Forum:Moving the Wiki to Curse Networks

I address this to all users of this Wikia, both SysOp, Registered, and Unregistered.

I know that I have not been around personally much over the recent past, however, my dedication to the fans of this great game remains unwaivered by the passage of time, and I always do all that I can to look out for not only the interests of this wiki, but the users of it, too.

I have come to propose that we move away from Wikia to Curse Networks. Curse are as passionate about games as we are about playing them, and we would make a natural partner for them.

I'm sure many of you have noticed that the skin that Wikia operates, and refuses to deactivate, has led to many Wikis seeking better hosting, Wowpedia being a notable casualty. The new skin is also driven to increase revenue for Wikia, while at the same time decreasing the quality of the content we have to offer.

The road after we've moved won't be as easy as turning on a switch. We stand to lose some things if we move.

What we Lose

 * Shared Login with Wikia. Curse would operate their own Login system independent of Wikia.
 * Monaco would be *gone*. We would instead have a much friendlier skin system that complements our card article pages.
 * Ads. Curse's goal is for every Wiki to be as add-free as possible. We might not *completely* get rid of ads, but they would be far less intrusive than they are now.
 * Avatars, Facebook Connect, MyHome and the like, all of the Wikia social features would be gone.
 * The automated welcome bot would be gone. If there is enough interest, Curse may code one for us.
 * The Rich Text Editor would be gone. CategorySelect (easy-add/remove categories) would be gone too.
 * "Following" articles would likely change to "Watching" as per the standard Wiki terminology for MediaWiki.
 * Shared help - help pages from the Wikia Help wiki - would not be available.
 * It is worth noting that Wikia would retain a copy of all content on their server at the same location.
 * We will inevitably lose some users, but I hope the vast majority of you will join us in this transition.

But we also stand to gain things.

What we would gain

 * Site speed. Far less extensive and latency-prone squid caching means faster page accesses.
 * Stability. No unannounced code changes to MediaWiki code, for example.
 * More direct control over the backend of the site means upgrades and extension additions will go much faster.
 * Account renaming would be far simpler, especially for users who wanted to pick up their old name after the Wiki move.

What we would keep the same

 * Every byte of content stays the same. Images and Articles both included, including edit histories.
 * SemanticMediaWiki would remain, and would continue to power the heart of the site.
 * All relevant extensions will be kept.
 * Any relevant JavaScript and CSS code will be kept.
 * Rules, Policies, and User Rights should all remain the same.
 * I will endeavour to ensure that a stable Mobile skin be available for use.

I will be here to answer any and all questions posed by users, and to help allay any fears that this move will ultimately present.--TwoTailedFox (My Talk Page) 19:36, November 17, 2012 (UTC)

Comments
Hmmm... I would like to see that they have to offer first. Can you give me a direct link to something Curse Networks has so that I can fiddle around on there? (The only association I have ever had with Curse before this was Minecraft, and it just seems devoted to videogames, not necessarily card games.) Also, what would happen to the wikia in the meantime? Would the site be shutdown? 1 other thing... In lieu of categories, how would we be able to arrange things in lists, like the monsters that could be searched via "Sangan" for example? --UltimateKuriboh (talk • contribs) 20:05, November 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Categories would still exist, but the extension CategorySelect would be unavailable, which is not a major loss. The SMW searching functionality would also remain. As for something that Curse operates, Wowpedia is one of their largest acquisitions, and go a long way to proving that Curse know how to take care of Wikis under their command.
 * I can't reveal *too* much about their plans, but know this: We fit in perfectly for what they have planned next.--TwoTailedFox (My Talk Page) 20:08, November 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Hmmmm this seems good; I think it's great that the layout for Wowpedia looks very similar (if not identical) to this wikia. What new domain name would our wikia go under? Also, would it be alright for me to suggest this idea to 1 other wikia? I don't know how feasible it would be for them, but just to put it out there... Or would you rather this remain an independent notion? --UltimateKuriboh (talk • contribs) 20:31, November 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * You are free to broker the suggestion, of course. For note, the new Skin that the Wikia would use would be very similar to Wikipedia. As for a domain name, we haven't got that far yet in discussions. Stay tuned for information later on that.--TwoTailedFox (My Talk Page) 20:35, November 17, 2012 (UTC)


 * CategorySelect was disabled from this wiki many years ago at our own request.
 * How we would be able to arrange lists like that "Sangan" one would be exactly the same on both sites. -- Deltaneos (talk) 20:39, November 17, 2012 (UTC)

The only major advantage I see to forking is that we'll have a choice of a different default skin, which is much less obstructed by ads; most likely either Monobook or Vector. Our current default skin the Wikia skin and the old skin Monaco will most likely not be options.

There are a lot of features Wikia insist on wikis using that are more social networkish than encyclopedic. On Curse we wouldn't have to use those. Most of them wouldn't even be an option. But most of them on Wikia are optional. They can be switched off with community approval. A few, such as the default skin, are not optional.

Just to point out the disadvantages. If this goes ahead, the wiki doesn't exactly move, it forks. This means that there will be two wikis, the one here on Wikia and the one on Curse. Wikia most likely will not close this wiki or allow a notice to be left pointing readers and editors to the new site. The two sites will then be in competition for readers and editors. -- Deltaneos (talk) 20:39, November 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * The site here on Wikia appears very high in search engines and is linked to from countless other sites. If we split far more people are going to find the Wikia site than the Curse one. Here's traffic stats for one wiki, WoWWiki/WoWpedia, a World of Warcraft wiki, that forked to Curse before; Wikia copy, Curse copy. Two years after the fork, the Wikia copy still gets well over twice as much traffic. Plus the Curse version of that site is endorsed by the creators of WoW and it's easier for a wiki on an MMORPG to reach out to its readers to inform them of the fork. We don't have either either of those options. I don't think we'd come close to half the traffic Wikia would still be getting after two years if we do fork.
 * People are inevitably going to continue to edit here. There will essentially be two sets of people working on two different sites. This could mean a lot less work gets done. Potential new editors are also most likely to find the Wikia site first.


 * Actually this was a concern of mine as well, but one I neglected to put down. How would we notify users that we officially moved moved to Curse? And from what TwoTailedFox mentioned, it seems that this wikia will also exist, and cannot/will not be shutdown. --UltimateKuriboh (talk • contribs) 20:48, November 17, 2012 (UTC)


 * I 100% agree with Deltaneos - Wikia copy will get more traffic that the new one. I'm an admin of Wikia-wiki too, and I was considering a fork when the Oasis was implemented as well. However, I decided to stay and bear with all Wikia's (unneeded) changes to the skin rather than compete with Google ranking and the existing copy. And Wikia will likely prohibit you for giving any pernament notice about wiki move. They done it to many wikis that decided to do so. Final Cannon   Dyskusja  20:54, November 17, 2012 (UTC)


 * If I recall correctly, WoWpedia got as many fansites as they could to inform people of the move. Aside from advertising the wiki in other places there's not an awful lot that can be done. If the Curse wiki is kept more up-to-date on new material, that material might appear higher on search engines. But there's no guarantee that people won't continue to add new material to this site. -- Deltaneos (talk) 20:57, November 17, 2012 (UTC)

One other advantage would be the search bar. Currently when you search a page, you'll be taken to a page of results rather than directly to the page even if you type the exact page name. In Special:Preferences, if you tick "Enable Go-Search", it will work the old (good) way. If we go to Curse, it will work the old way by default. I have been hoping Wikia will sometime allow us to put it back the old way by default. -- Deltaneos (talk) 20:57, November 17, 2012 (UTC)

Are those people in charge of hosting Bulbapedia ? HPZ - O.N.E. - Captain Moe FTW ! (talk • contribs) 21:00, November 17, 2012 (UTC)


 * Bulbapedia is hosted by Bulbagarden.net. Curse does have a Pokémon wiki though pokemon.marriland.com. -- Deltaneos (talk) 21:05, November 17, 2012 (UTC)


 * Sorry, wrong link; wiki.marriland.com. -- Deltaneos (talk) 21:09, November 17, 2012 (UTC)


 * Delta is quite correct. We would have no option *but* to fork. The core idea would be to keep the new Wiki as up-to-date as possible, and spread the word as much as possible to the new site. Traffic will still be an issue, with Wikia getting the lion's share, but as we can see with WoWWiki, that doesn't mean it will be a better site.
 * This will require effort, co-ordination, and persistence. At the end of day, I am 100% confident that the Curse-hosted alternative is superior than the status quo under Wikia.--TwoTailedFox (My Talk Page) 21:06, November 17, 2012 (UTC)