Forum:Institute for Proper Deck Building Skills

General Information/Mission Statement
I, Dark Ace SP, have retired from being a deckbuilder for Decks for Free! and this new forum page is something I've come to the conclusion that we need. The purpose of this forum page is 2 pronged, while I like making decks for people, I noticed that people just can't seem to build a proper deck, and that's why they would ask us to do it. While I love the service Lappyzard is now continuing, I think it's also important to help people actually get better at deckbuilding, rather than just being given a deck. Proper deckbuilding is a skill that every duelist should have.

The second reason for this page is that some people won't want to work at getting better and will just continue to use Decks for Free!, the only problem is all the deckbuilders will eventually have to leave for one reason or another, so Decks for Free! will always need more staff. So, if this forum page can help you get better at making real decks that work, then you would feel more comfortable making decks for others, and you might apply to become a Decks for Free! staff member.

This page is mostly like the deck help forum, the only difference is that I will reply and give you my thoughts, and won't let your request go unanswered. I've had the experience to make decks for almost 2 years for deck ideas that were odd or really just out of the mainstream, so what I tell you is based on that. Take in mind, that doesn't mean all duelists are bad or horrible deckbuilders, but some people do feel like they need help to get better, and that's what this page is for, to help you on a personal level, with someone who has gained experience from working with talented people, and would like to pass that on.

I will not make decks on request, only help you make your idea come to life.

General Procedure
Much like how Decks for Free! works, I'd like the people who want help to make a new section, then I can start to help you get better at deckbuilding. Please make a new request by using this link. Just remember to have a user account and know how to sign your posts. You should also know how to use the Template:Decklist. You should know that you will make the deck, and I will give you feedback, but I hope you can get better, that's the end goal.

How would I help you get better?
I would help you make a deck of your own choosing, but I'd only give you my own thoughts and what I think can be changed to give the deck as much focus as possible. I won't make your deck for you, but I will try to guide you to a deck that you think works for you. I'll only take a few people at a time, and I do want to help people who want a hands on experience at getting better.

-- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )

General Deckbuilding Guidelines

 * Deck Building 101

Request Archives
= Requests =

Finished - HEROES
Hi This is a HERO deck that I've been trying out and it's worked fantastically

Is this good VyomoVyomo (talk • contribs) 08:02, September 19, 2012 (UTC)

Well, your not running Elemental HERO Stratos, so that's like a huge mistake right there. R - Righteous Justice, H - Heated Heart, and O - Oversoul just plain suck, really they do, and Hero Flash!! is just too damn situational. Polymerization is also just crap to use now-a-days, it's a huge -2 in card presence, and if your Fusion gets killed by a Bottomless Trap Hole or Compulsory Evacutaion Device, then your've just taken a -4. Most HERO duelists have abandoned that way of making a HERO deck because it's just too much loss of card presence if your HERO Fusion get's killed or removed from the field, which is really easy to do with 2 Torrential Tribute, 2 Mirror Force, 2 Bottomless Trap Hole, and Dark Hole, plus popular tech cards like Compulsory Evacuation Device/Dimensional Prison. Most of us have moved on to Miracle Fusion, you don't lose any card presence, because you just lost monsters in the grave, which you really didn't have use for besides becoming Miracle fodder, and it combos really well with Elemental HERO The Shining, Elemental HERO Voltic (Voltic combos well with other Voltic and Stratos), and to a lesser extent Parallel World Fusion, but people only run maybe just 1 of that if they really want to, as it makes Shining's effect less useful. Most people also only run 2 Super Poly, as 3 clogs and such.

Destiny HERO - Defender, Elemental HERO Woodsman (Don't use regular Poly it sucks!!!) and Elemental HERO Bladedge are fairly useless, and most people only run 1 Necroshade if they plan on using Neos. There's actually a really great way to get a free Elemental HERO Neos out from just 2 cards. Use Summoner Monk -> Special Summon Elemental HERO Prisma, use Prisma to dump a Elemental HERO Neos into the graveyard, overlay Monk and Prisma for Daigusto Emeral, use Emeral's effect to summon the Neos in grave, a quick way to get 4300 ATK on the board in a flash, and even better if you have a Mircale Fusion in hand.

Desperate Tag, Hero Barrier, and Hero Signal? Why? Just remove the monster BEFORE it can hurt you with a Dimensional Prison. Fake Hero is also just plain useless, it's outclassed by A Hero Lives.

So overall, based on my 3-5 years of playing Elemental HERO decks competitively, the deck really isn't that great, and it seems like you hit a bunch of beginner HERO duelist potholes. Just how I see it.

Also, there are about maybe 4-5 different variants or ways to play Elemental HERO, so yeah.

-- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  03:33, September 20, 2012 (UTC)

Hi Bladedge is good only because I can get Plasma Vice with it, because Plasma Vice is an amazing fusion. I only have Parallel World Fusion because of Fusion Gate, because it can make some really good combos. Also, I've decided to run 1 polymerization because it can help me swarm the field and gather material in the graveyard for Divine Neos Woodsman has really good defense, can even beat Rai-Oh and Firedog which can be crucial, if it stays a turn, a free Terra Firma Also, finally got Miracle Contact, so have added it


 * Drop D - Time, Hero Signal, and Hero Barrier for 2 Solemn Warning and another Bottomless, also drop Defender for another A Hero Lives. --Ace

Did that,but did not drop Defender because it can be a very good defender and a target for HERO's Bond which I FINALLY managed to procure online!

Also, Signal is decent and can get me a Woodsman to defend and serves as a backup if Dimensional Prison is negated by Dolkka or Laggia or Shi-En.


 * Why not just run 2 Summoner Monk? Most of the HEROes are Level 4 or less. Also, add in staples like MST or Forbidden Lance. You'll need it as we're going into a heavy backrow type format again. -Ace

Finished - GB Deck Help for a Friend
It's me again, this time with a deck for a friend that I've been wanting to help him streamline. He runs pure GB, and I'm not too familiar with them, aside from how badly he kicks my butt with them, so I'm pretty much going in blind on this. I've read suggestions online, but they prove confusing. Ultimately, this is the deck that I came up for him on, but he's concerned that with 16 monsters, he's not going to be able to get out the monsters he needs. I need you to help allay his fears and figure out what's wrong with this deck and how to fix it. Any suggestions would be helpful, even suggestions for Tigerless GBs, as long as it stays as pure GB (so no AHL/Prisma plays, please). Thanks. Vorpal Storm Pony (talk • contribs) 23:06, September 22, 2012 (UTC)

Well, I don't like the looks of it off the bat. When people use Gladiator Beasts in today's metagame, they don't pick it because it's a fast deck that kills the opponent really fast (Granted it can happen at times with Gyzarus), but people mostly play Gladiator Beasts because the deck plays to a slower and more controlling pace.

Anyway, I can assure him that decks with low monster counts are successful (HERO for example can win and always have a monster ready with a max monster count of 12-13 monsters). HERO helps to alleviate it's low monster count by using the lot of search spells, and your friend should do the same, so run 3 Gladiator Proving Ground.

My recommendations would be:

Drop:
 * Drop Gladiator Beast Samnite - It's up to you, but it's really not needed with 3 Proving Ground.
 * Both Gladiator Beast Secutor - His effect might be great, but his low attack really doesn't help him.
 * Drop theGladiator Beast's Respite - It seems like a great card, but you it's really like Moray of Greed and Reload, your just trading good monsters for stuff that might not help you.
 * Gladiator Beast's Battle Archfiend Shield - Equips spells are generally bad, only a few good Equip spells actually exist, and the Gladiator series isn't one of them.
 * Drop Double Tag Team - We want to make sure our Glads get their effect when they are summoned, and Tag Team won't let them gain their effects, don't worry we can still cover for our Glads with some better cards.
 * Drop Trap Stun - He won't need it, with 2 MST and 2 Dark Bribe, 2 Trap Stun is a little bit much, don't worry I have a better card in mind to replace it.
 * So far we've drop 11 cards, that gives us quite a bit of breathing room for better cards.

Add::
 * 1 Neo-Spacian Grand Mole - Out of the pure Glad theme, but it really helps Glads by making it easy for them to attack and it gets rid of annoying and powerful monsters, that Glads can't really run over.
 * 2 Forbidden Lance - It can protect our monsters from being taken out by a Torrential Tribute or Mirror Force, and it can help our Gladiators run over stuff in battle, that's a really versatile card, and it's just worth the card space in Glads.
 * 1 Gladiator Proving Ground - Consistency is KING.
 * 1 Solemn Judgment - It's a Staple, and it's worth the LP cost (The cost is actually fair, as you pay more if your winning, than if your losing), plus it's going to make sure your Gyzarus play isn't nerfed by a Solemn Warning, or stop that game-winning summon of a boss monster. It's worth the space, and decks run it if they can.
 * 2 Solemn Warning - As I said before, Glads used today are more of a control oriented deck that strives to take away the opponent's ability to fight over the course of a duel.
 * 1 Mirror Force - You may as well enjoy the semi-limited status, if you don't want to, run either a Compulsory Evacuation Device or a Dimensional Prison.
 * 2 Waboku - It triggers the Glads effects, but save you from taking damage and losing Life Points, and a cool way to set up a Gladiator Gyzarus play for your turn during your opponent's turn. (Usually players commit monsters to the field and then attack, and most won't be prepared for Glads that can't be killed in battle, and they probably won't kill all the monsters they took time to summon, if that monster is useful.)
 * Add 1 X Card - Run either a Starlight Road, Dimensional Prison, or Compulsory Evacuation Device depending on your tastes for the last card.

-- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  00:18, September 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * No go on removing the Secutors; he considers them to be the ace in his deck; he loves going into Secutor from a Tigered GB for a one-turn Gyzarus or Heraklinos, and he'd freak if it was taken out entirely. Also not sure if he'll take to Grand Mole, but I'll talk to him about it. I know he hates the Solemns, because of their high LP cost, but I think I can turn him around to them, if I can convince him they do well in my Tiger Stun deck and they'll work well in his deck, as well. As for Waboku... I do have a few he could borrow, but he's already got Defensive Tactics in his deck, and since it's pure GB, I'm wondering if he's better off just using those, instead. He jsut got a CED today, so I can convince him of using it in his deck in lieu of a second Mirror Force. Vorpal Storm Pony (talk • contribs) 00:32, September 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * Tactics can work, it fulfills that role. Hmm...Secutors are just really bad truthfully, and he has Test Tiger and Darius to make Gyrzarus, but if he can't part with a 400 ATK monster, try to run a few more defensive traps, like Dimensional Prison (Sakuretsu Armor can work too). -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  01:37, September 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * Secutor, in his hands, really is his ace, from what I've experienced, but I agree that he shouldn't rely on it too much, which is why I cut a Secutor from his usual 3. What would you suggest for a Tigerless build? He and I've been talking about it, but we don't know how well we can make one. Vorpal Storm Pony (talk • contribs) 01:46, September 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * Okay, after talking to my friend, we made a few changes to the deck. We're going to test out Infected Mail, but so far, it doesn't look to be that great, so any suggestions on what to replace it with would be appreciated. Vorpal Storm Pony (talk • contribs) 00:29, September 26, 2012 (UTC)


 * Post up the newest version you've come up with. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  01:33, September 26, 2012 (UTC)


 * It's in the original post, I edited it so it wouldn't take up more room. Vorpal Storm Pony (talk • contribs) 02:01, September 26, 2012 (UTC)


 * Add in a 3rd Gladiator Proving Ground, and drop 1 Test Tiger, 3 is overkill, like really overkill. I would also replace Gladiator Beast's Battle Archfiend Shield and Gladiator Beast's Battle Manica with Forbidden Lance, they don't really suck too much, but Lance at least helps them run over stuff instead of just surviving and going back to the deck. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  02:05, September 26, 2012 (UTC)


 * We can't get a hold of Lance, and the equips have been doing well for him, in tests, so for now, we're keeping them. And, honestly, if we wanted to run over monsters with power, we could just add in Indomitable Gladiator Beast and call it good; just about does the same thing, really. Vorpal Storm Pony (talk • contribs) 02:08, September 26, 2012 (UTC)

Well, we put in Indomitable Gladiator Beast, and he's been getting some awesome use out of it, so we're likely going to use it above Forbidden Lance. Secutor at 1 for his deck doesn't seem to be working very well, so we're thinking of adding back a second one, just for more consistency, maybe replacing a second Test Tiger. Interestingly, with the way he plays GB, we're thinking 16 monsters is too little; even with the draw and searching power, he ends up with a lot of instances where he pulls nothing but spells and traps and can't do anything. Got any suggestions to fix that? Vorpal Storm Pony (talk • contribs) 19:39, September 28, 2012 (UTC)


 * I can't really think of anything to help with the consistency, maybe Upstart Goblin or Pot of Duality? As for Secutor, if he needs 2, then use 2, just make sure to back it up with a few traps, you can probably drop 1 Tiger for it. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  00:55, September 30, 2012 (UTC)

Finished - Yuma deck.
Hey its me, I wanted to build my own yuma deck. Here it is:



I really need ur advice on this deck. Thank you! Guardmaster (talk • contribs) 01:53, September 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * Could you just use a Template? I don't really want to look up a few cards. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  02:03, September 23, 2012 (UTC)

There. Howzat? Guardmaster (talk • contribs) 13:15, September 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * Better. Let me look it over before I give comments. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  13:39, September 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * Why not use Photon Thrasher over Kagetokage? I mean they both kinda serve the same purpose, but Thrasher is more versatile, plus Kagetokage can't really do anything without a Level 4 to go with it, in the worst case for Thrasher, it can be a 2100 Beater. I'd also add in a 3rd Giant (2000 ATK is killer). ZW - Unicorn Spear is good and all, but you can drop it, truthfully, another Thrasher or Giant would be better, plus they have higher ATK. Hmm, would you ever want to use Xyz Reborn? I think it might be better than Relect, but that's just me. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  01:45, September 26, 2012 (UTC)

I followed ur advice, and took out reflect and kagetokage, and added reborn, Thrasher, and another giant. I still need some support cards like Mystic Tomato and such Guardmaster (talk • contribs) 13:10, September 26, 2012 (UTC)


 * Actually, there might be a way to make it have a toolbox thing to it, and keep the Gagaga, but you might have to drop the Gogogo cards. Go see Forum: Deck Contest 24: ZEXAL Archetypes, we did Gagaga as an archetype in that contest, and you might get some ideas from the 2 Gagaga decks that are posted there. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  01:37, September 27, 2012 (UTC)

I added more of a chaos theme to my yuma deck, with BLS in there. I also teched in the powerful DAD as well as making room for Tour guide. Hows that? Ill test it too. Guardmaster (talk • contribs) 18:38, September 28, 2012 (UTC)

Test #1:

I summoned my force focus on my first turn through a gagaga/monk/resonance combo. The opponent managed to take control of it vy creature swaping it with warm worm, but i played mirror force to save myself. I then played TGU and summoned sangan, then overlayed TGU with the swapped worm to summon leviathan dragon, and detached warm worm w/ eff, then banished monk and focus to summon BLS and directed attack him. He then attempted to destroy my monster with sakeretsu, but i MST it and that was game. It was a sigle duel btw. any issues so far? Guardmaster (talk • contribs) 14:09, September 29, 2012 (UTC)

Test #2

I set goblinbergh, as it is the only monster in my hand and set Torrential, Judgement, and MST.my opponent sets a monster and Book of Eclipse. which i destroyed with MST. I then attacked the set monster, which is D.d. assasailant. he plays Future vision, but i solemned it. he then destroys goblin with d.d. I summoned sangan and used torrential tribute to destroy both monster, and i added gagaga magician with sangan's effect. i Reborned goblin and attacked directly withit On my next turn i was able to summon utopia with the summoner monk i normal summoned and goblinbergh, but not before summoning gagaga girl with monk eff, in order to summon magi magi magician gal next turn with it and the magician in my hand, but the opponent forfeited and left before i could do that. Guardmaster (talk • contribs) 14:29, September 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * Seems like it's working for you, but in game 1, you MST the Set Armor right, since MST can't be used to stop Armor once it has been activated. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  15:04, September 29, 2012 (UTC)

any other suggestions? Guardmaster (talk • contribs) 16:32, September 29, 2012 (UTC)

I edited the above list. I just took out kaiser and included Chaos Sorcerer. also, heres a side:


 * I think you can drop 1 Kycoo and the Transmigration Prophecy for 2 System Down, Machines are kinda big this year. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  00:20, September 30, 2012 (UTC)

Finished - Malefic Orichalcos
So i have here a Malefic Orichalcos deck as i want to try them out. Its like the Malefic Geartown with Necrovalley but splashed The Seal too. One problem is that when i activate The Seal when AGGD is present then AGGD will die. So i am thinking of removing the Geartown but i do not know what to put. Malefic World maybe? Hmmm so i also need your thoughts with this. Thanks for the help Ace SharkTenjo 02:35, September 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * I actually think it looks fine, the Seal is just 1 card, and even if it dose kinda interfere with AGGD, you probably summoned that AGGD for free, besides a 4500 ATK MCED is better. I'm not really sure about the 3 Trade-In, but you have like 8 targets for go for it. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  01:35, September 26, 2012 (UTC)


 * But i always draw it and with Terraforming too. SharkTenjo 11:25, September 26, 2012 (UTC)


 * Maybe drop 1 Terraforming, it's important to get a field spell, but you have a total of 6 actual field spells + 3 Terraforming + 3 Trade-In + 1 Allure of Darkness, you can probably drop 1 Terraforming. As for other field spells, what did you have in mind? I mean only Necrovalley is really great, and besides that there isn't much else.
 * On a side note, it might be that you just had a few bad draws with that. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  01:33, September 27, 2012 (UTC)

Finished - Fleur
I now want to build a fleur deck based around chevalier and fleur synchron. I need some ideas for support and strategy Guardmaster (talk • contribs) 00:46, September 30, 2012 (UTC)


 * Hmm, I can't think of any. The Fleur series really just kinda isn't amazing, the bosses are great, but the other 2 aren't. If you just wanted a Sorciere de Fleur deck, then I'd tell you to make Prophecy. But all of them together just kinda scream Chaos Spellcaster Village, with a few Magical Dimension. Or you could mill the Sorciere de Fleur out of the deck and then revive with Spellbook of Life. -- - Dark Ace SP  ( Talk )  01:00, September 30, 2012 (UTC)

I've got an idea. Maybe we can make use of instant fusion to summon a lv 6 fusion to tune with fleur synchron, and possibly add some useful level 2 monsters as well Guardmaster (talk • contribs) 15:31, September 30, 2012 (UTC)


 * I'd still use Spellcaster Village with it, but anyway Sanwitch is the only Fusion that is level 6 and a Spellcaster. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  00:54, October 1, 2012 (UTC)

Any good level 2 or lower monsters to use? Guardmaster (talk • contribs) 18:54, October 1, 2012 (UTC)


 * Use Konami's Card Database. Anyway, there Apprentice Magician, Magicat, Saambell the Summoner, and Old Vindictive Magician to name a few Level 2 Spellcasters. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  22:15, October 1, 2012 (UTC)

Actually, screw the spellcaster thing. I'm stil doing instant fusion, but now I'm doing warriors. There ARE plenty of level 2 and lower warriors. Any good ones to use. P. S. Im searching the database for them Guardmaster (talk • contribs) 18:32, October 5, 2012 (UTC)

I was able to build a deck, but i need help maintaining consistency

basically, all the lv 2 and lower monster either have to do with disruption, stalling, or for synchro summoning, backed up by various traps and staple spells. Guardmaster (talk • contribs) 19:13, October 5, 2012 (UTC)

What about something like this?

-- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  22:42, October 5, 2012 (UTC)

any problems with the extra first? Guardmaster (talk • contribs) 22:43, October 5, 2012 (UTC)

cant fond anything i dislike about the deck. I just found out that instant fusion only works for lv 5 or lower, but that can easily be solved by little trooper. Next time, try not to post a full decklist, unless u really want to Guardmaster (talk • contribs) 23:19, October 5, 2012 (UTC)

Make the extra deck as versatile as possible, just because we're using Tuners doesn't mean that we can't have a couple of cool Xyz monsters. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  02:25, October 6, 2012 (UTC)

Syuta Hayami
The next deck i've decided to build was a syut hayami deck.

The deck's focus is to summon lv 6 machines in order to summon force focus. Again, I need help on the consistency of the main deck, then I'll move onto the extra Guardmaster (talk • contribs) 23:45, October 5, 2012 (UTC)

Hmm...not sure if Gears are the best way to go about this. Let me think on it. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  02:28, October 6, 2012 (UTC)