Forum:Reasons why cards are Forbidden/Limited

List

 * From the creator of the "List of cards to side in to cripple meta decks", comes the...

[ Edit the list]


 * In case someone somehow missed it. Click "Show" on the right side of the bar.
 * This list is for the people who are curious about why certain cards are banned/limited.
 * This list can also assist people before posting a prediction on the next banlist.
 * Please help out by pointing out changes that should be made in the list (if any) (please include reasons).
 * Keep in mind that the TCG banlist is exactly the same as the OCG banlist (minus the OCG exclusives). So, reasons should be based on the OCG rulings. (adding a note to those would be appreciated, something like the one on Victory Dragon.)
 * And for those who are wondering. No, I didn't make this list recently. It been on 2 other forums before. This is the most updated version of it as the other 2 aren't being updated.
 * See also: Historic Forbidden/Limited Chart. 07:32, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

69.124.5.7 (talk) 15:57, November 7, 2012 (UTC)

= Discussion =

March 2013
The March 2013 banlist has been leaked on Shriek news. It's also on the Forum:March 2013 Banlist Predictions page. Here is everything:

Banned: Limited: Semi-Limited: Unlimited:
 * Sangan
 * Wind-up Carrier Zenmaighty
 * Wind-up Magician
 * One day of Peace
 * Solemn Warning
 * Advanced Ritual Art
 * Thunder King Rai-oh
 * Tsukuyomi
 * Spore
 * Blackwing - Kalut the moon shadow
 * Lumina, Lightsworn Summoner
 * Shien's Smoke Signal
 * Mind Crush

It won't be official until March 1st, but just posed it as a heads up. Don't change anything until then. 24.12.202.163 (talk) 16:40, February 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * And the list is now TCG official (http://www.yugioh-card.com/en/limited/index.html). Updated everything rescently, but not sure about where some cards should go, such as

Any thoughts on some of these? 24.12.202.163 (talk) 17:57, February 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * Thunder King - Maybe, say, Low Chance of ↓
 * Rabbit - Still not sure? maybe Low chance of ↑?
 * Tsukuyomi - perhaps Low Chance of ↓
 * Advanced Ritual Art - Not really sure on this one.
 * Smoke signal - maybe =, Low chance of ↑

Some opinion changes
I'd like to say Dark Strike Fighter should never come back, because it's too powerful. If you drop it in a Hazy deck, it's game over (As long as there's Rekindling around). I doubt this will be changed, but again, just an opinion.

I don't see why DMoC should remain banned, as the only reason why he's banned is because of the Dimension Fusion loop, and that card is banned for good. So I think DMoC has a low chance of getting himself unbanned, and if he gets unbanned, then Dimension Fusion should never come back. (Even without DMoC, this card is too powerful)

Black Luster Soldier, IMO, isn't going to get hit anytime soon, so I guess it should stay at 1 for now. (But, chances are, it's going to get banned eventually)

Dark Armed should stay at one, it's only broken when there's more than one copy. However, it's not powerful enough to get himself banned.

Deck Devastation Virus is fine at 3, although it can be better than Crush Card Virus, as it takes out a lot of important cards (I.e: Tour guide, Rescue Rabbit, ect...)

24.164.39.82 (talk) 22:04, February 22, 2013 (UTC) Anonymous

I'm not sure what should be on the unsure cards, since they could go either way, though most of them will probrably come down from where they are, except for Rabbit.

I wouldn't want to say DSF is never, ever going to come back, but chances are it won't happen for a while no matter what, if ever. He (along with some former cards and other cards that would folow) went from 3 to 0 instantly. Trying him at one first would've probrably been a better move back then, but I personally don't think DSF is coming back either way.

BLS will probrably get re-banned someday, but probrably not until Konami designs some stupid card that can overly-abuse him (like Uniflora, Mythical Beast of the Forest for Rescue Cat...main reason why it's never coming back). I agree DAD is fine where he is, so long as some old cards (like the aforementioned D-Fusion), don't come back.

DMoC can't come back because there's always going to be some ridiculous OTK/FTK loop someone comes up with him. Being able to reuse a spell card no one wants to see more than once per duel (and at no cost with DMoC) is gamebreaking enough as it is, but there are countless ways to special summon him; cards like Escape from the Dark Dimension, Different Dimension Reincarnation, Return from the Different Dimension, Monster Reborn (then return Reborn to your hand)...it doesn't matter if Dimension Fusion is banned, someone will find a way to spam/abuse DMoC if he comes back, and we're back to square one again. As a matter of fact, with Prophecies getting stronger at the moment due to the release of the Divine Judgment of the Spellbooks spell card, I personally would call DMoC a never.

I could see Deck Devy getting hit again at some point, due to the increasing number of decks that rely on weaker monsters (Sangan ban, hint hint), but the only deck it's really seen in is Dark Worlds, which aren't topping anyways. If it sees more play in other decks which are topping I think a chance of going up would be necessary for Deck Devy. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 00:42, February 23, 2013 (UTC)

Mass Driver is banned, Dark Strike is a Mass Driver/Cannon Soldier on steroids. And with decks that can drop high level monsters without a sweat drop (Example: Haze decks), it should stay banned.

As for DMoC: Dimension Fusion can return to the hand via DMoC's effect, this is what made him overpowered. Escape from the Dark Dimension is a trap, and it's definitely not useful. Dimension Reincarnation has a discard cost, it still won't make any difference as it can't create a loop. Return is the exact same reason for Escape, it's a trap card; not a spell card. How could you abuse Reborn if DMoC is banished when it leaves the field? Imperial Iron Wall is just a silly logic: If that's what you're saying, then by that logic: Imperial Iron Wall is broken; Not DMoC (Quillbot Hedgehog loop?). Those are just silly reasons, no offense. As for the Prophecies growing powerful, we'll just see when they're topping, but this lately: It isn't. (Mainly because they're ridiculously expensive) I've checked out Spellbook of Judgment, still no differences on DMoC's major impact.

I doubt DDV will get hit, as it's a replacement for CCV. But yeah, Dark World are one of the few decks that uses DDV. Still don't think it will ever get hit IMO. 24.164.39.82 (talk) 03:59, February 23, 2013 (UTC) Anonymous
 * I'm not exactly saying DMoC will be abused by every one of those cards, but my point is, it creates many deadly loops and combos by itself, and someone will, and probrably won't be afraid to, find a way to spam him even without Dimension Fusion. I mean, being able to reuse any one of your limited spells for free (Avarice, Storm, Hole, Reborn, Mind Control, Book of Moon, Allure of Darkness, ect) is something I (and many others) just can't get over. D-Fusion can't create as many loops with DMoC anyways since 2000 LP is quite a hefty cost to use it and your opponent may benefit from it too. Not to say D-Fusion isn't broken (it shouldn't come back), but just because D-Fusion is banned doesn't mean DMoC isn't broken anymore. The Imperial Iron Wall+DMoC+Monster Reborn+Cannon Soldier otk is just one of many otk's/loops I can see him doing if he comes back (again, not saying Iron Wall is the problem, but DMoC is). And yes DDR has a discard cost, but DMoC then returns a spell card from your graveyard to your hand, so it basically becomes a costless card that can revive him, much better than D-Fusion. I'd be more than happy to run 3 of those if DMoC came back. While Prophecy decks are expensive, I don't want to think DMoC won't have a major impact on the deck because it probrably will, most of us don't see it though. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 13:24, February 23, 2013 (UTC)

How would it combo and loop itself? Again, I still see no point of his abuse. All of the cards that can SS monsters from the banished zone is just a silly reason: I don't see how any of them can create FTK/OTKs with DMoC. You can't reuse a lot of limited spell cards for "free", he needs to be tribute summon or ss using certain cards. Besides, Magical Stone Excavation is a better option than DMoC's effect, and it's not even banned (But Semi-Limited of course). Any cards that Special summons him requires a cost: DoL&D needs a Dark Magician on the field (Or someone who's named is Dark Magician); A crap ton of cards that can summon him NEEDS a cost. And, about D-Fusion's cost: People used Spell Economics to bypass his cost, part of the reasons why people abuse the crap out of him. Why are you bringing up the Imperial Iron Wall and Reborn argument? Ever heard of a Quillbolt Loop? http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Quillbolt_Loop Again, by that logic, Imperial Iron Wall is broken; Not DMoC. That, and that loop is too slow for the meta. Dimension Reincarnation ITSELF is an EQUIP spell card, yes, it brings back a spell card as a replacement for the cost, but you can't keep doing the same move every time like D-Fusion. Prophecies are powerful, that I have to agree with, but they're quite slow, not even DMoC can help speed up the deck. (Mainly because most of the spells has a "Activate this card once per turn" condition)

Overall, DMoC is still slow for the current meta, and I doubt he would become broken. And yes, someone will try to find a way to make him deadly, but, guaranteed, they will fail. 24.164.39.82 (talk) 14:41, February 23, 2013 (UTC) Anonymous
 * Just to clarify what I said, I never said people WOULD definitely use those cards for sure if DMoC did return, but my point was DMoC isn't "not good anymore" just because D-Fusion is banned. No one runs Magical Stone Excavation anymore; Discarding 2 cards from your hand to use it is a cost that is too steep for most of today's decks to handle; it's probrably going to come up to 3 at some point in the future, maybe September 2013 format. I personally have a hard time believing there won't be something gamebreaking about a powerful lv 8 monster that let's you reuse any spell card from your graveyard every time it's special summoned, and banishes any monster it destroys in battle. I agree that DMoC would not be as broken as he was before with Dimension Fusion now banned, but that doesn't mean DMoC can come back and not impact the meta that much. You may not see it, but there is going to be some annoying loop someone will come up with DMoC if he comes back, and I would rather not find out what it is. The whole point behind this was in the list above, DMoC is listed as "Very Low". Would you prefer to change that to "Low" instead? I know he wouldn't be as good as he was before, but again, that doesn't mean he "wouldn't be good" if he came back. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 19:41, February 23, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I'm aware that very few people runs Magical Stone these days, I'm just saying it's basically like DMoC, but a better option to regain/reuse spells than him. All what I'm trying to say, is that DMoC only had a single powerful card that can create his loop. Besides, he's not a Chaos Emperor Dragon; he's just another monster that's too slow and isn't broken for this current meta. I've never said he's not a good monster though; I'm just saying, that he isn't going to create an impact to the meta now. Besides, DMoC is banished when he leaves, and there's very little cards that can bring him back from the banished zone, so like I said: Making a loop with DMoC again is going to be IMPOSSIBLE, and even if it's possible, it's definitely going to be extremely slow. In other words: Whoever will try to find a way to create a "new" DMoC loop... well... good luck for him/her. 24.164.39.82 (talk) 00:52, February 24, 2013 (UTC) Anonymous
 * It isn't impossible to create loops with DMoC, but you're right, it would be slow. One example of an FTK loop with him would be something like this:


 * On your first turn, Hand Destruction DMoC and Mezuki. Then normal summon Cannon Soldier and activate Zombie World. Banish Mezuki from your grave to bring DMoC back, tribute DMoc with Cannon Soldier (DMoC is banished) to do 500 damage. Then activate Burial from the different Dimension to return DMoC and Mezuki to your graveyard. Banish Mezuki again to bring DMoC back again, return Burial to your hand with DMoC's effect, tribute him again with Cannon Soldier for 500 more damage, repeat until Victory.

Again, such a loop is situational and not always consistent (like the Ouroboros hand loop in six sams), but it still exists nontheless and Konami hates OTK's and FTK's (well, we all do), so they hit the cards that can do the loops. Hell Magician of Faith is more likely to be unbanned than DMoC because flip effect monsters will most likely be blown up before they get a chance to use their effects in today's metagame. DMoC is spammable and can create annoying loops with certain spell cards, and even though DMoC may come back, I wouldn't expect it to happen myself nontheless. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 14:38, February 24, 2013 (UTC)

You'd be lucky if you managed to draw Zombie World, DMoC, Mezuki, Hand Destruction, and Burial from the DD. DMoC, Mezuki, and Burial are at ONE (Well... if DMoC will ever get unbanned, then it will most likely go to 1), and you have a ratio of 3/40 chance of drawing the cards you needed. That's like saying I can draw all 5 pieces of Exodia first turn. I'm going to keep saying this for the last time: It's IMPOSSIBLE to create a DMoC loop now. Even if there are cards that can create a DMoC loop, it's just going to become too slow for the current meta. Besides, we have a ton of loops that are faster and powerful than DMoC, like the Evigiski Mind Augus, 2 Garunix, and even the Lightpulsar + REDMD. So I'll stop repeating this, until it's understood. Besides, he isn't a threat to the Meta, he isn't a Chaos Emperor Dragon, and Magician of Fate is faster on retrieving spell cards from the Graveyard than DMoC. (Especially when Tsukuyomi is unbanned.) So it wouldn't matter HOW you can create his loop, but rather WHEN. Yet, I keep saying this over and over again: There's only FEW cards that can bring DMoC back from the graveyard, so there's still no evidence that he can create havoc in the meta. No more, and no less. 24.164.39.82 (talk) 16:39, February 24, 2013 (UTC) Anonymous
 * You're right, I agree with you on the fact if someone tried to create a new spell loop with DMoC it most likely wouldn't be very consistent. However, that doesn't mean they don't exist. However, that's only my opinion, and my opinion is my own. I have to disagree with your comment on Magician of Faith though; you're much more likely to create a spell loop with DMoC than you are with Magician of Faith (no one even runs Tsukuyomi to begin with, so pointless to mention it), and it could die by a card effect (no surprise in today's meta) before it's flipped anyways. The Shallow Grave and Book of Taiyou also exist for Magician of Faith, but like Tsukuyomi, no one runs them in the first place either. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 22:49, February 24, 2013 (UTC)

Ceasefire
Only problem I have with this is that it says Ceasefire needs a face-down monster to be activated, which isn't true. All the rulings I've found say it can be used for a face-up or face-down monster. --MasterMarik (talk • contribs) 20:49, March 11, 2013 (UTC)

Undecided cards
Does anyone have opinions on what should go in the undecided cards? Like T.G. Striker or Tsukuyomi or Thunder King? I'd say all of them with a chance of coming down, but I'm not sure if that's what'll happen to T-King. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 22:59, April 20, 2013 (UTC)


 * Tsukuyomi has a high chance of coming down, and Striker maybe come down but T-King is going nowhere but up. DexxIsBack (talk • contribs) 21:46, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'd say Tsukuyomi could come down to 3, but it depends; I haven't seen it do much myself, but I could be wrong if it goes to 3. No one ran more than 2 TKRO's to begin with, so it's pointless for it to stay at 2. Either it goes to 3 to keep the meta in check, or it goes to 1 so the meta can take over. I'd personally prefer it go to 3, but it's debatable. T.G. Agents aren't what they once were, so I could see Striker come down. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 23:13, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

September 2013
http://shriek.twoday.net/topics/Banned+Lists/ The September 2013 banlist is confirmed. Here is everything:

Banned:


 * Burner, Dragon Ruler of Sparks 「炎征竜－バーナー」
 * Stream, Dragon Ruler of Droplets 「水征竜－ストリーム」
 * Reactan, Dragon Ruler of Pebbles 「地征竜－リアクタン」
 * Lightning, Dragon Ruler of Drafts 「風征竜－ライトニング」
 * Spellbook of Judgment 「魔導書の神判」

Limited:


 * Genex Ally Birdman 「Ａ・ジェネクス・バードマン」
 * Wind-Up Shark 「ゼンマイシャーク」
 * Mermail - Abyssteus「水精鱗－ディニクアビス」
 * Brotherhood of the Fire Fist - Rooster 「立炎星－トウケイ」
 * Number 11: Big Eye 「Ｎｏ．１１ ビッグ・アイ」
 * Trishula, Dragon of the Ice Barrier 「氷結界の龍 トリシューラ」
 * Super Rejuvenation 「超再生能力」
 * Divine Wind of Mist Valley 「霞の谷の神風」
 * Abyss-sphere 「アビスフィアー」

Semi-Limited:


 * Chaos Sorcerer 「カオス・ソーサラー」
 * Gladiator Beast Bestiari 「剣闘獣ベストロウリィ」
 * Neo-Spacian Grand Mole 「Ｎ・グラン・モール」
 * Gorz the Emissary of Darkness 「冥府の使者ゴーズ」
 * Fire Formation - Tenki 「炎舞－「天キ」
 * Black Whirlwind 「黒い旋風」

Unlimited:


 * Wind-Up Magician 「ゼンマイマジシャン」
 * Tsukuyomi 「月読命」
 * E - Emergency Call 「Ｅ－エマージェンシーコール」
 * Advanced Ritual Art 「高等儀式術」
 * Pot of Duality 「強欲で謙虚な壺」
 * Scapegoat 「スケープ・ゴート」
 * Reasoning 「名推理」
 * Mirror Force 「聖なるバリア－ミラーフォース－」

I've updated the list to include everything, but I'm not sure what to say for some of them. Ninety-eight (talk • contribs) 14:35, August 16, 2013 (UTC)