Forum:Reasons why cards are Forbidden/Limited


 * From the creator of the "List of cards to side in to cripple meta decks", comes the...


 * In case someone somehow missed it. Click "Show" on the right side of the bar.
 * This list is for the people who are curious about why certain cards are banned/limited.
 * This list can also assist people before posting a prediction on the next banlist.
 * Please help out by pointing out changes that should be made in the list (if any) (please include reasons).
 * Keep in mind that the TCG banlist is exactly the same as the OCG banlist (minus the OCG exclusives). So, reasons should be based on the OCG rulings. (adding a note to those would be appreciated, something like the one on Victory Dragon.)
 * And for those who are wondering. No, I didn't make this list recently. It been on 2 other forums before. This is the most updated version of it as the other 2 aren't being updated.
 * See also: Historic Forbidden/Limited Chart. 07:32, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

= Discussion = My thoughts LG (talk • contribs) 16:40, January 26, 2012 (UTC)
 * Fishborg blaster:Very low.Strict conditions but is soo good.also WATER monsters are beginning to gain support from the new ZEXAL.
 * Time Seal:NEVER! no cost and with the new Inzektors loops topdecking is now not so hard to happen.
 * Level Limit Area B:Low chance of down.well same as the unlimited gravity bind except that it changes battle positions (Morphtronic) and it can be activated instantly.probably semi'd.


 * Does anybody else think Tragoedia might have a high chance of going to unlimited? Hardly anybody uses it at more than 1 anyway, except maybe Monster Mash. Also, Exchange of the Spirit should go to NEVER because it's horrifically broken, Metamorphosis should go to LOW because it's too fast right now, and I think Thousand-Eyes Restrict should go from very low to LOW because I don't see many decks that would run it except maybe Monarchs and they aren't top-tier now. 99.164.87.12 (talk) 18:10, February 1, 2012 (UTC) UPDATE: maybe not, I just remembered Limit Reverse and Synchro Summoning lol

Before March 2010

 * Thought I'd add a few reasons to the cards that were unlimited before March 2010.


 * Abyss Soldier
 * Exiled Force
 * Jinzo
 * Lightning Vortex
 * Morphing Jar
 * Protector of the Sanctuary
 * Vampire Lord
 * Sacred Phoenix of Nephthys
 * This is a list of the cards which I wasn't sure about, so if anyone has any ideas on these (or any that I missed), feel free to post in this section. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 06:59, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

That's the best I can come up with to explain the above cards. --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 11:55, October 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) Abyss Soldier was Semi'd from April '05 to Sept '05 due to its abuse with Sinister Serpent, allowing infinite bouncing once each turn. After Sinister Serpent got Forbidden, Abyss Soldier possibly dwindled in use, and came back to Unlimited.
 * 2) Exiled Force was a very useful tool in the Warrior Toolbox. As the popularity of the Toolbox dwindled it eventually came off the list.
 * 3) Jinzo was popular early in the game's history since the game was slow enough to allow for monsters to be Tribute Summoned. Then the metagame picked up speed, where Special Summons became more favourable, and Jinzo dwindled in popularity due to both Royal Decree and presence of better monsters to Special Summon. Jinzo went back to unlimited possibly due to the Jinzo support popping up in Light of Destruction, and possibly stayed unlimited since its change in status didn't affect its use.
 * 4) Lightning Vortex was Limited due to abuse with Sinister Serpent for cheap frying of the opponent's face-up monsters. It still saw some abuse since there were 2 Night Assailants still on the list. It finally came off the Limited status after Night Assailant hit 1 on the next list.
 * 5) Morphing Jar 2 was a very potent field-disrupter, freezing the battle phase and eating up Nomis and Tribute monsters the moment it was flipped. This is probably why it was Semi, until '05 when destroying monsters with effects became more popular than battle, giving a very good way to circumvent its Flip Effect. It probably disappeared off the meta then, and so went back to unlimited.
 * 6) Protector of the Sanctuary was formerly abused with things like Time Seal and Yata-Garasu as an additional layer of insurance for such a lock since the opponent could only break the lock by drawing with a card effect. Time Seal and Yata soon got banned, leaving no reason to limit Protector of the Sanctuary.
 * 7) Sacred Phoenix of Nephthys and its Decks were popular back in '06. Back then, destruction with effects were all the rage, and Sacred Phoenix was nigh-unkillable with destruction effects, providing a Heavy Storm effect each time they tried to kill it that way. Eventually, the metagame picked up its pacing with RFG and more chainable cards coming into fashion, and Nephthys dwindled in popularity. Should now explain why it's unlimited now. This should also explain Vampire Lord and Zombie Decks in that day.


 * Nice. Adding. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 06:20, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

March 2010
To start things off... Why is Metamorphosis banned when Thousand-Eyes Restrict is also banned? Isn't that the main reason? Did Konami ban Victory Dragon because they can? because there's something called surrendering. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 05:48, August 5, 2010 (UTC)


 * Metamorphosis can still summon some very strong Fusion Monsters easily. For Victory Dragon, you have to understand that although you can surrender anytime during the duel in the TCG, you can only surrender starting from the 10th turn in the OCG so it still makes Victory Dragon very BROKEN.-- HHTurtle  Talk  06:09, August 5, 2010 (UTC)


 * So since Metamorphosis is now banned, do you think they'll eventually take Thousand-Eyes Restrict off the banlist?--76.27.8.201 (talk) 07:25, September 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * I highly doubt that it will come off the list. When used properly, it's better than Gravity Bind and Level Limit - Area B. I've added the combo above. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 07:43, September 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Metal Reflect Slime + Cyber End Dragon.--Helix-king (talk • contribs) 15:41, August 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * Fair enough. Adding + slight expansion on the topic. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 06:26, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

I'm right there with you on the Ojama Trio, RoTA, and Judgement Dragon bits for sure. Everything else I'm pretty neutral about though. Goblinpunch787


 * Good to hear that you don't specifically disagree to anything. This list is supposed to be something that almost everyone can generally agree on. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 11:57, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

I just noticed that each card has a reason next to it. nice! Thanks for those who contributed. Now to do the "Chances" column. I would prefer it if no one changes this column (to prevent edit wars). Instead, please post below and discuss them. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 11:57, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

Ojama Trio is "not less limited" for good reason. The only way to turn Ojama Trio on it's head for general decks is to tune them, but when you don't have a tuner, it clogs your field to prevent swarming of any more than 2 monsters, and stops all kinds of other stuff. It's another OTK stopper, It makes Ojama Decks practically unstoppable, and there are also many ways to abuse it to create OTKs. I totally agree with pretty much everything else, entirely. Great list. NecrofearNorleras (talk • contribs) 14:55, August 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree with the guy above me. I'm not sure if you guys know of this but there was an annoying deck in the OCG when Ojama Trio was released. You activate Ground Collapse during your turn and then activate Ojama Trio during your opponent's turn, preferably during the Draw Phase or Standby Phase. This will cause your opponent to have no real use of their monster zones. It was really annoying and broken.-- HHTurtle  Talk  16:22, August 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * If you have a Tuner, can't you switch the token to ATK mode, suicide (with 0 ATK >.<), then summon a Tuner and Synchro for a level 5-8 monster? But still, I'll consider changing that a bit. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 21:50, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

There's something that shouldn't be there. Changing Decree, Oppression and Drain: = → - until it's further discussed. Their strengths are too different. Oppression might be Limited, while the other 2 may stay imo. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 08:21, August 12, 2010 (UTC)


 * Honestly, Victory Dragon ain't broken anymore, due to many removable - Fissure, Smashing Ground, Lightning Vortex, Mirror Force, Bottomless Trap Hole, etc. So why is it stay on banlist, eh? Oh yes, no one playing Match duel when come to him. --FredCat100 (talk • contribs) 19:01, August 12, 2010 (UTC)


 * The problem with victory dragon is since they ALWAYS could possibly win the match, even if you won 2 of three, you must play the third game, since they could win the match still--Helix-king (talk • contribs) 15:45, August 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * I heard somewhere it was banned to prevent player arguments when people forfeit right before it attacks directly. 99.164.87.12 (talk) 18:17, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

September 2010

 * Updating and...
 * Correct
 * Brain Control - It was on chance on going up, which was right.
 * Rescue Cat - up, which was right.
 * Monster Reborn - low chance of coming down, right.
 * Dark Hole - low chance of coming down, right.
 * Royal Oppression - I knew this was going up, which is why I split the cont. trap trio
 * Mystical Space Typhoon - chance of coming down, right.
 * Chaos Sorcerer - chance of coming down, right.
 * Ojama Trio - chance of coming down, right.
 * Goblin Zombie - was on my prediction list for March, a bit late, but I was right.
 * Treeborn Frog - Well, I did say read the card.
 * United We Stand - I kinda knew this, with the list of so many ways to stop it.


 * Incorrect
 * Magic Cylinder
 * Black Rose Dragon
 * Cyber Dragon
 * Heavy Storm


 * Not Predicted
 * Black Whirlwind
 * Snipe Hunter
 * Royal Decree


 * New
 * Substitoad
 * Infernity Launcher
 * Trishula


 * Seems like this list is pretty accurate xD -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 13:34, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

You should update harpie's feather duster and Change of heart in your list since they say that heavy storm and Brain control are still limited. Jens (talk • contribs) 18:47, August 24, 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks for letting me know. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 22:36, August 24, 2010 (UTC)

Corrected position of Ultimate Offering and Skill Drain. --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 14:28, August 28, 2010 (UTC)

Actually, it was right before. Ultimate Offering and Skill Drain are still Semi. Only Decree went to Unlimited. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 23:20, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * (struck my elbow on Falzar's chest) don't forget that Royal Oppression is limited, so to not confused it with Decree.. -- F  red  C  at  T.P. • F.R. • J.R. • W.S. 23:28, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah. My bad, then. I've read the wrong parts of the card articles. --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs)

187.139.220.27 (talk) 21:16, August 30, 2010 (UTC)solemn judment should be un limited or semi limited in my opinion because it cost a lot of life points and it can give a lot of play for many forgotten and unplayable decks (itsus,union not vwxyz,billy decks, princess pikeru etc...)

Very nice page, although someone forgot to change the bg colour for CCV and Exchange of the Spirit. Fixed now. --Hozu (talk • contribs) 21:48, August 30, 2010 (UTC)

The Dark Magician of Chaos part says "Monster Reborn is also forbidden". Remember that it is now limited 186.4.40.87 (talk) 05:22, September 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, I'll fix that right now. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 05:29, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

Also as Rescue Cat is now forbidden you should change the description of Summoner Monk   --ME!!!!!!!!!! (talk • contribs) 12:02, September 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Done. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 12:13, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

I think that Magician of Faith and Imperial Iron Wall Imperial Order should be changed to never. Magician of Faith creates an infinite loop with Book of Moon and Final Attack Orders and Royal Magical Library. Imperial Order creates an infinite loop with Axe of Foolishness and Jinzo. --Drew-Gi-Oh! (talk) 01:20, October 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Since when was IIW on the Ban List???...BassNettoHikari2...Chat Page... 06:41, October 7, 2010 (UTC)

Hey FZ, you need to fix:
 * Brionac's color to white;
 * Cyber Dragon and Treeborn Frog can't go up, they're Unlimited;
 * Monster Reborn/Dark Hole/Dandylion's chances to = or "Low chance of ↓".

--Missign0 (talk • contribs) 06:39, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Look at the order the list goes in. No One Special (talk • contribs) 01:26, November 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Fixed Brionac. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 05:10, November 9, 2010 (UTC)

Breaker?
Where are the reasons for Breaker the Magical Warrior being banned and limited for a while? Just saying...

--Kageakumo 01:35, December 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * Not all cards that were limited/banned before March 2010 were added, I'm slowly adding them in though. Breaker's added now. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 01:59, December 30, 2010 (UTC)

We're approaching March 2011. Maybe it's about time some more predictions were added? --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 10:09, January 16, 2011 (UTC)


 * Imo, banlist predictions can go in their own threads in Forum:Yu-Gi-Oh! Lists Discussion, just like how it was always done.
 * I'm fine with the current 'Chance of going up/down the list' values. If anyone has a different opinion on then, then go ahead and point them out. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 11:00, January 21, 2011 (UTC)

Who is up for unbanning some yugioh cards
yugioh company WHY DO YOU CREATE CARDS WHEN YOU ARE GOING TO BANN THEM

This is a good and rare card and any reason you say to bann this card is simply STUPID
 * Dark Strike Fighter

Do you know how many children want this card and how mutch it costs
 * Gorz the Emissary of Darkness

UNBANN ALL CARDS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


 * Or, you know, play tradition instead of advanced?

Two responses:
 * Banning cards is just Yugioh's way of recognising that they've made a horrible, easily-overlooked mistake, and this is the least they can do to prevent the breaking of games. Clearly you haven't been around in the game before Dark Dive got banned, or at least not been on the receving end of one.
 * Limiting Gorz actually keeps its price lower than if it were unlimited, since doing so would control the demand for Gorz. Do recall what happens to a card's price each time it shifts down the list - loosening restrictions on the card would mean that more people would want it since they can put more in their Decks, propelling the price to greater heights. No doubt, Gorz is a little expensive, but its current state allows it to be at its cheapest without outright banning it.

If you're still pissed, go do as the above IP Address has said and stick to Traditional. --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 03:29, January 31, 2011 (UTC)


 * Gorz is cheap... I can get it for less than $1.... -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 03:43, January 31, 2011 (UTC)


 * Really? The usual price here in SG is about 10 SGD. --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 12:08, January 31, 2011 (UTC)


 * Bulk buy ftw (share with friends, and along with a bunch of other cards), but for singles, it should still be less than AUD$2 (SGD$2.5)
 * DLG1 Gorz. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 12:24, January 31, 2011 (UTC)
 * What is Dark Dive? I can't find it.-[User:BobaFett2|BobaFett2]] Talk£3.99


 * Dark Dive Bomber = Dark Strike Fighter's Translation from Original Japanese name. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 02:01, February 1, 2011 (UTC)


 * @ Gadjiltron Clearly he hasn't been on the receiving end of someone abusing Monster reborn with Magician of faith to cycle Raigeki and Harpies Feather Duster either. Or not on the recieving end of Chaos Emperor Dragon, which can potentially do 9900 damage in one hit if the field is full and each player has 6 cards in their hand, or even more if they have extra cards in their hand through an effect like Infinite cards. Nicholas Ranayhossaini (talk • contribs) 03:30, May 27, 2011 (UTC)

I've noticed that Book of Taiyou was on the Limited List for a short moment (Sep '05-Apr '06), though I can't quite figure out a reason why. Any ideas? --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 09:28, February 11, 2011 (UTC)


 * Probably a form of Empty Jar which spammed Cyber Jar abused it. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 12:12, February 11, 2011 (UTC)

March 2011

 * Assuming Shriek had it right:


 * Correct
 * Cold Wave
 * Honest - But LSs and Heros are not topping... and Revelation is going to come out...
 * Dandylion
 * Card Trooper - Predicted to be exactly 2, reason was given in the list.
 * Spirit Reaper - Chance of coming down was right, but Book is going up? We now have less Targetting effects now...
 * Snipe Hunter - I said it was Outdated...
 * Demise, King of Armageddon - Same as snipe
 * Dewloren, Tiger King of the Ice Barrier - List said =, unless Mass Driver gets hit. And Mass Driver got hit.
 * Gold Sarcophagus - Too slow


 * Not Predicted
 * Goyo Guardian - ...
 * Book of Moon - ...
 * Megamorph - Konami thinks Equip Spells are not threats any more. Mage Power down, United We Stand down, now this.
 * Skill Drain - There aren't any winning decks that use this...
 * Ultimate Offering - Same as Skill Drain


 * Incorrect
 * Overload Fusion - List had it as saying at 1, but I suppose it could come down, as Cydra decks aren't winning, and well, if you use 1, you have no machines to use the 2nd one, so you need to send more machines first, but you only have 1 Future Fusion.
 * Chaos Sorcerer - List had it as saying at 2


 * New
 * Mass Driver - I knew it will only ever be at 0 or 3.
 * Blackwing - Kalut the Moon Shadow - BWs had it coming.
 * Gateway of the Six - SSs had it coming.
 * Archlord Kristya - I had it marked as 'probably won't happen, but it's possible...' on my predictions list.
 * Debris Dragon - I had it as 'Might Happen' due to Dandylion, Snowman Eater and Darksoul
 * Royal Tribute - I personally did NOT expect this to be hit (even at 2), GKs do not win much any more. The time that it topped was only because of the (quote) "Surprise Buttsecks" factor.
 * Solemn Warning - This getting hit was obvious
 * Icarus Attack - BWs had it coming. They were going to be hit hard this time.
 * -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 06:49, February 17, 2011 (UTC)

Reasons list adjusted to reflect new banlist. Newly shifted entries are reset to "-". --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 15:59, April 26, 2011 (UTC)

I was unaware that Megamorph was unlimited. 76.121.80.38 (talk) 02:05, May 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * Fixed. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 02:10, May 7, 2011 (UTC)

Sixth Sense isn't on the forbidden &limited list last I checked. -- Dark Ace SP™ (Talk)  13:26, May 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * Sixth Sense is an OCG Only card, so it's on the OCG list. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 13:30, May 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * I dunno,GGHK seems okay than a 'bad card'...whats so bad about it? I mean you could mill one copy and easy power up the second copy and the last one is better then graceful charity. Superboltboy (talk • contribs) 02:43, May 8, 2011 (UTC)SBB

Graceful Charity will always be better than the third copy of Good Goblin Housekeeping. Sending it to the graveyard is almost always preferable to returning it to the bottom of your deck.


 * Good Goblin Housekeeping is situational, Graceful Charity works almost any time. Also, Dark Worlds would gain immensely from it.
 * Off topic; if you're going to sign like that, it's probably better to use " " The 5 tilde gives a timestamp (only). -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 09:35, May 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * I would but I use "Nosubst" in my signature due to having a large signature on a few other wikis that do use "Nosubst". I'll just manually add one. 7:17, May 28, 2011 (UTC).

Cyber Jar should be Very Low since it's way too powerful. Goyo would be Low, since a new format could easily make it less overpowered again. Cold Wave should be Very Low...OTK decks lack consistency due to only having one Trunade. Cold Wave would break monster-based OTK decks. Mass Driver should be Very Low as well because of OTK decks. Metamorphosis would be Low or Very Low-it's basically a cheaper Polymerization. Imperial Order should be Never-Decree is tough enough to deal with. Time Seal would be Very Low or more likely Never-it's like The Forceful Sentry although either more or less powerful depending on your Point of View. Honest will almost definitely stay the same.

Wait? If equip cards are going off the list, will Butterfly Dagger - Elma come off then? Also, could someone enlighten me on how many loops use Butterfly Dagger? The only one I know of is the Infinite Spell Counter loop. --184.96.194.141 (talk) 03:57, July 29, 2011 (UTC)


 * Most are listed at Card Tips:Butterfly Dagger - Elma... -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 04:18, July 29, 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the page. Why don't they just ban Gearfried The Iron Knight and take off Butterfly Dagger? --184.96.194.141 (talk) 20:53, July 29, 2011 (UTC)

Because Gearfried sucks and the Dagger is broken. There's no point banning a bad card to unban a broken one.

Makes sense. My next question is how many people still have these older cards on the ban list? How many of us still have a LOB Raigeki? How long has it been since Konami has reprinted it? Are people hoarding these banned cards in mass amounts? Over time, won't these banned cards get harder and harder to find if Konami doesn't keep reprinting them. --184.96.244.62 (talk) 02:27, August 1, 2011 (UTC)

Nobody cares about finding banned cards, because they are banned, i.e. they can't be used and are worthless. Lappyzard (talk • contribs) 02:48, August 1, 2011 (UTC)

If it's a mint Secret Rare for a few bucks at my local store I'll buy it. Or a mint Ultra. Such as a 1.99 Imperial Order I got at the store.

But will people jump the bandwagon if Raigeki became limited? IF Raigeki became limited, then would people start using it because it was limited and not forbidden? Will mass yugioh players jump the bandwagon when X card from the forbidden list comes off? --184.96.244.62 (talk) 06:05, August 2, 2011 (UTC)

What bandwagon are you talking about? If Raigeki became Limited, EVERYONE would use it. EVERYONE except morons who think that staples are for elitist.

Your reference to "Everyone would use it" is the bandwagon I was talking about. So if everyone would use the limited Raigeki, that means people who didn't own a Raigeki go out of their way to find one again? --184.96.244.62 (talk) 23:06, August 2, 2011 (UTC)

Everyone who wished to play competitively or at least make their decks better would. It's only a Super Rare so it wouldn't be much more expensive than 20/30 dollars.

September 2011
Updated for Sept'11 list. Was less accurate this time due to lack of update since Xyz Monsters being released, Konami wanting to promote Xyz Monsters (a lot), and a few things that no one expected anyways. Wanted to see more ideas and reasons before updating it, which is why I didn't update earlier. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 13:44, August 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * A lot of cards were removed. Where's Scapegoat?


 * Under Harpie's Feather Duster, it still mentions Heavy Storm as being banned. Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 13:53, August 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * A lot were moved.
 * I was sure I copy pasted Scapegoat before changing one of them to Smoke Signal.
 * Fixed both, ty. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 14:00, August 18, 2011 (UTC)

Also, MST is still listed as Limited. Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 14:01, August 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * Fixed; you can feel free to fix any obvious errors like those if you want to. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 14:05, August 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * K. Didn't see anymore, though. Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 14:08, August 18, 2011 (UTC)

Legendary Six Samurai - Shi En was listed as an Effect Monster. I fixed it (it's now listed as Synchro). Samurai Bruxo Discussão/Talk 00:00, August 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * "T.G. Hyper Librarian" was also listed as an Effect Monster (fixed now). Samurai Bruxo Discussão/Talk 00:06, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

Future Fusion says that Overload is limited--絶望 (talk • contribs) 03:56, August 22, 2011 (UTC)


 * Fixed. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 03:59, August 22, 2011 (UTC)

ummm Infernity Launcher is on the list twice? Is it so deadly it had to be Limited twice xD Neon Rider (talk • contribs) 21:05, August 26, 2011 (UTC)


 * I took care of it. --  Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo   21:17, August 26, 2011 (UTC)

why
why is rescue cat still banned when youstill have to deal with rescue cat which is much much worse Killerman3333 (talk • contribs) 00:23, December 20, 2011 (UTC)
 * I think you mean Rescue Rabbit and I disagree rescue cat was waaayyy worse Mrbiff (talk • contribs) 01:32, December 20, 2011 (UTC) mrbiff

We have two Summoner Monks, and any amount of Monks is too much when Cat's around. In addition to that, even without Dark Strike Fighter and Goyo, we still have Brionac, Orient, Arcanite, and Black Rose. In addition to that, there's other new combo possibilities with Tanngnjostr. BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 13:41, December 20, 2011 (UTC)


 * Pretty much that can kill the game with Rescue Cat. But not only Synchro, he can affect Xyz too - Overlaying Rank 1 to 3, yes, you can give Rank 1 extra boost with "Turbo Booster". "Rescue Rabbit" is little cheaper version, only increased level by 1 (up to Level 4 only) with using once per turn and cannot get two different monster (no u, Cyber Dragon/Proto-Cyber Dragon!) onto the field at same time. -- F  r  e  d  C  a  t  14:40, December 20, 2011 (UTC)
 * Oye, FredCat. You also forgot that Rescue Rabbit's targets must be a Normal monster. That's another important detail when comparing it with Cat. 75.49.10.81 (talk) 16:20, December 20, 2011 (UTC)

(In regards to BobaFett2's comment) "Brionic" I think is going to get banned soon. I mean there are some crazy combos you can pull/abuse with it (you have to admit, it is a pretty strong effect monster for a level 6 Synchro, and is capable of getting almost any card off the field. To add to this, the effect can be used over and over again). Shardsilver (talk • contribs) 15:32, December 20, 2011 (UTC)

two cards that should NOT be forbidden are choas emperor dragon - envoy of the end and dimension fusion. first chaos emepror dragon because his summon could be negated essaily with cards such as solemn judgment bottomless trap hole and many others. plus black luster solier is no longer forbidden and it has just as good an effect as the eperor dragon and just as much atk power and just as many brilliant conbos as the emeror dragon so its realy not that fair that one is forbidden and one is not. now on to dimension fusion in the list it states that there was to much abuse with dark armed dragon and i would like to say that due to dark armed dragons effect you wuold need to send alot of dark monsters to the grave first and have dark armed dragon all ready in your hand to even summon him and have dimension fusion in your hand to complete this conbo and it would cost 2000 life points as well and your opponent could summon his banished monsters which could stop the otk plus your opponent could have something on the feild to already to stop and destroy all your monsters or negate the damage or deflect the damage back at you. as for other conbos with dimension fusion. again your opponent could have there own conbo which could result in your move backfireing on your self. this could be probebly eassialy done with the fact that they are maing even more powerful cards that can be eassialy used against your opponent. personaly i feel there should be no forbidden list at all because it sucks the fun out of the game and if you belive you are a good duelist and if you are as good as you think you are then they should not have some stuiped list hold any one back from showing there full potential in the game.

Seroiously? You lack a good understanding of how this stuff works. Negation is not always possible. You may not draw the cards, they could negate them or get rid of them before you use them. CED is insane due to the fact that drawing it allows you to clear the field and both player's hands then burn your opponent. With cards like Reborn Tengu rampant this allows for so many combos. Likewise, Dimension Fusion is just too good for a number of reasons. In addition to that, if there were no banlist, Makyura Exchange of the Spirit FTK would be the single Tier 1 deck - in fact, it would probably be called Tier 0 or even -1 simply because it's so broken. BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 21:39, December 30, 2011 (UTC)

>my face when someone thinks preventing broken combos = holding back potential Lord Grammaticus (talk • contribs) 21:44, December 30, 2011 (UTC)

i agree that negation is not always possible but all the same you can not say that there is more chance of you drawing a great hand than your opponent drawing cards that would negate your move. both hand have equal chance of being drawn and when i wrote that stuff about negation i put the word could in bold because it implys the possibility of negation and if your opponent trys to negate your negation then whats to say that you dont negate there negation stratigy. and as for dimension fusion there are cards just as good such as return from the diffrent dimension. the only thing that makes dimension fusion better is the fact that with return from the diffrent dimension any monster summoned with its effect is banished at the end phase not that it realy matters because by the end phase the damage would be done. and if dark armed dragons so powerful why not put it on the banned list. and as for the banned list i agree that cards like exchange of the spirit and others would be difficult to beat but i was simply giving my opinion and saying that i would like to test how good i am when me and my opponent have no limitations or restrictions in the game.

And then you watch as you opponent wipes you out within the first turn. Something you don't realize is that when we say "broken", we are talking about the existence of combos that can win a game in 90+% of situations (I've seen one that's basically a guaranteed win, in fact). The point: You can't test skill properly in a format where everyone's using decks that reduce your chances of winning to the point where you basically have to hope that luck is on your side - and even then, it's never a sure thing. Why bother testing your potential against something that'll almost always kill you or else put the duel well out of your control instantly?

Plus, regarding Dark Armed Dragon: It has a relatively specific Summon condition, meaning you can't throw it into every Deck ever like most of the banned cards and expect it to work right. Lord Grammaticus (talk • contribs) 00:28, December 31, 2011 (UTC)

yea ok and whats to stop me winning the game in the first turn because what you dont realize is that if evry one would be aloud cards that are needed for these broken conbos is that every one would have an equal chance of drawing such conbos. and another thing you dont realize is that this game is a game of luck. you just have to make the best out of what you have got in your hand and if your opponent does have a winning stratigy then there is nothing you can do about it and there are plenty of stratigys that result in an instant win with out the use of forbidden cards. and both players have an equal chance of exicuting these stratigys and winning. so you can test skill properly in a format where everyone's using decks that reduce your chances of winning because your using just as powerful cards as they are wtich there for means that their chances of winning are reduced as well. also CED also has pretty specific summoning conditions meaning that you can't just throw it into evry deck as well. and if you have enough dark monsters in your graveyard you could clear your opponents feild reativitly eassily with dark armed dragon's effect and dark armed dragon is only like 200 atk points weaker that CED plus dark armed dragon stays on the field when it use's it's effect plus CED costs 1000 of your own life points to use its effect so CED burns you too.

I really don't think you understand how this game works.

First of all, if everyone had the same exact cards, that'd take a lot of actual skill out of the equation. Yes, this is a game of luck, but not exclusively. With the ever changing banlist, you have to be able to construct a deck that has a good chance of winning without relying on cards that are gamebreakers on their own, as well as know how the pieces fit together when constructing said Deck. There has to be room for other Decks to be viable, and the broken cards allowed in Traditional Format aren't quite conducive to that process.

And the problem with your analysis of CED is this - all it needs is at least one Light and Dark monster (compared to DAD, which needs exactly 3 Dark monsters in the grave). While this doesn't make it splashable per se, it's still a rather easy Summon. Also, your statement that CED burns you is wrong - 1000LP is a cost, not damage, and it's often more than worth it considering the amount of damage AND the options you have for wrecking your opponent afterward - like having Sangan/Witch on the field before paying, which means you're ensured at least one free monster, and if that monster is Yata-Garasu, you're done.

The ban list exists to prevent the overuse of certain cards and promote use of other strategies - not to "hold players back", as you've been ridiculous enough to mention. Lord Grammaticus (talk • contribs) 19:36, December 31, 2011 (UTC)

and i think that you must be one of those people who thinks that if there were no forbidden list then every one would use the same cards witch would take skill out of the equation. how ever you seem to fail at realising the odds of you completeing said stratigy are slim. and there are other cards that can prevent this conbo being used with cards like prohibitation, tyrants tirade, prime material dragon, consecrated light, solemn judgement and solemn warrning witch would prevent CED's effect or summon and you could have a sangan/witch of your own when CED's effect is activated. however you do need to take luck into the equation meaning that you have just as much chance getting cards like the ones i listed as your opponent does of getting CED, sangan or the witch of the black forest on their side of the field.

also it would be just as easy to get three dark monsters in the graveyard as it would to get one light and dark monster in the graveyard. and even if the 1000 life points for CED is a cost you still lose 1000 life points meaning that theres not much diffrence between cost and damage. also even if there was no banned list you could still construct a deck that has a good chance of winning any way. and if there was overuse of certain cards then surly players would be encouaged to create and promote new stratiges to defeat said cards that are being overused resulting in pushing players forward. this is something that you have clearly been stupid enough to over look.

Actually, Konami had a time without a banlist. Every player used the same damn deck(s). Same thing happened with Tele-DAD - when there is a single deck that almost always beats every other deck every other time, everyone's going to use it. BF2 Talk  Deck Guides 14:13, January 1, 2012 (UTC)

fair enough if konami did have a time without a banlist and if evry player did use the same deck then the banlist should not be completely removed. they should just put down on the list cards that are just to powerful and realy do give an unfair advantage such as temple of the kings, exchange of the spirit or all 5 peices of exodia but cards like CED dimension fusion or even pot of greed is just stupid its not like these cards are hard to beat and even if cards like them are just limited i would'nt care. but half the cards on the forbidden list just have a slightly better effect or more atk than other cards and there are cards that are unlimited and have way better effects than half the cards on the forbidden list. so not every card should be removed from the banlist but the cards they do put on should be put on for a good reason.

Getting exactly 3 dark monsters is not as easy having a light and dark monster in he grave. The exactly 3 dark monsters is very restrcting and more situatonal, you can have any number of light and dark monsters in the grave which makes the chaos monsters far easier to ummon than dark armed dragon. The 1000 life point cost is fixed, whereas the burn damage of chaos emperor dragon will almost always be above 3000. Chaos emperor dragon clears the enire field and hands, not just 3 cards like dark armed dragon.

matthew.lightbody@talktalk.net (talk • contribs) 19:01, January 1, 2012 (UTC)

ok. i understand what your getting at with dark armed dragon and CED however i stand by what i wrote about it being just as eassy getting 3 dark monsters in the grave. there are plenty of conbos that could send 3 dark monsters to the grave as eassily as sending 1 light and dark monster to the grave. you could use future fusion or hand destruction with foolish burial. and im sure there are lots of other conbos you could use. also after you get dark armed dragon on the field you could send more dark monsters to the grave to use his effect to do more damage. where as with CED every thing is destroyed inclueding him self even if your opponent takes more than 3000 damage if your opponent suvives its there turn next so they could draw a card that wipes you out witch could be a possibility as you have lost 1000 life points witch could make all the diffrence. where as with dark armed dragon if you destroy your opponents feild you still have a very powerful monster to defend your life points.


 * Good, good, you got 3 DARK monsters in the Grave. Now try to prevent more from accumulating until you draw into Dark Armed. Easy? Doesn't happen all the time. --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 02:29, January 2, 2012 (UT

you have missunderstood what i was saying. i was saying that you could get three dark monsters in the grave when you also have dark armed dragon in your hand. i was not saying send three dark monsters to the grave then wait and hope that you draw dark armed dragon. what i ment was when you have DAD in your hand then get three dark monsters in the grave.


 * Still, your Graveyard is more likely to gather more than 3 DARK monsters before you get your DAD, compared to the other way round. --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 06:59, January 3, 2012 (

yea ok but what you dont understand is that if you use a deck built around DAD then it's going to be eassy to summon DAD even if your grave does gather more dark monsters. how ever if you use DAD in your deck for whatever reason if your stratigy is to summon DAD then you should already have DAD in your hand or make sure he is going to be in your hand before your graveyard gathers to many dark monsters.

March 2012
So we now have news on the upcoming banlist. Do we update now, or wait till it actually takes effect? --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 05:53, February 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm assuming we wait until it actually takes effect, for all we known Shriek might be wrong. It's unlikely but possible... And preferred.121.222.228.13 (talk) 06:05, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

Shouldn't the list be updated? Its march 2th (atleast for me) its supposed to take effect by now LG talk My own Guides 14:57, March 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * I was thinking about doing it but it's Falzar's forum and he usually does it. But, he get's really busy sometimes with other stuff and it's March now so I think I'll take care of it. This most recent list was really out there, so when I type up the reasons for where cards are on the list, it might be biased towards my opinion. So, if anyone ends up disagreeing with what I put, I won't care if they change it. I mostly just want to get it updated. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 19:49, March 2, 2012 (UTC)

I don't think Glow-Up Bulb was hit to hurt plants, I think it was just an indirect hit for them. Hitting it killed the First Turn Quasar Future Fusion deck that was insanely consistent, without GUB they have no targets to make Formula Synchron with. So yeah, maybe it wasn't because of Plants considering they weren't exactly top tier for a while, just my thoughts. 123.211.144.181 (talk) 05:08, March 3, 2012 (UTC)


 * Yeah, but Spore got hit too, so I'm thinking Plants. I'll add the First Turn Quasar thing though. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 05:31, March 3, 2012 (UTC)

Random off-topic question - does anybody else think that Mirage of Nightmare should be changed from "Never" to "Very Low?" Seriously, even Yata-Garasu is "Very Low." 99.165.192.113 (talk) 22:41, March 3, 2012 (UTC)


 * I was actually considering it when I was updating this earlier. I could see Mirage coming back at some point. I'm mostly sketchy on the fact that it could make Fableds and DW OP. I would like a little input from other people before changing this one. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 23:33, March 3, 2012 (UTC)


 * Dark Worlds I could see being pretty good with it, I can't see Fableds being that great with it though. Sure it'd give them a boost but they'll need more than a boost to be able to compete with current decks.
 * And I'm not sure it'd be brought back. Does it help Xyz's at all? Nope. Less chance of it coming back.
 * 123.211.144.181 (talk) 01:33, March 4, 2012 (UTC)


 * I wasn't saying it has a very high likelihood of coming back, but wouldn't you agree it has at more of a chance of coming back than that annoying freaking-crow-that-wins-games-on-its-own? 99.165.192.113 (talk) 01:53, March 4, 2012 (UTC)


 * Probably, but even so, I think a very low is needed at least. -- - Crimson Joker ( Talk ) 04:40, March 5, 2012 (UTC)


 * So, pretty much we agree Very Low for Mirage of Nightmare, correct? --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 09:46, March 5, 2012 (UTC)


 * I think that at the very least, nobody is arguing against it. 99.165.192.113 (talk) 21:11, March 5, 2012 (UTC)

Ok, is there anything else on there that anyone thinks should be changed? And also, maybe some discussion on some cards that are marked as "unsure" ( "-" )? --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 23:49, March 5, 2012 (UTC)


 * Maybe Metamorphosis to "Very Low?" It has too many epic combos (derp, my Beast King Barbaros becomes Cyber Twin Dragon and my Metal Reflect Slime becomes Naturia Exterio). EDIT: Oh, and Formula Synchron to "=" I think, it's balanced at one. 99.165.192.113 (talk) 00:58, March 6, 2012 (UTC)


 * Done and done. I put Formula as =, but with a chance of going ↓. With Glow-Up AND Fishborg gone, it's really not as broken. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 03:08, March 6, 2012 (UTC)


 * Fishborg Blaster to "Low?" As it says up there he is quite abusable, but also Fishborg Launcher was designed to be a nerfed replacement for him. 99.165.192.113 (talk) 11:18, March 7, 2012 (UTC)


 * With Laucher replacing Blaster, the odds of Blaster coming back are even slimmer. I'm gonna say Very Low. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 21:16, March 7, 2012 (UTC)

Magical scientist should have his reason slightly edited, apart from the FTK he can perform with catapult turtle, he can also summon 4 xyz monsters by itself, which is obviously far too fast for this format.

matthew.lightbody@talktalk.net (talk • contribs) 21:38, March 15, 2012 (UTC)


 * I agree with you, and done. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 00:40, March 16, 2012 (UTC)

Does anybody else think Snatch Steal should go to "Never" (sorry, update to end all updates)? IMO it's even worse than Change of Heart because even though it can't target face-downs to take control of, it offers control as long as it stays on the field, Hidden Armory can search/recycle it indiscriminately because you don't need to summon during a series of turns where you just steal your opponents monsters, and the opponent LP gain just doesn't matter. 99.162.190.109 (talk) 15:02, March 17, 2012 (UTC) P.S. - Hey, maybe Konami will errata Magical Scientist to say "up to twice per turn" and bring him back to promote Xyzs. Probably not.


 * lol, I didn't mean it would be the last update. I meant it as it would be the last mass update for a while. As for Snatch Steal to "Never", I don't agree. 3 MSTs, Heavy Storm, Night Shot (actually really good), etc. It's just not gonna stay on the field. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 17:32, March 17, 2012 (UTC)


 * Disregard Night Shot, I put that forgetting that it only destroys set S/T. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 17:28, March 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * Snatch Steal is pretty bad. Most of my losses in Duel Academy (I know AI sucks) come from blowing all my cards to get ahead one powerful monster, than losing that monster next turn. While The card can be destroyed quite easily from MST, You should never use the card with the intention of keeping it on the field longer than a turn anyway. The "cost" of increasing your opponents life points is easily negated by saving it until your foe brings out the big guns and smashing him with his own ace. I don't know if Never is overkill, but it won't be coming down anytime soon. It would be balanced if it was limited to level 4 or lower cards maybe.ZGWolf (talk • contribs) 20:29, March 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * You're absolutely right, it's not coming back soon, and it might never come back. But putting "Never" is definitely overkill. "Never" should be reserved for truly broken/poorly designed cards like CED, Substitoad, Imperial Order, and Victory Dragon (because of the way surrendering works in the OCG). --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 21:34, March 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * Speaking of whom, IIRC, Victory Dragon is also banned, and never coming back, because you could sidedeck it in 3rd duel, even if you have 2 losses, the duel would be required to be played because it is "possible" that you will win the match, basically wasting everyone's time. 75.58.124.7 (talk) 21:53, March 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't think it works like that. If you have 2 losses, you lost the match and you don't get a chance to side. The match can't continue if a winner has been determined. But, the point is, Victory Dragon is never coming back either way. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 21:58, March 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * actually of all the "broken" cards in the game, I think Victory dragon is the most likely to come back. It was a pain in the neck to actually summon, and is actully pretty weak. As wierd as it may sound, I am more afraid of snatch steal than victory dragon. Then again I don't do much tourneys. Just wondering, were there any cases between release and ban where this card was actually used? Not that I actually want it, it's just really shiny 0_0

ZGWolf (talk • contribs) 02:55, March 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * The reason Victory Dragon will not come back is because of the OCG. In the TCG, when your opponent drops VD, you can just surrender before they can damage you with it, so that they only win the round and not the full match. In the OCG, you may only surrender after the tenth turn. VD is worse now because it can be summoned easier than before. Hieratics can drop it in a single turn, and possibly drop you to 0 that turn since they're so OTK oriented. It also may never come back just because it's the only Match Winner that isn't Illegal. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 03:03, March 22, 2012 (UTC)

Topic conflict
I am now notice the mispurpose of "CURRENTLY BANNED" while there are like Limited and Semi-Limited including those recipes. So why not change the topic to "List of Reasons why cards are on the Currently Banlist" instead of "List of Reason why cards are Currently Banned"? So that can making a sense...? -- F  r  e  d  C  a  t  00:49, March 16, 2012 (UTC)


 * Oh, I see what you mean. We're not talking about just the banned stuff, we're talking about Semi-Limited and Limited stuff too, so the title is inaccurate. I agree in all honesty. What about "Reasons why cards are currently restricted" or "Reasons why cards are Banned/Limited"? Which sounds better? I don't think we need to say "List of..." in the title. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 01:04, March 16, 2012 (UTC)


 * I agree with changing, maybe "Which Cards are Restricted and Why"? 99.162.190.109 (talk) 01:00, March 16, 2012 (UTC)


 * This unregistered user has better topic choice - let's go with that! -- F  r  e  d  C  a  t  01:02, March 16, 2012 (UTC)


 * I like it too, but I want a few different ideas out there to choose from before we decide what to change it to. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 01:04, March 16, 2012 (UTC)


 * Do we need to invoking some Admins to include some discusses with this? -- F  r  e  d  C  a  t  01:10, March 16, 2012 (UTC)


 * No, we don't have to. I'm just saying that we should throw a few more ideas out there for the new name. Like maybe "Reasons why cards currently on the Forbidden/Limited list" or something. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 01:14, March 16, 2012 (UTC)


 * Ok, but I am still going with the one unregistered user made up, it suit this article better. -- F  r  e  d  C  a  t  01:18, March 16, 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm thinking about going ahead and changing it now because the current title is just meh. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 17:32, March 20, 2012 (UTC)

Trishula
Ok why does the reason of trishula say "her"? does trishula honestly look like a female to you? LG talk My own Guides 15:01, March 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * Are you sexist against female dragons then? I'm not sure as to the answer myself, but I've heard Trish getting called "her" by a lot of people... 75.58.122.97 (talk) 22:21, March 23, 2012 (UTC)