User:Becasita/SubPages/TalkPage/Archives/2017/July

Queue
Hi, I am uploading PNG pictures to the DP04 KR gallery, and when I wanted to start adding the JPG to PNG files to change once all are uploaded; I don't see the Queue anywhere. Was it removed during the site update, or were my mover rights removed? Yeah, seems my mover rights were revoked (dunno why thou). But in any case, if you make me a mover again I'll update all those jpg files to use the new png one I've just finished uploading; otherwise you could do it yourself, they are in the DP04-KR UE gallery, simply look for the ones using JPG and switch them to PNG as all have my files available now. Erdvilla (talk • contribs) 16:52, July 2, 2017 (UTC)


 * Hi there.
 * So, to start, you're still a mover. Even if you weren't, you could still make use of that part of the queue.
 * My guess would be that since FANDOM updated the page layout, the script no longer find it place on the page. However, it seems it was update already, so I don't know, but will try to find out. Becasita Pendulum (talk • contribs) 17:39, July 2, 2017 (UTC)


 * Hi. I see it's fixed and back in place, at the bottom of the Edit menu. Good because this week I plan on doing a complete DP06-KR upgrade from all jpgs to all pngs. So with it back I can now do a proper job of uploading all and then a single Queue magic trick to turn the pngs into the used ones. Erdvilla (talk • contribs) 20:15, July 4, 2017 (UTC)


 * Sorry for the late reply, but haven't been having internet connection. Good to know everything's alright. Thanks for the pics! Becasita Pendulum (talk • contribs) 13:50, July 6, 2017 (UTC)


 * Left you a message on my talk concerning an individual card. Erdvilla (talk • contribs) 20:54, July 6, 2017 (UTC)


 * Done, 1st and 2nd waves complete! ...except for #55; yup, pulled 101 out of 102, including both the Mage and Dragon, but didn't pulled the 55 ¬¬ So if you can get it from somewhere it would be nice to have the gallery complete (I have some unopened Wave 2 boxes, but not gonna open them just to look for just 1 card when I already have the rarest ones). Erdvilla (talk • contribs) 21:19, July 6, 2017 (UTC)

Different topic, but doesn't need a new section. Is it just me, or the July 7th 2017 calendar entry "Japanese release date for Circuit Break Set." is a duplicated one from the July 8th one "Japanese release date for Circuit Break."? Or are they different product presentations? I think the "Set" one might be a simple error and needs to be deleted; but I personally don't want to simply Edit and delete it before consulting because I don't want to mess up things if I am wrong. So I leave it to you to clear that up. Erdvilla (talk • contribs) 19:35, July 11, 2017 (UTC)


 * The "Set" one refers to this. It seems it's some sort of promo, that contains multiple CIBR boosters. So it's not a mistake. It just needs a page for it in here. Becasita Pendulum (talk • contribs) 19:52, July 11, 2017 (UTC)

LastEdited in the page header
Hi Becastia. I am writing to you as the most recent active editor of MediaWiki:Common.js. With the recent updates to the customization policy related to the page header, having the "LastEdited" data display for all users under the page title is no longer permitted. Can you remove that from Common.js? It's fine to leave it active in Monobook, and of course it's fine for any user to add it to their personal customizations. Please let me know if you have any questions. Thanks! -BertH (help forum | blog) 20:42, July 5, 2017 (UTC)


 * Hello there.
 * Alright, understood. Removed. Becasita Pendulum (talk • contribs) 13:50, July 6, 2017 (UTC)

Response Re:Comments on User_talk:FishTank

 * Since I've been mentioned on that page, I think it's only fair to lay the cards on the table as they look currently.


 * As FishTank has alluded to, Portable Infoboxes are coming. The Admin Team has two choices in the matter: adapt, or to not adapt. That's the situation boiled down to its simplest elements.


 * By adapting now, you stand a good chance of being able to work with the syntax to maintain the templates in the future, and continuing to work on the behemoth source of information that this wiki has become.


 * By refusing to adapt, you risk being left behind as technology outpaces you. It also means you become less valuable as members of the Admin team; if wiki contributors come along later that are proficient with the new syntax, and they are willing to invest time into maintaining this wiki, then you or others may be replaced with individuals who are objectively a better fit for the direction of the wiki going forward.


 * They didn't work good, we don't want more. We both know that this doesn't matter, so what do you mean with " to see how well they worked for you"? Does this matter? What was the idea? Starting some and leave the others? Because I won't make use of time there to create PIs.


 * Oh, I beg to differ that they didn't work. Sure, some things got missed off initially, but they were corrected as soon as they were reported, and you know that.


 * But for people who put their effort to shape the wiki and make it a better place in terms of experiencing/accessibility/usability/whatever other stuff, this matters; because you might be destroying not only their work, but opportunities for them. I don't think that's the best approach, because, in the end, if it weren't those people, the wiki would probably look not as good.


 * You oppose PIs. You are actively working against improving the user experience. You have no right to speak on behalf of the people improving this wiki when you refuse to do so.


 * People do adapt to change and that's how the world evolves. But not like this, with stuff being shoved like that, when there are possibly better ideas that aren't being taken into account.


 * To repeat FishTank's words, please tell me of these "better ideas" you know of. At the moment, all I see from you in any media is complaining; anybody can do that, and without suggestions, your complaining is little better than white noise.


 * But, let's take a step back for a moment, and examine where my personal interest lies. My interest is in ensuring that the content on this wiki can be reached by the widest possible audience. That means making changes. Right now, you are directly impeding those changes.


 * In every one of my experiences with speaking to users, they have expressed a desire for content to be mobile-friendly. I was in Des Moines, IA recently, and I happened to have a conversation with two GameStop employees who happened to be massive Yu-Gi-Oh! fans. They confirmed that not having mobile-friendly content is a frustrating experience. On Reddit, the lack of mobile support has been a constant gripe from users, and many users have demonstrated frustration that changes are made to other areas of the wiki without mobile support being improved first.


 * A good friend recently reminded me that a Wiki's admin team has an obligation to work in the best interests of its users. Right now, I see you acting in self-interest, because this means a change to what you have to learn. At no point has there been a genuine concern raised for the users.


 * So, Becasita, given your statements so far, a simple choice awaits you: To work with me, or to not work with me, in improving the user experience. If you accept, I'm more than happy to walk through the PI syntax with you, and work on page and template prototypes. If you refuse, you may consider yourself on notice that your services may be, eventually, no longer required.--TwoTailedFox (talk) 08:32, July 7, 2017 (UTC)

As FishTank has alluded to [...] who are objectively a better fit for the direction of the wiki going forward. Ok, to start, you need to understand the discussion is not about reverting the PIs from here. But you are catching the discussion half way, so you couldn't know.

Oh, I beg to differ that they didn't work. Sure, some things got missed off initially, but they were corrected as soon as they were reported, and you know that. Of course you beg to differ. You probably didn't notice a quarter of the issues we were having. Wrong SMW properties being assigned (broken queries; lack of results), bad design (some of those were fixed by you because I pointed them to you), spacing problems (that I also tried to take care of). And people pointed some of these on the general chat on our Discord server, but you either ignored or missed them. In any case, it seems you only made the effort to fix stuff in case someone would point it. Which translates to dropping the PIs and let people "unshit" themselves; it seems you didn't care about it much. At least that's the feeling you passed onto me. Maybe you passed it to other people as well. By the way, these messages to FishTank already have more than two weeks; stuff happened in the meantime; e.g., fixes on the PIs.

You oppose PIs. You are actively working against improving the user experience. You have no right to speak on behalf of the people improving this wiki when you refuse to do so. Don't be so small minded. PIs are not the only way to improve user experience. Or better, it is, indeed, because FANDOM want's it be that way. The discussion was about this; about improving the user experience. You're taking the same attitude you took on the Call of Duty wiki; people saying one thing and you saying another, refusing to acknowledge people's words. Please don't be like that. I was just talking with FishTank about how we could improve the experience and why PIs would be the only way.

To repeat FishTank's words, please tell me of these "better ideas" you know of. At the moment, all I see from you in any media is complaining; anybody can do that, and without suggestions, your complaining is little better than white noise. I (and tons of other people) already suggested a thing or two. CSS on mobile, JS, more customization. This is not a new thing. FANDOM doesn't want that. On the FANDOM universe, I have no other suggestions; even if I had, FANDOM would make it so may suggestions would be rendered useless, of course. Because if they want to implement the PIs, then, since they are in charge, they implement the PIs. I'm perfectly aware of this. We both are.

But, let's take a step back for a moment, and examine where my personal interest lies. My interest is in ensuring that the content on this wiki can be reached by the widest possible audience. That means making changes. Right now, you are directly impeding those changes. I can't see how, since I've tried to come up with templates and all and it did look better. Again, if CSS was allowed, for instance, oh, I could do way better than the PIs; more control. And I'm not even an expert on the matter. Example: Does this look bad to you? And that's just a sloppy draft. Doesn't look much worse than this, does it? But now just look to those for desktop. I'm not sacrificing desktop experience. Both mobile and non-mobile experiences are important.

In every one of my experiences with speaking to users, they have expressed a desire for content to be mobile-friendly. I was in Des Moines, IA recently, and I happened to have a conversation with two GameStop employees who happened to be massive Yu-Gi-Oh! fans. They confirmed that not having mobile-friendly content is a frustrating experience. On Reddit, the lack of mobile support has been a constant gripe from users, and many users have demonstrated frustration that changes are made to other areas of the wiki without mobile support being improved first. You don't say. How curious. I've heard the YGO community complaining about that too. And I tried to improve it. And my draft template for the real cards doesn't look bad on mobile and I took that into consideration. It simply isn't a PI, so it's bad for you, since you guys can't throw videos, ads or whatever you want into the top, middle, bottom, wherever, of it. Believe me: If I weren't here to try to improve UX for mobile, I wouldn't be having this discussion, that's for sure.

A good friend recently reminded me that a Wiki's admin team has an obligation to work in the best interests of its users. Right now, I see you acting in self-interest, because this means a change to what you have to learn. At no point has there been a genuine concern raised for the users. Excuse me, but I am a volunteer who likes to contribute. If I have the time, I'll contribute; if I don't, well, I just won't. This simple. I have no obligation to do this and that. I'm not acting in self-interest. Sure, I'd have to learn new things, but I love to learn new things! And you know that. I just don't like the PIs, I don't have to like everything, do I? I tried, I experimented with them; I didn't sympathize with them. This might change; might not. We'll see.

So, Becasita, given your statements so far, a simple choice awaits you: To work with me, or to not work with me, in improving the user experience. If you accept, I'm more than happy to walk through the PI syntax with you, and work on page and template prototypes. If you refuse, you may consider yourself on notice that your services may be, eventually, no longer required. So, an ultimatum, is it? Of course I want to improve user experience! Becasita Pendulum (talk • contribs) 13:38, July 7, 2017 (UTC)


 * Ok, to start, you need to understand the discussion is not about reverting the PIs from here. But you are catching the discussion half way, so you couldn't know.

"I'm going to dismiss your argument, instead of directly addressing the point that Portable Infoboxes are not going away."


 * Of course you beg to differ. You probably didn't notice a quarter of the issues we were having. Wrong SMW properties being assigned (broken queries; lack of results), bad design (some of those were fixed by you because I pointed them to you), spacing problems (that I also tried to take care of). And people pointed some of these on the general chat on our Discord server, but you either ignored or missed them. In any case, it seems you only made the effort to fix stuff in case someone would point it. Which translates to dropping the PIs and let people "unshit" themselves; it seems you didn't care about it much. At least that's the feeling you passed onto me. Maybe you passed it to other people as well. By the way, these messages to FishTank already have more than two weeks; stuff happened in the meantime; e.g., fixes on the PIs.

Perhaps you could tell me where I can pick up my Clairvoyance degree?

Discord has a PM system. Are you seriously telling me that you'd let something fester rather than send me a PM? Are you that obsessed with trying to sabotage my efforts? Many of the problems I've encountered are the direct consequences of the needlessly complex way the previous templates have been designed. Seriously, who's bright idea was it to assign custom variable names to template variables that never ended up being displayed in anything other than the original way the variable was passed to the template?


 * Don't be so small minded. PIs are not the only way to improve user experience. Or better, it is, indeed, because FANDOM want's it be that way. The discussion was about this; about improving the user experience. You're taking the same attitude you took on the Call of Duty wiki; people saying one thing and you saying another, refusing to acknowledge people's words. Please don't be like that. I was just talking with FishTank about how we could improve the experience and why PIs would be the only way.

Yes, FANDOM does want it to be that way. You need to feed back ideas on how to improve the user experience within the confines of what they have laid down, otherwise you're just going to get your feedback tuned out as "We've already said this isn't happening, why didn't you listen the first time?"

Please provide me examples of people saying one thing, and me saying another on CoD Wiki.


 * I (and tons of other people) already suggested a thing or two. CSS on mobile, JS, more customization. This is not a new thing. FANDOM doesn't want that. On the FANDOM universe, I have no other suggestions; even if I had, FANDOM would make it so may suggestions would be rendered useless, of course. Because if they want to implement the PIs, then, since they are in charge, they implement the PIs. I'm perfectly aware of this. We both are.

If you have no other suggestions, then please keep repeating old ones. The answer won't change.


 * I can't see how, since I've tried to come up with templates and all and it did look better. Again, if CSS was allowed, for instance, oh, I could do way better than the PIs; more control. And I'm not even an expert on the matter. Example: Does this look bad to you? And that's just a sloppy draft. Doesn't look much worse than this, does it? But now just look to those for desktop. I'm not sacrificing desktop experience. Both mobile and non-mobile experiences are important.

You're being disingenuous; you are comparing a template that is years old with a rough proof-of-concept draft. But, then again, you knew that.


 * You don't say. How curious. I've heard the YGO community complaining about that too. And I tried to improve it. And my draft template for the real cards doesn't look bad on mobile and I took that into consideration. It simply isn't a PI, so it's bad for you, since you guys can't throw videos, ads or whatever you want into the top, middle, bottom, wherever, of it. Believe me: If I weren't here to try to improve UX for mobile, I wouldn't be having this discussion, that's for sure.

And you refuse to work with PIs, which is now the FANDOM Infobox standard; until you do, you have no basis to complain when things do not look right.


 * Excuse me, but I am a volunteer who likes to contribute. If I have the time, I'll contribute; if I don't, well, I just won't. This simple. I have no obligation to do this and that. I'm not acting in self-interest. Sure, I'd have to learn new things, but I love to learn new things! And you know that. I just don't like the PIs, I don't have to like everything, do I? I tried, I experimented with them; I didn't sympathize with them. This might change; might not. We'll see.


 * So, an ultimatum, is it? Of course I want to improve user experience!

So, work within the confines of the PI code as laid down by FANDOM. That is how the user experience is, and will be going forward, improved.--TwoTailedFox (talk) 20:32, July 7, 2017 (UTC)

You're being disingenuous; you are comparing a template that is years old with a rough proof-of-concept draft. But, then again, you knew that. I didn't get this. Both the templates are recent and both are rough drafts. But this doesn't matter, was just an example on my part.

As for the rest, I really don't want to comment. Not for now, at least. Lots of tension going on between you and me at the moment. Becasita Pendulum (talk • contribs) 21:23, July 7, 2017 (UTC)

Tuner Normal Monster
Well, I named it that for consistency with Tuner Synchro Monster and Tuner Pendulum Monster. (Lucafriz (talk • contribs) 17:23, July 8, 2017 (UTC))


 * Well, if that's what you think, then that's fine. We all have our opinions, after all. (Lucafriz (talk • contribs) 19:08, July 8, 2017 (UTC))


 * Admittedly, I'm not too concerned about the name of the category itself. The reason I did tag all the pages with the category name individually is because well, as you can see, simply having the category catalog all monsters with both the Normal Monster and Tuner traits causes a bunch of manga cards that are not Normal Tuner monsters to appear in the category. Not sure how to fix that at the moment. (Lucafriz (talk • contribs) 05:43, July 14, 2017 (UTC))


 * Sorry about the late response, the matter slipped my mind for a while. I think it brings up the question as to whether or not certain cards like Absolute King Back Jack (manga) and Blackwing - Sharnga the Waning Moon are Normal Tuner Monsters when they seem to have effects that affect the game and would more logically be classified as Effect Monsters. The latter was even written as an Effect Monster on its page (which is probably speculative on the part of the editor who did it rather than any such mention in the duel where it was played itself) and yet still wound up in the Normal Tuner monster category. Of course, given that it's black and white, the manga is pretty bad at demonstrating if a given card is an Effect monster or not. Do we therefore automatically consider all monsters with effects in the manga to be Effect Monsters because that's the way things are in the OCG/TCG and anime, or is it really anyone's guess (other than the writers) as to a manga card's status as an Effect monster or lack thereof? (Lucafriz (talk • contribs) 19:33, August 14, 2017 (UTC))


 * Yes, it should be a logical matter, but then again, the manga does so many bizarre things where cards are concerned that I'm just not 100% sure anymore. Anyway, I think the real issue is that even if you slap an "/Effect" label on the pages of manga Tuner monsters with effects, they still show up in the Normal Tuner monster category, when going by your logic, they shouldn't. I even just experimented with a few such pages to reach that observation. Not sure how to fix that problem though. (Lucafriz (talk • contribs) 19:48, August 14, 2017 (UTC))

Editing Issue
So you think I'm doing all this just to provoke you? You seem to forget that this whole thing started because you assumed there was going to be another edit war, without even thinking of asking me to stop because you assumed I would complain. All you've done is make assumptions and excuses while try to justify yourself for what you did, conveniently leaving out the part you played in this mess. --ArcVRains (talk • contribs) 19:31, July 16, 2017 (UTC)


 * This discussion is closed. Please forget it. Becasita Pendulum (talk • contribs) 22:08, July 16, 2017 (UTC)


 * See, this is what I mean. You seem to have no problem pointing out how you were in the right and I was wrong, but failed to realize that your paranoia over the Lancers is what caused this discussion in the first place. --ArcVRains (talk • contribs) 12:32, July 28, 2017 (UTC)


 * In all fairness, the Lancers page is a magnet for trouble. Sanokal K-T (talk • contribs) 06:06, July 30, 2017 (UTC)


 * The issue isn't even about the page itself anymore; it's how she handled it. Becasita practically admitted she threatened to block my new account because she assumed I would have complained if she had messaged me. Ironically enough, if she had just done that, we wouldn't even be having this discussion right now. --ArcVRains (talk • contribs) 19:29, July 31, 2017 (UTC)


 * Not only that, but now she's trying to avoid the issue altogether and has accused me of doing this just to harass her. And she says I'm rude? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. --ArcVRains (talk • contribs) 03:52, August 1, 2017 (UTC)


 * I'm not going to stop until we resolve this issue. --ArcVRains (talk • contribs) 17:29, August 15, 2017 (UTC)

Monster template
I noticed the monster template has changed. Are we still not going to use it, or can we use it in featured duel summaries? KyrusDarkblade244 (talk • contribs) 04:40, July 30, 2017 (UTC)


 * Nah, we're not using it any longer. Sanokal K-T (talk • contribs) 06:06, July 30, 2017 (UTC)

SOD "Null and Void"
I'm wondering if SOD-EN057 should be changed in the listings to "Muko" (as "Null and Void"). Because I've seen that made for other cards that were renamed like "Harpie's Brother" which in older sets lists appears as "Sky Scout" (as "Harpie's Brother").

In the other languages it already appears as "Muko" in the lists, but doesn't have the (as "Null and Void") so maybe that also needs editing.

I leave it up to you; I accidentally stumbled onto that card and remembered something about its name change, that is why I realized it was still unchanged in the English list. Erdvilla (talk • contribs) 20:29, July 30, 2017 (UTC)


 * I'd say no, there. The card released on SOD (printed on its list) was, quote, "Null and Void". The card now is named "Muko". On the other languages for SOD, we can point it as "Muko", though. Analogous for other cards. At least this has been how I've been doing it. Becasita Pendulum (talk • contribs) 21:33, July 30, 2017 (UTC)

update links
how do you update links when the dub name is reveled you somehow are able to update links from Area arc project > Arc project your impressive (Lionel Head (talk • contribs) 14:04, July 31, 2017 (UTC))


 * I have a bot account named BecaBot. If you mean file links (images, etc.), you'd need to be a mover. Becasita Pendulum (talk • contribs) 21:07, July 31, 2017 (UTC)