the decks that don't have dedicated searchers.

Rescue Rabbit - Will go to 2 or 1 but won't be banned, he's not that broken and a ban should be reserved for cards which quite honestly destroy the meta. So far the rabbit hasn't destroyed it.

Master Hyperion - Without the Agent deck dies and you never remove a card which would have the effect of destroying the deck, limit it if need be but a ban for Hyperion is to much.

Dark Hole and Heavy Storm - Both cards are needed for the meta full stop. The fact that they exist stops a lot of people from either spamming the field or setting a full backrow.

BLS - Quite honestly he could go either way.

Reborn, Call and Premature - There is NO way that Konami would allow all three to be in use at once. If anything I think they're going to remain exactly where they are, as at the moment it feels like the right balance for them.

Snatch Steal - NO JUST NO!!!!!! This card will never be unbanned, it's a game ending card when played right and quite frankly when it first got banned I was glad to see the back of it.

Reckless - Isn't used at all unless it's a Final Countdown deck, good Exodia decks don't need to rely on it and really I don't want to see Final Countdown destroyed because of it. So it will stay at three.

Spirit Reaper - Only became unlimited last ban list and it's not being used at three in any deck anyway so it'd be a pointless limiting.

Kycoo - Yes he's an amazing side deck card but again most people run only two of him anyway so a semi-limit would be pointless.

Oz do me a favor and go to your locals and play some of the meta decks like Wind-Ups, Inzektors and Dino Rabbits, hell even listen to what people there think will go. Then come back and make some more suggestions.--The FireFALL (talk • contribs) 20:33, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

I would go but not run those metas at all I looked into them and not interested in them. And there is no safe/good hobby/card shop in akron oh that runs yugioh tourneys.. the only place is Grandpas and if you go there expect your deck to get stolen. Which to me makes it pointless to go. I worked in a card shop before and nothing got stolen.. but the guy fired me because the customers liked me more then him and to top it all. After he fired me he started to lose business. And then he had to sell it.. Master of OZ (talk • contribs) 21:13, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

With all this rabbit talk I just thought of something. What if Konami decided to Semi-Limit Kabazauls and Sabersaurus? The most consistant Rabbit Laggia decks rely on those two being in threes so if you draw one it isn't the end of the world, so if you force them in twos what'd happen? And to be honest, it'd be quite funny to see a normal monster on the banlist. 124.179.112.28 (talk) 01:22, January 31, 2012 (UTC)

I honestly hope youre joking lol. Whats wrong with just restricting Laggia and Rabbit? even if they did limit those dinos, they still have Twin-headed king rex XD -Alex Loeher


 * Not joking.
 * Rabbit is an insanely limited card, without Laggia and Dolkka its best realistic XYZ is Verz Thanatos or Utopia which aren't all that great. There are verz cards they can XYZ for but those are only useful in a verz deck because they require other verz monsters to activate their effects.
 * The only deck that can get out Laggia so much to require a limit or semi-limit is rabbit, get rid of the ammo and you don't have to destroy a useful gun that can make low tier decks tier 2~.
 * Also, the main reason Sabersaurus and Kabazauls are used are because of their high attack. Because of that they aren't a horrible draw. Sabersaurus can point for point with Thunder King, Kabazauls can point for point with Tengu, which although isn't that great at least uses a tengu.
 * 124.179.112.28 (talk) 03:15, January 31, 2012 (UTC)

I personally think thats ignorant. Ban the actual cards that do things. you can use any vanilla dinos for rescue rabbit. those 2 just happen to have the highest attack. sabersaurus and kabazulus may as well be tokens for all we care, they are only a means to an end. you suggest we ban Alexadnrite dragon as well becasue of his "high attack"? he can be searched by rabbit as well. limiting rescue rabbit is the best thing to do. his limitations are nothing, it summons 2 monsters for 1, and can be revived by leviar for brokenness. laggia is not just used in rabbit decks, he can be summoned quite easily with guiba and hydrgeddon. there is nothing cheap about cards that can be searched by a cheap card. and you are also forgetting the monsters can be synced with, leaving nasty Trish possibilities. Rabbit deserves to be limitted a thousand times before the things he searches out, and im not even for limiting him that much. 2 should be sufficient. but limiting those 2? please. thats like limiting possesed dark soul because he can be searched by TGU


 * Sign your comments.
 * I think those two should be semi limited because they have a choice, either have a lower attack monster that's very easy to run over or risk the chance of drawing into one and making the other a useless card.
 * Why would Alexandrite dragon be banned? Or even semi limited? There are no Xyz cards that act as a mini solemn judgement that uses a dragon as material.
 * Limiting rescue rabbit best thing to do? Oh, I guess you don't realise Rabbit players only NEED one. 3 gold sarc, Leviair, easy rabbit renewals.
 * If you read the post you're commenting to, you'll see I know Laggia can be used in other decks. And I haven't called him a "cheap card" that can be searched by "cheap cards", by the way, Rabbit isn't exactly cheap.
 * I'm not forgetting you can synch for trish with it, but that requires a level one tuner and without your normal summon how are you going to do that? Glow-Up bulb? How will you get it in the grave consistantly? Unknown Synchron? Once per duel so running more than one is just begging for dead draws. Also, trish isn't THAT amazing considering almost every deck in the meta mains 2~ veilers.
 * So what would you want to do? Semi Limit rabbit which will do nothing? Limit Laggia which will completely kill decks like Evols and Jurracs? Semi Limit or Limit Leviair which won't really do much, just maybe make Rabbit decks run Dimensional Alchemist?
 * 124.179.112.28 (talk) 06:19, January 31, 2012 (UTC)

Im surpriseed that no one written deliquent duo on their list but i highly doubt their bring this card back - just wondering. --69.181.60.66 (talk) 03:33, January 31, 2012 (UTC)

@the guy saying they should just restrict the Vanillas: What are you NUTS?! It doesn't matter if it stops Dino Rabbit. THe fact that Rescue Rabbit let's you basicall NORMAL SUMMON AN XYZ MONSTER is extremely broken. Also, Glow-Up and Unknown may be once per duel, but you only need to play Trish ONCE (it's at 1 anyways) to screw your opponent. Saying that Trish isn't a problem because of Effect Veiler is pretty ignorant. You're not going to always have an answer to something. Most times Trish comes out, it's late game the the Veilers have been used up anyways. Rabbit needs to go to 1. Gem-Knight are meta as balls in the OCG and the abuse the crap out of it. -- Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo  06:45, January 31, 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm not seeing the Gem-Knights being meta. They not only require a rabbit in hand/banished with TGU in hand and the gem-knight normals in their deck but they need that fusion card. Sure you can add it to your hand after use but then what? Use it the other one time for a weak as hell fusion monster with sub par effects?
 * And there are plenty of cards that let you use one card to summon an XYZ monster:
 * Tour Guide From the Underworld, rank 3s.
 * The Agent of Creation - Venus, rank 2s. Must have at least 2 normals in deck/hand and pay 1000 LP.
 * Reborn Tengu, rank 4s. Under certain circumstances (bounce then re-summon).
 * Rescue Rabbit, rank 4s. But must have normal monsters in deck.
 * Summoner Monk, rank 4s. Requires a spell card in hand.
 * Jurrac Guaiba, rank 4s. Must destroy an opponents monster by battle.
 * Evoltile Casinerio, rank 4s and 6s. Must destroy an opponents monster by battle.
 * Flamvell Firedog, rank 4s. Must destroy an opponents monster by battle.
 * Hydrogeddon, rank 4s. Must destroy an opponents monster by battle.
 * Karakuri Ninja mdl 919 "Kuick", rank 4s. Must destroy an opponents monster by battle.
 * Giant Germ, rank 2s. Must be destroyed by battle.
 * Zombie Master, rank 4s. Must have 1 monster in hand.
 * Not to mention Ultimate Offering in a Gadget deck. Multiple Rank 4s. Must pay 500 LP per summon. If rabbit is broken because it's a free Utopia, Ultimate Offering is beyond broken because it can make 3 Utopias in one turn for only 3000 LP.


 * Face it, you only think Rabbit is broken because it can get out Laggia, no other reason.124.179.112.28 (talk) 07:48, January 31, 2012 (UTC)

No an instant xyz monster is broken, the fact that gets laggia justs maks it more broken. You can't negate rabbit with veiler because banishing is a cost that is broken, you don't even have the oppotunity to negate him wih veiler. If you respond to rabbit with Trap Hole they call priority, that is also broken. Laggia dosen't let you do anything, you can't activate spells or traps or summon. Laggia indirectly negates monster effects because he stops them arriving on the field which effectivly negates any effect the monster would try and use it. The only thing that works against laggia is flip effects, counter traps or already face monsters like casator. If rabbit is not hit then laggia must be hit.

matthew.lightbody@talktalk.net (talk • contribs) 11:45, January 31, 2012 (UTC)


 * So you're saying that big long list of monsters is going to be hit because instant Xyz monsters are broken? Mainly TGU (if it's made OCG), Summoner Monk, and Zombie Master since those are instant Xyz's and not just one card Xyz's. I could see TGU being hit if it was made OCG but I doubt the others would be.
 * Also, if you're playing Trap Hole you deserve to lose. And you seem to forget you can activate Trap Hole, Bottomless Trap Hole (which banishes both) or Treacherous Trap Hole on the monsters summoned by Rabbit because you can't prio summon and they don't have effects to negate it with. A Solemn Warning would just plain stop Rabbit too although you should probably wait until they bring out Laggia for that.124.179.112.28 (talk) 11:56, January 31, 2012 (UTC)

NO i am saying that unlike the monsters you have listed rabbit cannot be negated by veilwr or stopped by bottomlesstrap hole. Most of the monsters you mention need to destroy somthing in battle which is risky because of mirror force or dimesional prison. summoner monk CAN be negated by veiler plus summoner monk and giant germ can't summon laggia. Simply being able to use bottomless trap hole to stop rabbit isn't good enough, it dosen't justify rabbit not going on the banlist. The card is easily abused to summon laggia and very cards can stop it. msot of the monsters you mentioned are extremly easy to counter whereas rabbit only has the 2 cards you mentioned solemn or bottomless trap hole. You cannot seriously think rabbit being able to dodge effect veiler is fair. Apart from anything else stopping rabbit is 1 thing but then you have the problemn of stopping laggia or sometimes dolkka.

matthew.lightbody@talktalk.net (talk • contribs) 12:39, January 31, 2012 (UTC)


 * So I take it the argument "It isn't just Laggia, being able to get out Utopia with one card is broken" is out the window? My origional argument that started all this was that maybe they should semi Kabazauls and Sabersaurus because running them in threes is how Rabbit decks are so consistant. With both at two they'd need to think if they want consistency over dead draw easily run over monsters.
 * Being able to bottomless the Laggia play wasn't my argument, it was that it can happen because you said, "If you respond to rabbit with Trap Hole they call priority, that is also broken".
 * I'm not denying it's a good card probably deserving of semi-limiting, but it isn't as amazing as everyone's saying. "It needs to be banned!", "It needs to be limited!", it really isn't that amazing.
 * And on a side note, although veiler doesn't work on Rabbit it does work on a card that helps get out rabbit, Leviair the Sea Dragon.
 * Before someone calls me a Rabbit Laggia supporter, I'd like to say I'm not a fan of Rabbit Laggia decks and Auto Pilot decks in general, but other decks (Wind-Ups, Inzecktors and possibly Holy Marked if they perform as expected) deserve to be hit more.
 * 124.179.112.28 (talk) 13:13, January 31, 2012 (UTC)

The reason you would hit rabbit is becasue, if yu limit Sabersaurus and Kabazauls you would need to hit everyother level 4 dinosaur in the game.

matthew.lightbody@talktalk.net (talk • contribs) 13:22, January 31, 2012 (UTC)


 * Level 4 normals, semi limit, and would you seriously run a rabbit deck with 1600 attackers? A big reason Rabbit decks aren't horrid is the attack power of the normals. Even if you draw into Sabersaurus/Kabazauls it isn't the end of the world, they have good attack, they can actually run over/point for point things (Thunder King, Tengu, etc) unlike the others.
 * So if you semi Sabersaurus and Kabazauls in conjunction with other semi limits it'd do a lot more damage than just semi limiting Rabbit where they'll just add another Gold Sarc or Duality or limiting/semi limiting Leviair the Sea Dragon where they'll start adding Dimensional Alchemists.
 * 124.179.112.28 (talk) 13:42, January 31, 2012 (UTC)

Let me put it this way, Hornet and Dragonfly will be hit as their combo is broken, SS and card destruction at once is beyond unfair. Wind-Ups will see either Zen-Maity or Hunter hit as they have a loop, and loops never last long before hitting a ban list. Rabbit will hit the list and go either semi or limited because of his spam potential and when it comes down to it you remove the problem card not the cards around it. Also the difference between Rabbit and all the other cards you listed is one thing. Cost. Whereas all the other cards have some form of cost to them making them a -1 for using their effects. Rabbit has no real cost to it. I'm aware that TGU has no cost either but when she makes it to the OCG she'll finally hit the ban list, that is something else I'm sure of.--The FireFALL (talk • contribs) 13:44, January 31, 2012 (UTC)


 * Technically the cost is to banish it, but I don't think they counted on something like TGU where it's a very easy rank 3 for Leviair. If TGU ever gets to OCG it's getting semi'd without a doubt.
 * Speaking of OCG, anyone know the OCG's replacement for TGU in Rabbit decks? Is it the same as Wind-Up decks where they'll just spam anything they can (Instant Fusion, Gallis the Star Beast, Gilasaurus, etc) or what?
 * 124.179.112.28 (talk) 13:59, January 31, 2012 (UTC)

Just hit the Rabbits. It's easier and gets rid of an overpowered card. BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 13:51, January 31, 2012 (UTC)


 * The problem with that is how would you hit it?
 * Most Rabbit decks only really need one, although it does make it more consistent after they get out the first one Leviair does the rest.124.179.112.28 (talk) 14:04, January 31, 2012 (UTC)

Very easy, a slight limit to rabbit decreases consistency. (do not mention Levair again lol). bringing laggai down to 1 and dollka to at least 2 limits their field presence. sure you may be able to recycle rabbit, but if you limit what hes putting out there its a moot point. You are litterally the only person suggesting the vanilla dinos. if you semi them, people can just run twin headed king rex and uraby at the slight cost of less attack power. which is totally irrelevant because theyre only used to bring out the evolsaurs anyway.

As far as inzectors go, i dont think theyll hit them at all considering how new they are, but wehn they do, they should just ban hornet and leave the rest untouched. hornet was a poorly desgined card anyway, and without him the inzectors are fair, and fun to play. sure they may not be tier 1, but it gives players an excuse to be orginal with their decks, maybe even use rogue cards like inzector hopper. after all, ive never run inzectors but i can almsot bet you i know what every single bu iild contains: 3 centipede, 3 dragonfly, 3 hornets and 1 mantis. too predictable. this game needs more orginality in deck building

And with wind-ups, baning hunter is the absolute fairest thing to do. people will say limit zenmaighty to destroy the loop, but that not only destroys the loop, it cripples wind-ups shot at being a competitve deck.true hunter may not be a good card by itself, butts the only thing making wind ups cheap. take him out and wind ups are balanced. anyone pushing for zenmaighty's limit is just butthurt from seeing so many xyz on one field. take out hunter, and its not that broken to deal with. 107.7.27.190 (talk) 16:36, January 31, 2012 (UTC)

The only way to kill/wound Rabbits without hitting Rabbit is to Ban Laggia/Dolkka. There's no point in doing that - just hit Rabbit. As for Wind-Ups, Hunter is not overpowered in the slightest. Rat needs to be Semi-Limited and Zenmaity needs to be Limited. That way, they can make combos and do some good stuff and even do a bit of hand destruction, but with three Rats and Zenmaity then can still swarm with three Zenmaity and another Xyz (or more). Rat is far too overpowered and Zenmaity IS overpowered as well. No, I am not butthurt - I've used Wind-Ups and Hunter really isn't a problem. The Deck's most powerful cards are Rat, Zenmaity, Shark, and Tour Guide. They can't hit Tour Guide or Shark (the deck isn't as overpowered as Tele-DAD). BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 17:32, January 31, 2012 (UTC)

Hunter should be banned for precisely the reason you stated, because he isn't that good. Because if you hit the other parts, the decks loses a lot of it's luster. And please, tell me the point of limiting Zenmaity AND semi-ing Rat? if Znemaity is hit, there will be no more looping so you pointing at Rat is quite asinine. At most he will be able to retrieve a Zenmaines and Zenmaity with that plan. I'm sure you just want Wind-Ups nuked in general. A field of 1500 beaters is sooo scary, yep Wind-Ups are broke as hell.

Let me explain it to you like this: Wind-Ups are like a snake, and Hunter is the venom. Take him out, and the snake can still defend himself, but has nothing to be scared of. Take out Zenmaighty, then not only is the loop shot, but playing as Wind-Ups becomes harder. No one will run Hunter if Zenmaity is at 1 anyway. Cmon people, think. 71.195.131.220 (talk) 20:25, January 31, 2012 (UTC)
 * That's incorrect. Hunter loop is devastating but the Deck has a number of other ways to do stuff. Rat and Zenmaity are the movers and shakers (as well as Shark and Magician). BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 22:29, January 31, 2012 (UTC)
 * Youre partly right. It DOES have a way to do things but not if we get all banhappy on it. Banning hunter elminates the CHEAPNESS. LimitingZenmaighty limits the COMPETITIVENESS. If there is no hand loop, then Wind-ups have no trick that other players can look at and say "thats so broke, that takes no skill, that deck is basically an autopilot, blah blah blah" If youre scared of wind-ups then side Max-c. we shouldnt just ban and limit all the good cards, we only need to do that for cards that give players an UNFAIR advantage. swarming is not unfair. or should we ban all six sam and blackwing cards as well? six sams can get at least 3 2100 beaters out. blackwings get 3-4 1700 cards and some of them get piercing. swarming is not dangerous to the meta. 1 turn hand depletions are. Ban hunter, the only card that has anything to do with that 76.107.17.113 (talk) 22:54, January 31, 2012 (UTC)
 * A two card combo with Magician and Shark that results a Rank 3/4/5 at no cost? A three card combo with two Sharks/Shark and Factory + Magician that results in a Rank 4 and a Rank 3/4/5 at no cost? BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 23:22, January 31, 2012 (UTC)

I'm pretty surprised that people here can't realize that nither Levair the Sea Dragon nor Laggia\Dolkka needs a hit.Its Rabbit people! rabbit is pretty splashable in verz,E-heros,Ojamas and dino rabbits. --LG (talk • contribs) 18:26, January 31, 2012 (UTC)

With the Zen loop I'm still of the thinking it could go either way, either Maity or Hunter will see either a limit or a ban as there are legitimate claims for either one to go, knowing our luck Konami might just put both of them on the limited list.

As for it being to early to ban Inzektors, the first thing you have to realize, as stated earlier in this thread, is that by the time the ban list comes around they'll have been in the OCG for four months and Galactic Overlord will also be out over there. The Inzektors will see a hit. Hornet will no doubt either go limited or banned, Dragonfly could see it semi or limited because at the end of the day Inzektors can still be a tier one deck without Hornet or Dragonfly, you just have to be a little bit more creative then using a broken combo.--The FireFALL (talk • contribs) 18:27, January 31, 2012 (UTC)

@At the anon who can't see Gems being meta: That's because not only does the OCG have more support for them, you also obviously have never played against a meta build on DN. The fusions' effects are definitely not sub-par. I don't want Rabbit banned just because of Laggia, and don't you dare try and act like you understand someone else's thoughts and motives. That's a very ignorant thing to do. And Instant Utopia IS a problem. He's a beatstick that can be a pain to get rid of. Instant Lavalval Chain or Diagusto Emeral can be broken too, but you probably don't know what those do because you seem to have no knowledge whatsoever about anything OCG. And Rabbit thins the deck by TWO cards! That's better than most cards that deck thin that are limited. TGU doesn't even thin the deck by two. Saying that they should Semi Sabersaurus and Kabazauls is pretty ignorant because then they'd have to semi any vanilla with at least 1700, because you know eventually there will be another XYZ that takes 2 Insert Type Here Level 4 monsters. btw, a lot of those things you listed need to see a hit eventually anyways, especially Guaiba. You sound really ignorant when you talk about the metagame and perhaps you need to go play a few deuls on DN before you try to make ban list predictions if you can't see what cards are truly a problem. Do you remember Mass Driver? So many FTKs were based around it. They never seemed to do anything about it. They'd just hit the other components of the FTKs, not realizing Mass Driver was the real problem. Rabbit is kinda like Mass Driver: if they leave it alone and just hit other stuff in Dino Rabbit, eventually more abusable abusable combos will be created with it. It needs to go to 1! You suggest that I only want Rabbit hit because I hate Laggia. Well, I'm starting to suspect you don't want it to get hit because you probably spent hundreds on a playset and you don't want to lose money. People round here do it all the time. They shell out big money for some broken card, say it won't get hit, then feel real salty when it does.
 * >Inb4 Rabbit doesn't FTK like Mass Driver
 * >Inb4 "Herp derp i dint buy Rabbits I juss don think it relly broken"
 * >Inb4 "I still don't see Gem Knights being meta because I still lack an understanding of how the OCG works"
 * >Inb4 "tl;dr"

-- <font color="#FFA500">Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo  23:22, January 31, 2012 (UTC)


 * I play on DN, I've never seen rabbit in a deck other than Laggia.
 * The Gem-Knight fusions effects are without a doubt sub par, what part of "discard 1 gem-knight to destroy 1 face up card" screams broken? What part of "tribute one gem-knight to gain its attack" screams broken? Their effects and attack power just aren't good enough.
 * If you think an instant Utopia is a problem, then feel free to look at the list of cards I mentioned that are either one card Xyz's or instant Xyz's.
 * You missed me saying "Before someone calls me a Rabbit Laggia supporter, I'd like to say I'm not a fan of Rabbit Laggia decks and Auto Pilot decks in general, but other decks (Wind-Ups, Inzecktors and possibly Holy Marked if they perform as expected) deserve to be hit more."
 * Feel free to be honest here, have you played a Rabbit deck? They aren't that hard unless they get out Laggia first turn, and even then you can easily win as long as you aren't playing something like Monarchs or Inzecktors which need their normal summons to go through. Open up with maybe a Stardust Dragon and their only real answer is Dimensional Prison.
 * It's extremely sad that entire archetypes are going to crumble because of a card that isn't really related to them. Evols because of Rabbit, they'll lose the Xyz card that was made for them, without it they aren't even slightly playable. Jurracs because of Laggia, they're going to lose their best card (Jurrac Guaiba) just because it can get out Laggia, without Guaiba they're dead, it was their best card even when they only synchroed.
 * >Inb4 you insult someone some more based on pretty much nothing.
 * 124.179.112.28 (talk) 02:50, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to respond to every single sentence you wrote: >Inb4 you keep getting more and more butthurt over your friend Rescue Rabbit. -- <font color="#FFA500">Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo  05:28, February 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * If you've never seen Rabbit in a deck other than Laggia, you either only go on once and a while, or you only play noobs who love auto-run decks.
 * Why do effects have to be broken to make the deck meta? It's a consistent deck that has quite a few tricks up its sleeve. That fact that you think a deck has to be broken to be good shows quite a bit of ignorance.
 * Frankly, you're list was bullocks. All of those things had fair restrictions. They either had to kill something or die themselves. In the case of Summoner Monk, he forces you to ditch a Spell card that could be useful later on, not to mention he's at 2. In the case of TGU, he can be easily Veiler'd or Fiendish Chained. Plus, TGU, doesn't allow you to play a MAFUKKEN SOLEMN JUDGMENT WITH ATK POINTS! Instant Utopia can be a huge problem too. He runs over almost everything, and the stuff that's stronger can't get a hit on him for 2 attacks, giving you time to set up a counter strategy.
 * I accused you of being a closet Laggia supporter because you accused me of secretly wanted Rabbit to get hit just to stop Laggia (which is obviously not true). Funny how that works, isn't it?
 * I've played plenty of Rabbit decks, and they're obnoxious. If they go first, they pretty much won, because they'll play Laggia and set 4 backrows.
 * Entire archetypes dying? I'm not trying to be blatantly offensive, but that statement was pretty dumb. Evols don't use Rabbit, I don't know why you think they do. Evols are fully playable with their own support cards, and even do quite well. Jurracs will be fine too because Guaiba isn't going to get hit.
 * Most people here think Rabbit is going to 1. I don't know if you've been in one of these Yu-Gi-Oh! Wikia Banlist prediction forums before, but when the majority of people here say something is going to happen, it's true 99% of the time. Not to mention if a deck tops a YCS, it's doomed to be ripped apart by the banlist. These are facts.


 * Oh no, I constantly play or view duels there but not once have I seen a Rabbit deck in rated that doesn't aim for Laggia.
 * Because to be meta you'd at least need DECENT effects, not discard one specific type of monster to destroy a face up card. And what tricks up their sleeve? They can destroy one face up, attack twice, stop the opponent from activating spells/traps/effects until after the damage step, bounce S/T when it leaves the field (?) OR gain attack by tributing another monster. Up to two to three times without Pot of Avarice.
 * How was my list bull? They were all cards that although were riskier than rabbit to get out an Xyz, they could all do it with one card or instantly. And you even restated that the main reason you hate rabbit is because of Laggia. Utopia is nothing.
 * I was accusing you of hating rabbit due to laggia because you're clearly acting that way. Every decentish point you have is "Oh but laggia _____".
 * Oh boy, they used 5 of their cards, now you should use 5 of yours to counter theirs. There's a fun one called Mystical Space Typhoon, Dimensional Prison, Heavy Storm. Laggia can only negate once, if they have Solemn Judgment that's one more negate.
 * Evol's don't use Rabbit? I'm not even trying to be blatantly offensive but that statement was dumb. Yes, entire archetypes will die if rabbit is hit. What cards will probably get hit because of Rabbit Laggia? Rescue Rabbit, Evolzar Laggia, Leviair the Sea Dragon. What card was made for Evols? Laggia. What do Evols need to even be slightly competative? Laggia. They're a horrible archetype without that slight boost. And about Guaiba, a quote from you, "btw, a lot of those things you listed need to see a hit eventually anyways, especially Guaiba". If guaiba gets hit Jurracs die, they have no other spam card except maybe Jurrac Aeolo with Rekindling.
 * >Holy shit this text isn't green, you aren't on 4chan anymore.
 * 124.179.112.28 (talk) 14:50, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

You know I'm about to lose my goddamn temper on you! You're an ignorant duelist who doesn't understand a problem with the metagame when he sees it. I've seen plenty of deck use Rabbit but not go for Laggia. Gem Knights' effects are at least decent, and the main thing they do is spam Fusion monsters. Learn how the deck works before you argue with me on whether it's good or not. Your list is bull because only two of those monsters actually get an instant XYZ, instant being the damn keyword. I keep bringing up Laggia because he IS the main thing dropped with Rabbit, and he is a big problem. It's not as simple as using 5 of your cards to counter their 5. They probably have Solemn Warning, Forbidden Lance, Solemn Judgment, D Prison, etc in addition to them probably having already played Trap Dustshoot. It's almost never that simple. Evol decks do not use Rabbit and I don't know why you continue to insist they do. They have plenty of support and are definitely not terrible. You don't know anything about whats good and what isn't. You probably just netdeck whatever's popular and autorun the shit out of it for wins. Also, Guaiba does need to see a hit eventually, but I guess you wouldn't understand because a good Jurrac deck is obviously a foreign concept to you. You know, I played a Dino Rabbit player last night, who plays the deck in real life. He, like so many Dino Rabbit players I've come across, agrees that Rabbit needs to go to one. Interesting.
 * >mfw you think I care if the text is green or not.

-- <font color="#FFA500">Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo  19:32, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

Ahahaha oh wow, you're still too thick to understand what I'm saying with Rabbit and Evols. Since when have I said they used Rabbit? I said they'd be hurt because of rabbit being hit, because it's not the only thing that'll be hit because of those decks, Laggia will be hit. If you don't realise Laggia was made for Evols and is their key rank 4. The decks I play/like playing: Chaos, Frog Monarch, Fabled, sometimes Malefic, Steelswarm, Verz. Only one of those is meta, Frognarchs are close but not quite. And oh yes, they happened to draw into a Rabbit (3), A lance (2-3), Judgment (1), Warning (2), d prison (2-3) on their first turn. That sounsd very likely. And even against a Number 17: Leviathan Dragon from a TGU you'd have lost unless you sniped the judgement and heavy'd. Yes Jurracs were ok, they had some swarm power but not much, but they were mainly Beatdown which fails in this format as everything usually dies within two turns. If the opponent didn't only have strong monsters, they could easily Black Rose or get out multiple Jurrac Giganoto and other level 7s. But then came along Laggia which is going to get the key card in Jurracs hit. And I never said Rabbit shouldn't be hit, just maybe not as badly as everyone thinks. 58.169.180.226 (talk) 03:18, February 2, 2012 (UTC)

Are..are...are you even the same guy?! The IP address is different! If you are the same guy, you just contradicted everything you said before. How in the world would Evols be hurt by Rabbit being hit if they don't run Rabbit?! You are making no sense! You yourself JUST SAID Evols don't use Rabbit What sort of connection does Rabbit being hit have to Evol decks? They'll be fine still because Laggia will more than likely stay at 3. You certainly implied that Rabbit shouldn't be hit, saying they should hit the Vanillas instead, which might have been a joke, but you never stated whether or not it was a joke. YOU were the one who was unclear about what he was saying. I'm not the only one who thought you were saying Rabbit shouldn't get hit. And about Number 17 with the same back rows being just as big of a problem, that's exactly why TGU is getting hit when Japan gets it. But regardless, once Rabbit gets hit, no one's going to use that deck anyways. People give up on decks when the get hit for some reason. Most decks that have been hit recently are still good (X-Sabers, Infernities, Six Sams). The only one that's been hit like crazy that people still use is Plants. And Jurracs will still be good if for some reason Laggia goes to 2 or 1. They'll still have at least 1, plus they'll have Dolkka and other Rank 4's. I just feel that Guaiba generates ridiculous advantage and needs to go to 2 at some point. Most builds of Jurracs run Shrink/Enemy Controller/Book of Moon/Forbidden Lance/Swords of Concealing Light to have Guaiba kill fricken everything. And it's easily searched by Fossil Dig/Jurrac Velo anyways, so I don't see the problem with dropping it to 2.

Now I'm sorry I got so upset with you, but you started being stubborn, and the thing that irked me the most was you dismissing Gem Knights as bad not realizing the OCG exclusive support they have makes them uber consistent. Most of the current DT archetypes are crap in the TCG but are much better in the OCG. Can we just agree to disagree on the Dino Rabbit issue? -- <font color="#FFA500">Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo  03:38, February 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * I just saw below what you meant about Rabbit hurting Evols. You think because of Dino Rabbit, they'll not only hit Rabbit, but they'll hit Laggia too. And honestly, you're probably right. Konami LOOOOOOOVES to overkill decks with the banlist. But I think Evols and Jurracs will function fine with less Laggias. They'll just have to get a little more creative with their Extra Decks. I'm sorry I didn't see the part where you talked about what you meant, I only skim most of the stuff below this area. If I would have seen that, most of this petty argument could have been avoided. -- <font color="#FFA500">Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo  03:45, February 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * I have a dynamic IP so it changes from time to time, should probably make a wiki account but cbf.
 * And as I've said before, I do agree rabbit should get hit but quite a lot of what's been suggested is plain overkill and/or wont work. Especially considering one of the main problem cards (Leviair) has barely been talked about.
 * 58.169.180.226 (talk) 06:25, February 2, 2012 (UTC)

Let's Try a Reasonable List Prediction!!

 * One for one: as sad as I would be as an infernity player, it would be an easy way to hit plants.  the card is very powerful.  HOWEVER, if dandy goes, one for one won't.


 * dandylion: probably the best way to hit plants since it is the only actual broken card in the deck.  the fact that the effect is reuasable as well as the fact that it happens WHENEVER the card goes to the grave...it's just too good.


 * Trap dustshoot: it might stick around for one more list since it JUST came back, but it could also go.  It doesn't need to necessarily, but i feel it might.


 * Sangan: assuming tourguide will go untouched since Japan doesn't have it, this needs to go.

Limited -


 * Rescue Rabbit: Learn from rescue cat.  the card is too good.


 * Wind-up Zenmaighty: let's stop this loop right off the bat, for once.


 * cyber jar: because they can.  and because it would be funny.  I'm only half-serious, but still serious enough to put it here.


 * Dark Grepher: part of a two part hit on inzektors.  also with the influx of chaos support and necro gaurdna at 2, it is a reasonable hit.

Semi-ed -


 * Pot of Duality: maybe.  not a huge or pressing need, but it's possible.


 * Inzektor Dragonfly: i know, everybody is predicting it, but it makes sense.  3 is too many, 1 is too few, 2 is juuuusssst right.


 * lumina: Lightsworns are unimportant in tournament play, konami might decide to give them one more boost.  as long as charge stays at one and honest stays at one this should be fine.


 * dark bribe: in the right hands, a deadly weapon.  as a counter trap it's too powerful.  sure the opponent draws a card but if it protects your combo that gets you game, who really cares.

also, i'd like to address certain things I have seen that make no sense. Monster Reborn will not get hit. Yes, it is overpowered and free. but it also keeps the game interesting and offers an out after your opponent had a monster of a turn. as someone else said, it's here for the same reason dark hole is.

Infernities have no reason to get hit. most people cannot play them well consistently, most people will not be able to pull off the infinite trish loop, and when is the last time you saw them top a major tournament? besides, Japan doesn't have barriers, so they dont even know infernities exist. that being said, LAUNCHER CAN NOT GO TO TWO. as someone who runs the deck let me just say, you don't want that.

Magician of Faith will NEVER come back. Monster Reborn, Foolish Burial, One for One, Infernity Launcher, pick basically ANY spell card on the limited list...you don't want to see those again.

If Chaos Emperor Dragon comes back, I quit. that card is stupid. you might as well bring back yata and let the whole annoying combo happen. There is NO reason for those to ever come back.

Just some thoughts. - JP

You're predictions are pretty good and make more sense than most of the Anons putting predictions here. But, I have a couple things to say. First off, I'd like to see them ban Lonefire instead of Dandy, and One For One doesn't need to go (I too am an Infernity player, and that would break my heart). While on that subject, Japan does have Barrier. They've had it for a few months. It's common too for some reason. Infernities don't need to get hit at all like you said. It takes skill to run them. I'd like to think of myself as a skilled Infernity player, after all of the meta deck killing I've done with them this format (and I don't even run the stupid loop). They could easily top if people put in effort, but I'm getting off topic. Dark Grepher doesn't need to get hit either. Hornet is the main problem. Dark Grepher to 1 would pain me even more than One For One getting banned. Grepher helps make other DARK decks consistent enough to at least hold their own, and it would be unfair to hurt those decks. Sangan. I was gonna tell you you were wrong, but it might need to go. It searches 95% of the monsters in most decks nowadays. It's getting more and more broken each format. That's pretty much all of my problems with your list. Otherwise it's solid. Also, PLEASE REMEMBER TO PUT NEW TEXT UNDER OLD TEXT! Don't just go posting randomly on the top of a forum. -- <font color="#FFA500">Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo  02:44, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

I'm wondering why you suggested Dark Grepher instead of Armageddon Knight, surely if Grepher is going to get hit Armageddon Knight would get hit first since it has no cost. Sure it can send a useful card to the grave, but the majority of the time you'd prefer cards in your hand. If not to make your opponent think you have a gorz, to have more options for later turns. And I highly doubt Pot of Duality will be hit, it's a 1 for 1(out of three cards) that doesn't let you special summon that turn. Not to mention most people only run 2 so semi limiting it would be nearly pointless. 124.179.112.28 (talk) 03:00, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

Hmm, wasn't aware they had barrier now, good that means the video games will have it as well. Grepher is more popular to run because it lets you drain those bad hands. as for my use of it, I run one grepher one armageddon so i'd be fine lol. Lonefire getting hit would only slow the deck a little, dandy going away would stop it for the most part, but it's konami so who knows. duality isnt really needed but i feel like it could happen just because so many cards like it get hit in some way. sorry about the misplaced text, will keep it in mind for the future.

Lonefire is used in other Plant decks besides Synchrocentric, like Gigavise. I know Gigavise isn't doint much right now, but it's still good and could come back. I don't know about you, but Lonefire ->Instant Tytannial is not okay with me! Danylion actually probably needs to get banned too, but I'd rather they try hitting Lonefire first to see if that's enough. It'd be a shame to overkill the deck like they seem to do a lot. -- <font color="#FFA500">Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo  04:38, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

Dandy is just more splashable, like I tested an idea of the plant engine in lightsworns that worked out pretty well but didnt run lonefire, and zombie plants dont need to run lonefire. dandy is a good fit for almost any deck that uses the graveyard, and since both cards really have the same weaknesses (warning, debunk, etc) i feel dandy is more deserving.

It's true that Dandylion is splashable, but Lonefire gives Plant decks a lot more speed. -- <font color="#FFA500">Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo  05:32, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

For me it just comes down to lonefire ONLY giving speed. you don't actually need it in the deck to do stupid things with the deck. Dandy is also more accessible in the deck than lonefire since you can foolish into him and get his effect. you can also combo dandy with one for one to make an easy formula. there's just too much you can do with dandy, whereas lonefire is usually just a speed up card and not actually necessary. hit lonefire and plants will have no trouble finding a card to fill its spot.

This Might sound weird
OK how about limiting or semi'ng Fabled Raven? Dark world decks abuse him hard.on my second match with my dark world deck, I created an FTK with this card as the core.This means 1 of 2 things:My deck is super fast and well built,OR Fabled raven is a super broken card.You can discard infinite amounts of dark worlds.Some people will say Limit garpha.and i say NO this doesn't solve the problem.You will probably need only 1 garpha to win so how about this? --LG (talk • contribs) 08:23, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

With Trance Archfiend around, Raven no longer is necessary. As for Plants, the best card is by far Glow-Up Bulb. But they probably won't hit Plants - the list is based on the OCG (usually) where Plants aren't such a big deal as they're still in the Junk/Doppel Plant era. And if they do, Dandy or Bulb should be hit. Lonefire is just good support, and Spore is good but not broken in itself. BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 13:54, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

Raven is also usually only run at one if at all, so limiting it wouldn't do anything.

To Respond to you BF2:Trance archfiend is actually a downgraded version of Raven.You see Trance only discards 1 per tern while raven discards infinite amounts.releasing Trance might actually MEAN that Raven's gonna be hit.also trance's other ability is probably to make him useful and make people use him over raven as raven can be a WAY bigger beatstick.--LG (talk • contribs) 14:30, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

How can you even compare Trance Archfiend to Fabled Raven? That makes no sense. One's a Tuner that can discard any number of cards in your hand to increase its level by said number, good with Beiige, Vanguard of Dark World or Sillva/Goldd. Commonly used to make Dark Highlander since DW don't synchro often. The other's an extremely good card when used with Dark Worlds, not only can it discard one with its effect to gain 500 attack, but when it's destroyed you can regain a monster that was banished with The Gates of Dark World or an opponents card. 124.179.112.28 (talk) 14:57, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

I said it Before and I'll Say it Again.Raven Is BETTER than Trance.Raven generates infinite Dark world effects per turn while trance only generates 1.Trance gets 1 Banished Monster while Raven is a Tuner and can help xyz sometimes.--LG (talk • contribs) 15:19, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

If you aren't using The Gates of Dark World reasonably often and/or are using DW as a synchro/xyz deck I think you're doing it wrong.124.179.112.28 (talk) 15:28, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

Come on DWs are about being discarded not returned when banished.Im not saying that Trance is bad it is pretty good but Raven is sometimes just better.--LG (talk • contribs) 15:39, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

You normally want a replacement card for your discard. Gates, Dragged down into the Grave and Dark World Dealings all do that. And since Trance Archfiend is only once per turn it stops you from discarding your entire hand which raven sometimes tempts you into doing.124.179.112.28 (talk) 15:45, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

I never compared Raven to Archfiend. They have two different purposes. Raven adds speed - Trance adds consistency. Consistency is more important in a combo Deck like Dark Worlds. As for the Rabbit guy, the Evols as whole do not use Rabbit. There are great builds that focus on "evolving" Evoldo into Evolsaur. BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 15:53, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

Never once did I state they did use rabbit. I stated that they would be effected (pretty near killed) because of rabbit. Rabbit will probably get laggia hit badly, that will drastically effect Evols as they really don't have many decent cards. All they can really do is Evoltile Casinerio into Evolzar Solda, Evolzar Laggia or Evolzar Dolkka. They can go for normal Xyz's but those are the specific ones made for their archetype. Without Laggia what will they go for? Dolkka? Solda and get dead draws? 58.169.180.226 (talk) 16:03, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

I'm sure you mean affected, not effected. As for the archetype, no it will not be hurt by the loss of Rabbit. The Dragons will see less use but it will open the way for people who want to use Evol based builds. They have Najasho and the Evolution spell, and it actually works. Soldda sucks. BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 16:04, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah sorry, I always screw up affected and effected. And it wasn't the loss of rabbit, it's what will be hit due to rabbit. You can definitely tell Laggia is going to be at the very least semi'd, more than likely will be limited, which will in turn hurt Evols. And yes they do have a few combos but they're all so situational that I can't really see them even being tier 2 until they get a reptile search card similar to Fossil Dig.58.169.180.226 (talk) 03:24, February 2, 2012 (UTC)

A new List
Ok heres My newest List:

BANNED
 * Brionac:Too much loops clears the field.
 * Dandylion:Plants MUST get a hit this is the worst card in it
 * Trap Dustshoot:Set it on the first turn or whenever the opponent has 3 or more cards and look at their strategy for the turn then kill a monster.

LIMITED
 * Rescue Rabbit:instant +1 Gets an Evolzar Laggia making your opponent's plays threatned.Dino rabbits are the Top Deck of that last tournament.Abused with Levair and Gold Sarcophagus.
 * Master Hyperion:Easy summon High attack and pops 2 cards each turn.Tell me one thing that weakens Agents other than this.
 * Wind-Up Hunter:The wind-up loop is over powered and hitting Zenmaity will destroy wind-ups chance to be really competitive.
 * Inzektor Hornet:Inzektors are broken especially this one.
 * Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon:More and More Dragons are coming and this card is becoming more and more broken.

Semi Limited
 * Debris Dragon:eh..with Dandy gone this guy is not a very big deal.
 * Level Limit Area B:Xyz are unaffected and Gravity Bind is unlimited so why not?
 * The Agent of Creation - Venus:Must..Harm...Agents. This card is good.

Unlimited
 * Chain Strike:Chain burn is not used anymore
 * Necro Gardna:Nobody uses it.only good in Lightsworns.

--LG (talk • contribs) 16:35, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

By worst card in Plants do you mean that Dandylion is the weakest or strongest card? Hunter doesn't deserve a hit - Zenmaity and Rat are really overpowered, you guys just haven't seen good builds. Chain Strike should stay at two, people still use it and it's an obnoxious deck. REDMD does not need to be Limited until the Deck becomes Tier 1 and it's not even meta yet. BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 17:44, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

Ok, my thoughts on the latest stuff. None of the DW or Plant stuff will be touched and I'm almost certain of it. While both are great decks they're also pretty balanced and you only start putting stuff on the Banlist if it's having a large effect on the game. Neither DWs nor Plants are topping much at all in the OCG and that is where it counts.

If anything I can see three cards which almost every deck is now running in some form hitting the list, just because Konami doesn't like it when a card is spammed to all decks. These cards are Maxx "c", Effect Veiler and Fiendish Chain. While I can't see a straight out ban for any of these cards I can see them either being Semi'ed or limited.--The FireFALL (talk • contribs) 18:36, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

The way I see it with Hornet and Hunter, you either ban them or you semi limit/limit other cards. Hornet has Armageddon Knight, Dark Grepher, which can get it to the grave even if it's at one. The only time it'd have a problem is if Hornet's D.D. Crow'd and even then, Inzektors make easy rank 3s. Hunter has Wind-Up Zenmaighty which can special summon any him from the deck. Although a ban of both would be great, I think they're both going to be limited and the cards that get them out semi'd or lower. And although the basis for Maxx "C", Veiler and Fiendish Chain being hit may be good, they're all kind of needed to slow the meta down don't you think? Worst case scenario, imagine a format with no Veilers or Maxx "C", there'd be nothing but back row stopping massive plays or loops. 58.169.180.226 (talk) 03:31, February 2, 2012 (UTC)

My march prediction
Banned

•BLS

•Monster Reborn

Limited

●Laggia & Dolkka OR Rescue Rabbit

●Inzektor Hornet

●Pot of Duality

●Mass Driver (not realisticly)

Semi-Limited

●Master Hyperion

●Grapha

●Laggia & Dolkka OR Rescue Rabbit (the opposite of whichever gets limited)

●wind up zenmaines

●Mystical Space Typhoon

●Ninja Grandmaster Hanzo

●Shien's Smoke Signal

unlimited

●Chain Strike

I see it like this, sure it was fun having BLS - Envoy back for a bit but i think it can go back where it belongs; on the shelves of collectors.

Monster Reborn is great but i noticed so many games i played are just turned around by that reborn even for lame monsters sometimes.

The limiting of Rabbit makes sense to me as it will get out that deck and i saw a semi-viable laggia dolkka build using jurrac ninjas with no rabbit but responding to that rabbbit is just so situational that you have to hit it.

Hornet needs to be at one, i play inzektors myself, i only have one and i can play 5 cards in one turn off one hornet and dragonfly, having the 3 to increase the probability of drawing that game changer is just dumb in my eyes, at least at 1 the other player gets a chance to play.

Pot of duality i see getting hit just because getting a free card of your choice off the top 3 and a shuffle seems somewhat ridiculous, sure there is that no specials but first turn duality into more duality into more duality makes random OTK decks so good. like they don't get lame cards since they choose what they need next and konami has killed weaker OTKs for cards less than duality.

the mass driver i just want back because i loved quillbolt hedgehog OTK and with no substitoad i think we gimped frogs enough.

Grapha is a card to be hit, it's not even a super amazing going to kill the deck if we take one a way, i just want less 3000 beaters hitting me in the face, and since we can't hit tour guide yet i think he's the next best thing and taking snoww would be a bit harsh, i just want less dark worlds not no darkworlds.

laggia and dolkka on the semi limit would be nice just since they are viable in more builds than just rabbit and they do slow out the game right now.

Zenmaines i just see a lot of and would like to see one less. it's great in my inzektors but i feel the power needs a bit more limit than leaving it alone on the board with a detonation needing to go off.

MST oh my gosh go away!!! i miss the days of 1 MST but i think from 3 to 1 would be too drastic right now. the game plays little risk right now with nothing in the way. if i worry about heavy storming i just MST hit the road and heavy no problem. we have way too much spell/trap removal in the meta all feeding the engine i think we can give up one generic kill across the board. i mean darkworld have grapha (and occasional DW lightning) to get backs, inzektors got hornet for backs, agents have hyperion, wind-ups have zenmaioh, its almost not worth it to play backrow (except inzektors who want their back equipped and destroyed). let 1 generic kill go.

Hanzo you can be partially limited since stratos is down and every search card in the world is too so why not take one of him off.

Shien's smoke signal can come back. one more smoke is not gonna kill us. i think we can all let them have 2 signals and not die especially with gateway still being a 1 of.

Chain strike, i think you can be unlimited who is thrown chain burn down everyone's face right now honestly?

so there's my thoughts, feel free to hyperlink anything since i didn't and don't think some are necessary.

Fire elemen6 (talk • contribs) 04:40, February 2, 2012 (UTC) fire elemen6


 * Mass Driver can't come back, because there will always be some ridiculous OTK that someone thinks up with it. MSt should stay at 3 (most people only use 2 anyways). We need all of this backrow hate to help against decks that set a bajallion backrows like Dino Rabbit, Gravekeeper's, and Stun decks. Chain Strike needs to stay where it is. Chain Burn is actually really popular right now and it's kinda consistent. We don't need that deck being ridiculous again like the old days. -- <font color="#FFA500">Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo  06:06, February 2, 2012 (UTC)

From my observation, Structure Deck promos don't get hit. It's usually the exterior cards that help the deck that get crushed. It would seem quite illogical to ban a card created for the public, like Hyperion and Grapha, even Snoww. It's the other cards that usually get a hit. Venus is likely contender though, sadly.

My predictions (My predictions aren't extreme as others and I try to be actually accurate. I'll only be showing moved cards.):

Forbidden - "Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning" - "Monster Reborn"

Limited - "Rescue Rabbit" - "Mind Crush"

Semi-Limited - "The Transmigration Prophecy" - "Marshmallon" - "Book of Moon" - "Dragged Down to the Grave"

Unlimited - "Primal Seed" - "Tragoedia"