Forum:September 2012 Banlist Predictions

We're a little early to start this conversation (Around 2.5 months away from September), but I thought it might be time to talk about the September 2012 Banlist.

Ace's Picks
Limited Unlimited
 * Rescue Rabbit - Yeah, it's time.
 * Inzektor Dragonfly and Hornet - Too annoying, make it stop.
 * Maybe Wind-Up Carrier Zenmaity? - The loop is annoying, but they haven't topped that much. Maybe a light hit, or none at all?
 * Red-Eyes Darkness Dragon? - It makes the OTK with Hieratic harder and it's another hit to Chaos Dragon, sadly all Dragon decks as well.
 * Level Limit - Area B
 * Marshmallon

Thoughts guys? -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  01:22, June 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * Well, what about Semi-Limited and Unlimited part? -- i  F  r  e  d  C  a  t  01:25, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

Hmm, Dragonfly and Hornet, yes. Zenmaity, maybe. Rescue Rabbit, dubious. Future Fusion, no. I use a Disaster Dragon, so that would cripple my deck horrendously. --Perfect Sige (talk • contribs) 01:27, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

Maybe keep Zenmaity where it is and ban Wind-Up Hunter? I heard somewhere that even with Zenmaity and/or Rat hit, there's a way to do a similar loop with Wind-Up Magician as a keystone card, so the easiest solution could just be to ban Hunter. Of course, they might not need too because Wind-Ups don't seem to be crazily topping now... if you want to ban Future Fusion per Dragon abuse, just ban Five-Headed Dragon; other decks would otherwise get collateral damage. 108.196.206.15 (talk) 01:37, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

Even if they Limit Hunter, you only need 1 in grave to loop. Personally, I doubt Hunter will get banned/limited though, because there is a new deck on the horizon that does more damage than windups, and they call it Hieratic Gishki.--Dark Pulse94 (talk • contribs) 08:54, August 2, 2012 (UTC)

I can't see inzektors getting hit in the next ban list because konami still wants to make money off of the archtype. Its going to be the same as when blackwings were the top deck. DragonslayerX1234 (talk • contribs) 01:42, June 8, 2012 (UTC)DragonslayerX1234DragonslayerX1234 (talk • contribs) 01:42, June 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * They don't make money off of Inzektors anymore. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 01:52, June 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * Agreed with Summoned Skull 2, as of Battle Pack; Epic Dawn, they become more successful since they re-released the old cards into new PSCT. -- i  F  r  e  d  C  a  t  01:56, June 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * Yeah, Konami only makes money off the initial booster pack sale, they don't make more money afterwards. The guys who get money are the secondary sellers, as in the ones who buy boxes, then sell the cards.


 * I could personally see Level Limit - Area B and Marshmallon getting unlimited, they don't seem to have done that much in the format. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  02:01, June 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * Most likely those will be unlimited. If not in September, than in March. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 02:02, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure that Hunter needs a ban, I mean there are other combos with Hunter, but they aren't as consistently done as with Carrier. Plus, Carrier can be spammed and then you have a huge field that makes you take a bunch of damage. Not a great argument, but a valid thought. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  02:06, June 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * Agreed, Inzektor or Wind-Up player can game'd their opponent just with single Hornet or Hunter, 1 copy is all they needed. It's like for myself, I just now completed my "E-Rabbit Dino" (hybrid deck of E-HERO and Rabbit Dino) that run single Rescue Rabbit and it worked very well. -- i  F  r  e  d  C  a  t  02:11, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

so here's my thoughts

Banned
 * Rescue Rabbit:Dino rabbits are pain to the butt.
 * Five headed dragon:banning future fusion would kill chimeratech machines so if the dragons have no targets to reveal...also SOME dragon decks can keep future fusion untill they get this out and if that happens, game over.
 * Inzektor Hornet:if you limit this, they will just use more cards to dump/search/recycle it. also they have that new ladybug so inzektors should be a rank 5 spam deck.
 * Wind-up Hunter:well maybe not but if they insist on hitting wind ups do this

Limited
 * Atum:the drop-3-atum-hieratic-loop/otk cant be done with 1 atum.
 * REDMD:i said this before and i'll say it again,this is OP.limit this and we should be ok
 * snoww/grapha:Maybe.DW's are big

Semi'd
 * Lightpulsar:obvious
 * Dragged Down:Maybe

Unlimited
 * Magic Cylinder:Seriously,who uses this besides burn?

That was my prediction --LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 08:14, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

I feel like people are just hitting what they hate losing to. I mean come on Inzektors? are those still a thing anymore. Rabbit will not be banned. I feel like hitting avarice would be more effective with wind-ups if you think about it in long term.


 * Why not just stop the loop, instead of worrying about Avarice? Also, Inzektors are still kinda a a deck that's used a lot, it has a good Chaos Dragon match-up, and it's a deck that gains advantage while losing nothing for 2-3 turns in a row, if Dragonfly and Centipede aren't reused. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  16:32, July 27, 2012 (UTC)

Banned


 * Hornet: Speaks for itself
 * FF (possibly): This is a POWERFUL card when used properly. But I personally thing it isn't too OP. Even if it is banned, Chaos Dragons can still use Lightsworns to mill. Which is what I usually use anyway.
 * Mind Control : Instant Xyz/Synchro fodder. No cost, no conditions.
 * Wind-Up Hunter: STOP THE LOOP

Limited


 * Atum: Take this away, breaks the OTK
 * Grapha: YEAAAAAAH, this one has to die.
 * Rescue Rabbit: I feel this one shouldn't be banned, but a limited would do it good. I haven't encountered this one enough to have a firm opinion on it.
 * Wind-Up Zenmaines (Possible): Its annoying and OP to me. I've had to deal with it A LOT and I don't like it.

Semi'd


 * REDMD: Powerful, yes, OP, not really. There are a LOT of ways to get rid of this one. Semi would be acceptable.

Unlimited

None

Jamesfury (talk • contribs) 08:52, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

Semi redmd is pointless, the hieratic oak needs 2, but redmd doesn't need a hit, atum does. SharkTenjo 10:06, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

Also, most competitive decks only use 2? I know Chaos Dragon uses 2 at most. Not too sure about Hieratic.

I'm guessing nothing will happen to Dark World, it hasn't been topping, it is prevalent in certain areas, but not that much of an issue. Also, Chimeratech Machines is really an OTK kinda deck, they don't try, but a 2nd turn Future with Overload is crazy and game winning, if the opponent can't stop it. Also, Mind Control is kinda balanced when it's at one, and it's nothing like Brain Control, because the monster can't be tributed or used to attack. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  12:50, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

Something certainly has to be done about Rescue Rabbit. At east make it Semi-limited. I'd rather that get banned than Tour Guide for example. I think Laggia is safe to be honest --Spongebob456 (talk • contribs) 12:54, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

Laggia is probably safe, due to it needing Dino materials. The only decks that come to mind are Jurrac and Evol. Who both can't make first turn Laggia, might be possible, but probably not. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  12:56, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

I've been thinking about this too...

Forbidden I've always found Brio to be too OP in too many decks, but no one uses Synchros anymore so it's unlikely. Future Fusion is asking for a ban even though I disagree. Many dragon decks even opt not to run it.
 * Brionac, Dragon of the Ice Barrier
 * Future Fusion

Limited Rabbit, one or both of the Inzektors, and something in Wind-Ups need to get banned, but I don't see it happening until March. REDMD could get hit but I'm iffy on that one. Though Hieratics are crazy in OCG and this prevents the Gustav Max play. Hitting Atum would do the same so many this or REDMD.
 * Rescue Rabbit
 * Grapha/Snoww, probably Snoww
 * Inzektor Hornet/Dragonfly
 * Zenmaity/Hunter/Anything (not too familiar with Wind-Ups)
 * REDMD
 * Atum

Semi-Limited Agents need their consistency back. And Tour guide will still be crazy powerful, but putting it to two will make it a tiny bit less splashable. Unless people go with Tour Bus instead. And if nothing else, TGU will be drawn less. Maybe March though. Maybe Lonefire can come back with Spore/Glow-Up Forbidden?
 * Agent Earth
 * Tour Guide
 * Lonefire Blossom

Unlimited Burn/Stall decks using most of these cards are too slow. Chain Burn decks won't need 3 Marshmallon or Magic Cylinder. There are more threatening stall cards than Swords of Revealing Light. And there are more threatening loops than D Hero Malicious now. And hell, I'd like a return of Synchro loops. Djjomon (talk • contribs) 13:50, June 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * Marshmallon
 * Level Limit - Area B
 * Destiny Hero - Malicious
 * Swords of Revealing Light
 * Magic Cylinder

I totally agree about "Brionac" being forbidden. It's just way too strong. But after all, is isn't that good while skill drain is on the field (81.109.138.212 (talk) 14:11, July 7, 2012 (UTC))


 * Brionac, is kinda balanced now. I mean Zombies are/were able to kinda abuse him, but he's kinda balanced. Discard 1 card, and bounce 1 card. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  14:20, July 7, 2012 (UTC)


 * its too early for atum to get hit. if konami were to do this they will just be slapping themself in the face.

Meh.....
BANHAMMA:
 * Hornet - let Inzektors have there derpy spamming, as long as they're not blowing my crap up too.
 * Hunter - same as Hornet
 * Sangan - hurt Tour Guide by getting rid of the splashable target
 * BLS NO JUST KIDDING IT'S FAIR AT 1!

RIMITEDDO:
 * DMoC - not broken anymore
 * TER - not broken anymore
 * Tribe Infecting Virus - not even half good anymore
 * Rescue Rabbit - this card is wacky
 * Atum - no more OTKs for Hieratics
 * Light Pulsar - because REDMD isn't the problem
 * Super Poly - because HEROs shouldn't be able to get around any monster for just a -1.
 * Hieratic Seal of Convocation - because consistency. Opening up with 2 means you can make any play you want really.

SAMMY RIMITEDDO:
 * The Transmigration Prophecy - not really a great card anymore.
 * Miracle Fusion - HEROs are too sacky with this at 3. Plus, players will sit there and hoard them to get around Warnings.

BACK AT TRES:
 * Marshmallon - no one cares about stall anymore
 * Magic Cylinder - only bad burn decks use this
 * Reborn Tengu - because it wasn't even a threat anymore when it was hit. It was relly just a show hit to give us the impression that Konami cares about the TCG.

--> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 20:20, June 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * I agree with some of those, excepting Tribe-Infecting Virus, Sangan, Reborn Tengu, and Miracle Fusion/Super Polymerization. Also, Hornet shouldn't be banned just yet, it would be better to limit Hornet and Dragonfly. I notice a lot of people want Future Fusion to be hit because of Dragons, but why not just ban Five-Headed Dragon? I know there are other powerful Future Fusion combos, but none that are doing well in the current meta excepting Dragons. 108.196.206.15 (talk) 21:21, June 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * /shrug Likely because Future Fusion makes his Summoning process a lot faster, and banning that (as opposed to FGD) would likely cripple the deck much worse. Lord Grammaticus (talk • contribs) 21:26, June 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * Plus, Future Fusion helps other decks too, it's better to just kill Future, you end up hurting other OTK-type decks that revolve around Chimeratech Overdragon and such. Not like people really use Fusion decks, the only major one is HERO, but they have Miracle and Super Poly, makes more sense to get rid of the card that really is like Painful Choice (Banned), if you think about it. But that's my thought to it. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  21:49, June 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * Hornet to 1 and Dragonfly to 1 makes the deck nearly unplayable. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 21:54, June 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * If Hornet left, I could be alright with 3 Dragonfly, unless we all end up hating the Rank 3/5 Spam, but seeing as regular non-looping Wind-Ups can already do that, I'm cool with it. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  22:06, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

Yes I do know it's a big list, this is everything that I could see being hit/unhit, I may have missed a few though. Banned:  Limited:  Semi-Limited:  Unlimited:  You may have noticed how I didn't mention Wind-Ups, that's because it doesn't top for crap, yes it's annoying but so are Lightsworn but they aren't likely to get hit (unless it's for Chaos Dragons). 144.131.206.115 (talk) 06:50, June 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * BLS (MAYBE, decks that use it aren't topping for shit).
 * Future Fusion (Way way way too good first turn).
 * Laggia (MAYBE, a very very big maybe since in OCG Rabbit decks aren't doing shit).
 * Gaia Dragon, the Thunder Charger (a big part of the Hieratic OTK).
 * Inzektor Sword - Zektkaliber (enables the Inzektor OTK)
 * Wind-Up Zenmaines (ever versed two on the field at once? It's a bitch).
 * Book of Moon (it sees very little play, maybe with two people would run it more).
 * TGU (ONLY if OCG are getting it soon).
 * The Agent of Mystery - Earth (this was way too harsh a hit for Agents).
 * T.G. Striker (same as above, maybe not though it is a special summon floating tuner).
 * Master Hyperion (if agents get a boost this'd be needed).
 * Rabbit (Same as Laggia, it's not very likely, it'd only happen if either A, OCG are getting TGU soon, or B, OCG take note of the fact it's topping so consistently in TCG, before you ask I don't play Rabbit).
 * Elemental HERO Neos Alius AND/OR E - Emergency Call (Heros are topping a bit over in OCG from what I hear).
 * Asceticism of the Six Samurai (Asceticism Six Sam decks are popular in OCGland)
 * REDMD (Big in Chaos Dragons, big in Hieratics (although they aren't needed inhand)).
 * Light-Pulsar (pretty much Chaos Sorc with more atk, more revival and a much more annoying effect).
 * Atum (As I said before, Hieratics are big in OCGland).
 * Inzektor Hornet + Inzektor Dragonfly (hit the consistency a bit. A limit to Hornet or Dragonfly would be too much).
 * Rekindling and/or Laval Volcano Handmaiden (very big for Laval decks which top consistently in OCG).
 * Dragged Down into the Grave (not likely but it's a VERY good card in DW, this is more a personal thing though, I find it's kind of unfair to be able to plus while seeing your opponents hand and discarding a card of your choice, it's why Trap Dustshoot was banned).
 * Pot of Duality and/or Cardcar D (when they're run in 3s in almost every deck you know there's something wrong).
 * Spore and GUB (we can hope, since the meta sped up a bit maybe plants would be a bit fairer).
 * Tengu (I haven't seen a single deck that's used this since the semi, and it's not that amazing outside of synchroing, and why'd they even hit it when TGU was a thing?).


 * In terms of hitting Hieratics, I think that Hieratic Dragon King of Atum and Hieratic Seal of Convocation should be limited; in which case Gaia Dragon, the Thunder Charger might as well be left Unlimited. 108.196.206.15 (talk) 11:38, June 9, 2012 (UTC)


 * I doubt Wind-Up Zenmaines will be hit, actually, I see a lot in your list that I don't agree with. REDMD is used at 2 in Chaos Dragon and maybe at 2/3 in the Hieratic OTK, so a Semi on him is useless. But it would be easier to hit the cards that enable OTK plays, so Konami will probably add like maybe 4-5 cards to the list, and maybe change the positions of others. Also, the Plants are probably not coming back, still too many plays left to them, plus they are free, no-cost tuners that can be revived whenever you want, which isn't fair, no matter how you justify it, Plaguespreader Zombie is probably the limit to what a reusable tuner should do, since it has a cost. Plus, you want Tengu AND the Plant tuners back? Yeah, not happening. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  12:53, June 9, 2012 (UTC)

I doubt that Reborn Tengu will be back to unlimited in the near future, especially if the Plant tuners return (I'm actually thinking that there's a decent chance of Spore returning). That thing's like Destiny HERO - Malicious, except even worse. 108.196.206.15 (talk) 16:39, June 9, 2012 (UTC)

Mali was used in Tele DaD, tengu in Plants. And I was just saying since the meta's so fast now, easily plusing multiple times a turn (Inzektors, Rabbit, etc), the fact they wouldn't plus the hardest might be enough to be brought back. Oh, and my Spore/GUB thing was an "I wish", I do doubt it'll happen and I still think Tengu should be brought back even if Spore/GUB aren't. I doubt many decks would even run him. Sure he's a great floater but what else can you use him for (other than boosting the current sychro decks and stalling)? 144.131.206.115 (talk) 01:44, June 10, 2012 (UTC)


 * Still don't think TeleDAD will be back to where it once was, because the point of this banlist is to probably slow down Inzkektors and Rabbit, so bringing back TeleDAD, even is it just Mali, isn't the best idea, plus, Emergency Teleport is at 2. Even if Tele isn't back to it's old power and speed, still pretty dangerous Synchro stuff. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  12:49, June 10, 2012 (UTC)


 * Mali going to 3 wouldn't make a huge difference for Tele-DAD. It would make it more consistent and usable, but we wouldn't see it topping any YCS's. And after Konami put JD at 3 and Lumina at 2 I'm expecting to see them bringing some other potentially powerful decks off the banlist. Djjomon (talk • contribs) 14:04, June 10, 2012 (UTC)

AS I said earlier, I'm okay with FF/FHD being banned because I use Lightsworns more. Also, just limit Atum, instant stop for the OTK. Zenmaines I would LIKE to be hit, but probably will not, even though it is in the OCG. Right now it seems Chaos, Hieratics, and Inzectors will be the big ones hit. Wind-Ups may get Hunter banned, who knows. From my research RR hasn't been doing so hot, and I doubt that D and Duality will be hit. Jamesfury (talk • contribs) 05:15, June 11, 2012 (UTC)

--Tupac1971ful (talk • contribs) 08:57, June 14, 2012 (UTC) well as most said inzektors/rabbits/wind-ups/hieratics/chaos dragons/dark world need to be hit. dragonfly/hornet limited,rescue rabbit semi-limited,hunter limited or banned?,atumn limiterd,future fusion and RED-eyes limited and snow/grapha limited (snow problably)..but except of those there are decks that need a little push like blackwings they are too slow nowadays many cards hitted and cant stand the meta in their current state,than lonefire and debris can be at 2 as well as mezuki or Agent of mystery - earth, (zombies even with their swarming they dobnt see play)..the help lightsworns a lot so maybe lumina at 3? but possibly not..

--Tupac1971ful (talk • contribs) 08:59, June 14, 2012 (UTC) i mean future fusion banned (this card is not only OP in dragons but its too broken for other reasons too! ) and REDMD gets to be limited.


 * Why do people want Dark World hit? They aren't even topping heavily, they are big and consistant, and they pop a card here and there, but they're that good as to need a hit. Just feels like people are hating on Grapha. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  12:36, June 15, 2012 (UTC)

I dont think tele dad can make of a comeback ,because crush card virus, dimnensional fusion and dark magician of chaos are all banned.

matthew.lightbody@talktalk.net (talk • contribs) 18:04, June 15, 2012 (UTC)

I personally think if you want to hit Chaos Dragon, ban Five headed dragon and not future fusion. Five headed dragon is the reason why chaos dragon are able to dump so many dragons into the grave, if five headed dragon is gone, then they can't use future fusion to dump so many dragons, making future fusion almost pointless in that deck. Also decks that revolve around future fusion, like the chimeratech OTK don't even top in todays meta, chaos dragon is the only good deck that uses future fusion, and the only reason it works is due to five headed dragon, so really, there's almost no reason to ban future fusion and hurt a lot of decks that need it, when you can just ban five headed dragon and hurt only 1 deck (chaos dragon). Also, I think Inzektor hornet and dragonfly should be limited, as they are the main driving force behind the inzektor engine or if you don't want to limit dragonfly, ban hornet, and atum should be limited to 1, to stop the hieratic otk. Wind-up Hunter I hope gets banned, or zenmaighty gets limited, but I doubt it. Neos01 (talk • contribs) 19:19, June 15, 2012 (UTC)

I've noticed some of you guys look to be straight up killing archetypes. I mean, as the previous guy said he wants Dragonfly AND Hornet Limited or Hornet BANNED. I mean jeeze, that's a little more than a hit, that'd completely kill the archetype, Ladybug is only run as a substitution Hornet, it isn't very good, and there's no substitution Dragonfly. I mean, why would you want to kill an archetype and not just hinder it so it's no longer as dominant? I personally don't think FHD would get banned is FF has already been hit down to a limit, it'd be more likely for a card to get banned from a limit than from 3. And is this time going to be exactly the same as last time where noone realizes TCG only cards exist and the meta in TCG and OCG are completely different? Because that got annoying after a few minutes of "TGU NEEDS A LIMIT!"(although if it was an OCG card I would agree to a semi, but they don't have it so why should they care). 144.131.206.115 (talk) 01:36, June 17, 2012 (UTC)


 * Inzektors won't be dead without Hornet. They just have to rely on the other Inzektors, like Ladybug and whatnot, and make Rank 5/6 Summons. But doing anything other a straight-out ban on Hornet, or a limit on Dragonfly and Hornet, won't help. Even if you limit Hornet, cards like Armageddon Knight exist, that is only 1 card, but if Hornet gets limited, people might just slot 2 of him in, that combined with stuff like Summoner Monk...it's going to be annoying, and means that Hornet will still wind up in the grave, probably every duel. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  01:30, June 18, 2012 (UTC)


 * So Agents (I'm talking pure agents which were definitely playable) are meant to be playable since they only had 1 limit?(Also note how the search card was hit and not the cards that do anything).
 * You're suggesting Inzektors should have a straight up ban on their main monster (hornet) or a limit to both their main monster and their main Xyz monster (where a side deck would kill them very easily)?
 * Oh and Ladybug only does rank 4/5's, and if you only have a Centi out (which would be common with a limited Dragonfly) it does absolutely nothing. You get to boost the level of 1 monster for no apparent reason (don't say Monster Reborn, Inzektor Sword - Zektkaliber, Inzektor Giga-Mantis, etc because not only would that require an extra card just for a rank 3/4/5 but for the 2 Inzektor cards they need to be popped).
 * You can't honestly tell me that a limit to both wouldn't kill the deck. And outright banning hornet would most likely do the same, rank 5's suck and there are better rank 4 spam decks.
 * 144.131.206.115 (talk) 05:28, June 18, 2012 (UTC)


 * Even if hornet is banned, if you keep the other inzektors unlimited the deck will still be fine. If you replace Ladybug with hornet in the inzektor combo, you can summon Xyz monsters losing no advantage. And 1 hornet and 1 dragonfly is all that is needed to start the combo, so even if 1 hornet or dragonfly exists, so will the combo. Rank 5's don't suck, Tiras can't be destroyed by card effects and can destroy a card each time it battles, Exa-Stag can steal an opponents monster and increase its ATK and Zenmaioh can destroy 2 facedowns, those don't suck, and there're tons of Rank 4's that can be used, and don't forget you can still use Rank 3's. So yeah, even if hornet is gone, inzektors are still very playable. 90.201.114.147 (talk) 09:00, June 18, 2012 (UTC)


 * As I said before, they start with Centi (50% chance to have a Centi and not a Dragonfly), yep that Ladybug sure did a lot of good.
 * Let's say they get Tyras out. Oh look at that, a little Chaos Dragon deck (a very common deck) where they can attack over it quite easily.
 * Rabbit no longer has a problem with the deck as they don't have to worry about Reborn reviving whatever to re-pop everything making Laggia/Dolkka useless.
 * Hieratics would quite easily attack over it.
 * Lavals (which should be in TCG by the time the banlist hits if I'm not mistaken) can attack over it so easily it isn't funny.
 * Don't even TRY to say Exa-Stag is good, it's 800 attack that can take 1 monster and gain half its attack. So if we say 2500 attack as the average 800 + 2500/2 = 2050, if you manage to protect it 2 turns and equip a 2500 attacker for each, then it's 3300. OR you know, Adreus, Keeper of Armageddon 2600 attack that gets rid of one face up monster, the only situation I can see Exa-Stag being better is against Light Pulsar Dragon or Elemental HERO Absolute Zero where it wont activate their effects due to them never leaving the field.
 * And if you want rank 4s, what the hell are you using Inzektors for? There are plenty of archetypes that do it much faster, easier and better. The fact they can also do rank 3s and 5s doesn't make much of a difference.
 * But seriously, compared to pop 2 a rank 5 is nothing, they aren't doing amazingly in TCG (they are in OCG without a doubt though), so this hit would make it T1.5 or even lower over here.
 * 144.131.206.115 (talk) 10:05, June 18, 2012 (UTC)

I know this is a little off topic, but do any of you think that Glads will get a boost in either the September or March banlist? Personally i think the limit on Bestiari cripples the deck from its true playability potential.--71.169.36.22 (talk) 21:57, June 18, 2012 (UTC)


 * Yeah, but with more than 1 Gladiator Beast Bestiari, both Glads and Gyzarus Spam decks get a boost, Gyzarus spam isn't worth 2 Bestiari. Also to the Inzektor player, what do you do if you can't hit Hornet or Dragonfly? The fact is, the combo exists, the consistency exists, you have to get rid of one, what would you hit? The ban on Agents gets rid of Consistency, the deck isn't competitively playable because of that. Now what do you do so Inzektors become less broken, because the pop 2 a turn for 2/3 turns if you open right, is annoying and unfair, because in the end, the Inzektor guy gets a Rank 3, loses nothing in terms of cards, and the other guy loses 2 cards, and has to kill the Rank 3. Pop 2 is good, no one has said it isn't, but it's also not totally fair, because if I don't have Skill Drain, Effect Veiler, or Macro Cosmos, I can't do much. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  23:33, June 18, 2012 (UTC)

I'm kinda lost when you say that decks that run BLS don't top. Inzektors run BLS and they do very well. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 23:19, June 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * I think he meant decks that are based on him, like Chaos. But BLS in Inzektors isn't the problem in Inzektors. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  00:05, June 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * Actually no, I mean barely any decks that run BLS that aren't chaos dragons top, and if they do run BLS they're just reducing consistency. Inzektors do better without it and if you run BLS in Rabbit you're an idiot.
 * Also @Ace, I don't play Inzektors often because I don't enjoy playing them, I just don't like to see people wanting to kill an archetype because they think it's "OMG SO BROKEN GOTTA KILL NOW!" without looking at the other options.
 * Currently Inzektors have 4 level 3's, Dragonfly, Centi, Hornet and Inzektor Ant.
 * Seeing as Dragonfly enables Xyz (which is a big part of what the deck is meant to be about), you can't hit it too hard.
 * Hornet enables rank 3s and is the only equip they have that isn't completely useless when equipped to a single monster, the others are rather situational (Inzektor Earwig boosts the monster 1000 attack, Inzektor Firefly views all set cards the opponent controls, Inzektor Hopper allows the monster to attack directly while other monsters can't attack, and Inzektor Ladybug boosts 1 face up monsters level by 1-2). The effect is good but hitting it would mean hitting one of the only GOOD equips, not to mention other cards were based around its effect (Giga-Mantis, Giga-Weevil, Zektkaliber) so you can't really hit it too hard.
 * Centi searches and helps the combo repeat while being replaceable (Hornet/Ant, yes Ant's shit). Banning would probably be too big a hit though.
 * After looking over all this, a Centi Limit, Hornet Semi would probably do the trick, or Hornet Semi, Dragonfly Semi with maybe Centi Semi. Hit the consistency a bit instead of killing the main cards in the deck. (Again, with Agents, they hit the searcher and not Hyperion/Venus/Kristya).
 * 144.131.206.115 (talk) 05:04, June 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * People seem to forget that the F&L List isn't meant to destroy decks, but to balance out the game for all players. Inzektors losing their destruction powers or having their looping powers nerfed would do just that. Make them balanced and still competitive, But no longer the deck that caused Shadow-Imprisoning Mirror to go from 10 cents to over 4 dollars. Djjomon (talk • contribs) 05:38, June 20, 2012 (UTC)

inzektors its turn gain a total of +2-3 advatage,its totally unfair..dragonfly is broken its not once per turn and its effect activates for its equiped card to it sent to grave,so as many said the best solution would be to hit consistency of the deck personally i would go 2 dragonfly and 1 hornet..or otherwise as a last resort they can hit this deck too tough and release new support for it less broken thats a way they have been doing for many cards/decks that seemed to be broken (substitoad,DMoC,fishborg blaster etc. or the new blackwing monster instead of kalut giving 500atck boost and not 1400) well the thing is that they have to be nerfed somehow..its annoying having a dominant deck in so many terms better than other common decks but thats the truth for its format --Tupac1971ful (talk • contribs) 07:45, June 20, 2012 (UTC)

Currently Banned Cards
Out of curiosity, are there any currently banned cards that anybody wants back this Banlist? I've noticed that a couple of people want to bring back DMoC, I don't know if that would be good or not. 108.196.206.15 (talk) 20:33, June 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * The ones I heard the most are DmoC, TER, Metamorphosis, Sinister Serpent, Glow-Up Bulb, and Spore. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 20:52, June 20, 2012 (UTC)

Oh yeah, TER... he's not that bad anymore, he should come back. 108.196.206.15 (talk) 21:08, June 20, 2012 (UTC)

from what you said only DmoC stands a change to be unbanned and maybe MOF because she is too slow flip effect..TER!! yes really good idea..use instant fusion to summon him take easy one of your opponents monsters and then use this for syncrho or even tribute summon..wait wait wait its not over yet! use monster reborn/call of the haunted to revive it and reuse this effect abd lock your oppponent..yay! --Tupac1971ful (talk • contribs) 21:19, June 20, 2012 (UTC)

Congratulations, you just thought of a less than consistent combo. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 21:26, June 20, 2012 (UTC)

The sarcasm is strong with that one, the typos were especially endearing... Thousand-Eyes Restrict is definitely not as powerful as he used to be, the best way to use him is Instant Fusion + Monarchs probably. Plus, how could BLS be legal and TER be banned? 108.196.206.15 (talk) 21:40, June 20, 2012 (UTC) EDIT: Why, oh why, would anybody want Metamorphosis back?

Because Metamorphosis isn't broken. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 21:52, June 20, 2012 (UTC)

Not broken? I guess it's arguably less broken than some things, but I still dislike the "Metal Reflect Slime to Naturia Extrio" and "Beast King Barbaros to Cyber Twin Dragon" stuff, amongst others (Fusilier Dragon, the Dual-Mode Beast or Gorz Token to Cyber Ogre 2 or King Dragun, the list goes on and on). 108.196.206.15 (talk) 22:01, June 20, 2012 (UTC) Oh, and Gagaga Magician...

TER might not be as good as he was but he still is really good with instant fusion..personally,he deserves to be banned..as for metamorphosis definetly not! as the previous guy said its broken,tech that in DW's and got for easy cyber twin dragon or instead of metal reflect slime (that nobody uses) u can replace that with commonly played cards like REDMD or tragoedia to go for Naturia Exterio..the only right is "why TER be banned and BLS limited,hes much more broken" but thats obvisously for konami's interest's..and spore and glow wont come back - they are not that broken but there are 2 reasons 1st they are reuseble tuners in general without cost and 2ond they banned them to make XYZ monsters more popolar over synchros --Tupac1971ful (talk • contribs) 09:17, June 21, 2012 (UTC)

I've noticed quite a few people wanted DMoC back, I'm actually thinking that might be plausible, they reprinted it in Epic Dawn, right? 108.196.206.15 (talk) 21:09, June 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * I could see DMoC coming back. Definitely less broken than many cards we have now. It would add support to the new Spellcasters coming out in REDU too. Djjomon (talk • contribs) 21:51, June 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * Ice Queen was supposed to be DMoC's nerfed replacement, plus, they reprinted a lot of older banned cards in Dawn, can't be sure if DMoC will come back based on that alone. More or less plausible than the others, but still. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  00:41, June 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * Plus isn't possible to create the OTK I think, as long as Dimension Fusion stays banned, or is there some other spell card that summons back Banished Monsters, that can be reused by DMoC that same turn? Unless you use Imperial Iron Wall + Monster Reborn (Thankfully no real great way to search this thing out)... -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  00:44, June 22, 2012 (UTC)

I think I heard somewhere that the Imperial Iron Wall/Monster Reborn combo would be the only way to still do the OTK if he got unbanned. The thing is that it's two cards that aren't worth building a deck around searching + DMoC, so it's extremely inconsistent to say the least. 108.196.206.15 (talk) 10:55, June 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * Yeah, no easy way to search Monster Reborn, so not that big a deal, since other OTKs still exist. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  15:20, June 22, 2012 (UTC)

i really want magician of faith back, some decks are just BASED on a spell card. only 3 cards are a big deal with that thing.

i really want magician of faith back, some decks are just BASED on a spell card. only 3 cards are a big deal with that thing.-LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 12:38, June 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * You posted the above comment twice. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  16:19, June 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't think Magician of Faith will even be considered for coming back by many people unless one of Monster Reborn, Dark Hole, and Heavy Storm were to be banned. Even then, it would be better if 2 of those 3 were banned, which will probably not happen. I'd rather have all 3 of those than the Magician. 108.196.206.15 (talk) 12:46, June 25, 2012 (UTC) EDIT - And on flip effects being too slow, Apprentice Magician...


 * Yeah, Magician of Faith doesn't need to come back and make things crazier. Plus, in some regards wouldn't that make the DMoC have a greater chance of not coming back? Faith would allow you to reverse toolbox Monster Reborn, again not that big a deal, considering Reborn is at 1, but still a point. And there is no point of having Faith and Limited Spell cards. -- - Dark Ace SP  ( Talk )  03:11, June 26, 2012 (UTC)


 * All in all, I think that DMoC is harder to splash into any given deck than Magician of Faith, and therefore might stand somewhat more of a chance of returning. We'll see within a couple months if any of this is true though. 108.196.206.15 (talk) 22:26, July 1, 2012 (UTC)

Banlist Prediction #1
FORBIDDEN


 * Future Fusion - Chaos-Dragons, and other decks that uses this should slow down a bit.
 * Reinforcement of the Army - Just a feeling.

LIMITED


 * Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon - They should slow down Chaos-Dragons and Hieroglyphs.


 * Inzektor Hornet - Killing Damsel is like killing the deck. Hornet will slow this down.


 * Mystical Space Typhoon - err, MST is a pain in the a**. That's why it was limited to 1 a long time ago.


 * Giant Trunade - IF, and only IF MST gets it, this MIGHT happen. So please. This is my opinion.


 * Rescue Rabbit - Well, he really is a pain in the a**.


 * Wind-Up Carrier Zenmaity OR Wind-Up Rat - well, either one of them should be hit.


 * Card Trooper - Just a feeling he'll be back up here.

SEMI-LIMITED


 * Effect Veiler - IF, and only IF the above cards on the LIMITED list are hit.

UNLIMITED

(None for now.)

Jampong (talk • contribs) 08:27, July 1, 2012 (UTC)

This is all opinion oriented, your list and other lists, so you can post what you want, but give us the room to also comment on your list. This thread and every other F&L List thread is just a thought board. Anyway, Reinforcement of the Army might not be Forbidden, I mean the only deck that really uses it would be E-HERO, but even then they have E-Call so it wouldn't be that bad. REDMD might be hit at 1, that is a small possibility, but hitting Atum would be better to stop Hieroglyphs. As for Chaos Dragon, hit Lightpulsar Dragon to 2?

I think Konami hates backrow formats. Usually when MST, Trunade, and Heavy are at 1, people start to play heavy trap counts. Not sure why Trooper would be back at 1, I don't think he does anything, except thin the deck, and only Chaos Dragon uses him. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  13:57, July 1, 2012 (UTC)

MST wont go back to the banlist,it was reprited to hybrid rare so konami wants to make money from it but thats not it..even if it is to be limited there is still night beam --Tupac1971ful (talk • contribs) 13:53, July 2, 2012 (UTC)

Personal Predictions
Banned
 * Future Fusion

Limited
 * Red-Eyes Darkness Dragon
 * Snoww, Unlight of Dark World Hit consistency
 * Inzektor Dragonfly Same
 * Wind-Up Carrier Zenmaity They must stop the loop
 * Hieratic Dragon King of Atum Stop OTK

Semi-Limited
 * Rescue Rabbit
 * Blackwing - Kalut the Moon Shadow Blackwings need a push
 * Mezuki Very little chances since Leviair the Sea Dragon is around
 * The Agent of Mystery - Earth
 * Lonefire Blossom GUB and Spore are forbidden,this card doesnt see play at all and can be veilered with the new priority rule change..
 * Rekindling one card wins in the right conditions
 * Black Whirlwind Help Blackwings >.>
 * Miracle Fusion The only card to hit for E-heroes but this is still not much of a need
 * The Transmigration Prophecy Good card but limited is a little too much

Unlimited --Tupac1971ful (talk • contribs) 14:38, July 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * Marshmallon
 * Necro Gardna Lightsworns dont top at all
 * Reborn Tengu I mean,plants arent around this is mainly for syncrho decks and i cant imagine many decks that will run this (T.G stun and Scraps mainly),also PoA is limited so..maybe,it isnt a thread nowadays
 * Level Limit - Area B

I can't agree with the Necro Gardna and Rekindling (Need to full grave for a OTK kinda thing, which is slow, even in Lavals). Blackwings had there chance, let them rest in peace, or just make Kalut Semi, if you really like them. Lightsworns might not be topping, but making Necro Gardna Unlimited is a stupid thing to do, even if Lightsworns don't top, too much protection. Miracle Fusion might be a hit, but maybe the hit should be to E-Call? I personally don't think HERO is a threat. HERO is just too slow compared to Dino-Rabbit and Chaos Dragon.

Also, The Transmigration Prophecy needs to be at 1, otherwise it creates a loop of itself, I mean Pot of Benevolence does the same thing, but Pot of Benevolence can't be chained. Also, this card is part of a stall deck with D.D. Borderline.

Also, no one has yet mentioned stuff like instant win decks (Very Slow, I know that), but Final Countdown and Exodia sucks, Cardcar D gave a huge boost to them. I mean if people have to consider Stealth Bird for the Side Deck, there might be a problem.

-- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  23:08, July 2, 2012 (UTC)

Necro Gardna wont change much at 3..charge is at 1 and lumina at 2 this can be a dead draw many times and for lightsworns it wont change much,when opposed against a Chaos dragon or Rabbit deck what can a Mere LS deck do even with 3 gardnas in the deck? and rekindling can be deadly its not difficult to set your graveyard just 1 Sweltering Heat Transmission Field and with rekindling you can bring Red Nova Dragon or Shooting Quasar Dragon especialy in the late game,gives a large potention at syncrho summoning..and what about Blackings? they had their legacy but arent they dead? shoudlnt konami just make them not top,but competitive again they are too slow and cant stand the meta..Whirlwind and Kalut at 2 should make the difference --Tupac1971ful (talk • contribs) 08:35, July 3, 2012 (UTC)

tupac, both whirlwind AND kalut at 2 will make the deck broken again, if you play them on DN, try the new promotional card as they got some good new cards.but 2 kalut 2whirlwind is just overpushing, just like what konami did to sams.--LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 17:48, July 3, 2012 (UTC)

@LaserGhost you mean Damascus,Gladius and Gram? they are all almost useless..damascus boosts only 500atk,gladius isnt a tuner and Gram cant be used with vayu so which part of them is good? and its obvious (lets say at the current format),2 kalut and 2 whirlwinds won't make such a big change to say Blackwings will be broken,thats for sure.. --Tupac1971ful (talk • contribs) 22:46, July 3, 2012 (UTC)


 * looks like you are not proffesional player, blackwing is not just vayu,these 500 are actually something good and who said that double kalut double whirlwinds wont get them back? whirlwind means easy access to anything double kalut means you rarely win a battle agains a BW.--LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 13:35, July 4, 2012 (UTC)


 * Ghost has a point. I mean Vayu + Shura makes Gram, who can then summon another Shura, or Bora if you use him. And Gladius can be revived with Blizzard, giving you more access to Level 5 Synchros. Personally, I'm alright if either Kault or Whirlwind comes back, but not both, since Kault was limited along with Honest to hit Blackwings and Lightsworns, respectively. But bringing back the "Honest" for Blackwings, AND a card that can search him out? That's when I say wrong. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  14:35, July 4, 2012 (UTC)

Fire Fall's Predictions
I'm going to try and base my thoughts on the criteria that they put up on the Yugioh Article website a while ago. Which were....


 * 1.To prevent a situation where you feel “locked in” – where you HAVE to play with certain cards, or a certain Deck.
 * 2.To keep it so there are choices for what Deck you play. Avoid having 1 dominant Deck.
 * 3.To restrict “solitaire” play Decks. These are usually first-turn-combo Decks where one Duelist plays by themselves for 15 minutes, shuffling and summoning cards while their opponent twiddles his thumbs.
 * 4.To eliminate cards that are confusing, cause games to stall out, create infinite loops, or can otherwise interfere with tournaments and make them unpleasant.

Banned Wind-Up Rat or Wind-Up Hunter - Reasons 1 and 4 - Not only is it a negative play experience for both sides (How many times have you faced a person who ran the loop and heard the line 'I don't usually play the loop.' If people feel they have to justify running the loop then it's a bad experience for them as well.) but also if you want to stand a chance against the loop you're forced to run either Max "C" or Effect Veiler.

REDMD - Reasons 1, 2 and 3- If you play dragons then you play with REDMD no matter what but with all the new dragon support now on offer he's become to powerful, that and he's a key card now one to many OTKs involving dragons.

Limited Inzektor Hornet or Inzektor Dragonfly - Reason 1 - You play Inzektors then you play with the main three Inzektors of Centipede, Hornet and Dragonfly, then build the rest of the deck around them. Limiting Hornet or Dragonfly will not only slow them down (though not by much) but make it so Inzektor players will put something else in their deck and add a bit of variety to it.

E - Emergency Call - Reasons 1 and 2 - Hero Beat has been consistently topping in the OCG for months now, if you head over to Shriek OCG and check out their tournament lists you'll see that Hero Beat is a bigger threat then any of the other decks now. Limiting Emergency Call will slow them down. Then Again there are other ways to do it but something in Hero Beat will be hit.

Semi Limited Rescue Rabbit - Reason 1 - Rabbit isn't as bad as he used to be, with the priority ruling gone you can now successfully hit him with a lot more cards. Still being on three is a bit much, thus he needs a semi.

TGU - Reason 4 - With TGU now widely available she's getting spammed to a lot more decks, she's a card you can put in any deck and get pluses out of her. Which makes her to dangerous to remain at three. She can join Tengu as a TCG exclusive on the banlist.

Unlimited Magic Cylinder - The harm Cylinder could do in today's meta is minimal therefore I see it returning to three. --The FireFALL (talk • contribs) 20:29, July 4, 2012 (UTC)


 * I decided to check out Shriek OCG just to see if there were a ton of HERO decks topping. There were, but the HERO decks I saw looked like they wanted to do nothing but make Blade Armor Ninja, not saying he will be hit, but a simple hit to their consistency should be enough, I think Miracle can stay at 3. Also, REDMD isn't that bad, only Lightpulsar makes him seem broken, as people don't have to go through his cost or anything like that. As for his OTK stuff, that's mostly in Hieratic (Chaos Dragon does it too, but I wouldn't blame that solely on REDMD, Lightpulsar has an effect too...), which REDMD is a part of, but for that loop you need 2-3 Atum, so isn't it better to limit Atum to 1? -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  01:29, July 5, 2012 (UTC)


 * As for Rule 3, why not do something to stuff like Final Countdown or other instant win decks, they aren't consistent, but they're no fun to play against. Cardcar D made those decks even faster. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  01:38, July 5, 2012 (UTC)


 * What list are you looking at on Shriek? I only found the list of tournaments (which I don't completely trust because it lists locals too.) I've been wanting to keep up on OCG decks. Djjomon (talk • contribs) 01:39, July 5, 2012 (UTC)

Final Countdown is currently the only big stalling deck which is topping and even then it's only won one regional. Then again that's not to say it isn't being watched, as another article on the Yugioh website had suggestions on what to side if you hit FC. Night Shot and Eradicator Epidemic Virus if you were wondering kills the deck :P.

As for the tournaments on Shriek, they're trustworthy. It is Shriek after all. I'll admit though the one piece of info missing is just how many decks of each are run in the tournament but aside from that it does show an accurate look at the OCG metagame. Also if you only want to take the big tournaments seriously then just look at everything with 'Championship' in it's name. Though i'll save you some time, the current meta decks in order of what tops the most is Inzektor, Hero Beat\Alive Hero, Verz Rabbit, Heiroglyth\Heiroglyth Ritual, Gadget Offering Machina and Lavals (though Lavals have decreased in the past few months).--82.43.41.152 (talk) 01:55, July 5, 2012 (UTC)


 * Ok, not too far off from what I expected, thank you. Djjomon (talk • contribs) 03:19, July 5, 2012 (UTC)

Just a little note to people who hate wind-ups so much: To stop the loop, just limit zenmaity,hitting rat is devestating the deck that is supposed to be fun and if you notice, konami doesn't ban anything unless it generates unfair advantage mostly by itself that means hunter won't be banned.Unlike hornet because hornet simply's limit won't do anything. Also, if we compare the amount of cards hunter needs to the amount of cards hornet needs it will become obvious.--LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 12:20, July 5, 2012 (UTC)

BTH the real problem with the Wind-Ups is Wind-Up Shark. A lot of the time the loop is started because of one Shark. He's not in the OCG, hence why they're not topping over there but I digress. I've been looking over the info for the TCG championships that have happened recently, though I could only find the ones held in America and South America and the results pretty much show one thing. Dino Rabbits will be hit. They've pretty much dominated most of the tournaments with quite a few of them ending in Rabbit Mirror matches. So I'm going to change my view of Semi Limiting the Rabbit. Now that Rabbit needs to be either limited or banned.--The FireFALL (talk • contribs) 15:55, July 5, 2012 (UTC)


 * How many of those tops were before the priority change? -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  18:49, July 5, 2012 (UTC)

just a thought
Banned


 * Future Fusion:Obvious. Chaos Dragons are VERY big and this card is a game winner in many other decks
 * Hornet:well, hitting dragonfly is killing all the deck, limiting this will just make them use more cards to dump/search this, if this is banned they will just be a Rank 5 spam deck
 * Brionac:maybe yes and maybe no.this is a game winner by himself.

Limited


 * REDMD:this thing defines the Word "Broken".A hit to Chaos Dragons and Hieratics.
 * Rabbit:Well, banning it would kill the only decent support of normal monsters. Dino rabbits are hard to hit so this is meh.
 * Atum:the triple atum hieratic loop needs 3 atum
 * Zenmaity:I really dont want that to happen but if you insist on hitting wind-ups...

Semi-Limited
 * Messenger of Peace:this card is better these days because xyz monsters are affected. also the cost is a joke.
 * Miracle Fusion:that is IF you want HEROes hit.

Unlimited
 * Tragoedia:Seriously who runs that these days? and still, who would run it in 3?
 * Magic Cylinder:Besides burn,this card is as dead as negate attack.

that was my thoughts on a list --LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 14:31, July 2, 2012 (UTC)

ok i might be a little arrogant and selfish because im a blackwing player and i really like them..seriously if kalut or whirlwind (im not speking for both) wont come back thats a real problem cause blackwings now just suck,too slow..kalut and honest are really too different as kalut gives the boost of 1400 and its only for blackwings but honest has high defense to get beaten from a lvl4 or lower monster,it can get itself from the field back to the hand so this gives so many combos,your monster will gain your opponents monster atck so this means you almost win ANY battle and above all he is a universal light staple card! theres no deck with the light attribute not running honest.. so my thought is that those 2 cards have big differences and stop saying kalut is like honest..just saying --Tupac1971ful (talk • contribs) 21:55, July 5, 2012 (UTC)

Blackwings could get a boost but don't entirely need it. They're still quite threatening, just not broken like you want them. Kalut OR Whirlwind to 2 would be helpful in different situations, both would be a bit too powerful. (So while we're at it, give Gravekeeper's Royal Oppression back.) Rabbit needs to get hit, it's way over-powered. And better yet, Dino Rabbit isn't even an archetype. Evolzars were made for Evols, so they'll still see play (Evols are a highly underrated deck as well.)Djjomon (talk • contribs) 22:59, July 5, 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't think anyone even expects the Evolzars to be hit, hitting Rabbit makes more sense, if they still survive and people want to play them, Laggia and Dolkka can still be made, but it would take more time to make them. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  00:44, July 6, 2012 (UTC)

Just my thoughts
Banned Limited Semi-Limited Unlimited Everything Ace said Thoughts anyone? Ja1lbreakr0cks (talk • contribs) 20:03, July 6, 2012 (UTC)
 * Inzektor Hornet
 * Wind-Up Hunter
 * Rescue Rabbit
 * Wind-Up Carrier Zenmaity
 * (maybe)Glow-Up Bulb
 * (maybe)Spore
 * (maybe)Glow-Up Bulb
 * (maybe)Spore
 * (at the least)Wind-Up Carrier Zenmaity
 * (maybe)Wind-Up Rat
 * (maybe)The Agent of Mystery - Earth
 * (possibly)Master Hyperion
 * (maybe)Mist Wurm
 * Level Limit - Area B
 * Marshmallon
 * (maybe)Lumina, Lightsworn Summoner

I don't know if Carrier needs to be limited if Hunter is banned, I mean Wind-Ups were made to Xyz various Levels, and Zenmaity helps with that goal. I really don't think Spore or Glow-Up will come back (Based on this article over on the KSS. Also, I'm not sure Hyperion needs a hit, he's not that searchable, plus I think Venus and the Gachi Spam was the issue, I think Hyperion is safe at 3. But if Venus does come back to 2, what would that do to the OCG?

What makes Mist Wurm need a hit? He's not really played, and even if Spore or Glow did somehow come back, most people would use maybe just 1 Wurm, if at all. And no way in hell is Lumina going to 3. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  21:21, July 6, 2012 (UTC)

Nauske Confirmed
From what he told in GameFAQs (with no source...)

Banned:
 * Dark Armed Dragon
 * Future Fusion

Limited:
 * Grapha, Dragon Lord of Dark World
 * Hieratic Dragon of Tefnuit
 * Inzektor Centipede
 * Rescue Rabbit
 * Constellar Ptolemys Messier 7
 * Evolzar Laggia
 * Wind-Up Zenmaighty

Semi-Limited
 * Inzektor Hornet
 * Tour Guide from the Underworld
 * Book of Moon
 * Mystical Space Typhoon
 * Mirror Force
 * Skill Drain

Unlimited
 * Scapegoat

His topic:

-- i  F  r  e  d  C  a  t  13:29, July 7, 2012 (UTC)


 * What would make them not even try to hit Lightpulsar and REDMD? I don't think DAD did that much, it was easy to summon, but only because Lightpulsar banished stuff from the grave. Also, is there a point to M7 being hit? It's easy to summon, but you can't use it's effect if you summon it using a Xyz Monster as a material. Also, is there a point to hitting Skill Drain? I know the card sucks when used against you, but it's used mostly in stuff like Anti-Meta decks, which don't always top. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  13:40, July 7, 2012 (UTC)


 * That's why I asked him for a source of why he think of that. -- i  F  r  e  d  C  a  t  13:41, July 7, 2012 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I was about to add that there was no source, but we had a editing conflict, xD. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  13:42, July 7, 2012 (UTC)


 * It was you who got an edit conflict - I posted quicker, but no worry. And I had a feeling about Rescue Rabbit being limited from the start once I laid my finger on the real exist card of him - ever played a deck with only one copy included and I would guess it right. -- i  F  r  e  d  C  a  t  13:44, July 7, 2012 (UTC)

And we are expected to belive this list? Not a chance sir.--LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 13:50, July 7, 2012 (UTC)


 * That's why I wish to get him to confirm the source first. You can see it at bottom of the topic I posted in here. (His topic: [1]) -- i  F  r  e  d  C  a  t  13:57, July 7, 2012 (UTC)

I already saw it. Looks horrible, and still the users talk as its real.--LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 14:33, July 7, 2012 (UTC)


 * One user "CM1772PF" told me off that I should know better than this. Where's his goddamn manner? -- i  F  r  e  d  C  a  t  15:09, July 7, 2012 (UTC)


 * Lol, i saw his comment. he is kinda retarded.--LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 15:30, July 7, 2012 (UTC)


 * I got your back there Fred. Just posted under my old GameFAQs alias sano10001. Djjomon (talk • contribs) 16:11, July 7, 2012 (UTC)


 * You really should know better than this, Fred. It is not an official list, it was a suggested list created by Nauske to garnish discussion. He makes them often. --Golden Key (talk • contribs) 17:26, July 10, 2012 (UTC)

WCQ Results
Just found out that Wind-Ups took first place in both the American and European WCQs. Chaos dragons took 3rd-4th in America. This makes me think Wind-Ups will be hit hard in September. Djjomon (talk • contribs) 04:27, July 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * they had it coming.--LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 10:38, July 11, 2012 (UTC)


 * Maybe they will, or maybe people just weren't really prepared for them, and forgot they still exist. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  21:23, July 11, 2012 (UTC)


 * You give Konami too much credit. They see this deck win 2 WCQs they'll go March 2012 plants on Wind-Ups as-... keys... (Though I have been meaning to read that article, despite it just being released today.) Djjomon (talk • contribs) 05:00, July 12, 2012 (UTC)

Hieratic
I just Hope that Konami doesn't screw Hieratic players over. the OTK can be stopped without harming hieratics bad by more than 1 way, either limiting REDMD or limiting Atum or both. because Hieratics really CAN be a good deck with the Level 8 version or a Stun deck using photon streak bounzer.--LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 20:09, July 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * They probably will just hit either REDMD/Atum, I doubt they would hit more than that, unless it becomes an issue later. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  22:48, July 12, 2012 (UTC)

Things that can go Down the list?
I think that 141 has a good chance to go into 2. spore,substitoad,glow-up bulb and mind master are all banned now. this can go back to 2 to assist small decks like fortune ladies, morphtronics, infernities and piper based decks.--LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 08:34, July 13, 2012 (UTC)


 * Maybe, but we still have Mystic Piper? -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  14:43, July 13, 2012 (UTC)

Meh, piper is not dangerous. Piper chaos is not competetive anyways and it would be fun to see some of those topping. LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 15:28, July 13, 2012 (UTC)


 * Piper Chaos took 4th in a YCS... Djjomon (talk • contribs) 16:26, July 13, 2012 (UTC)

Sept 1, 2012 banlist predictions

 * Black luster solider solider envoy of the beginning~ should be banned too broken. It wins games by itself.
 * Mind control ~ Banned. With xyz monsters out, players have a lot of options.
 * Sangan~ Banned. Players can search out anything including tour guide from the underworld.
 * Wind up hunter~ Banned. Players abuse this card to perform hand loops prevent their opponent from retaliating.
 * Dark hole~ Banned. Obvious reason.
 * Evolsaur laggia~ limited. This is a solemn on legs. Next turn it spells game very quickly. Players set as much backrow as they want without any worries.
 * Inzektor dragonfly~ limited. Too broken. Keeps the inzektor loop going.
 * Pot of avarice~ Banned. Wind ups can still loop repeatedly with this card.
 * Snoww, unlight of dark world~ semi limit
 * gates of dark world~ limit. Too broken adds a lot of draw power.
 * Future fusion~ Banned. Sets up plays for otk's. Also abused in hero decks.
 * Monster reborn~ Banned. obviously too broken.
 * Wind up carrier zenmaity~ semi limited. Players spam this card to repeatedly perform the wind up hand up.
 * Wind up carrier zenmaines ~ semi limited.This card is a little broken.
 * Agent of mystery earth~ unlimited. Players will run 1 copy anyway because of 2 to 3 effect veilers used in top tier decks.
 * T.G striker ~ unlimited. No t.gs are broken.
 * Brionac dragon of the ice barrier ~ Banned. This card is abused in infernity, dark world, and fables perform otk's. Still too broken. Has too many loops. This card benefits in many decks like blackwing gale the whirlwind.
 * Tour guide of the underworld ~ limited. 3 is too broken. Sets up plays for broken rank 3 xyz monsters.
 * Goyo guardian ~ limited. This card is not that good anymore. Konami want to promote xyz monsters. This sets up plays for xyz summons.
 * Rescue rabbit ~ semi limited.
 * Red eyes darkness metal dragon ~ limited. Players abuse this card by destroying light pulsar dragon to get REDMD back to their hands.
 * Light pulsar dragon ~ semi limit. Players loop with this card to get level 5 dark monsters.
 * Inzektor hornet ~ semi limit.
 * Miracle fusion ~ limit. Royal oppression ~ limited.
 * Skill drain ~ limited.
 * Inzektor exa beetle ~ limited.


 * A lot of what you want to do makes no sense to us. We like Dark Hole and Monster Reborn, people will run 3 Earth, not 1, because guess what, they have a better chance of drawing it at 3 than at 1, same for Striker! Tour Guide at 1 dose almost nothing, and becomes too situation, semi is better. Goyo guardian is still pretty bad, it has a high ATK for a quick Level 6 Synchro, which is pretty easy to do if Striker and Earth are unlimited! Brionac, is a 1-1 kinda of card, not to mention it has fairly weak ATK. Oppression will probably never come back, as it's too broken, small cost for game-breaking negations. Exa-Beetle is kinda random, it doesn't really have an effect on the game. Why limit Skill Drain? It's an Anti-Meta card, and Anti-Meta doesn't really win YCS. Laggia doesn't need a hit, as the only deck that rapidly summons it are Dino-Rabbit, Evols and Jurrac take time to summon him, in which case you can prepare to stop him. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  19:45, July 13, 2012 (UTC)

Well for me TGU should just go to 1..maybe thats situational but it goes directly for rank 3, gives you pluses and its goes almost to EVERY deck,its just a thought since this card was devstating for the previous format and this one too since all top Meta decks were using this (excluding inzektors but that wasnt a need since they could go for rank 3 so easily) the truth is that even at 2 isnt that bad but i have to hate this card -.- --Tupac1971ful (talk • contribs) 21:20, July 13, 2012 (UTC)


 * Tour Guide to one means it will only be played in Fiend decks, no one would run it just to search Sangan alone. They wouldn't even use it with Tour Bus, because what if they drew Bus first? 2 Is balanced I think. Then using it to search Sangan leaves a useless one in the deck, unless you can get the first one back into the deck. So it would search itself for a rank 3 and that's it. It would definitely see less play.


 * Goyo I could see coming back as synchros decline. But it's no guarantee.


 * Skill Drain, though, IS used for YCS. Remember when HEROs topped? They used 2 Skill Drains to put even more pressure on the opponent, without losing their Gemini Spark, Miracle Fusion, or Super Poly Support. Skill Drain also let Dark Worlds win. Djjomon (talk • contribs) 21:52, July 13, 2012 (UTC)

Very bad list. You basicly want the t.g. Agent format back. Brio can't be used with dark world. Exa beatle doesn't see any play. Also, If you ban hunter you leave zenmaity. Zenmaines is OK as nobody Gets 2 anyways. Laggia limit doesn't do anything to dino rabbit. Avarice is good at 1. Dark hole and reborn are good where they are. Future fusion isn't enough to hit chaos dragons. LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 22:30, July 13, 2012 (UTC)


 * Well, on Skill Drain, yeah it is an issue, but I'm saying not used in HERO, if the issue is with HERO, hit HERO, I think hitting Skill Drain is unfair, although maybe it could go to 2, 1 is really unfair. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  22:44, July 13, 2012 (UTC)

Moja619's Predictions
Banned

Brionac, Dragon of the Ice Barrier some people believe it's too broken, and they may be right

Sangan i really believe its time has come, it's just too broken, especially since the release of Tour Guide from the Underworld

Heavy Storm we already have MST, Dust Tornado and Malevolent Catastrophe, and we just received Storm and Night Beam, that's enough spell/trap destruction

Mind Control can easily lead to a synchro or xyz summon when used at the right time

Inzektor Hornet inzektors are very powerful even with just one hornet, so...

Five-Headed Dragon people say "ban Future Fusion", but FF is needed to boost lower tier decks like Heroes, Gem-Knights or Worms, so ban this card instead

Wind-Up Hunter no more Wind-up Loop

Limited

Shien's Smoke Signal why was this card semi'd again?

Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon easily special summoned, can summon a dragon each turn, is an important part of the Hieratic OTK

Miracle Fusion if Heroes get hit, this card might be the victim

Semi-Limited

T.G. Striker or The Agent of Mystery - Earth i think T.G. Agents were hit too hard, semi-limiting one of these two should help enough

Rescue Rabbit if Sangan is banned, this could be semi'd, otherwise this should be limited

Snoww, Unlight of Dark World i feel that Dark Worlds should be hit a little

Unlimited

Spore not as splashable as Glow-Up Bulb, and Synchrocentric Decks are now weaker with Trishula gone and Tengu semi'd

Level Limit - Area B Gravity Bind is unlimited, this could follow

Your thoughts? --Moja619 (talk • contribs) 03:02, July 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * Highly unlikely list... Xerdek! 03:13, July 14, 2012 (UTC)

I feel like they A) Wouldnt ban Brionac since it just got 2 reprints, and B) Without Trish, a lot of the synchro fanbase dwindled.

Maybe Sangan. But I dont think so. Sangan helps EVERYONE in every deck. It is definately abused by Tour Guide, but Tour Guide is abused by everyone else. Plus, i like the idea of Semi-limiting Tour Guide and Rabbit myself, which would make sangan more necessary to keep the deck balanced without killing it. With the exception of Agents, no one likes to see a deck die completely.

Hornet and Hunter - I repeat, no one liked to see a deck die completely. Id say limit Hunter and Limit Dragonfly while leaving Hornet alone

Five-Headed - I feel like this is going to be one of those cards that Konami will keep around despite all of the trouble it's gotten us into. They wont touch Future Fusion either. Id predict that they semi or maybe even limit Lightpulsar. That would balance the deck out imo IF Im right and they dont ban Five-Headed

Heavy Storm - ehh I was sad when this came back to replace Trunade (R.I.P.), but no one runs traps anymore anyway. Id rather have Heavy Storm at 1, than have Gravekeepers in the meta...

Agent Earth should go to 2 while Striker stays at 1. It's less splashable.

In addition to my previous comment about Rabbit and Tour Guide, I think putting Leviare at 2 would finish off the balancing of that deck...along with priority being gone.

Level Limit B - unlimited because who cares.

Marshmallon - unlimited because the meta pops and piereces as a standard nowadays

No that's pretty much it - handiquacks

Thedarkdoor (talk • contribs) 03:49, July 14, 2012 (UTC)thedarkdoor


 * Are you kidding? wind-ups already use 1 hunter.Earth is good at 1. Konami won't ban unneeded cards, so FHD will stay. future fusion IS the broken part. Semi Lightpulsar is not enough as a hit. i am sorry but only solution to dino rabbits is to BAN rabbit. konami needs to understand the fact that any card that gives you easy instant access to your deck is broken.--LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 07:32, July 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * By that logic all tutors are broken. And Future Fusion isn't the broken part. Many chaos dragons opt not to use it as it is only good early to early-mid game. And limiting rabbit would be a solution to Dino Rabbit. They would absolutely have to rely on Leviar to reuse rabbit. This would make Dino Rabbit as a deck itself inconsistent and therefore not "Tier 1." Djjomon (talk • contribs) 14:40, July 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * No, most Chaos Dragon builds that top at YCS and stuff use Future Fusion. Just look at the 3rd place WCQ duelist, he used Future Fusion. Why would Leviair need to be hit? I don't think people run more than 2 Leviair in Dino-Rabbit, 3 just seems excessive. Signal was hit a little too hard, Sams became slower, so Konami had it Semi-Limited to give a boost to Sam players, also it's better than having Shi-En Semi-Limited. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  14:55, July 14, 2012 (UTC)

Shiens smoke signal was semi limited again because it's not powerfull enough to be limited. It isn't very ban-worthy at all so it is fine at 2.

matthew.lightbody@talktalk.net (talk • contribs) 16:21, July 14, 2012 (UTC)

if you look at the history of the metagame you will find that most tier 1 decks used a card that gave you an almost free special summon from your deck. Frog OTK -substitoad-, Dino rabbits -guess who-, Synchro cat -Rescue Cat-, Wind-up -Zenmaity-, Fish OTK - Colecanath-, Inzektors -Dragonfly-, Hieratics -Atum-. See?--LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 08:09, July 15, 2012 (UTC)

The Fish OTK was stopped by hitting Fishborg Blaster, not Colecanath. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  14:18, July 15, 2012 (UTC)

Just wanted to mention why I think Sangan should be banned. I believe that Sangan joining Witch of the Black Forest on the banned list would give Konami the opportunity to release weaker, watered-down versions of both Sangan and Witch. They've done the samedthing with other banned cards. I can see the new versions being one level less than their counterparts (thereby rendering the new Sangan incompatible with Tour Guide). And their effects could be something like "When this card on the field is destroyed and sent to the Graveyard: Add 1 monster with 800 ATK/DEF from your Deck to your hand." That means monsters like Tour Guide, Inzektor Dragonfly, Dark Armed Dragon and the Monarchs can't be searced. Also, they wouldn't have their effect triggered if they are used as Synchro/Fusion/Ritual material.

That's just what I think could happen.

--Moja619 (talk • contribs) 00:56, July 16, 2012 (UTC)

-- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  03:20, July 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) Sangan can't search DAD or the Monarchs.
 * 2) Is Sangan really the problem when you think of Inzektors?
 * 3) Why not just Semi-Limit Tour Guide, sure Sangan is still a target, but hitting Sangan is unfair for a lot of decks, because weaker decks can use it to search things they need. It's an unfair hit to everyone.
 * 4) 800 ATK is horrible, there's almost nothing good I could search with that, except for maybe Effect Veiler or something. The replacement should have the exact same search range as the card it's replacing, maybe have less conditions in which it can activate (Thus Missing the Timing), but it should at least have the same search range.


 * A Sangan replacement should also not be DARK/LIGHT. Maybe fire, but with more than 200 Defense. And of course not a level 3 Fiend this time. Djjomon (talk • contribs) 03:29, July 16, 2012 (UTC)

Sangan is not a problem it does not need to be banned because of tourguide. It's tour guide that should be semi limited. It's not searching with sangan that's the problem, the problem is searching for the sangan with tourguide.

matthew.lightbody@talktalk.net (talk • contribs) 10:12, July 16, 2012 (UTC)

Nope. Sangan is good. Semi tourguide will do the trick. Also sangan is balanced enough LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 13:59, July 16, 2012 (UTC)

Redo sept 1 2012 banlist predictions
I want to redo my predictions because my last predictions were terrible. Inzecktor dragonfly ~ limited.Because limiting laggia does not do anything. Wind up hunter~ banned. Mezuki~ semi limited. Zombies are not played at all. They need a boost. Pot of avarice ~ unlimited. This card is hardly used. Light pulsar dragon~ limited. Spore ~ limited. Sychro plants should come back. Destiny draw~ unlimited.Because nobody uses Destiny Heroes. Tour guide from the underworld ~ semi limited. Black luster solider envoy of the beginning ~ Banned. I hope this helps. Sorry for the bad banlist prediction.


 * Unlimiting Avarice would make Synchro Decks a lot stronger, too strong. I run Karakuris and would run at least 2 Avarices if I could, it's that powerful in the deck. I don't know where you were going with saying Limting Laggia doesn't do anything, you didn't place it on any list. And Zombies are a lot stronger than you think. I have a really successful Zombie Deck. Not sure how I feel about Mezuki at a Semi-Limit, they don't really need it but after giving Lightsworns a huge boost, why not? Djjomon (talk • contribs) 01:02, July 17, 2012 (UTC)


 * We still have Brionac, and Mezuki kinda gets abused by Brionac. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  01:31, July 17, 2012 (UTC)


 * Ever tried Xyz Zombies? I have a builed that completley crushed the top tier.if mezuki gets semi'd, i will be more than happy--LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 10:16, July 17, 2012 (UTC)

oh and btw, plants should NEVER come back.--LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 10:18, July 17, 2012 (UTC)

well zombies were really powerful at the early format of the xyz in the TCG when cards like sangan,tengu etc. were activating their effects when detached from an xyz monster..goblin zombie was abused that way bringing rank4 xyz mosnetrs each turn with the effect of zombie master and book of lifes like hell as u werent get any minus since goblin got u pluses..with the change rule i dont see zombies at all but they are really underestimated while they shouldnt.. --Tupac1971ful (talk • contribs) 22:58, July 17, 2012 (UTC)

Great point of potential Tupac. However, with Yugioh as it is right now, you won't know what great decks pop up as top nowadays and if you want zombies to be at top, you can prove it on Duelingnetwork or YCS or WCQ. Fallensilence (talk • contribs) 23:03, July 17, 2012 (UTC)

dragons, and atum
First of all, the chaos dragons are too new to be hit hard, and dark worlds aren't top tier, also how prevalent is the hieratic loop? I've heard nothing about it.

That's because to complete and otk in the hieratic loop, you'll need http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Super-Dreadnought_Gun_Turret_Train_-_Gustav_Max and that is in OCG, but most likely they'll hit one card in Hieratics IF OCG sees the risk in continuing or still wanting to make a profit out of it. Fallensilence (talk • contribs) 06:40, July 17, 2012 (UTC)


 * Gustav max is going to come o TCG soon, and i really hope that konami does not act so stupid and hit some good cards in hieratics like eset/su/nebthet/tefnuit.--LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 10:20, July 17, 2012 (UTC)

Well I highly doubt that just like what they did with the Inzektors, they'll keep it for one format and then hit it at the next format. Fallensilence (talk • contribs) 17:20, July 17, 2012 (UTC)

Possible List....maybe
Banned


 * Future Fusion:Had it coming, be realistic people, konami won't ban unneeded cards and future needed 1 little abuse to get banned.
 * Hornet:either this or limit dragonfly.I prefer this.

Limited
 * Rescue Rabbit: being at 1 will significantly slow rabbits down.
 * Dragonfly: either this or hornet banned. I prefer hornet because this kills the deck straight.
 * REDMD: probably not because konami likes to hit top decks 1 format later.
 * Zenmaighty: the card is good, loops the hand, at 1 it doesn't render wind-ups unplayable. perfect here.
 * Laval Volcano Handmaiden: Molten transmition field + this + rekindling = Quasar but rekindling is needed to help Flamvells who aren't broken so this is the solution.
 * E Emergency call: Heroes are Tier one in IOCG and quite big here.
 * Atum:Maybe and Maybe not.

Semi-Limited
 * Snoww:most likley not. they are not that big but if its a must.
 * One for One: all the broken targets are gone. this card can go to 2 to help morphtronic and fortune ladies.
 * Lightpulsar:just a little more hit to chaos dragons.
 * t.g. Striker:I guess this won't bring Agents back, T.Gs aren't even half a threat.
 * Tour Guide:Obvious, this at 2 damages the splashability of tourguide
 * Molten Transmition field: this card is so good -.- double foolish for lavals.
 * Miracle Fussion: See E-Call.
 * Scapegoat: Who uses this again?

Unlimited
 * Magic Cylinder: Nobody cares about that anymore.
 * Level Limit Area B: Doesn't affect Xyz and nobody cares about stall.
 * Marshmallon: Who cares about stall now?

That might be a good list.--LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 20:23, July 19, 2012 (UTC)

My only issue with One for One is Mystic Piper. Also, I don't think Lavals are that bad even in the OCG, not sure how they stack, but I'll tell you this, they are slow (Even with Molten). They don't have easy access to Rekindling, which means they run Gold Sarc to add speed, which is still fairly slow. Also, seeing as not all the cards are even in the TCG, I doubt they will hit it. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  01:58, July 20, 2012 (UTC)

The only cards I can't agree on is Future Fusion, Rescue Rabbit and the heroes. Future Fusion doesn't have to be hit, more fusions need future fusion, Rescue Rabbit should be weakened at 2 since he's not searchable, the Heroes aren't that top since they haven't topped in any recent tournaments yet, and not quite sure about One for One being Semi limited but that does sound like what Konami would do. Fallensilence (talk • contribs) 16:20, July 20, 2012 (UTC)

Think of it this way for future fusion. Beast decks needed rescue cat, but still it was so powerful and got banned. Tengu helped many decks improve but the abuse just lead to killing it. As for heroes, they are big in ocg, the source of the list. LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 18:46, July 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * Blimey, this discussion is getting long. I think the general consensus is that "Future Fusion" and "Inzektor Hornet" will be banned. I may agree with Hornet, but I'm not sure I can see Future being touched. Yes, it is a big factor in a Chaos Dragon deck, but it is a key card in many decks and could be considered a Semi-Staple in some cases. I was even wondering whether Gravekeeper's would be touched at all. "Gravekeeper's Spy" down to 2? -- Super Sponge!!   18:53, July 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * meh, every now and then they make some infinite loop with future, it needs to stop. GK aren't doing any shit in the meta besides, we are in a max backrow hate format. If the format gets any better, gravekeeper's MIGHT come back. For now, no need to worry. LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 19:13, July 20, 2012 (UTC)

I can't agree with the infinite loop thing for future though. There isn't that much. Still I hope they don't ban it in case you guys are right. Either that or they ban Five Headed which is highly unlikely. Fallensilence (talk • contribs) 19:27, July 20, 2012 (UTC)

Konami won't ban things that are unneccesary, so 5 headed stays. There are some super synchro loops with future fusion. Thats why its broken. Use with Heros for another consistant foolish burial. Geminis could use chaos with it (reveal that 2 gemini fusion, dump a light and a Dark). LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 21:02, July 20, 2012 (UTC)

True Konami would hit anything Synchro related at this point. Still, I highly doubt they'll ban Future Fusion just for that. It's not a main strategy anyways. If anything, it's either Future Fusion or REDMD. Fallensilence (talk • contribs) 23:48, July 20, 2012 (UTC)

I don't see how some people could say FF or FGD shouldn't be banned, it's a mystery to me. How can you NOT ban a card that in the right deck thins your deck by 5-8 cards of your choice (depending on number of Wyverns) while having the possibility of summoning a 5000 beater? It's like Painful Choice just without the adding to your hand (which Wyvern takes care of anyway). I personally hope FGD is banned, but when you think about it this shit will just happen again later on with FF. There was a HERO Quasar deck that relied on it (adding it to hand with Synchro Fusionist) but that got hit with GUB and Spore being banned, if they come back it might be a problem, especially since konami hates synchros. 124.185.79.184 (talk) 04:00, July 21, 2012 (UTC)

True about Five-Headed but if you kill Five-Headed, it's going to kill lots of other dragon decks as well so Konami will really have to think things through about this one. And the reason why Glow-Up Bulb and Spore was banned because it's an instant +1 from the graveyard and Synchroccentrics were topping so they ended it along with Fairies by limiting Agent and T.G.s by limiting Striker. Fallensilence (talk • contribs) 04:21, July 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * Err, nope Fallen. T.Gs were never a threat. what made agents even bigger was T.g. Agent, adding in the T.G. engine speeds up the deck hard. so it was a must. but the penalty was that pure t.g. decks lost one of their BEST cards.--LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 09:29, July 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * T.G stopped being a threat when Xyz started to show up, and even so, some Quasar decks run them. I don't think Atum gets hit. Well if REDMD get limited, Atum will have less value... Rescue Rabbit...It might be limited or semi limited. If it gets semi limited, i bet leviar will be limited. I agreed with your opinion about inzektors, maybe you should talk more about Wind-ups, Zenmaighty is not the only problem. I don't know about Laval =/ Haven't seen a lot of players that use them. Expect ones who want to get quasar. About the stall, you can forget that a lot of people run Final Countdown decks.-- Laggia Will Lag You (Talk)  10:32, July 21, 2012 (UTC)

meh, zenmaity at 1 stops the loop, wind-ups are good that way.lavals are so badass when they get quasar. their turn is activate transmittion field, dump 1 handmaiden 1 cannoneer. handmaiden>handmaiden>handmaiden>cannoneer. rekindling summoning all that. syncing for librarian and lavalval dragon to clear threats then summon boost warrior and tune with last handmaiden for formula, draw 2 then go quasar. all from 3 cards.--LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 11:16, July 21, 2012 (UTC)

Prediction for 2012 September bannlist
Banned

Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the beginning  (OP)

Tour guide from the underworld  (To OP)

Future fusion  (It's extreme and it's basiclly a pre-OTK)

Limited

Rescue Rabbit  (Dino Rabbit deck is to powerful)

Wind-up Hunter (Wind-Ups are to powerful)

Inzektor Hornet (Slows them down and the deck itself doesn't become OP)

Red Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon (The card is absolutely to good at 3)

Wind-Up Zenmaines (The Monster has an extremely powerful effect and you can't get rid of the card easily)

Evolzar Laggia (The card can be summoned many times and it's effect is a Solemn Judgment)

Semi-Limited

Book of Moon (Good for the game)

Grapha, Dragon Lord of Dark World (It's ok at 2)

Blackwing - Kalut the moon shadow (BW could get some boost)

Unlimited

Magic Cylinder (It's not a staple card and it's not really played much)

Level Limit Area - B  (There's no reason for it to be at 2)

Reborn Tengu (Nothing will happen if it goes back to 3, plants are already hit and PoA is limited)

Sept 1 2012 rumored leaked banlist discussion
Supposedly, the real sept 2012 banlist was leaked. Partially leaked anyway. It seems too early to think its real.I need konami to confirm that was real banlist leaked. The sept 1 2012 banlist was partially leaked in a photo of the ocg banlist. The supposed leaked list partially contains the following: Banned~ black luster soidier envoy of the beginning. Limited: Inzektor dragonfly & Destiny hero- disk commander. Semi limited ~ Rescue rabbit & blackwhirwind. Unlimited ~ Honest, destiny draw, & magical stone excavation.


 * Yes, I'm sure the list was leaked half a month early, and I'm sure they're really going to limit Disk Commander, and I bet Konami are gonna e-mail you personally to confirm it's real.--YamiWheeler (talk • contribs) 01:05, July 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * 2 issues with that. First: too short list. 2nd: highly unlikely list. 3 Honest? seriously? and disk commander defines the word broken. 3 CotH, 3 limit reverse, 3 Graceful Revival, 3 Kinka byo. if this happens, almost all players will play piper chaos.--LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 09:41, July 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * Thats got to be fake. Unlimited Honest is way too OP; limiting dragonfly does sound right, but that won't slow down Inzektors much. Disk commander is way too powerful to even come back to 1. 2.126.180.53 (talk) 09:53, July 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * Oh yeah, unlimited Honest definitely means this is real. And limited Disk Commander. This list is certainly real guys, what are you complaining about? 108.196.206.15 (talk) 11:52, July 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * ^Sarcasm alert up there.--LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 13:06, July 22, 2012 (UTC)

2nd Banlist Prediction by Me
Well, after i think 3-4weeks of observation, I came up with this list. Some are still the same, and I think I just added and removed cards. Note: Don't be confused if I contradict myself. I like arguing with myself. :D

FORBIDDEN


 * Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning - New to my List. This needs to go back where it belongs.


 * Future Fusion - Still in my, and I think everyone's list.


 * Ultimate Offering - New to my List. One time I played with Gadget-Offerings, and he only payed 2 500's to OTK me. He can only pay 2 500's because his LP is 1400. :(


 * Reinforcement of the Army - Same comment as Future Fusion.

LIMITED


 * Rescue Rabbit - Same comment as Future Fusion.


 * Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon - Same as Future Fusion.


 * Inzektor Dragonfly - Now, instead of Hornet, I think THIS should go to the list, unless both of them will make it to the list.


 * Mystical Space Typhoon - Not new to my List, but IF they hit this, they really should hit Ultimate Offering.


 * Wind-Up Carrier Zenmaity - Everybody hates the Wind-Up Loop. Even the users of Wind-Up Deck hates it. LOL.


 * Wind-Up Rat - Now, In my previous list, I said either Rat or Zenmaighty will get hit. Now, they made it to my list.


 * Tour Guide From the Underworld - Just in TCG I guess.

SEMI-LIMITED


 * Effect Veiler - Not new in my list.


 * The Agent of Mystery - Earth - Poor agent needs to be faster. This won't affect much anyways. It's like when they return Shien's Smoke Signal to 2.


 * Lonefire Blossom - Everybody knows why. :)


 * The Gadgets - reffering to Yellow, Green, Red. But this won't happen if they really hit Ultimate Offering. Either this 3 or Ultimate Offering.

Jampong (talk • contribs) 12:19, July 23, 2012 (UTC)

Why do you always make lists that destroy decks? Why rat? also lonefire can summon very large things so its good at 1 and ban offering? Lol what now?Also if you got OTK'd randomly you dont expect konami to kill gadgets right?--LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 13:56, July 23, 2012 (UTC)

Gadgets aren't topping, and therefore they and Ultimate Offering will be untouched. Reinforcement of the Army does not deserve a ban, and I haven't seen anybody else consider banning it. Tour Guide from the Underworld would be fine semi-limited. Also if you're limiting 1 of Wind-Up Carrier Zenmaity or Wind-Up Rat, the other should go untouched. 108.196.206.15 (talk) 19:58, July 23, 2012 (UTC)

My Yugioh Banlist September 2012 Preditions
Forbidden
 * Future Fusion (helps a lot on chaos dragon deck, and you can easly put monsters in your deck to graveyard and there are some decks where this really helps, like Chimera fortress dragon and Worm)

Limited
 * Wind-Up Carrier Zenmaity (Stop the dawm wind-up loop)
 * Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon (Easy to summon and it works so well on chaos dragon for OTK)
 * Inzektor Hornet (maybe this card limited its enough to stop the inzektors loop of destroying card on the field. But for now maybe just limited, then maybe become forbidden)

Semi-limited
 * Black Whirlwind (im not sure about this predition card, can be easly destroyed by MST, but if you have 2 of this card in first hand you can get 2 blackwing monsters at once. So im not sure)
 * Rescue Rabbit (Like rescue cat, but just a little worst, maybe its time to limited this card. but 1st semi-limited.)
 * E-Emergency Call (the same reason from cards like Shien's Smoke Signal or Emergency Telport, since HERO deck have been played on the lasts tournments)
 * BlackWing – Kalut The Moon Shadow (Just give an extra 1400 atk points on blackwing monster, and this card its not a tuner monster, so maybe they put this card semi-limited on this banlist)
 * Infernity Launcher (No one has been play with infernity on the lasts tournments, and can be easly destroyed with MST since the new rule of priority has been change. Isn't it?)
 * Neo-Spacian Grand Mole (maybe its not so good enough for being limited anymore, since there are so many cards that can stop this card and since this card return to your hand what makes other Grand mole in your hand usefull. This card reminds me something like Treeborn frog when it was limited.)

Unlimited
 * Necro Gardna (this card its not a threat, even on lightsworns decks, and just stop 1 attk. Why they put this card even limited in the past forbidden lists?)
 * Tragoedia (i think even if this card became unlimited, normally, people just put 1 tragoedia in a main deck (max 2), so maybe there is no reason to be semi-limited)
 * Marshmallon (no one has been use this card, exept burn decks, and since his effect its trigger effect its easy to be stoped)
 * Glow-up Bulb (many synchro monsters have been unplayable, since this card become forbidden)
 * Spore (GUB same reason)
 * Limit level Area-B (its not a threat any more since most of players have been use XYZ Monters, and like any countinous card its a easy target for MST)

Thanks folks and sorry about my bad english.

By javo10:

September 2012 ban list:

BANNED: WInd-up hunter Future fusion Black luster soldier envoy of the beginning

Limited:Dragged down into the grave inzektor dragonfly red eyes darkness metal dragon Evolsaur laggia( RAbbit isnt the problem but the xyz's it makes) Snoww, unlight of darkworld Super polymerization leviar sea dragon trishula dragon of the ice barrier

Semi-limited: T.G striker The agent of Earth light pulsar dragon Mystical space typhoon blackwing gale or blackwing whirldwind Non-limited: Marshmallon Shien's smoke signal( E-hero call is at 3, so why not?)

That's basically it, this is my banlist that would the game much more balanced now and more decks playable, tell me what you guys think.

My list:

Forbidden
 * Future Fusion
 * Black luster soldier envoy of the beginning
 * Brioniac, Dragon of the Ice Barrier
 * Rescue Rabbit (possibly limited)

Limited
 * Wind-Up Carrier Zenmaity
 * Inzektor Hornet
 * Effect Veiler
 * Ultimate Offering
 * Giant Trunade
 * Tour Guide from the Underworld
 * Evolsaur laggia
 * Leviar sea dragon

Semi-limited
 * Call of the Haunted

Unlimited
 * Primal Seed

Let me know your opinion, greetings!!


 * Konmai will probably never put both Trunade and Heavy in the same format. Why Call of the Haunted? People really didn't use it at 2, and most people don't use 3 if at all. Brio is a -1 card every time you use his effect, plus he's a -1 to summon. He's only really a problem with Zombies, but after that, he's just a monster that can win games, but isn't broken. Also, hitting Evolsaur Laggia hurts Evols and to a lesser extent Jurracs. Also, it's not fair to Evols or Jurracs, they take a few turns to throw down Laggia, and don't have the ability to summon a Laggia first turn. Ultimate Offering doesn't need to get hit or even move up, it's fine at 2. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  17:57, July 24, 2012 (UTC)


 * It does hurt Evol T.T I don't know if Laggia will get limited. With Solda around, Evol players have more choices to play what kind of cards they want. I mean at the start of the duel, we (Evol Player's) don't know what is our opponent using. So for protection, we tend to go for Solda first, in case our opponent uses Rabbit or Inzektors. And best part is, we only need 2 Dolkka and 1 Solda, and yet Solda is one of the favorite cards in the deck. So i doubt that Laggia will get limited.-- Laggia Will Lag You (Talk)  18:08, July 24, 2012 (UTC)


 * Primal seed unlimited?? there's a reason it was limited as soon as BLS came back. The ability to continually recycle absolutely anything when combined with macro cosmos. sparks ftk anyone??? Chewbacca The Drummer (talk • contribs) 19:33, July 29, 2012 (UTC)

Banned: idk. I doubt future fusion is going anywhere. 'zektors probably aren't hitting full banned, neither will Wind-ups I don't think too many things are going in here on this list.

Limited: I can see REDMD here, but I'd RATHER see Pulsar. Atum. Mabye part of the wind-up loop Right, forgot. BLS

Semi-Limited: Mabye Rabbit. Mabye Red-Eyes

Unlimited: No comment. S1L3N7_N1GH7S 18:39, July 24, 2012 (UTC)

Lists September 2012
My List

Banned:


 * Gay Luster Homo - Envoy of the Faggots (wins by himself)


 * Future Fusion (cha hoes dragons use it and OTK decks Chimeratech overdragon)

Limited:


 * Dragged down in to the grave (*sets all spell cards looks in your hand discards one one heavy storm or any other good card from your hand discards a DW monster get the effect and draw a card)


 * Rescue Rabbit (we all know why)


 * Inzektor Dragonfly (Limiting Hornet and the players will add more armageddon knights and cards to search hornet so limiting dragonfly will slow down the deck)


 * Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Faggot (no Hieratic OTK and cha hoes dragons)


 * Dark Magician of Cha Hoes (dunno hes not that broken anymore)


 * Super Poly ( its too good hard too negate it heros use your monster to get a stronger one)


 * Wind-up Rat (stop the loop)

Semi Limtited:


 * Tour Guide (staple in almost every deck easy xyz summoning 2 are enough)


 * E emergency call( at least semi)


 * Rekindling (at least semi they are top in the OCG semi limit before they start getting top)


 * Lightpulsar Dragon (way too easy to summon gets your dragons from grave)


 * Agent of Mystery Earth (too hard hit for agents)


 * Messenger of Peace (also affects xyz the cost is like nothing)

Unlimited:


 * Level Limit Area B (no one cares about stalling avoid this card with xyz)


 * Reborn Tengu (Plants are not played)


 * Why do people here LOVE to hate on Decks? Limiting Rat IS Murdering Wind-ups which is obviously a bad thing. Agents had it coming so don't ask for 2 Earth and besides, they are still somehow powerful. Tengu will NOT get to 3, its very annoying. Rekindling Hurts flamvell. Limiting Handmaiden is alot better. LEAVE BLS ALONE, it helps some weak decks have a good topdeck, and by the way, it had not affected the meta that much YES he was played in many decks but he wasn't that hell of a win condition.--LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 09:33, July 25, 2012 (UTC)


 * Ghost is right, Agents did have it coming, Limiting Handmaiden will hurt Laval, but it's not as bad as hitting Rekindling. Plus, it's possible to replace Handmaiden with another tuner of some kind, not as good as 3 Handmaiden, but I'd rather have Handmaiden than nothing at all. -- - Dark Ace SP  ( Talk )  19:56, July 25, 2012 (UTC)

I wouldn't agree with BLS because it'll be too soon to limit him anyways. Super Poly is a meh because Heroes isn't exactly that top. Dark Magician of Chaos....is never coming back because getting one spell in the graveyard that easily is a game changer. What I like to see banned or limited is hornet (everyone does) because even if Dragonfly is limited, any summon with Inzektors will let an instant destroy one. Fallensilence (talk • contribs) 18:57, July 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * HERO is an issue in the OCG, as they have all the Omni HERO Fusions, so Super Poly is live no matter what, and as such hits to HERO to help the OCG will also be given to the TCG. Dark Magiican of Chaos can't some back the Spellbooks are going to be released and Spellbook of Life is a unlimited Monster Reborn with a light cost for Spellcasters, so he's never coming back. I think limiting Hornet is the best thing to do, and maybe followed by another Semi-Limit to Dragonfly. It leaves the deck playable, but not have a 98+% chance of killing stuff over and over. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  01:47, July 30, 2012 (UTC)

My Predictions/Thoughts
Let me know if these predictions are terrible... 108.196.206.15 (talk) 15:45, July 31, 2012 (UTC) Forbidden Limited Semi-Limited No Longer On List
 * Wind-Up Hunter - Hand loops are somewhat of a special case.
 * Future Fusion - I kind of wish this didn't have to happen, but most agree.
 * Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon - Gets more and more broken as more powerful dragons are released, hurts Hieratic OTK.
 * Dark Magician of Chaos - Why not? Konami might want to promote the Prophecy... maybe one of the "Big Three" Monster Reborn/Dark Hole/Heavy Storm should be banned first?
 * Inzektor Centipede - Hurts the Inzektor loopiness.
 * Rescue Rabbit - Hit to Dino Rabbits.
 * Super Polymerization - If this happens it should hit HEROs well enough, along with Future Fusion.
 * Plaguespreader Zombie - Why the heck not? Our plant tuners are gone. Konami might not want to promote Synchros though.
 * Inzektor Dragonfly - Hits Inzektors, this at two and Centi at one leaves Inzektors still playable, but not quite as insane I hope?
 * Tour Guide from the Underworld - Quite powerful and splashable.
 * Lightpulsar Dragon - Chaos Dragons...
 * Advanced Ritual Art - Why not?
 * Wind-Up Factory - Maybe just to hit Wind-Ups in a way aside from removing the annoying hand loop.
 * Rekindling - Abuse by Lavals/Flamvell, no cost.
 * Level Limit - Area B - They're obviously planning on doing this.
 * Scapegoat - It's a possibility, wouldn't bet my last dollar on it though.
 * Marshmallon - Seems to be traveling the same route as Spirit Reaper.


 * Nah... I doubt Dark Magician of Chaos gets unbanned. Planguespreader Zombie, stays like it is, You can't forget that we still get Synchros from V-Jumps Magazines and stuff like that, and eventually will get passed to the TCG. I kinda think that if Super poly gets hit, it will be only on Semi-limited. -- Laggia Will Lag You (Talk)  16:32, July 31, 2012 (UTC)

Added some more cards to this list (new ones in italics). @Nexus - DMoC probably won't come back, but some people want it and I feel as if Konami made Temperance of Prophecy just for this sometimes... as for Plaguespreader, I still think there's a chance of him coming up now that they've almost killed Synchros. 108.196.206.15 (talk) 21:53, July 31, 2012 (UTC)


 * They may want to promote the Prophecy, but the Prophecy themselves should be able to do that. They're a group of cards, that works really well, plus High Priestess can be a +1 as soon as she hits the field, plus with killer support in the next booster after REDU, High Priestess sets up a situation in which you can gain lots of advantage, but not through killing a bunch of cards. At the same note, too many good spells to reuse in the Prophecy with him in the mix, plus Spellcasters have gained a monster reborn, so he's not coming back. Plus, does it make sense to limit a card that makes Staples reusable for just Spellcaster decks, but no one else gets that benefit and then has to fight through 2 Dark Hole or Heavy Storm? Does that sound fair? -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  22:18, July 31, 2012 (UTC)


 * Doesn't really sound fair I guess, but neither does FIRE monsters getting derpy +4 cards, or Dragons getting REDMD... list goes on. Not to say you didn't make a good point though, I'm leaning more towards him not returning now. So... anybody have comments on any other aspect of the list? 108.196.206.15 (talk) 22:25, July 31, 2012 (UTC)

Are the other you put in the list unbanned (ex. Change of heart, Thousand-eyes reestirt)?

Whoops my name 74.139.22.168 (talk) 13:59, August 1, 2012 (UTC)Andrew


 * Um... what? I was just putting predictions/thoughts for stuff that could be new to the Forbidden/Limited/Semi-Limited/Unlimited spots on the list in September. I don't know why you think I want Change of Heart and TER unbanned, can you explain? 108.196.206.15 (talk) 14:35, August 1, 2012 (UTC)


 * Future Fusion isn't going banned! It's the cards themselves. Duh. DUH. C'mon people! C'MON. Think! Future Fusion mainly got limited because of the Chimeratech Overdragon OTK. It isn't going. Look at the REAL problem. The actual cards themselves. It was fine sending dragons to your grave via Future Fusion for FGD before Eclipse Wyvern decks. And then OTHER cards came along. So, limit the other cards. GAWD! Think guiz! Humans tend to think!


 *  DED  (Leaving Me Messages Are Often Left Here)  00:12, August 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * The problem is in the "actual cards themselves"... the card in question is Future Fusion. What you're saying is like saying that Mass Driver should be unlimited and all monsters should be banned because they have the potential for broken combos with it. The opposite is sometimes true, just like how Mass Driver was the problem, Future Fusion is. 108.196.206.15 (talk) 01:52, August 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * Mass Driver would've been fine at 1. The banlist it got banned at was retarded. Mass Driver banned. Substitoad banned. Fishborg Banned. One limiting them is the smarter thing to do; it just is. But it was obvious that Konami decided to hate water and frog decks all the sudden. Yes it's possible to go for an OTK even with Mass Driver at 1, but not consistently enough for any deck to make a name for itself with. Future Fusion adds to a deck. Like Allure does to dark decks; like Sangan and Veiler do to all decks. Yes, the cards Future Fusion sends to the Grave are retardedly broken. REDMD needs to get 1 limited, and so does Wyvern. Everyone knows Future Fusion sends to the Grave so the monsters can use their effects to Summon them. Which would honestly be fine...if there were any limits towards it. Which is why I'm saying to limit the other cards, not Future Fusion. It was stupid when Konami BANNED Mass Driver; itill be stupid if they ban Future Fusion, even though, based on Konami's thinking, that seems a move they'd do.


 *  DED  (Leaving Me Messages Are Often Left Here)  03:13, August 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * In all honesty, I don't want Future Fusion to get banned because it gives stuff like Worm Zero a chance, but its potential for being used as an indefinite number of Foolish Burials is a problem. Substitoad got banned because it was quite poorly designed, in the right deck you can mill yourself to almost no cards because it has no cost aside from the continually replenished tribute and no "once per turn" restriction. 108.196.206.15 (talk) 11:34, August 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * Once again, Substitoad shouldn't have been banned. One limiting it would've been the right move to do. Sure you only need one to mill for, but the whole point of running 2-3 was for consistency. It wouldn't be a consistent situation for the deck at one. Give the deck a little edge to it. No problem there. Obviously, it's when one card becomes the main reliability of a deck when there's a problem with the actual CARD. And for certain decks; that's how it is with Future Fusion. However, it's those decks that don't win any competitions. Because decks that rely on ONE tactic or ONE card are just always going to be inconsistent, because their cards are too focused on getting to that ONE tactic that you don't have other necessities for dueling, like field advantage, hand advantage, etc. If you see Eclipse Wyvern decks getting high on the charts, blaming it on a one-limited card is ridiculous. If they ban it, then you'll see more Lightsworn hybrids of the deck, and maining Foolish Burial without question.


 *  DED  (Leaving Me Messages Are Often Left Here)  17:00, August 2, 2012 (UTC)

Agreed with DED. Sure it's an instant dump for different kinds of strategies but not enough to create OTK's and you still have times to counters, even if it's Twilight Dragons. There is a reason why Twilight Dragon haven't exactly won YCS first place yet and it's because everyone know how to counter against that deck with ease. Don't hate Future Fusion just because of Twilight Dragons and other dump methods, if anything, keep Future Fusion there. Though in most predictions though, Konami would ban it for Xyz selling purposes. Fallensilence (talk • contribs) 19:47, August 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * The only real Fusion deck being used is HERO, and Future Fusion isn't really used in the TCG versions. But DED makes a point, but I think people in general want Wyvern and Lightpulsar. It makes Dragons actually competitive, Future Fusion doesn't do that much, although now it makes it easy to set up the grave and future searches. So yeah, maybe hit Wyvern to 1/2, Lightpulsar to 2, and REDMD to 1, that handles the main issues, but wouldn't killing Fusion help as well, along with the hits to the others? -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  19:53, August 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * Also just to add, not everyone wants JUST Future to be banned, I think most want Future along with some other cards hit, maybe Wyvern and maybe Lightpulsar. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  19:57, August 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * Don't forget REDMD. Fallensilence (talk • contribs) 20:00, August 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * When you say Twilight Dragon do you mean Chaos Dragon? If so, They've won 2 YCS'. 2.126.180.53 (talk) 20:05, August 2, 2012 (UTC)

Sorry didn't see they won. You're right. Thanks for correcting me. Fallensilence (talk • contribs) 20:11, August 2, 2012 (UTC)

I think I'd settle for REDMD at 1, Lightpulsar at 2, and either Future Fusion at 0 or Eclipse Wyvern and Red-Eyes Wyvern at 1. 108.196.206.15 (talk) 21:36, August 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * Red-Eyes Wyvern should be fine at 3, plus, I don't think Red-Eyes Wyvern has really been used in Chaos Dragons. It's mostly Lightpulsar into REDMD. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  22:29, August 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * Meh, I guess. Still, REDMD, Lightpulsar, and Future Fusion or Eclipse should take hits. 108.196.206.15 (talk) 22:56, August 2, 2012 (UTC)

Most likely Eclipse. It's always the search power that get hit most of the time. Fallensilence (talk • contribs) 23:55, August 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * True, but it's not instant search power like with Elemental HERO Stratos or Reinforcement of the Army, since it has a condition attached, so maybe a Semi-Limit if Lightpulsar and such get hit as well? -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  02:21, August 3, 2012 (UTC)

Konami would be foolish to hit a Hieratic this soon after their release. I mean, they didn't bother to hit the big 3 back in March, so there is no reason for them to do Hieratics now. Besides, it isn't like the deck is even succeeding at doing anything right anyway.

It is definitely time for Rescue Rabbit, Inzektors, and Wind-Ups to be hit though.

It is also time to become friendly to Samurais and Spellcasters again, so they need to unban Dark Magician of Chaos and up the amount on both Shi-En and Gateway.

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 04:49, August 3, 2012 (UTC)

I'm still a little wary about Dark Magician of Chaos though. Sure he's level 8 but a free spell card is pretty dangerous even if it's from the graveyard. And Konami wouldn't hit Hieratics. It's too soon and they'll need their OTK deck of the format. And I don't think bringing back Gateway is a good idea because they can easily search and swarm with Kizan and others so I wouldn't recommend that as well. We'll see what Konami do but I doubt they'll do what we think they'll do. Fallensilence (talk • contribs) 05:14, August 3, 2012 (UTC)

You guys are all idiots =D. Konami doesn't ban what will be broken it bans what is broken. Dino Rabbits inzektor Wind-ups (maybe)

will be hit by the ban list 100%. The reason why I say maybe on wind ups is because konami likes making tier 1 cheap decks and since rabbit is being reprinted I could see windups not being hit.

Dino rabbits and inzektor's are way to powerful and will shut down most newer decks which would make it pointless to buy the new packs since inzektor's and Dino rabbits are better decks.

What do I see being hit?

1.Rabbit

2.Hornet

3.Wind-Up Rat

If they are going to hit wind-ups best way would be to hit carrier or rat to make the deck still workable but not broken.

4.Shooting Quazar dragon - If lava's or whatever they are called get all the support in U.S as they did in japan then konami might ban Quazar to stop a E-Ban list from happening. If you dont know lava's can 1 turn Quazar with 1 card which is completely broken and would be like the Chaos-E decks all over again which would destroy yugioh.

5.Tour Guide From the Under World Semi Limit.

6.Ban Monster Reborn

I'll tell you this. All the Tier 1 decks will get hit by the banlist to make people want to buy packs and make room for the new decks to do well. Because if the ban list worked the other way around then konami wouldn't make money and chaos-E decks will be the only deck topping regional's.

Gam3rsmedia


 * @Gam3rsmedia - Calling us all idiots obviously helps your argument so much. Quasar doesn't need a ban, though you're right that Inzektors, Wind-Ups, and Rabbit need hits. I doubt Rat will go though, I think the best way to do it would be to ban Wind-Up Hunter then apply some sort of limits to 2 (or 1?) of the following: Factory, Zenmaity, or Magician. @DrKain - I dunno about DMoC and Shi-En, they might move up but I'm feeling it's unlikely. Though of all things, Gateway should never move up because if 2 Gateway are on the field, you can search out anything you want whenever you summon a Samurai and pretty much set up any kind of field you would like. 108.196.206.15 (talk) 12:05, August 3, 2012 (UTC)


 * @Kain - What part of Spellcaster decks getting Prophecy and making DMoC a little too good didn't you get? With Spellbook of Life and a few Escape from the Dark Dimension in the Chaos Build, it's madness. Not to mention Temperance of Prophecy summoning him for free. Also, what's up with you wanting Sams back, I know you play Sams, but the simple fact that double Shi-En on turn one is possible, makes it so broken. It makes it impossible to fight back, unless you get a bigger monster out, and 2500 ATK is pretty darn good for a Level 5. -- - Dark Ace SP  ( Talk )  12:13, August 3, 2012 (UTC)

I also hope they hit Dark Worlds at some point. Even if they aren't topping as much but still won one YCS, they can be considered powerful. Hitting Snoww will do the trick. Fallensilence (talk • contribs) 14:28, August 3, 2012 (UTC)

They wont make gateway of the six samurai any less limited, but they could unlimit shiens smoke signal. It's not a very good card in itself, it seems to on the banlist because of qauntity over quality.

matthew.lightbody@talktalk.net (talk • contribs) 16:51, August 3, 2012 (UTC)


 * Six Sams might need a little more, but don't ease up on the ShiEn and Gateways. That's stupid. I mean we obviously see it's a common thing for Warrior-Type to have the best search engines for their decks, and you want to ease up Gateway? It has ENOUGH searchers, PLUS Unlimited Uniteds. Just because stupid Six Sam players always tend to go balls out heavy first turn and then get butthurt when the opponent somehow squeezes through the ShiEn and the Beast/Barkion doesn't mean Sams should be eased on. Used correctly, they clearly have some of the most field control and hand control in the game.


 *  DED  (Leaving Me Messages Are Often Left Here)  19:19, August 3, 2012 (UTC)

I'm disappointed in Shadow of the Six Samurai - Shien though. That's not going to help any otk at this case. Sure it helps gain counters but that's practically it. I'd like to see it top. Fallensilence (talk • contribs) 21:11, August 3, 2012 (UTC)

'''[quote]@Kain - What part of Spellcaster decks getting Prophecy and making DMoC a little too good didn't you get? With Spellbook of Life and a few Escape from the Dark Dimension in the Chaos Build, it's madness. Not to mention Temperance of Prophecy summoning him for free. Also, what's up with you wanting Sams back, I know you play Sams, but the simple fact that double Shi-En on turn one is possible, makes it so broken. It makes it impossible to fight back, unless you get a bigger monster out, and 2500 ATK is pretty darn good for a Level 5. ---Dark Ace SP (Talk) 12:13, August 3, 2012 (UTC) [/quote]'''

Uh, the part that I have no idea what you are even talking about. Prophecy what now? Spell Book?

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 06:02, August 4, 2012 (UTC)

They renamed the Magical archetype Prophecy. They have a monster that if you've activated a book of spell card that turn (or spellbook as they're now called if I'm not mistaken) you can special summon 1 level 5 or higher dark or light spellcaster from your deck. There's another that lets you add one to your hand at the end phase too. 124.185.79.184 (talk) 12:22, August 4, 2012 (UTC)

So how does that have any effect on DMoC? The only reason I want him unbanned is because they unbanned BLS, and then I would have a reason to play Spellcasters again.

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 15:23, August 4, 2012 (UTC)


 * Spellbook of Life acts as a Monster Reborn bringing him back, triggering his effect (There are many ways to get him back from the banished zone as well). Also, have you even taken a look at the Prophecy cards? They're pretty good without DMoC. We'll see, but I don't think he's coming back, because Spellcasters in general are getting an Archetype and some decent support in that archetype. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  17:01, August 4, 2012 (UTC)

Leak?
I don't know if this is fake or not, but here If anyone could care to translate, feel free to it. A thing is for sure, i don't see Laggia name on it.-- Falling Stars and Laggia Will rebirth (Talk)  15:53, August 4, 2012 (UTC)