Forum:July 2014 Banlist Predictions

Opening
Prio just came out today, and we have about two months before the new banlist will be released (July banlist is for the TCG and OCG). I don't really know what to think of the OCG banlist anymore...but my TCG predictions for July 13 are these:

Banned:
 * Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning - Not very likely to happen, but it's one of two ways to kill the Primal Seed Loop (the other being put Primal Seed back to 1).
 * Blaster, Redox, Tempest, and Tidal - I have had enough of this deck. Kill it with fire. It keeps finding a way to win even if you give it the slightest inch of vitality.
 * Necroface - The semi-limit on this card was one of the stupidest moves Konami ever made. If it's not banned then back to 1 at least.
 * Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon - Key card of the Hieratic OTK and allows for too many good combos in other dragon decks as well.
 * Dark Hole - The last of the power spells, while it's losing its staple status, it's still strong enough to warrant a ban.
 * Rekindling - Might as well ban it by now, Lavals can use Soul Charge instead (which I think should be hit as well).
 * Royal Tribute - With all the support Gravekeeper's had in Legacy of the Valiant last January, they don't really need this card anymore. It's a turn 1 win-button like Gateway and Offering, both of which are also banned.

Limited:


 * Bujingi Crane - Bujins have gone on for a while now with no hits, this is the most likely thing to happen to them. If they decide to keep them alive for Worlds in August, this'll likely happen the list after.
 * Dark Magician of Chaos - If Dark Hole and/or Rekindling go, this can almost certainly come back without any issues.
 * Karakuri Shoguns Burei and Bureido - Not as likely, but it's one less OTK combo the game has to deal with.
 * Mermail Abyssteus or Abyss-Sphere - Gunde was the wrong hit for the deck in April, this is what should've happened.
 * Madolche Hootcake - They won't hit Anjelly because it's new and it's not the issue with the deck. While limiting Hootcake won't stop them from searching and reusing it, banning it is probably too harsh.
 * Sinister Serpent - Not as good as it once was.
 * Thousand-Eyes Restrict - TER is no better than number 101 and he could honestly go to 3 at this point, but knowing Konami they'd test him at 1 first.
 * Dragon Ravine - If the 4 Dragon Rulers finally get banned, then this can come back to 1 to assist slower decks like Dragunities.
 * Primal Seed - Again, either this, or ban BLS.
 * Soul Charge - Fairly powerful card, but I wouldn't outright ban it just yet; unlike Reborn, you play LP to use it and you lose your battle phase that turn. I think those restrictions would balance it out at 1.
 * Artifact Sanctum - The key card to Artifact decks, but like Anjelly and Crane, they might leave them as they are until the banlist after worlds.
 * Geargiagear - Slows down Geargias.

Semi-Limited:


 * Dark Armed Dragon - Could come down to 2 like the OCG did, it's not as good as it once was and only rogue decks use it anymore.
 * Debris Dragon - Doesn't need to stay at 1 if the Rulers get banned. It could even come down to 3 like the OCG did.
 * Gladiator Beast Bestiari - Gladiator Beasts do nothing anymore.
 * Neo-Spacian Grand Mole - Not really that good anymore, it needs to attack to get its effect and no one would run it at 2 except rock stun, which is meh.
 * Allure of Darkness - If and only if Necroface gets banned.
 * Reinforcement of the Army - Warrior decks don't do that much anymore.

Unlimited:


 * Burner, Lightning, Reactan, and Stream - If the 4 daddy rulers go, these can come off the list.
 * Magician of Faith - No one runs it anymore because it sucks. To positive infinity.
 * Mermail Abyssgunde - Switch places with Teus and/or Sphere.
 * Advanced Ritual Art - Ritual decks are bad nowadays and unlimiting this won't change that.
 * Gold Sarcophagus - If the Rulers and Necroface go to 0, this can come off the list with no issues.
 * Sacred Sword of Seven Stars - Not run outside of Rulers, which need to be banned.

Whew, that's quite a long list, and while I don't think all of these will happen, worlds is gonna be a mess if the TCG and OCG don't come to an agreement soon. Ninety-eight (talk • contribs) 22:02, May 16, 2014 (UTC)


 * So it begins.
 * Is the Primal Seed loop actually doing things? I complained about it too but forgot to actually check if it was ....well a thing. Faggot Dragons need to die. I would say slow and Painful, but that basically sums up ......their entire history after the first hit. While they deserve it, i don't see artifacts being hit so soon. I wouldn't mind seeing Gunde staying where she is in addition to the Teus and sphere...................Basically i agree with everything but Sinister serpent, a free card is a free card to discard.DreadKaiser (talk • contribs) 22:14, May 16, 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, yeah the Primal Seed loop isn't that consistent, but neither were the loops or OTK's involving Morphing Jars 1 and 2, yet they got banned; I thought TCG Konami wanted to kill all loops regardless of relevance. The Rekindling limit this format was another example of such. My argument on unbanning Serpent remains the same as it always has: one, it's not really infinite discard fodder since it only returns during your standby phase and most effects that discard happen during your main phase, two, decks that could use it like Mermails or Dark Worlds have better things to pitch that get effects immediately when you pitch them, instead of during your next turn, and last but not least, a +1 like Serpent isn't really a +1 unless you can effectively take advantage of it, which most decks can't. Ninety-eight (talk • contribs) 23:00, May 16, 2014 (UTC)

I also think that Bujins should get hit, I mean they have Crane, Honest and now also Sinyou! I thought Blackwings were unbalanced with 3 Kalut but that takes it to a whole new level.

As much as I hate Dragon Rulers, I don't know if I want them to get banned since they can also help non-Dragon decks (i.e. Redox in X-Sabers, Blaster in Laval etc.). IMO they should just errata them, so you can no longer banish Dragons to summon them. This would make them far more balanced and make it impossible to abuse their effects, although I don't think this will happen.

Aside from your suggestions, I really want to see Judgement Dragon to get Limited. Lightsworns will get new support soon (in the TCG, in the OCG they already got it) and will make them even more broken. Hitting the Dragon, and maybe Solar Recharge at 2, will make the Deck more balanced.

--BronzeJohnson (talk • contribs) 15:36, May 23, 2014 (UTC)


 * New support is probably a good reason for them to not hit them.........Who the hell thought JD was a good idea, they should have put a larger cost or make it die to its own effect tooDreadKaiser (talk • contribs) 18:39, May 23, 2014 (UTC)


 * Going by Konami-Logic, hitting JD wouldn't make sense, but it would by a balancing standpoint: As you mentionned, a monster with high ATK and DEF values that is too easy to summon and has an amazing effect, and to top it all off it isn't even limited. And now Lightsworn get a new Bossmonster in the form of Michael.


 * Honestly, Konami should stop sniffing it's own farts and start to adress the numerous balancing issues in the game.
 * --BronzeJohnson (talk • contribs) 19:18, May 23, 2014 (UTC)


 * While JD could be hit, I don't think he will anytime soon. Maybe 2 at most, but 1 or 0 probably isn't going to happen. Also, hitting just Solar Recharge is big enough on it's own and seriously hurts the deck. If Recharge is hit, leave JD alone, LS isn't bad enough to warrant murdering the deck. Also, Michael isn't really a great boss (He's just good), as Life Points kinda matter if you want to run Soul Charge. -- Dark Ace SP ( Talk ) 16:37, May 25, 2014 (UTC)

Socialgames:
Banned: Daddy Rulers, Baby Rulers, Honest, Exciton Knight, BLS, Beelze

I Honestly Think Honest Should Be Banned Because He Is An Ass Saver,Also It Pisses Many Competitive People Off.

Limited:Soul Charge,Lonefire,Supervise,Monster Reborn,Stratos,JD,Heavy Storm,Wave Motion Cannon,Future Fusion,Hyperion,Odd Eyes Pendulum Dragon,Infernity Archfiend,Laval Volcano Handmaiden,Level Eater,Pot Of Avarice,Card Trooper,Chaos Sorcerer,Tour Guide,Tenki,Bear,Gorilla,

JD Is The OTK Card,Summon 1 Pop Field Then Summon 2 More From Hand,Supervise Is Like This:Tribute Lonefire Special Giga Plant,Use Eff Special Lonefire Again,Eff Lonefire,Tribute Summon Gigaplant Use 2nd Supervise,Special Lonefire Use Eff,Summon Another Gigaplant,Use Another Supervise And Use Eff To Special Lonefire And Tribute For Tytannial.Exactly 10K DMG!!!

I Honestly Hate Burn Deck.Getting Motion Banned Is Very Good Limit Card

Soul Charge Is The Comeback Of Pendulums:Use Torrential,Then Use Soul Charge,Bring Them Back. Odd Eyes Pendulum Dragon:The Searcher Of Your Trouble. Infernity Archfiend:The Card That Can Be Troubleous. The Only Quasar Way:Laval Volcano Handmaiden.

Semi-Limited:Bottomless,Macro Cosmos,Rescue Rabbit,Skill Drain,Rai-Oh,Mound Of The Bound Creator,Allure Of Darkness,Ice&Fire Hand,Reinforcement Of The Army,Malicious,Plague,Trish.

Unlimited:Formula Synchron,Dandylion,Night Assaliant,Dimensional Prison,Mirror Force.

Thank YouSocialgames (talk • contribs) 12:23, June 6, 2014 (UTC)


 * If you ban the Daddy Rulers, you don't need to keep the Baby Rulers banned, the Babies do absolutely nothing without the bigger Rulers. People have outlined above & below why Reborn and Heavy can't come back, Pot of Avarice shouldn't be a card, Stratos should stay banned as Dark Mist will come out later this year. Wave Cannon is too reliant on not getting destroyed. Future Fusion can't be Limited while Chaos Dragons exist as a deck. You can't limit Tenki, Bear, and Gorilla as that would kill Fire Fist as a deck, if anything, you can only justify a hit on Tenki. Of you deal with Soul Charge, Maiden isn't that bad, yes she makes Quasar, but so do Plants. Pendulum Summoning would be too new for the TCG and Odd-Eyes wouldn't be hit, I agree that the search then going to the Extra Deck isn't the fairest way thing to do, but the summoning system is too new. Don't see much of a reason to Limit Trooper, I'd honestly be okay if it went to 3, as Kuribandit is arguably a better card for milling. Archfiend isn't an issue with the deck, the stuff it searches was. The Supervise thing isn't bad, as you need to have 3 Supervise and 1 Lonefire; getting 3 exact copies of a single card is hard, even with Hidden Armory a thing. -- Dark Ace SP ( Talk ) 13:29, June 6, 2014 (UTC)

First Of All My Wish Is To Limit Stratos Because Heroes Are My Fav Archetype,Future Fusion Because I Want To Use It,Beelze Banned Because He Is Very Abusive.Ban The Baby Rulers Just To Get Rid Of The Annoying E-Drags.IK That Pendulums Wont Be Hit Because Konami Wants To Make Money Out Of Them,But Atleast Limit Odd Eyes,I Hate FFs Thats Why Limit EM ALL!!!.Trish Limited Because I Have A Wish To Use It.Thats Why Limit Lonefire Because It Makes Quasar,I Bet That Next Year,Sylvan The Meta Plant So It Should Prob Get Hit.Stratos And The Fire Fists Are Just Personal Preferences.Socialgames (talk • contribs) 12:04, June 10, 2014 (UTC)


 * I understand that you're list is a wish, but generally it's a good thing to base some of the choices off facts. -- Dark Ace SP ( Talk ) 13:17, June 10, 2014 (UTC)

Dark Ace SP's Thoughts
Banned Limited Notes:
 * The Rulers
 * Thousand-Eyes Restrict
 * Sinister Serpent
 * Dragon Ravine - Dragunity shouldn't have 3 of these, but 1-2 would be fine.
 * Soul Charge - I'm mixed on this, while the card seems really broken at first, the LP cost actually matters, and we've seen people win matches off of main decked Magic Cylinders and Ceasefire. I'd be okay with this at 1 or 2, it's not ban worthy.
 * Artifact Sanctum - Don't think Konami will do much unless the Artifact Engine becomes really annoying by July.
 * I don't think Primal Seed is that bad. Mostly because it's like a five-card OTK.
 * While I used to want DMOC back, I think that he's just too powerful. Yes, there's nothing really bad that he could bring back now, but if he's around, wouldn't Konami have to nerf future cards just to keep him around? I'd rather have strong and good spells than DMOC back. While Faith is at one, the merits of using a weak Flip-Effect monster kinda balance her out. While DMOC is simple to dump into the grave with Lavalval Chain, then revive using Call of the Haunted. Plus a Dark Magician of Chaos, Call of the Haunted, and D.D.M. - Different Dimension Master deck is really viable in my opinion.
 * Necroface could go back to one. However, even at two, Gold Sarc could probably be dropped to 2-3.

Semi-Limited Unlimited -- Dark Ace SP ( Talk ) 16:52, May 26, 2014 (UTC)
 * Reinforcement of the Army - I'm mixed on this one. I feel like ROTA has been stuck here for way too long. Yes, it'll give HEROs one more search card, but the reality is that HEROs already have like 6, not counting the future E-HERO Dark Mist.
 * Dark Armed Dragon - Yeah, he could go to two. No one uses him except Chaos Dragon and some Zombie/Blackwing decks as a deck. I think Shaddolls use him too, but I'm not sure on that.
 * Mole - Yeah, he's cool, but Mole isn't really used today, maybe as a side-deck card, but even then.
 * Debris if Tempest leaves.
 * ARA
 * Reborn Tengu
 * Sacred Sword if Rulers leave

Banned
 * Dragón rulers
 * Beelze
 * Cyber network coz every multi banished monster rb is banned

Límited
 * Blackwing kalut same as honest eff
 * Black sonic is a súper mirror force
 * Cyber dragón nova
 * Brain control
 * Heavy storm
 * Judgment dragón
 * Goyo guardián isnt to strong now
 * Graceful charity
 * Morphing jar
 * Monster rb
 * Many six samurái. Cyber. Fairy and other monster type are stronger now....

Semi Scorpion2099 (talk • contribs) 17:40, May 27, 2014 (UTC)
 * Bottomless trap hole
 * Compulsory


 * Beelze isn't powerful enough to warrant a ban. Yes, he's a beatstick, but he's not overpowered. Number 101, Phoenix Wing Wind Blast, and a few other cards deal with him easily. Not to mention Breakthrough Skill and Fiendish Chain make him really weak. While counter arguments aren't always amazing to use, in Beelze's case, there are quite a few ways to work around him. Cyber Network isn't Return from the Different Dimension, they are very different cards. Network, if used by it's own effect, takes 3 turns to use, and the monsters you summon can't use their effects and you can't conduct your Battle Phase. If you blind MST and destroy it, it's kinda your fault.
 * Kault was once at 1, but Konami dropped him to 3 over a few formats because Blackwings got power-creeped. Even though BW is still a good deck, and has taken a few Top 8 spots this format, it's not a game-breaking deck, and is seen more as a rogue deck. As for Sonic, it's restricted to only BWs and even though its a superior Mirror Force, if it will be hit, it will be semi-limited, because it works exactly like Mirror Force, except with a more permanent form of removal. Also, Dimensional Prison, which only removes one monster is also Semi-Limited. You can't really Limit a restriction-laced card if it's more general cousins are both Semi-Limited. Brain Control isn't coming back because there is no restriction on what the monster can be used for, and I can make the argument that Mind Control should also be banned.
 * Charity is never coming back, mostly because it's cost is no longer a cost. This game has evolved to the point where monsters in the grave are very easy to bring back. With Call of the Haunted at 3 and a few other Revival cards, drawing 3 cards, then ditching two monsters for later is a very beneficial play. Not to mention that Dark World will gain their effects when used with Charity. Would you like your opponent to draw 3 cards, then get the effects of a Grapha, Dragon God of Dark World and Snow, Magician of Dark World/Broww, Huntsman of Dark World?
 * Monster Reborn isn't coming back, if you want revival, use Call of the Haunted, which is at 3. Morphing Jar shouldn't come back, not only is it part of the FTK with Morphing Jar 2 or itself, Creature Swap, Jackpot 7, and a bunch of cards to change battle position of an opponent's monster. Empty Jar also uses the same principle, but the Jackpot 7 deck doesn't need to deck your opponent out, it just needs to get lucky on turn number one. Not really sure BTH should go to 2, Traptrix Myrmeleo is great, no need to turn it into amazing. -- Dark Ace SP ( Talk ) 02:30, May 28, 2014 (UTC)
 * I mentioned earlier that counters can justify cards sometimes, it just depends on how powerful it is when it's unable to be countered, and Beelze is just a giant 3k beatstick on hos own. We're not in 2003 anymore, beatdown decks aren't tier 1. Cyber Dragons aren't that good...there's no reason to ban/limit their main cards. Brain Control, charity, Heavy Storm, Morphing Jar, and Reborn won't be coming back, neither will Goyo and JD doesn't need a hit. Compuls to 2 is possible, but Bottomless is searchable through traprix myrmeleo, it should stay at 1. Ninety-eight (talk • contribs) 12:36, May 28, 2014 (UTC)

My July 2014 Predictions
Banned:

Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning: This guy has made lots of people rage quit. Basically a Chaos Sorcerer (Who is semi right now) on steroids and more.

Dark Armed Dragon: Oh hey, lemme just get a 2800 beater and destroy 3 cards you control.

Evil Swarm Exciton Knight: Generic-nonsuicidal-easytosummon-blackrose.

Limited: Bujingi Crane or Bujingi Turtle: One of these things needs to go.

Mermail Abyssphere: Because Linde.

Number 101 Silent Honor ARK: Prevents destruction and takes any special summoned monster. Ew.

Semi-Limited: Gorz the Emissary of Darkness: No one uses him. He deserves some love.

Unlimited: Thunder-King Rai-oh: Either 3 or 1. He isn't very threatening unless you special summon big monsters a lot or you are Bujins, and even then, is easy to get over.

Ray.tanner.10 (talk • contribs) 01:28, May 28, 2014 (UTC) Taco the Magic Dragon


 * Dark Armed Dragon is cool, but he's more likely to go down to 2 than to 0, simply due to the fact that he isn't widely used, and just isn't as threatening as he once was. You can make a decent case of Evilswarm, but again, Konami isn't likely to kill him as he solves problems and is easily removed from the field, same with Number 101 (101 is cool, but basically a better version of Maestroke the Symphony Djinn and a once-time protection isn't that big a deal). As for BLS, he hasn't been seeing a ton of use as of late, maybe in Shadolls, but that's it. Also, making people rage-quit isn't a reason to ban a card. -- Dark Ace SP ( Talk ) 02:06, May 28, 2014 (UTC)

Here's My Predictions:

Banned: -Dark Hole:Speaks For Itself

-Solemn Warning:I think this is the most used Trap now,yeah it's 2000 LP but you can negate anything,also the Normal Summon of an annoying card like Yamato,So I think it'll reach it's big bro Solemn Judgment in July.

-Blaster,Redox,Tempest,Tidal:When Konami put them to 1 I thought they were dead,Now I realize the only way to get rid of this Deck and all is variants is banning all 4 Dragons.

Limited: -Bujingi Crane:Why does Bujin need to have 7 Honests,while all other Decks have 1???

-Abyssteus/Abyssphere:I think at least one of these 2 cards needs to be limited,not Gunde,again why did they limit Abyssgunde?? Pointless...

-Fire Formation-Tenki:I know Konami wants to promote Bujin (See PRIO TCG Exclusive) but this card is basically ROTA for Beast-Warriors,it's used by tons of Decks,some of which are also Top Tiers,Imo it should have been limited already in January...

-Madolche Hootcake:My poor lil' harmless Hootcake :( Being a Madolche player I'd like this card to be left untouched,but it's clear that with the release of Anjelly,Madolches got a boost,and it's also clear that Hootcake has always been the problem,now with Anjelly it's just way too easy to use and reuse him,So if Madolche starts to do well,I think this card will be the first one to be hit.

-Dark Magician Of Chaos:Now the only Deck that could "Abuse" of this card is Spellbook,so I don't see why it should stay banned,now it's far less dangerous than it was before.

-Trishula,Dragon Of The Ice Barrier:Yeah I know this card is kinda OP but hwo many Decks can consistenly drop it? The game now is dominated by Xyz-Based Decks so I don't think limiting this card again will have this huge impact,in OCG it's limited since September and nobody has died cause of it...

-Cold Wave:Why can't I OTK without being stalked by a Trap everytime I activate an effect??? With the release of Artifacts it's clear that Heavy can't come back and Giant Trunade would make Fiendish Chains and COTH recyclable so it won't come back too,but I'm tired seeing my Summons negated or my Beelze killed by Dimensional Prison,I want a card to OTK in peace! (I know Konami doesn't care of what I think but...)

-Number 101-Silent Honors ARK:Maybe it won't happen in July but I think this card is more "List Worthy" than Exciton,nobody runs 2 Excitons while this card is spammed in every Deck,have you ever played against Heraldic Beasts? They and they're not the only Deck have more than 1 copy of this card so I think it deserves to be limited... Ive Played With Heraldic Beasts And Summoned 3 101s And Absorbed His 3rd 101 Lol That Was 2 Awesome.Socialgames (talk • contribs) 12:25, June 10, 2014 (UTC)

-Artifact Sanctum:"If you activate this card you cannot conduct your Battle Phase" tell me who has ever used this card in their turn! I simply hate this card,your quietly conducting your turn and all at once they use this thing and pop Moralltach or Schyte to screw up your plays...

Semi-Limited

-Honest:I know this may seem absurd,but Artifacts are Light and also Lightsworns are getting new support so maybe Konami could put this to 2 to promote them...

-Dark Armed Dragon:Don't think this card would have a huge impact on the game even if it was Semi....

Thunder King Rai-Oh:C'mon we need a way to stop Bujins and Fire Fist from searching their entire Decks... And then I still don't understand why this card was limited -.-

And that's all for my kinda butthurt predictions on how much I hate this Format :)

Prudence94 (talk • contribs) 08:36, May 28, 2014 (UTC)
 * Warning doesn't have to be banned, it negates a summon for a couple thousand life points, which is good, but not enough to ban it. Judgment negates anything and can always be afforded no matter what. Tenki and ROTA can both be at 2 to give good support to their respective types without being too strong. Cold Wave, "Why can't I OTK without being stalked by a Trap everytime I activate an effect???". Because OTK's are bad for the game; they promote one-player games, and yugioh is supposed to be a two-player game where both players interact with one another, not a one-player game where you play all you want and your opponent can't do anything to stop you. I personally dislike Trishula, although it realistically could come back. Honest won't come down from 1, especially if you're advocating for Crane to get hit; if anything Honest should go to 0. The rest I agree with, to some extent. Ninety-eight (talk • contribs) 21:33, May 28, 2014 (UTC)
 * "Why can't I OTK without being stalked by a Trap...?" Hey, have you tried Trap Stun? --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 16:47, May 29, 2014 (UTC)
 * I think we'll see Heavy back before we see Cold Wave (artifacts don't prevent Heavy from coming back, it's actually an argument IN FAVOR of bringing it back). Trish may not be as threatening as before, but many decks (like Agents) are still fully capable of making it without greatly changing your build (unlike Quasar which requires a deck to be built around it). Holmez89 (talk • contribs) 16:13, June 6, 2014 (UTC)

Dude, you forget about "The Transmigration Prophecy". This card can get off the lists as this card and the loop is way too slow nowadays. Sui cho (talk • contribs) 23:31, May 28, 2014 (UTC)


 * It could come off, but the fact that the OCG has a habit of creating Stall Decks with it doesn't help it's case. -- Dark Ace SP ( Talk ) 03:39, May 29, 2014 (UTC)

GalaxytechDarklord's Predictions
While every prediction has a certain degree of bias towards each of the choices I have tried to fairly justify my predictions (see below list).

Banned: - Coach Soldier Wolfbark - Rekindling

Limited: - The World of Prophecy - Soul Charge - Bujingi Crane - Abyss Sphere/Mermail Abyssteus - Madolche Anjelly - Fire Formation Tenki/Gyokkou - Sangan - Dragon Ravine - Return from the Different Dimension - Elemental HERO Stratos Semi Limited: - Infernity Launcher (While Barrier remains at 1) - Super Rejuvenation

Unlimited: - Infernity Barrier - Morphing Jar #2 - Magician of Faith - Dark Strike Fighter - The Transmigration Prophecy

Explanations:

For my Banned predictions I attacked Coach Soldier Wolfbark and Rekindling; two very powerful cards in the right place. People were happy after they were put to one in April but the truth is all the people who ran them only really ran 1 of both anyway because in the wrong situation they clog. With Fire Fists raging on something has to give.

For Limited I chose some cards that are overpowering to the game.

Firstly, The World of Prophecy. Spellbooks were most probably a product of one of Konami's theories to stir up the meta, "I wonder what happens when we invent an archetype of spell cards..." not only did they speed up the meta with Spellbooks but the high-level monsters were ridiculously easy to summon and, not only that, but The World of Prophecy can completely obliterate the field on summoning. Yes, you may be thinking "But Spellbook of Judgement was a greater threat that any of the monsters..." Answer: Yes and no, while a overpowered card, it was never properly integrated into the meta since it was hit a couple of weeks after its release.

Secondly I chose Soul Charge. A powerful staple for any competitive play. Go to your locals without one and your a nobody...Just kidding... but seriously while it is more balanced than monster reborn at 3 tier 1 deck will run wild with this card.

Thirdly, Bujingi Crane, Honest for Bujins. With the release of Primal Origin Bujins have received far more support than they should have, with their initial release in Judgement of the Light they were packed with more than enough juice to make a mockery of every deck in tier 2 and most of the stuff in tier 1. Just like Honest and Kalut, Crane should be limited for now...

I then turned to Mermails, very op with their recent releases. Very annoying as well. Abyss Sphere causes a lot of this stuff and Mermail Abyssteus causes a lot of problems as well. In my opinion one of these has to budge.

I think it’s obvious why I chose Madolche Anjelly: it allows the archetype to run wild even further than they already have.

Next on the hitlist; Fire Formation Tenki/Gyokkou. One of these two has to budge because they tend to be the opening card for Fire Fists and, while this may not apply to Gyokkou, Tenki has a wide generic range making it useable in Bujins, Gladiator Beasts and other various archetypes. Tensu can be mildly annoying also, having the backrow sealing ability makes it cloggy at times but when used in the perfect situation it would be enough to push for game.

Something I feel about the next card angers me a lot: that’s right, Sangan. This is a card that should never have made it to the banned section in the first place. While Chaos Dragons manipulated it mildly and plain Exodia decks worshipped this card. It was never a card that would make a deck so overpowered it jumps from tier 3 to tier 1 and, with Chaos Dragons not doing so well these days it should go back to 1.

Dragon Ravine. At the time of its banning it was abused by Dragon Rulers and, consequently, Konami put their foot down. While they can’t admit that the Dragon Rulers were way way way too OP banning Ravine caused a lot of anger especially with some guys at my locals who had been running pure Dragunity decks since day 1 of their initial release. With the Rulers being nothing more than tech support at this point Ravine should be slowly re-introduced.

Return From the Different Dimension: For the same reason as Dragon Ravine.

Elemental HERO Stratos was one of the only things that made E-HEROs good and caused angry riots among HERO players because of it. HEROs aren’t really threatening and Stratos was a staple to them.

For Semi-Limited I look at only 2 cards: Infernity Launcher and Super Rejuvenation. Launcher is one of the ace cards of Infernity decks and while the other, Infernity Barrier, is locked at 1 Launcher should come to support them still. As for Rejuvenation it was abused by Dragon Rulers but was the endgame card for Exodia Draw, not a threatening deck.

Unlimited: Infernity Barrier: An annoying card, yes, but necessary to allow Infernity decks to stay at tier 3 Morphing Jar #2: Shouldn’t be there, not sure why it is.

Magician of Faith: Not a widely used card, been on the banlist for too long, etc.

Dark Strike Fighter: Its effect has been re-written in Japan meaning it will be in the US/UK as well, probably, meaning it is a fair, balanced and generic Synchro.

The Transmigration Prophecy: not OP, not powerful, not a game-changer.

GalaxytechDarklord (talk • contribs) 12:49, June 2, 2014 (UTC)


 * People who ran Wolf and Rekindling ran a minimum of two, Wolf was usually run at 3 in Fire Fist and Rekindling was run at 2-3 in Fire Kings. Sangan can't come back, Tour Guide still searches him and Konami made it clear they don't want to deal with a general searcher; while I don't think he'll break the game, he just searches for way too much. Return from the Different Dimension can't come back, it's like Soul Charge, but you'll always be able to use it to summon 5 monsters, and Dragon Rulers are still a thing. Dragon Ravine, again, Rulers must leave the game before Dragunity can be brought back into the game, same with Rejuvenation.
 * Stratos was a very broken card if you look at it, I'm not saying HEROs shouldn't have a search card (They have like 6 Spells + Dark Mist later this year), but Stratos triggers no matter how he is summoned and is recycled with Shining. Morphing Jar #2 is banned because it is part of a First Turn Kill with Creature Swap and Jackpot 7, even though the FTK isn't easy to do, Konami hates FTKs (Not necessarily true of OTKs), because they kinda just ruin the game. DSF will probably be dropped on the list as his database text has been updated as well. Transmigration can loop itself, while it isn't game-breaking, it's part of stall decks with D.D. Borderline.

-- Dark Ace SP ( Talk ) 13:05, June 2, 2014 (UTC)

You're wrong on Wolfbark and Rekindling, every 4-axis Fire Fist player and Fire King player ran 3 Wolfbark when it was at 3, and 3-axis Fire Fists and Fire Kings ran at least 2 Rekindlings (Laval Quasar ran 3). Although, I do want Rekindling banned because it's terribly designed, but Wolfbark can stay at 1, like Fire Fist Spirit.

As for the limited cards...Prophecies are fine where they're at and limiting World won't do much as most players that run World don't run more than 1 (since World at more than 1 can lead to dead hands, it's useless if it's not in your deck to Temperance it, or grave to life it). Soul Charge, Bujingi Crane, and Abysteus/Sphere at 1 are good; Soul Charge is strong but not good enough to be outright banned, Crane to 1 is the best way to hit Bujins (Yamato to 1 would kill the deck), and Gunde to 1 didn't really change things in Mermails, Teus or Sphere should've been hit instead. Anjelly is not the problem with Madolches, Hootcake is the card you need to hit since he's the one that opens up the easy OTK plays in the deck by summoning Messengelato straight from your deck, then overlaying it and Mewfeuille to make MX Saber or Leviair, summon another Messen or revive Anjelly, then go into Tiaramisu to bounce off their field and go for the kill. Fire Fists are fine with 1 Spirit and 1 Wolfbark; Tenki and Gyokkou don't need to go to 1 (though Tenki could go to 2 as a slight check to them and Bujins). Sangan is a universal searcher that's searchable and recyclable through Tour Guide and Crane Crane, and Konami doesn't like universal searchers. The 4 dragon rulers have to be banned before Ravine can come back (since 1 Ravine becomes 4 with triple Terraforming, 5 if you count pseudo-space), and Return from the Different Dimension shouldn't come back even if the rulers get banned, it's a badly designed card that's used for nothing but OTK's. Rulers are also hardly techs; they still glue together Hieratics and Mythic Dragons as pure dragon decks, and allow them to top with the huge consistency they bring. Stratos is too strong to come back; it kept 4 other cards on the list at 1, and it caused too many OTK's with his lack of a OPT restriction and working on normal or special summon. If anything, give HERO's a 2nd or 3rd Reinforcement of the Army to help them instead.

Semi-limited...Launcher will never come down from 1, it causes loops and easy OTK's at more than 1, can be searched easily by Archfiend, and if anything I'd ban Launcher to allow Barrier to go back to 2-3. Rejuvenation, like Return from the Different Dimension, is badly designed without the Rulers, and we don't need another Exodia FTK card in the game.

Unlimited...Barrier can go to 3 only if you ban Launcher, Launcher is the only card that really needs to be hit out of the deck. Morphing Jar #2 is banned because of an FTK with the spell card Jackpot 7; you set MJ2, use creature swap, then attack it, and use Morphing Jar 2's effect (under your opponent's possession) to mill through your entire deck of spell cards and the 3 milled Jackpot 7's will win you the duel. I agree with Faith, it's a slow and bad card and no one would notice if it went to 3 or not; besides, all the broken, staple-esque spells are banned or limited. Dark Strike, when the TCG eventually gets it's OPT errata like the OCG did, then yes, it can come down to 3. Transmigration loops itself at more than 1 and causes a nasty stall deck with D.D. Borderline at more than 1.

That's my comments. Some of them make sense, but others, not quite. Ninety-eight (talk • contribs) 15:42, June 2, 2014 (UTC)

SM10's Thoughts
Banned:
 * Royal Tribute (1 of those "instant win" cards Konami now hates, such as RftDD or Rekindling, and Sams don't get Gateway, so GK's shouldn't have this)

Limited:
 * Bujingi Crane (Bujins are manageable...without 4 Honests, 3 of which are searchable >.>)
 * Geargiagear (Geargia's swarm card being hit would slow it down a lot)
 * Necroface (best it stays at 1)
 * Soul Charge (not as broken as expected, and actually wouldn't have to be hit at all if it weren't for about 3 decks)
 * Skill Drain (will probably be hit for how devastating it is in the meta, similar to how Oppression once was)
 * Wind-Up Carrier Zenmaighty (Shock Master is banned, other decks have come up, loop is still not viable with 1)
 * Trishula, Dragon of the Ice Barrier (card is fine at 1 now, not much would use it anyway)
 * Thousand-Eyes Restrict (I don't see the problem with this card, best thing about it is Instant Fusion = Smashing Ground)

Semi-Limited:
 * Dark Armed Dragon (yup, I'm with Ace on this one)
 * Geargiarmor (hurt Geargia just a little more)
 * Wind-Up Shark (balance out Zenmaighty's return)
 * Allure of Darkness (just a much needed deck thinner for DARK decks, simply adds consistency to most DARK strategies)
 * Book of Moon (don't see why not, it's not as popular now too)
 * Gold Sarcophagus (maybe even to 3, Rulers can't really use it as effectively anymore)
 * Artifact Sanctum (no explanation needed)

Unlimited:
 * Magician of Faith (card sees no use and will continue to see no use even at 3, see: Tsukuyomi)
 * Reborn Tengu (Hands and much worse exist, no longer as good with the Synchro era far behind us)
 * Formula Synchron (doesn't really matter with Fishborg, etc. gone)
 * T.G. Hyper Librarian (same as Formula)
 * Legendary Six Samurai - Shi En (does anyone even play 6 Sams anymore?)
 * Dark Strike Fighter (if not this list, then the next one because of the new errata)
 * Reasoning (Sylvans, maybe?...yeah)
 * Sacred Sword of Seven Stars (any more than 1 in Rulers is inconsistent now anyway)

Not Likely, Just My Opinion
 * Metamorphosis to 1 (not likely to happen, but the card has little use outside of a few decks, but Hieratics or Destiny HERO - Malicious can get a 1-for-1 Ryu Senshi, Artifact decks can trade an Artifact for Dark Balter the Terrible, and Dragon Rulers can trade a Ruler for The Last Warrior from Another Planet. Chaos Dragons can summon Dark Balter or Ryu Senshi off of Darkflare Dragon or Lightpulsar Dragon, respectively, and can even drop Naturia Exterio or Gaia Drake, the Universal Force with REDMD or Tragoedia. Cool stuff, would be a neat format to see.)
 * Heavy Storm/Giant Trunade to 1 (1 of these NEEDS to come back because they are necessary to a healthy game state, in my opinion. It leads to really slow formats, rather than balanced ones, and allows for careless overextension of backrow. Artifacts punish Heavy Storm as well now, so it's not as powerful as it once was. The existence of so many just good removal traps shows how important a mass S/T removal card is. Please bring one of them back, preferably Heavy Storm, Konami, and fix some of the traps on the list.
 * Glow-Up Bulb to 1 (literally makes everything better, and although some decks may easily abuse Bulb more than others and the card has not changed, the environment has evolved, including more ways to deal with Quasar and other Synchro power plays.)
 * Gorz the Emissary of Darkness to 2 (great card, can be dead at times, but it's one of the few cards remaining that can dig a player out of a tough situation and isn't really overpowered, although probably still wouldn't see much use at 2 outside of Frogs and such.)

That is all. Thanks. Synchro Maniac10 (talk • contribs) 16:00, June 2, 2014 (UTC)


 * Geargiarmor doesn't need a hit if Geargiagear goes to 1. Skill Drain is designed in such a way that it can't define a format, because most decks need the graveyard more than they need the field. That's why the 3 grave floodgates (Macro, Fissure, Soul Drain) are limited and Skill Drain won't be. Zenmaity can come back even if Shark doesn't get hit; Wind-Ups could use a little love. Sams still top some regionals from time to time, and triple Shi-En would definitely make people pick them up again for competitive YCS's, ect. T.G. Hyper Librarian will not come down from 1, because if it does then it becomes a free Pot of Greed every time either player synchro summons. If anything T.G. Hyper should go to 0 so Formula can come down to 2-3 with no serious issues. Lastly, Sanctum to 2 isn't nearly enough; to 1 would be better. Ninety-eight (talk • contribs) 17:51, June 2, 2014 (UTC)


 * Geargia have always been a deck that tops YCS's since its inception, even before Geargiagear existed. The deck could still use an additional hit, especially when Geargiauger becomes a thing, if not now.


 * You really don't make a good argument or explanation for Skill Drain...like I think you're missing the point. It has become similar to Royal Oppression before its ban in that it can be used to keep the opponent completely locked out of the game when they would otherwise have several options. In fact, Skill Drain is a huge reason why Mythic Rulers are still so effective. After they establish their set-up, they can protect their field with Stardust and beat down with the Rulers. Skill Drain cripples more decks than you realize - pure Geargia can't search anything at all, and even if the Geargia player has a Geargiaccel, all of the Rank 4's can do nothing about Skill Drain and lose their effects, but Geargia doesn't care about Macro, Fissure, or Soul Drain at all. Madolche can't use swarm with Hootcake or Mew-feuille, or search with Magileine and Messengelato, resorting them to a grind game that they may pull off with enough traps and Chateau in play. Infernities literally can't function under Skill Drain, as they hinge on searches off of Infernity Archfiend and summons from Infernity Necromancer. Evilswarm lose all of their control effects and their easy access to Rank 4 plays, and Ophion can not lock down cards like the Rulers under Skill Drain, so the only hope they have is to make an awkward play with Evilswarm Exciton Knight and Infestation Pandemic if they can't get rid of Drain otherwise. And finally, HATs, or Traptrix Artifact Hands, lose 2/3 of their engines. Artifacts may be hard countered more-so by Soul Drain, but they lose their bite because the Artifacts need their on-field effects to disrupt the opponent's plays. Traptrix are basically weak Vanillas under Skill Drain, which leaves HATs to depend on drawing the Hands to regain control of the game and pop Skill Drain. Even Dragon Rulers can lose to a well-timed Skill Drain before they finish setting up, so all of the top decks this format are affected by Skill Drain in some way, with a large portion of them being crippled. It's been at 1, 2, and 3 depending on the format, and I think it's time for it to go back on the list now more than ever, especially with Heavy Storm banned and MST quickly on the decline with the threat of Artifacts. That is my reasoning behind limiting Skill Drain.


 * We don't really want a repeat of Wind-Ups again, so 2 Shark makes Magician + Shark a little less consistent, but really it could probably stay at 3. Shi En is raped by Dragon Rulers, Hands, any 1 monster Rank 4 play (Geargiarmor, Traptrix Dionaea, etc.) and is much easier to play around in the game now. Correction on Librarian: two of them become a free Pot of Greed every time either player Synchro Summons. Now tell me, what viable deck can abuse that and easily put 2 Librarians on the board in one turn without wasting too many resources? I'm hard-pressed to think of one now because it's just not as likely anymore. Sanctum is not likely to go to 1 just yet until Konami gives time for Artifacts to shake out, much like Fire Fists, but it appears that is not too excessive by any means. Unfortunately, even Sanctum to 2 is actually just a really hopeful hit. Synchro Maniac10 (talk • contribs) 21:48, June 2, 2014 (UTC)
 * Yeah, considering Konami just released Artifacts for the TCG, Sanctum might go off easy on the July list and instead get hit the list after. As for Skill Drain...again, it's designed in such a way as to where it can't define or win an entire format on it's own, because it punishes you just as much as your opponent. The Dragon Rulers are terrible design on their own and need to be banned, Artifacts can blow up Skill Drain with Ice Hand or Artifact Ignition (or Malevolent Catastrophe/Double Cyclone, if you run more of a pure build), Madolches and Geargias can shut it down with Trap Stun (then OTK that turn), Infernities can blow it up with Break...the card just has a lot of ways to easily be played around, and I know this because if Skill Drain wasn't easily played around, or was hard to counter, then Skill Drain decks would be everywhere and would literally define the entire format, like Oppression did back in March 2011...but they aren't and don't. As for Geargias...if you really wanted to give them another hit on top of Geargiagear, smack Accelerator instead of Armor.
 * Wind-Ups won't return to their former tier-broken glory with 1 Zenmaity and 1 Magician, it'll allow them to be a fun tier 2 deck again at best, but without Avarice they can't hand loop, without Shock Master they can't control the field and OTK, and with only 1 Magician they have limited swarm options (oh and Sangan is also gone, limiting their searchability a little bit). They'll need a lot more than 1 Zenmaity and 1 Magician to be propelled to tier 1 again. The only reason sams don't drop double shi-en turn 1 and then set 3-4 backrow (drawn into from united), is because Shi-en is at 1, and they can quite easily drop 2 shi-ens turn 1 with all the search and tutor power they have. And truth be told, there are quite a lot of decks today that rely on S/T's to get their plays going. Artifacts need S/T's to summon themselves, Madolches can't use ticket or chateau, Geargias can't use Geargiagear or their other traps, Fire Fists can't use their Tenki's, Bujins and Mermails...eh, I'll give you them, but Crane is being hit soon enough and Mermails need a different hit anyways. If anything, bring ROTA down to 2-3 to boost them. ROTA to 2-3 would also help HERO's out quite a bit, and they need all the help they can get with Stratos banned. Additionally, unlimiting ROTA would also help promote satellaknights, coming out later this year. I don't care about consistency with things like Hyper Librarian, in fact the truth is it can still be made consistently in synchrocentric decks; they've just fallen victim to the xyz power creep that has taken over this game over the past few years (like Sams, somewhat), and if you want to give synchros new support, unlimiting a generic lv 5 synchro that rewards over-extension for free isn't a good way to do it. Formula can come down to 2-3 as long as the broken lv 1 tuners stay banned, but Librarian if anything needs to go to 0, it rewards you for recklessly using up all of your resources, like Super Rejuvenation or Spellbook of Judgment, both of which are also banned. Ninety-eight (talk • contribs) 22:51, June 2, 2014 (UTC)

Jetian's thoughts

 * Banned:
 * Dragon Rulers - alright, they are very difficult, but can be a big threat for anyone. Besides, their "pre-evolved" forms are banned, so why not a their "older" forms?
 * Brotherhood of Fire Fist - Gorilla and Bear - this pair is especially pain in duelists, who prefer a cards, where requirements are important.


 * Limited:
 * Archlord Kristya
 * Morphing Jar 1 and 2
 * Bujingi Crane
 * Monster Reborn
 * Master Hyperion[[
 * Fire Formation - Tenki
 * Light and Darkness Dragon
 * Wind-Up Zenmaines
 * Return from the Different Dimension
 * Macro Cosmos
 * Semi-Limited:
 * Neo-Spacian Grand Mole
 * Dark Strike Fighter
 * Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon


 * Unlimited:
 * Dimension Fusion
 * Future Fusion
 * Formula Synchron

--Neo Razora 16:05, June 2, 2014 (UTC)

Future Fusion can not EVER go to 3. Chaos Dragons, especially with 2 Red-Eyes and Elemental HERO Synchro would literally dominate. The issue I have with Grand Mole is how well Stun decks can use it to maintain board control when they are already locking the opponent down. Fire Fists have been hit enough to where they're not as big of a threat anymore, so a hit Bear, Gorilla, and/or Tenki is unnecessary. The Jars just got hit; they have broken combos. Return from the Different Dimension at 1 would be "fair", but not now since Rekindling got hit. Reborn could come back if Soul Charge got banned. Dimension Fusion is 10x more broken than Return, and will and should never come back. LaDD, Zenmaines, and Hyperion aren't even used that much anymore and don't deserve a hit. Macro is already at 1, and Kristya, while very powerful, is rarely seen outside of rogue strategies. Crane and Formula are fine where you have them, and Dark Strike can be at any number once it is errata'd. Hope all of that makes sense. Synchro Maniac10 (talk • contribs) 16:23, June 2, 2014 (UTC)
 * Dimension Fusion and Future Fusion to 3, AND REDMD to 2? You must be one hardcore Chaos Dragon player...Oh and BTW, Macro is already limited. Ninety-eight (talk • contribs) 17:54, June 2, 2014 (UTC)


 * Again, the Jars are part of a FTK kill, and while you can argue that Exodia is also an FTK. Konami has chosen to deal with a FTK and we should let them. Not saying Exodia gets a pass for being a potential FTK, just that when Konami decides to kill an FTK deck, we should allow them to do so. -- Dark Ace SP ( Talk ) 02:09, June 3, 2014 (UTC)

My ban list predictions: These would balance out the game, but I don't know what Konami will do and if they will hit the new cards just yet. This would also give old decks a chance as well.
 * Banned:
 * All 4 Dragon rulers: It is time to kill them. Many banned/limited cards can come back if they're gone, just like Stratos.
 * Wind-Up Hunter: Take the OCG route, ban Hunter and bring back Zenmaity.


 * Limited:
 * Cyber-Stein: Extremely high cost, and if it is hit with Effect Veiler, it is almost always a loss for that game. Dealing with Naturia Exterio is as easy as summoning Brotherhood of the Fire Fist - Bear, Evilswarm Exciton Knight, Number 101, Breakthrough Skill from grave effect, Fire or Ice Hand, Moralltach, activating Artifact Sanctum and having it be negated and destroyed and then using its second effect to pop Exterio, or just attacking over it by battle.
 * Madolche Hootcake: Some people are saying that Anjelly is the problem, it isn't. Hootcake (and to an extent Ticket) are. They are the OTK cards. Anjelly just searches Hootcake. If Hootcake is limited, the deck will lose much of its OTK potential and it will likely go back to control based, which it was designed for in the first place.
 * Sinister Serpent: Many reasons have been suggested why this card is banned, but none of them make sense. The card is too slow and if it is limited, the opponent can just D.D. crow it and be done with it (which some decks are siding for artifacts).
 * Tribe-Infecting Virus: It takes up a Normal Summon, and won't be used in the current metagame, except maybe for Mermails, but that is debatable.
 * Goyo Guardian: A good point was made about this card. The only decks that really synchro summon this format is Blackwings, Agents, Six Samurai, and Infernity to some extent (not the XYZ variant, the synchro variant, and these decks aren't relevant this format. (3 Axis Fire Fist can't synchro Spirit and Leopard or another card since Spirit states that it must be used for a Beast Warrior Synchro.) Big Eye is also a card that is way better then this card. Konami could bring this card back. This is a very controversial card, but it could allow Synchro decks to get their own mini Big Eye card.
 * Trishula, Dragon of the Ice Barrier: This card hasn't seen much competitive play in Japan, and if this card came back here, the only decks that could use it effectively would be Agents and Six Samurai, and those decks could use a boost.
 * Wind-Up Carrier Zenmaity: With Hunter banned, this card could come back.
 * Dragon Ravine (Dragons dead, bring back Dragunity).
 * Kaiser Colosseum: One of those "You can't play Yugioh" cards.
 * Soul Charge: Needs to be limited.
 * Artifact Sanctum: It speeds up the Artifact deck and has no downside whatsoever (except being a trap and not being a quick-play spell), and gets the Moralltach which pops any problematic card, or Beagalltach which generates more advantage.
 * Geargiagear: Sets up plays, sets up advantage.
 * Semi Limited:
 * Blackwing - Gale the Whirlwind: Blackwings haven't done anything even with 3 Whirlwind and Black Sonic.
 * Dark Armed Dragon: Give DARK decks a boost.
 * Fire Hand/Ice Hand: Either that, or limit them. They are way too powerful, allowing you to destroy your opponent's field with minimal drawbacks.
 * Gladiator Beast Bestiari: Gladiator Beasts haven't been doing anything, even in Japan with 3 Bestiari.
 * Gorz the Emissary of Darkness: With the huge trap lineups and continuous Spell/Traps, most decks won't even be able to summon this card.
 * Magician of Faith: No one used her at 1, they probably won't at 2.
 * Neo-Spacian Grand Mole: Mostly just a troll card, but can easily be destroyed. Not used in the meta at all.
 * Legendary Six Samurai - Shi En: Six Samurais are horrible with Fire and Ice Hands running around, and Bear, Moralltach, Big Eye, etc. to get rid of the player's only Shi En. If Six Samurais lose their Shi En, they usually lose that game. They can use another copy of Shi En.
 * Unlimited:
 * Debris Dragon: With the dragon rulers banned, this could come back.
 * Reborn Tengu: It hasn't been played really competitively since it got semi limited, and it can help combat the Hands.
 * Advanced Ritual Art: In support for the new ritual cards in Duelist Alliance.
 * Chain Strike: Burn hasn't done anything.
 * Reasoning: Dark Magician of Chaos and Return from the Different Dimension are banned.
 * Sacred Sword of Seven Stars: Dragons are dead per this list.
 * Super Rejuvenation: See above.
 * Gold Sarcophagus: ^
 * All 4 Baby Dragon Rulers: Pointless now that the big dragons are banned per this list, so these can go back to 3.
 * Mirror Force: No one is using this card anymore because of the Hands.
 * The Transmigration Prophecy: Similar to Sinister Serpent, there are some reasons given why this card has to be limited, such as it recycles and you never deck out, but Bait Doll is a card that also does that, and so is the entire Madolche archetype. As for stall, stall decks are bad and irrelevant.
 * Wall of Revealing Light: Self Destruct Button is banned, so this card is just another stall card that can be blown up with MST, but at least with Swords of Revealing Light, it can't be negated by Royal Decree, and you keep your Life Points if it's negated. If you want to get rid of your Life Points, Inspection also lets you pay almost any number of Life Points essentially. Red demon dragon (talk • contribs) 06:13, June 3, 2014 (UTC)
 * Wind-Up Carrier Zenmaity could come back to 1 regardless of Hunter's status, because the hand loop is impossible in the TCG with Avarice banned; also Shock Master is banned and Magician is at 1, making it nearly imposible for them to OTK, if at all. Cyber-Stein is banned because it's not really used for anything other than OTK's or lockdowns. It's not just Exterio, Last Warrior is also a thing, which prevents all summons, and you can make an FTK with Stein by using it with DNA Surgery (calling psychic-type), then Brain Research Lab to swarm your field with fusions at no cost. Oh and Gear Gigant X can search it easily. Kaiser Colosseum doesn't need to be hit; in fact it's fallen out of popularity a lot recently, even in Bujins, because Vanity's Emptiness is better most of the time, and that is also pretty easy to play around. Magician of Faith could even go to 3, it's just not good anymore. Fire Hand and Ice hand are quite balanced, since they can only summon themselves from your deck, and drawing into all of them sucks. Chain Burn does still make the top 32 at regionals and YCS from time to time, they don't need a 3rd Chain Strike, and Super Rejuvenation is also banned due to dragon draw exodia FTK, not just abuse from the rulers. I'm really not sure on Goyo and Trishula, but I'd rather leave them banned and make balanced replacements of them. Ninety-eight (talk • contribs) 11:31, June 3, 2014 (UTC)


 * Shi-En can't come back to two. It's entirely possible and consistent for a Sam Duelist to get two of these out in one turn. Having two Shi Ens is just game breaking for most decks, even in today's game. -- Dark Ace SP ( Talk ) 03:50, June 6, 2014 (UTC)

My Prediction
Banned

Absorbing Jar

Dice Jar

Dark Hole* (if Heavy Storm stays banned)

Limited

Abyss-sphere

Madolche Angelly

Soul Charge

Evilswarm Ophion

Artifact Sanctum

Heavy Storm* (if Dark Hole stays unbanned)

Kuribandit

Fire Formation - Tenki

Traptrix Dionaea

Bujingi Crane

Geargiagear

Hysteric Party

Judgment Dragon

Black Whirlwind

Semi-Limited

Harpies' Hunting Ground

Infestation Pandemic

Bujin Yamato

Traptrix Myrmeleo

Madolche Hootcake

Artifact Ignition

Madolche Chateau

Madolche Ticket

Ice Hand

Fire Hand

Pot of Duality

Reckless Greed

Macro Cosmos* (if Banisher of the Radiance/Light stays unbanned)

Dimensional Fissure* (if Banisher of the Radiance/Light stays unbanned)

Royal Decree

Kaiser Colosseum Pwndkthnx (talk • contribs) 04:34, June 5, 2014 (UTC)


 * Dice Jar? Seriously? Did you get pwned by someone rolling a 6 on you? --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 11:34, June 5, 2014 (UTC)


 * I don't think you can successfully compare Heavy Storm and Dark Hole. Dark Hole only kills monsters, and it's easier to recover from losing two monsters than it is from losing 2-3 Spell/Traps. -- Dark Ace SP ( Talk ) 12:36, June 5, 2014 (UTC)


 * Wow.........there are alot of things there that i personally want to see. unfortunately, will more then likely not happen. Most players run 2 of the hands anyway (or so i am told, i run 3 of each in a hunder deck because i really like opening with a seahorse and a hand to set) If Artifacts were't a think i would be laughing at teh absorbing jar, but Dice jar? pls don't tell you think that will be hit because the Morphing Jars were. too soon to hit Sanctum or ignition.DreadKaiser (talk • contribs) 21:57, June 5, 2014 (UTC)

If you just put down Absorbing Jar and Dice Jar because Konami just banned Morphing Jars 1 and 2, I can't take you seriously. They won't just randomly ban all the jars. Also, most of the other cards are unnecessary. My comments on each?

Banned
 * Absorbing Jar - Read above. Konami didn't just randomly ban the Morphing Jars, they were part of an FTK with Jackpot 7 and were justified. This and Dice Jar? You've got to be kidding me.
 * Dice Jar - ^^
 * Dark Hole* (if Heavy Storm stays banned) - Meh, I won't care if it goes.

Limited


 * Abyss-sphere - Sure.
 * Madolche Angelly - No, limit Hootcake.
 * Soul Charge - Agreed.
 * Evilswarm Ophion - Eh...Evilswarms aren't too good with Xyz Encore to easily take care of Ophion and I would much rather them limit Kerykeion or Pandemic instead of this.
 * Artifact Sanctum - Agreed.
 * Heavy Storm* (if Dark Hole stays unbanned) - No, we don't want this back in the game, backrow is harder to recover than monsters and the backrow and alternate S/T removal is balanced as it is now.
 * Kuribandit - My god, did you just lose to this? No way, it's a blind mill card that's nothing more than a decent tech for some graveyard-reliant decks.
 * Fire Formation - Tenki - Eh, it could get slapped to 2 again, but to 1 is too harsh.
 * Traptrix Dionaea - Nope.
 * Bujingi Crane - This and Tenki to 2 is the best way to hit Bujins without killing them.
 * Geargiagear - Agreed.
 * Hysteric Party - Could see it happening someday, but Harpies don't do much right now.
 * Judgment Dragon - Could actually get banned eventually, I won't care as the deck sucks either way.
 * Black Whirlwind - Why do you want to punish Blackwings? What have they done in the past 5-6 months to warrant a hit?

Semi-Limited


 * Harpies' Hunting Ground - Nope.
 * Infestation Pandemic - Most people only run 2 anyways...
 * Bujin Yamato - No, limit Crane, maybe semi Tenki. But they need this at 3 to be a deck.
 * Traptrix Myrmeleo - Nope, most people only run 2 at most anyways.
 * Madolche Hootcake - To 1, and leave Anjelly alone.
 * Artifact Ignition - Sanctum to 1 is enough.
 * Madolche Chateau - No one runs more than 2...
 * Madolche Ticket - ^
 * Ice Hand - ^^
 * Fire Hand - ^^^
 * Pot of Duality - ^^^^
 * Reckless Greed - Nope.
 * Macro Cosmos* (if Banisher of the Radiance/Light stays unbanned) - No, too many decks need the grave right now, this, D-Fissure, and Soul Drain are floodgates that shut down nearly 90% of all decks at the moment. They will stay at 1.
 * Dimensional Fissure* (if Banisher of the Radiance/Light stays unbanned) - ^
 * Royal Decree - It's a balanced way to play around traps, leave it at 3.
 * Kaiser Colosseum - Again, no one runs more than 2.

Ninety-eight (talk • contribs) 01:58, June 6, 2014 (UTC)


 * Also, another thing that differentiates the Monster Banishers form their Spell/Trap cousins is that the monsters can be negated via Breakthrough Skill and are very weak and their easy to run over. -- Dark Ace SP ( Talk ) 03:46, June 6, 2014 (UTC)

BAN
All Dragon Rulers

WU hunter

LIMIT Soul Charge

Ice/fire hand

geargiaccelerator

Bujin Crane

Artifact Sanctum

WU Zenmaighty

SEMI Skill Drain

BW Gale

Gorz

Gold Sarc

Grand Mole

-UNLIMIT Magician of faith

GB Bestiari

Baby rulers

Notable cards : "Sinister Serpent" (how can this card even affect the meta?), "Dragon Ravine" (With Rulers gone dragunities need some help), "Vanity's emptiness" (well,it could be hit but i don't see that happening - maybe semi) Tupac1971ful (talk • contribs) 21:24, June 8, 2014 (UTC)


 * Typically, people want an effect with as few drawbacks as possible (why pay 2000 LP or discard a card if another has the same, or similar, effect for no cost?). SS makes discard costs "free" (it would allow for more variation, but inherently removes a balancing feature). Holmez89 (talk • contribs) 22:02, June 8, 2014 (UTC)


 * There's a risk that Foolish, Mathematician, and Lavalval Chain could be used quickly to set him up, I agree with that. -- Dark Ace SP ( Talk ) 15:21, June 9, 2014 (UTC)

Moja619's Predictions
This list is rather long.

Forbidden

All 4 senior Dragon Rulers - though they are not currently OP at one, Konami had to hit several other cards just to keep these 4 from becoming too strong even at 1. The best option is to ban them

Dark Hole - time to ban the last of the "Big 3"

Limited

Sinister Serpent - i still think it's worth experimenting at 1

Pot of Avarice - just because Pot of Dichotomy exists in ths TCG doesn't mean that Avarice should get banned

Super Rejuvenation - if the 4 senior rulers get banned

Fire Formation - Tenki - bujins and fire fists were topping thanks in part to this card

Mermail Abyssteus - should have gotten hit insteada of Gunde

Traptrix Myrmeleo - HAT decks should receive a hit, but all the core cards are relatively new. the only candidate that's left is Myrmeleo

Geargiagear - easy xyz summon. geargias are currently topping thanks to this card

Madolche Hootcake - because anjelly is too new to get hit

Semi-Limited

Dragon Ravine - if the 4 senior rulers get banned (hell, it should be unlimited)

Coach Soldier Wolfbark - if Tenki is limited

Debris Dragon - if the 4 senior rulers get banned

Genex Ally Birdman - i don't see why it's limited. i'm sure it'll do no harm at 2, and the Harpie Dancer OTk won't be possible at 2 also

Inzektor Dragonfly - just to see how inzektors fare with this move

Thunder King Rai-Oh - it's an anti-meta card, it shouldn't be at 1

Divine Wind of Mist Valley - similar to Birdman. Harpie Dancer OTK seems too inconsistent anyway

Bujingi Crane - honest for bujins. hell, it should even be limited

Unlimited

all 4 junior Dragon Rulers - if the 4 senior rulers get banned

Magician of Faith - nobody will run this card at 3

Wind-Up Magician - as long as zenmaighty stays banned, i think this card can come off the list

Gold Sarcophagus - if the 4 senior rulers get banned

Sacred Sword of Seven Stars - if the 4 senior rulers get banned

Advanced Ritual Art - nobody uses this anymore

Hieratic Seal of Convocation - if the 4 senior rulers get banned

Mermail Abyssgunde - if Abyssteus gets limited

Well, there's my list for the upcoming format. --Moja619 (talk • contribs) 02:40, June 9, 2014 (UTC)

Looks good, but I have a few criticisms:


 * Pot of Avarice - It shouldn't come back. Not only is Dichotomy a fair replacement of it, but it rewards over-extension by giving you fast, instant recovery if your monsters die. And it's basically Pot of Greed.
 * Tenki - Wolfbark should stay at 1 and Tenki should go to 2 instead, where it belonged. Oh and ROTA can come down to 2 with it, since warrior decks in general aren't good anymore.
 * Myrmeleo - HAT decks are amongst the best decks of the format, but they're actually quite a balanced deck and don't need to be hit right now. The most unbalanced card in the deck by far is Artifact Sanctum, but like you said they'll probably save that hit until after worlds.
 * Birdman and Divine Wind - I thought it would be also, but actually, the Harpie Dancer FTK is still possible with 1 of each, it's just less consistent, so I think they'll keep them at 1.
 * Inzektor Dragonfly - Inzektors still make the top 32 at regionals/YCS quite often, they don't need a boost.
 * Crane - To 1, semi won't cut it.
 * Wind-Up Magician - It loops itself at more than 1 with Shark to make 3-4 xyz's in one turn off of just two cards in your hand (Magician + Shark). If anything, bring Zenmaity back at 1 with Magician at 1 (and Avarice staying banned), so the deck can get a little better, but still not be broken.

That's all I have to say. Ninety-eight (talk • contribs) 12:27, June 9, 2014 (UTC)

Digglett33 predictions
(please note this is a prediction on what konami is likely to ban not what needs to be banned)

Banned Limited Semi-Limited Unlimited Digglett33 (talk • contribs) 03:37, June 10, 2014 (UTC)Digglett3
 * Blaster, Dragon Ruler of Infernos
 * Tidal, Dragon Ruler of Waterfalls
 * Redox, Dragon Ruler of Boulders
 * Tempest, Dragon Ruler of Storms
 * Dragon rulers are banned because they have ruled two separate formats, brought many dragon decks, and cannot stay around with the return of future fusion.
 * Royal Tribute
 * Tribute is banned because konami is shifting away from one player win cards and tribute is one of the strongest examples of open it and win the duel.
 * Wind-Up Hunter
 * If Zenmaity, hunter, and soul charge exist in the same world there will be stupid combos and hand loops and no one wants to see the repeat of wind-up loop.
 * Soul Charge
 * Soul charge allows certain decks to set up unbreakable fields to the point of not caring about 5k life points. One example is a dragon ruler paying 4k and ending with 2 dracosacks on the first turn. At one it allows it to remain a power card that has to be used carefully and keeps infernities from falling off the face of the planet.
 * Thousand-Eyes Restrict
 * With Metamorphosis banned the only way to get this out is through instant fusion and at one makes it used sparingly and only in decks that can viably run instant fusion
 * Future Fusion
 * This pushes konami's agenda for selling Heros and Shadolls while also not being insane with the rulers being banned
 * Wind-Up Carrier Zenmaity
 * With Hunter Banned and shark at 2 this card coming back gives the deck to be at tier 2 while not being to perform insane loops, and has already been limited in the ocg and is doing nothing
 * Dragon Ravine
 * With rulers banned this card becomes reasonable at 1 and makes dragunities viable
 * Heavy Storm
 * As Konami creates more power traps and pushes OTK decks that use pendulums this card becomes a very reasonable possibility
 * Solemn Judgment
 * Heavy storm cannot live without solemn to be their to balance it and vice versa
 * Madolche Hootcake
 * With hootcake at one the deck is still viable as its recyclable but keeps plays from getting out of hand
 * Bujingi Crane
 * Makes bujins a reasonable deck that is still playable without stupid otks
 * Bad Reaction to Simochi
 * Nurse Reficule the Fallen One
 * Konami has shown that they don't like solitaire and burn decks which this card supports
 * Yata-Garasu
 * In a format with only one dark hole, dimensional prisons, and mirror forces yata becomes insanely hard to get off
 * Torrential Tribute
 * Creates games that are more based off of skill and player interaction
 * Compulsory Evacuation Device
 * Same as torrential
 * Fire Hand
 * Slows down the hand engine but makes it still viable
 * The Transmigration Prophecy
 * There are loops from this cards but so complicated and easily broken that they don't matter
 * Gladiator Beast Bestiari
 * Encourages more people to play new glad beasts.
 * Wind-Up Shark
 * Keeps Zenmaity at one from getting out of control
 * Black Horn of Heaven
 * Helps push pendulums, synchros, and xyz.
 * Fire Formation - Tenki
 * Slow down bujins
 * Infernity Barrier
 * Keeps infernity viable
 * Shadow-Imprisoning Mirror
 * Light-Imprisoning Mirror
 * Push shadolls and bujin tin
 * Thunder King Rai-Oh
 * Gives decks defense against out of hand searching while not being insanely powerful
 * Pot of Dichotomy (maybe)
 * This card could get hit depending on whether or not konami sees HAT as a threat to shadolls
 * Book of Moon
 * Creates more skilled and player interaction based games
 * Dewloren, Tiger King of the Ice Barrier
 * With trishula and fishborg banned this card loop doesn't work and isn't worth the cost to get out in the first place
 * Gorz the Emissary of Darkness
 * With so many trap cards in play this card could come to two and not really change anything
 * Magician of Faith
 * It's a decent card but has seen no play at one and won't at three
 * Mirror Force
 * Terrible against most decks and is seeing no play
 * Burner, Dragon Ruler of Sparks
 * Stream, Dragon Ruler of Droplets
 * Reactan, Dragon Ruler of Pebbles
 * Lightning, Dragon Ruler of Drafts
 * Useless without their parents


 * Collapsed your lists into one so it's not as long and a little easier to read. Also,
 * OBJECTION!!
 * Yata explanation: "In a format with only one dark hole, dimensional prisons, and mirror forces..."
 * Mirror Force explanation: "It's a decent card but has seen no play at one and won't at three"
 * There's clearly a contradiction in his justification for Yata here. Not only does Yata dodge Dark Hole because it doesn't sit on the field long enough for the opponent to use a Normal Spell against it, but your claim that Mirror Force sees no play means that Mirror Force won't hinder Yata's effects.
 * Which means that D-Prison and its brethren are the only things checking Yata, but seriously, will anyone blindly attack with Yata while there's backrow out?
 * --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 05:28, June 10, 2014 (UTC)


 * I don't think Future Fusion needs to come back to push HEROs or Shadolls, they're kinda doing that on their own with their killer cards. Also, while Pot is a good card, it's much more effective to hit Artifact Sanctum or a key monster in that deck that hit Pot. -- Dark Ace SP ( Talk ) 13:24, June 10, 2014 (UTC)

Yata will never come back, it stops your opponent from drawing, which is part of playing the game (you said Konami doesn't like 1-player games), and counters don't justify it because when it's not countered you'll probably lose. And sorry, but the TCG won't reverse last September Heavy + the traps. They're staying put and won't change anytime soon. Also, Wind-Ups could probably get 1 Zenmaity back even with Hunter, since Avarice is banned and they can't use Dichotomy to loop since it's at the start of main phase 1. Ninety-eight (talk • contribs) 03:58, June 11, 2014 (UTC)

potential returners
these are cards I suspect konami may make return to us

im not saying I agree it otta come back

im saying konami might based on trends and past actions/new releases

Chiissu (talk • contribs) 05:14, June 10, 2014 (UTC)
 * CYBER-STEIN unbanned in japan. if negated you lose. most of the best fusions cant be summoned. fusion usually dies next turn w/o doing jack. can be mindcontroled/creatureswapped/bigeyed to get out our own fusion or better yet, just take the fusion and kill stein for game
 * DARK MAGICIAN OF CHAOS all the best magix are banned.
 * ELEMENTAL HERO STRATOS unbanned in jaPAN. only good wind hero. konami is pushin heroes
 * GLOW-UP BULB konami stopped hating synchroes so theres some chance
 * MAGICAL SCIENTIST if negated its a 300atk attack mode monster. best case scenario, burn through 6000 lp to get 3 xyz mons only to get dark holed and directed for game. basically a soul charge for the extra deck(which can only run 15 cards which limits most options)
 * MORPHING JAR unbanned in japan. easy to see coming
 * MORPHING JAR #2 unbanned in jAPAn
 * SINISTER SERPENT not a danger. few would run it. encourages bad deck building
 * TRIBE-INFECTING VIRUS not as good as it once was. effect often backfires. suicide in A MIRROR MATCH. usually its a 1 for 1 card to kill one monster.
 * THOUSAND-EYES RESTRICT nowhere near as op as it was a decade ago. no one would fuse monsters to poop it out. only instant fusion is easy to git r dun. stopping battle/mode change in no way protects it now with all the monster removal/effect negation. if it attacks, just chain and kill its equipped monster and it runs headfirst into a big monster with all of its 0 atk
 * DARK STRIKE FIGHTER errata made it playable
 * GOYO GUARDIAN big eye doesn't need to battle and can use xyz against opponents.
 * TRISHULA, DRAGON OF THE ICE BARRIER unbanned in japan. little use early game. harder to get out compared to the new synchros.
 * DRAGON RAVINE if rulers get nailed
 * GATEWAY OF THE SIX unbanned in japan. only thing making 6sam playable
 * HEAVY STORM with so many traps, chainables and artifacts its no where near as good as it was in the before time
 * METAMORPHOSIS best fusions cant be pooped out with this. fusion monster usually dies after a turn, assuming its doesn't just get bottemlessed or compulsaryed. fusion deck isn't as easy to slip in fusions as it was b4 synchro/xyz
 * MONSTER REBORN unbanned in japan
 * PREMATURE BURIAL call at 3 and this isn't even chainable. equips are hardly used. and wasn't the brionac main reason this was banned?
 * SUPER REJUVENATION if dragon rulers get the axe
 * IMPERIAL ORDER as most magic removal s done with monster effects anyway. todays game would not likely have much impact with multiple chainables
 * RETURN FROM THE DIFFERENT DIMENSION if they ban the rulers
 * SELF-DESTRUCT BUTTON unlimited in japan
 * SOLEMN JUDGMENT unlimited in japan

You need to realize that the meta on both sides of the ponds are drastically different, along with their desired vision of the game. Why else would the banlist have split last September? --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 05:28, June 10, 2014 (UTC)


 * ummmm, Unbanned in japan is not a good reason to be unbanned in the TCG, believe it or not we play vastly different games. more specifically.
 * Premature burial is banned for a lot more reasons then just Brio was a thing, or it would be back at 1 when brio bit it.
 * Gateway, first off, where do you want any of these things. and no, Sams can exist without that broken pile of crap
 * the Jars, Jackpot 7 FTK is a thing. NO ONE likes FTKs in this game.
 * Serpent, Everyone would run it and change their decks to be able to use it, mathmatician, foolish etc can set it up. it is a free card and while nothing right this instant can use it, they will change TO use it. Mermails especially can use this to basically halve the "cost" of megalo and make free teus. Free anything can be taken advantage of.
 * Dark strike fighter, Errata is only in Japan, here in the TCG it is still the most broken synchro to ever live and will not leave the list until WE get the errata.
 * Glow-up, no, Konami still hates synchros
 * TIV.....dear god no, it would never backfire, if it would you don't activate it, SS would make it free to use, there ARE decks that run single types believe it or not, and most of all DEAR GOD NO.
 * Magical scientist was banned for a reason, and dropping 3 xyzs is by no means the best thing it can do.
 * dear god i am not going to dignify the rest of that. just play traditional if you want all that back.DreadKaiser (talk • contribs) 05:40, June 10, 2014 (UTC)


 * By desired vision, what do you mean (as in, what it is for both)? Chromace (talk • contribs) 05:50, June 10, 2014 (UTC)
 * Can't clearly describe the desired vision, but based on the different list patterns, OCG seems more tolerant of game states and cards that the TCG sees as "degenerate". --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 07:18, June 10, 2014 (UTC)


 * Example of "degenerate" card: Self-Destruct Button is just plain lame. Who wants to tie in this game? All the card does is troll tournament players who are actually trying to get into the final rounds.
 * Also, Premature Burial is easily abused with Dewloren, Tiger King of the Ice Barrier and Mist Valley Falcon, plus a few other cards in the Mist Valley group. I might be alright with Goyo coming back, but his high ATK makes him one of the strongest Level 6 monsters in the game, but who knows what Konami might do regarding him. -- Dark Ace SP ( Talk ) 13:34, June 10, 2014 (UTC)

FORBIDDEN


 * Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning - Shaddolls and even Satellarknights use this. It's a big turn of events if they summon this.


 * Pot of Avarice - they should have hit this earlier. Shaddolls and some Satellarknight users use this, and it's another big turn of events.

'''LIMITED'"'


 * Dark Armed Dragon - It's so wrong that they made this limited to 2. Just return it to where it really should be.


 * Dragon Shrine - unlike in TCG, OCG's Dragon Ruler Decks have Dragon Ravine. But I don't think they'll hit it, because Dragunity Decks here are not catching up.


 * Soul Charge - Dragon Rulers, Satellarknights, Shaddolls, almost all decks use it. Too good to be true.for.a card.

SEMI-LIMITED


 * Call of the Haunted - Satellarknights. Enough said.

REMOVED IN THE LIST


 * Black Whirlwind - Well, Blackwings are not topping at all anymore here.


 * Sacred Sword of Seven Stars - Not even Dragon Ruler users use this anymore.

Jampong (talk • contribs) 03:26, June 11, 2014 (UTC)

Tupac1971ful's Banlist Predictions & Explanations
BAN - All Dragon Rulers (they should eliminate Rulers)

Wind-Up Hunter (stop the loop and bring zenmighty to make WU playable again

LIMIT

Soul Charge (it needs to be hit,certain decks abuse this card so much but that's all no need to ban it)

Geargiargear (slow down geargias)

Bujin Crane (while i don't think this will happen,what else could they hit of Bujins?)

Wind-Up Zenmighty (make WU playbale again)

Goyo Guardian (Which meta-topping deck can even use this? Besides No.11 is by far more powerful and many top decks have easy access on him)

SEMI -- Artifact Sanctum (slow down HAT)

Madolche Hootcake (Not likely to happen,madolches aren't as powerful as people think but if they were to hit them,hit hootcake)

Ice & Fire Hans (Hands Changed the meta dramatically,semi them is good since the hand engine will still be viable and not so powerful)

Fire Formation - Tenki (Slow down Bujins,but on the other hand this will slow down decks like fire fists and koa'ki meiru that don't need to)

Skill Drain (Semi this is good,certain decks just make you not to play)

Dragon Ravine (Rulers Banned,why not?)

Allure of Darkness (Balanced card and give a push to Dark decks)

Blackwing Gale (Did BW do anything the past formats? They're support was crap to begn with)

Dark Armed Dragon (Like the OCG this card can come back!)

Gorz (This deck doesnt see anyplay at all,only certain not-topping decks like frogs/chaos dragons may use this at 2)

Gold Sarcophagus (Rulers banned - this could also go back at 3)

Grand Mole (Why not? this card isn't even sided nowadayz)

UNLIMIT -- Baby Rulers (Obvious)

Sacred Sword of Seven Stars (Rulers banned)

Hieratic Seal of Convocation (Rulers banned)

Reborn Tengu (With strong engines like hands and synchro decks being out of the meta,why not return this at 3? - also tenki being at 2 makes this hipothesis more viable)

Magician of Faith (It didn't see the slightest play at 1,will it at 3?)

Gladiator Beast Bestiari (Make GB competitive again,even at 3 Bestiari i don't think GB's will change the Meta) Tupac1971ful (talk • contribs) 10:05, June 11, 2014 (UTC)


 * The problem with hitting Bestiari is related more to Gladiator Beast Gyzarus spam, it's not really the deck in general. As for Hands, they're cool, but they didn't really change the meta, just made certain meta decks have answers to common problems. As for H.A.T., Traptrix Artifacts were already a deck in the OCG, but the Hands gave the deck even more Control ability. Seal of Convocation is more for Hieratic Decks in general, they're a very spammy deck and even if Rulers left, I'd still like to see Seal at 2. -- Dark Ace SP ( Talk ) 16:37, June 11, 2014 (UTC)

Gyzarous spam is indeed strong,but is that still enough to transformate GB's into an unstappable deck? Sure gyzarous spam will pop most of your cards (if it gets through in a heavy backrow and hand trap format) but that doesn't make the deck so unfair imo. There are so many decks outhere that get pluses everyturn for free. Also hands are floaters like none in the yugioh history. They can be teched in any deck and after poping a card they replace themselves with a new hand. (floater cards tend to do either of those things,not both). And they do affect heavily the meta,many decks top cause of the hand engine.Οn a first aspect that's good to help non-meta decks but on the other hand they are unfair cards that ruin the gameplay and originality --Tupac1971ful (talk • contribs) 18:40, June 11, 2014 (UTC)


 * I get that, but they're inherent flaw is that they need to destroy a card to summon the next floater. If Ice Hand can't destroy a Spell/Trap, it won't summon Fire Hand, and if Fire Hand can't destroy a monster, you can't summon Ice Hand. The Hands are a powerful suite of cards, but they're predictable and the only real option for the Hands is a Semi-Limit, which probably won't do that much. Most players run either 2 copies of each or the full 3, Semi-Limiting the engine will slightly hurt consistency for those who run 3, but it doesn't do anything to weaken the actual power of the Hand suite; especially with Pot of Duality Pot of Dichotomy around to put the used copies back. -- Dark Ace SP ( Talk ) 19:01, June 11, 2014 (UTC)

Pot of Dichotomy you mean? And while i haven't seen gladbeasts in a while, i no like the idea of 3 cards disappearing form 1 monster being summoned. that said, they DID just make a few new ones so i wouldn't put it past Konami to boost them somehowDreadKaiser (talk • contribs) 19:18, June 11, 2014 (UTC)


 * Just a bit of Data regarding the Hands:
 * Note: Data comes from the available decklists found at TCGPlayer.com, and I should have looked at more of the tournament deck list archives, but I went with the first 4-5 tournaments.
 * National Championship Belgium
 * Ruler - 3 Fire/Ice in Side
 * Evilswarm - 2 Fire/Ice in Side
 * National Championship Poland
 * 2nd Place - 2 Fire/Ice in Mermails
 * 5th-8th Place - 2 Fire/Ice in Geargia
 * National Championship Portugal
 * 5th-8th Place - 2 Fire/Ice in HAT
 * 9th-16th Place - 3 Fire/Ice in HAT
 * 9th-16th Place - 2 Fire/Ice in Side Deck of Mythic Rulers
 * National Championship Peru
 * 1st Place - 3 Fire/Ice in HAT
 * 5th-8th Place - 3 Fire/Ice in HAT
 * 5th-8th Place - 2 Fire/Ice in Madolche
 * Atlantic City Regionals
 * 5th-8th Place - 2 Fire/Ice in Gravekeepers
 * Lots of people only ran two hands (Main or Side) and still had success, so semi-limiting the engine might do absolutely nothing. -- Dark Ace SP ( Talk ) 19:15, June 11, 2014 (UTC)

The thing about the hands that balances them is that they 1) have to hit the grave to trigger, so you can stop them with stuff like Debunk or Abyss-Dweller, and 2) have to summon themselves from the deck to work, thus drawing into all of them sucks, kinda like Tengu, but he's slightly more versatile in synchro decks and with Divine Wind of Mist Valley. They're just the most generic way of decent monster and S/T removal right now because the other stuff like Heavy is gone. To be honest the hands will probably be tolerable through power creep. By the time we get brokedolls later this year, they'd be fine. I'd rather deal with the hands than midrash any day. Ninety-eight (talk • contribs) 00:55, June 12, 2014 (UTC)

So what is concluded is this :

1) Hands are annoying as they top in any deck on competitive tables

2) Semi-limiting them won't do the thing as most people run them at 2

3) Still some think that they are not that of a problem and they shoudn't be hit at all.

Imo, Hands are splashable cards that remove your opponent's monster/backrow line pretty easily without any general cost and they still replace themselves making them pluses. Supposed at this banlist the dominant decks (geargia,bujin etc.) are hit.I wouldn't like the next format to be an utterly "Hand" format and if they won't get hit that's what i anticipate. Hands don't have to bring another hand from the deck to destroy the card on the field, so i would place them on the limited list as they won't bring mass pluses and still can do their work (not so perfectly though). --Tupac1971ful (talk • contribs) 10:44, June 12, 2014 (UTC)


 * Are you saying you'd rather have the Hands Limited at one each? Or just placed somewhere on the F&L list? -- Dark Ace SP ( Talk ) 13:24, June 12, 2014 (UTC)

Personally yes i'd rather them being both limited,but what is more likely to happen is that hands will be untouched or just semi to slow a bit decks abusing them at 3. --Tupac1971ful (talk • contribs) 20:23, June 12, 2014 (UTC)


 * They'll never really be used at one each, they could be used while both of them are at one, but it's just more effective to use one-for-one removal cards at that point. There isn't a consistent method to search for the Hands except for Mother Grizzly into Ice Hand. It's very likely that Konami won't touch the Hands, even if they did, it wouldn't have any real effect, as many decks can run 2 Fire: 2 Ice and still be just as effective if not more effective as a deck running 3:3. -- Dark Ace SP  ( Talk ) 20:42, June 12, 2014 (UTC)

Hextros500's thought
Banilist Prediction

Banned

The Senior Dragon Rulers: Even at one, they're still overpowered for the players to overcome.

Limited

Beelze: Although it does have some weaknesses, Beelze its like still too powerful to deal with as it can't be destroyed by battle or card effects. Thus making the players Rage Quit as soon as it was summoned to the field. Three of them will probably be too much.

Geargiagear: It has become very too fast for the challengers. If Geargia have slow down a bit, it will give the other players a chance to win or not.

Soul Charge: Its kind of like a game changer as the player summon many monsters from the graveyard

Bujingi Crane: This kind of like Honest effect during the damage step but I think having three is kind of a bit too much.

Judgement Dragon: This card happened to be a gamer ender as soon as the cards were destroyed with the effects and two more of them were summoned to the field and automatically ends the game.

Evilswarm Ophion: Well, Ophion is kind of overwhelming to deal with.

Semi-Limited:

Dragon Ravine: If it has at least two of them in the deck, it will give the players a chance to make a comeback with the dragons.

Unlimited

Advanced Art Ritual: The ritual deck haven't been played lately.


 * Beelze won't be Limited. He isn't that powerful if you consider how widely used Number 101 is. Also, I kinda feel like Beelze is just an upgraded Stardust Spark Dragon. Also, it doesn't matter if there are 3 copies of Beelze, the only deck that can really summon 2-3 is Mali Zombies. Judgement Dragon is more likely to go to two, plus the OTK you mentioned only happens with 3 JD. Also, Evilswarm Exciton Knight is much worse than JD, and JD isn't really searchable (Minerva, Lightsworn Maiden takes too long to search him, although Eclipse Wyvern is quite effective) I wouldn't mind Ophion going to one, but I think Xyz Encore really kills Evilswarms during games 2 & 3. -- Dark Ace SP  ( Talk ) 21:39, June 12, 2014 (UTC)


 * Not to mention Castel will take it out easily too. as awesome as it is, if beelze is enough to make a ragequit then someone simply fails at building decks if they have no way over it.
 * How is Hootcake not on that list?DreadKaiser (talk • contribs) 21:59, June 12, 2014 (UTC)


 * Right, Castel the Avian Skyblaster is going to come out soon. -- Dark Ace SP ( Talk ) 01:13, June 13, 2014 (UTC)

>senior Rulers banned

>baby rulers still banned

Wat. Ninety-eight (talk • contribs) 03:33, June 13, 2014 (UTC)


 * I saw that too, but felt like it was obvious enough to not warrant a comment. -- Dark Ace SP ( Talk ) 04:09, June 13, 2014

At least keep 2 of the big dragons. I mean, why ban all of them like they are some sort of group that stays together or leaves together. I'd say get rid of blaster and tempest. I think those 2 are the most used and they can search for more useful things than what people use tidal and redox for. now of course i realize that mythic dragons are searched by tidal and redox but that deck really isn't that pwerful and wo't be that powerful especially without tempest and blaster. Even if konami decides to keep just one big dragon i'd be happy. Anyone agree with this?EHERO4LIFE! (talk • contribs) 11:15, June 13, 2014 (UTC)


 * Or just get rid of all of them to prevent any kinda of searching. But honestly, even though they should leave, Konami might just keep them at one, because they're creating the Wyrm. -- Dark Ace SP ( Talk ) 13:41, June 13, 2014 (UTC)