Forum:January 2014 Banlist Predictions (TCG)

We're still a bit early for this (2 months from January), but since the list will be updated in January instead of March, we should probably begin this. Here are my current thoughts on what the TCG should do:

Banned:
 * Sixth Sense - Stupid card. 'Nuff said.
 * Return from the Different Dimension - A win-button in Rulers.
 * Macro Cosmos - It stops you from playing yugioh...and fact is, most decks are graveyard-reliant these days. This card should learn from Royal Oppression and Shock Master and get banned.
 * Dimensional Fissure - Same as Macro Cosmos.
 * Soul Drain - Same as Macro Cosmos.
 * Eradicator Epidemic Virus - Also a win-button, and it says you can't play, like the above cards.
 * Dark Hole - We don't need any staples like this card in the game.

Limited:
 * Blaster, Redox, Tempest, and Tidal - Rulers have ruined this game for long enough, they need to go now.
 * Super Rejuvenation - With all of the babies gone, and the daddies probably going to 1, this card has no need to stay gone.
 * Something else from the forbidden list? (Sinister Serpent, DMoC, Faith, TER, TIV, ect). I'm not sure.

Semi-Limited
 * Chaos Sorcerer - Give Twilight decks a little push.
 * Neo-Spacian Grand Mole - The TCG should follow the OCG on this and Chaos Sorcerer. The decks that use this don't do anything anymore.
 * Gladiator Beast Bestiari - When was the last time Glads did anything? (Same as Sorc and Mole)
 * Reinforcement of the Army - Warrior decks could use a little love.

Unlimited:
 * One Day of Peace - So long as Mind Augus is limited, Gishki FTK is impossible, so why keep this card at 1?
 * Magical Stone Excavation - Doesn't see play anymore, so why not?

Well, that's my current thoughts on what the TCG should do. Any criticism or comments? Ninety-eight (talk • contribs) 16:58, October 22, 2013 (UTC)


 * Hmm, Stratos can stay gone. He's not bad, but his card design is, you get a search anytime he's summoned, and if he comes back, you need to semi-limit Malicious and the other cards that supported HEROs. Not worth hitting five cards for one. Card Destruction can also stay gone, it was a indirect hit on Dark Worlds, and it's proved to be too big of a win-button. I also don't want Heavy back, with 3 MST, back row isn't that bad. One Day is more of an issue with Exodia and Final Countdown. One more card I want semi-limited is Rekindling, I don't want it to go any lower than that though. Lavals and Flamvells have a right to be playable archetypes. -- Dark Ace SP ( Talk ) 13:02, October 25, 2013 (UTC)

all i wanna see is dragon rulers absolutely destroyed those things never should've existed in the first placeDennis.vanderwiele (talk • contribs) 13:22, October 25, 2013 (UTC)

Card Destruction was mainly a hit on Rulers, but all the daddies need to go to 1, or to 0 and unlimit the babies. Dragon Rulers should be a playable archetype, but not the way they are now. They need different support in my opinion, like monsters that can tutor the babies for rank 3-4 xyz summons and kill the daddies since they abuse everything. Dark Worlds could've been a little crazy with Card Destruction I guess. Being a HERO player myself, Stratos is probably a bit biased choice of mine, but HERO's weren't doing much with or without it so I can understand it coming back, or staying banned by what you said. If Stratos doesn't come back, they should probably semi-limit ROTA. Since Six Sams and HERO's lost their best cards, they need all the help they can get. One Day of Peace, same for Stratos, biased, but Exodia and Countdown, they aren't doing much anyways.

Furthermore, I could also see them outright banning the grave-stoppers (Macro Cosmos, Dimensional Fissure, and Soul Drain), as well as Eradicator Epidemic Virus. Let's face it, the game has turned incredibly graveyard-reliant over the past few years and those three cards basically say "you can't play yugioh", just like Royal Oppression and Shock Master did, and they're also banned. Eradicator is a one-sided mass removal card that shuts down entire decks on it's own, it wouldn't surprise me if it got banned too. I also wouldn't mind seeing Dark Hole get banned just like Heavy and Reborn, no staples actually sounds pretty fun. Rekindling is a win-button, but they need to give FIRE-types more support and make a watered-down version of it first, in my opinion. Then they can outright ban that mass spam summoner. Ninety-eight (talk • contribs) 14:18, October 25, 2013 (UTC)

Remind me how frequently Macro-centric anti-meta has made it in the tournament scene, prior to September? --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 15:00, October 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Gadjiltron, it doesn't have to be a deck centered around main-decking it and topping for it to be banned, what Macro, Fissure, and Soul Drain basically say is "I get to use my cards, you don't get to use yours because everything you need has to go to the grave." That's basically saying "you can't play yugioh", because the fact is, as much as I want to deny it, most of the decks in the current meta like to set up their graveyard for effects there. Furthermore, there's a good chance that any future decks Konami makes will be graveyard-reliant decks too. Not a good way of selling cards when those cards are in the game, is it? And limiting them to 1 just makes it a main-deck staple. Solution? Ban it. Furthermore, inconsistent ≠ balanced. Gateway of the Six was inconsistent and Six Sams hardly topped any tournaments, and look what happened to that card. Ninety-eight (talk • contribs) 15:58, October 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * So, in your opinion, what broke Macro and D-Fissure? They had been around since EOJ, only began seeing significance since PTDN and LODT (DAD and Lightsworns), but hadn't been paid any mind until September 2013. What happened then? I understand some old cards have their reasons (Gateway because LSS, Cold Wave because GB and pals), but I'm not seeing much which exploits Macro and D-Fissure more than before. --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 02:14, October 26, 2013 (UTC)

I dont see macro ever being banned, Faggot dragons burn in hell where you belong. " Something else from the forbidden list? (Sinister Serpent, DMoC, Faith, TER, TIV, ect). I'm not sure." Faith, MAYBE id like to see her back. the rest are game-breakers and were banned for a reason. Generic backrow and heavy can stay gone, games more fun without them. Also, MST at 3, how is a limited copy of macro "Not Yugioh anymore"? if countering grave relient decks is banworthy and gamebreaking, why isnt the gravekeepers topping tournys or on that list...?DreadKaiser (talk • contribs) 17:36, October 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Updated my predictions, I think this is it...


 * Check again, Gravekeeper's lost one of their Royal Tributes this format, and Necrovalley doesn't stop effects activating in the grave, like Dark Worlds or banishing Rulers from your hand. Dragon Rulers always find an out to everything. Either limit all the daddies to 1, or ban Tempest, Redox, Blaster, and Tidal and unlimit Burner, Reactan, Lightning, and Stream. And how is MST at 3 an argument against Macro? Would Royal Oppression be fine at 1 with 3 MST to stop it? Didn't think so. Ever heard of Master Key Beetle before?


 * Faith and DMoC will not come back unless Dark Hole is banned so there's nothing good you can get back with their effects, and Sinister Serpent, Tribe-Infecting Virus, and Thousand-Eyes Restrict are all a bunch of garbage cards from goat format that would hardly do anything if they returned in the current format.


 * Sinister Serpent? What will you do with it? Mermails and Dark Worlds already discard better cards that actually get cool effects when discarded and running terrible cards like Lightning Vortex or Divine Wrath just to make Serpent usable is an inconsistent, trashy mess.
 * TER? Metamorphosis is banned. It stays banned. Polymerization on Thousand-Eyes Idol and Relinquished is a -3 on your hand. No one would do that. Use Instant Fusion, TER can't attack and it dies in the end phase. Bad version of Soul Taker. Enlighten me otherwise.
 * TIV? Snipe Hunter's at 3 and can get rid of any card, including backrow, TIV only kills monsters, and it's not good in any deck except Mermails, which could use a boost.
 * Well, nothing needs to come off the forbidden list, but, in my opinion, something should. Ninety-eight (talk • contribs) 18:52, October 25, 2013 (UTC)

1, Not every deck can easily run Master key beetle. 2, Believe it or not, Master key beetle can actually die (cough COMPULSE, DPRISON cough), and may actually make it EASIER to kill macro by killing this, 2500 ATK isn't hard to top. if they dont use Macro as a shield, MST it then. if you still have an issue with stopping backrow, consider running Decrees or Dust tornado. If you STILL have an issue just popping 1 face-up trap....then i just say "Wow" and walk away. Macro is annoying as hell, but not ban-worthy. And master key beetle isn't a reason it should be for the same reason people laugh off the "It can be countered, so it can come off banlist" arguement. 3, snipe hunters is at 3 because its a gamble effect and it can only costs 1 card per attempt and can only pop one card if it works. TIV can potentially wipe fields for 1 card and has no gamble for it to do so. that's like comparing Pot of greed to any of its many watered down versions. Just because they are around @3 doesn't mean the grossly superior version should come back. Also, TIV plus Zombie skull archfiend and ZW = cheap nukes/Raigeki. So no, mermails aren't the only things that can benefit from this coming off either. Hell anything can use it as a cheap nuke, especially if they are up against a mono-type deck.DreadKaiser (talk • contribs) 23:48, October 25, 2013 (UTC)

also, Instant fusion TER. it dies, Call is at 3, rez it. there are plenty of cards to do so with (instant fusion DOES count as fusion summon). Master key beetle Call/TER itself, or just book it at any point in that sentence. You have been enlightened.DreadKaiser (talk • contribs) 00:05, October 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * You apparently haven't faced a decent deck using Key Beetle in a while. Evilswarms are one of the best decks that can use it, but Blackwings, Infernities, Zombies, and just about any deck that can splash Kagetokage and Instant Fusion for Kamionwizard can throw it in the extra as well. And Macro isn't the only problem with Key Beetle. Using it to protect Imperial Iron Wall, Vanity's Emptiness, Soul Drain, and especially Safe Zone makes Key Beetle a pain, if not impossible, to overcome, depending on the deck you're using. Compulsory is at 1, you won't always get to use it, and D-Prison requires an attack, again, you won't always get to use it. Not every deck can run Royal Decree either, or run it without hurting itself and you can't mst the card Key Beetle protects if they protect it while they set it on their turn.


 * TIV can be used in several decks, but the only deck that would really benefit from it's discard cost is Mermails, so they get a +1 from pitching their Infantry or Marksman. In other decks, it's gimmicky and would lower consistency more often than not. In all honesty, I don't expect Tribe to be the very next card to come off, but in all honesty there are plenty of better cards than him anyways. Then again, at the same time, there are also many better cards to unban before Tribe-Infecting Virus.


 * TER can't attack and dies in the end phase you Instant Fusion it. Call of the Haunted is bad. It's not a problem card in of itself, hence why it's unlimited because it's too slow and too easy to play around. There are not only plenty of better cards to revive with Call than TER, like Inzektor Dragonfly, Wind-Up Magician, and Infernity Archfiend so you can get into loops, but the only decks that would use Thousand-Eyes (Piper Chaos and Frog Monarchs) don't even run call of the haunted in the first place because it hurts their consistency to begin with, and running it just to reuse TER is terrible deck consideration. Hell Instant Fusion is better off being used for a rank 3-5 xyz summon or for huge synchro plays in Karakuris than being used as a one for one card that soul taker already does. Also, Soul Taker doesn't take up a space in your extra and can't be veiler'd, chalice'd, breakthrough'd, or fiendish'd. If you wanted to kill a monster use that instead of Instant Fusion. And Key Beetle is NEVER used to protect call of the haunted, let alone used in the decks that would run Thousand Eyes. Graceful Revival and Limit Reverse are more specific, and like Call, they're not hard to play around with or without TER, and again, it's downright bad deck building if you run Limit Reverse or Graceful Revival in any random deck just to revive TER. I can accept Kinka-Byo, maybe, but because the monster Kinka revives banishes in the end phase, you have to go for a rank 1 xyz like number 63 or Slacker Magician the turn it's summoned, which isn't half as good as the piper engine they already have. Ninety-eight (talk • contribs) 00:52, October 26, 2013 (UTC)

Ace's Revised Thoughts #1
Hmm...what a discussion.
 * The Rulers should be playable and having only 1 copy of each of the adults and 3 babies seems fine to me.
 * Hmm...I'm not sure what to say about Macro, Fissure, and Drain. They all stop you from playing Yu-Gi-Oh, but I think they might be necessary evils at one. However, having them leave the game wouldn't be that damaging. Or if anything, leave just one of the three at one, and my bet would be on Soul Drain.
 * I'm also a HERO player, and I'd love to see Stratos back, but I don't plan to let my emotions take over me. Stratos wasn't bad, but when half a dozen cards also need to be on the list for Stratos to be at one, it just doesn't seem to make mathematical sense.
 * TER could come to one, it might not be that bad. People said the same thing about BLS for years, and when BLS came off the list, we saw a rise in its use, but then it kinda faded away into a few decks that could actually use it reliably. Besides, TER's effect does not seem that bad. We can make the same case for The Atmosphere (It's summoning is laughable if you use Scapegoat.)
 * Faith could probably come back, maybe at one to avoid weird combos with One Day of Peace and Dark Hole. But coming back to 3 wouldn't suck that much either. But if you want Dark Hole banned, give me Mirror Force to 3.

-- Dark Ace SP ( Talk ) 02:48, October 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * I thought that Royal Oppression was a necessary evil to stop special summoning when it was at 1, but it got banned because, whether I want to admit it or not, virtually every deck in today's metagame loves to special summon constantly, so it had to go or the game wouldn't proceed. It would seem logical to take away the grave-stoppers for the same reason decks love to special summon, because they also like to use the graveyard, but I don't know how the TCG plans on doing that. The babies shouldn't come back unless their daddies get outright banned, because they'll just search them if the daddies are limited to 1. Heck, the daddy Rulers are STILL very playable even when they're limited to 1 because you can mix them with other dragon engines like Chaos Dragons, Dragunities, or Hieratics to tutor them out with Atum then make a lv 8 synchro with Dragunity Corseca, Flamvell Guard, or Veiler, not to mention Dragon Ravine can mill them. I already make lv 8 synchros very easily in my pure Hieratic build with Galaxy Serpent, they could easily run rulers to make them with Flamvell Guard (also searchable by Hieratic's effects). As much as I hate to say it, Rulers might have to die to make the game better. Ninety-eight (talk • contribs) 13:31, October 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * We could just leave the Rulers at 1 and the babies banned. -- Dark Ace SP ( Talk ) 14:30, October 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'd be fine with all of the Rulers at 1, but my point from before was even at 1 they can still be abused when thrown in with other Dragon engines. But for now, cutting the consistency as much as possible is the best thing to do I suppose. If variants of Rulers (Chaos Rulers, Dragunity Rulers, or Hieratic Rulers), still top tournaments after January, kill them. And kill them until there's nothing left. Ninety-eight (talk • contribs) 00:23, October 27, 2013 (UTC)


 * The only one I can see still doing something is Dragunity, but it's not really because of Tempest. (Assuming all get Limited). Rather, Dragunity will do well because of Ravine and a more resilient strategy. -- Dark Ace SP ( Talk ) 16:33, October 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * And...no surprise, Rulers win YET ANOTHER YCS. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if they outright kill that deck come January. Ninety-eight (talk • contribs) 21:40, October 29, 2013 (UTC)