User talk:Cheesedude

Welcome to my talk page. Feel free to leave any messages below. However, do not ask me for help with your Deck. I have not actively played the TCG in a very long time, and have not kept up with current rulings. If you leave me a message, I will put your talk page on my watchlist. You may respond on my talk page or your talk page. I will check both.

Visitor stats special page
Per your request, my comment was "here's one that I've wanted for a very long time: a special page of some form that displays anonymized, aggregate visitor stats (browser, screen res, etc.)". If you or a staffer would like some elaboration, feel free to ask. =) 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 07:33, February 26, 2013 (UTC)

Stardust Radiance Dragon
Anyway, I've only started arguments against Project:Translation; I haven't gotten into any edit wars over it. Yes, I don't support it, but I still discussed what I was going to do. You can't block me for "repetitive" anything; control your anger, dude! And, Project:Translation is not a valid enough reason to undo my edit. I explained that if Stardust is used as an adjective, then it loses the meaning of being a name for the dragon; you haven't offered any counterarguments to that. Project:Translation is only that in name; it deals with localizations, not the trans parameter. Please explain your reason as to why the trans parameter name would be the same as the localization/unofficial English name! (I have no idea if it's confirmed.) Simply stating Project:Translation isn't going to cut it. Mad Rest 20:07, February 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Bad news for you, Senior D, Cheesy's a member of Organize who wrote those names in DN. And I would watching my own anger if I were you. -- i  F  r  e  d  C  a  t  20:31, February 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes, and I accept that as the localization, but not the translated name. Those two things are different. The Org (which have stated numerous times themselves) do localizations. And I'm not the one angry enough to risk my adminship by biasly banning other users. Or is he willing to provide the list of all the repetitive, repetitive page moves I've done because I've disagreed with their localizations? Mad Rest 20:36, February 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * The way you talked, it sound like you're little anger on Cheesy for banning on your account. So watch it careful and just listen each other. Talk before post. -- i  F  r  e  d  C  a  t  20:39, February 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * Not quite angry; I enjoy antagonism every once and a while.Mad Rest 20:45, February 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * Then you're enjoying the longer banning if Cheesy made up his mind. -- i  F  r  e  d  C  a  t  20:50, February 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * No, I will be enjoying the revoking of adminship if he doesn't offer all the ways I've vandalized Project: Translation's localizations, repetitively moving the pages with The Organization's localizations, or any way I've actually disagreed with their localizations in a blockable manner. Mad Rest 20:55, February 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * This will be my last comment toward you here - you're actually arguing against the Admins. And you will fallen even lower than dirt if you kept it up. Good luck hold your "ground". -- i  F  r  e  d  C  a  t  21:01, February 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * Actually, no, you're allowed to argue with admins; they don't hold any higher ground in an argument, especially if they're biased. Mad Rest 21:06, February 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * D, you confuse localization with translation. We don't localize. We translate shit and adapt it in a fashion that's linguistically accurate. Localization, is adapting something for a completely different culture by completely changing the name, context, and cultural background. Unless there's a precedent, we translate shit as accurately as possible according to all context, puns, and other things that exist. We only localize as a last resort. Furthermore, you fail to notice time and time again that there are a SHITLOAD of puns in this game, a lot of them deliberate. Japanese, Chinese, and Korean have a VERY long history of using characters for different purposes or using different characters to mean the same word. This is in part due to a combination of illiteracy and in part due to a unique culture of word games that stem from Han characters. If you can't understand this, frankly, you shouldn't be translating and the admins have every right to block your editing rights for the sake of quality control. If you're arguing that this should be "Flashing Carat Dragon - Stardust", then you're blatantly WRONG, because "Senkou" is a pun on "Flashing Light" or "Radiance" or whatever word you choose for it based on the context. The "Carat" part is nothing more than a fancier way of saying it or a reference to old linguistics where people used to spell things wrong. Same for Enmaryu Red Demon's. It is not Jeweled Demon. The "Enma" is a direct reference to King Enma that WAS written as such in some texts for all the reasons I've stated, and basically grants Red Demon's the title as King of the Underworld or Ogre King. Seriously, take a proper professional translation course or ask a scholar on the basics of proper translation and the flexibility you have to show at times and they'll usually say the same thing. Kahunyu (talk • contribs) 21:26, February 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * No, they're not allowed to block me for that; they can state it to me and I can refute it, but the reason given was that I repetitively went against your localizations. Yes, I did. By posting my arguments on the Forum or Talk pages. When did I actually move any of your localizations? And your card names are mostly localizations with no trace of translation (I agree Senkou is a pun on radiance, but kou (karat) is also a reference to the golden aura around the monster; you can't just pick one pun, and forget about the other). Also, the issue here is that Stardust is the monster's name; it loses its meaning when you use it as an adjective, like you did. I can go into how many of your other localizations aren't accurate translations, which you seem to insist, but this isn't the place for that. Still, there was no reason to block me; I had a valid reason for adding the translated name, and he seemed to state that I've been doing this constantly for days on end, when I can't remember any time that an edit war was started over how I disagree with your localizations. The most I did was argue on the Forum, which I am allowed to do, and it was resolved peacefully. I actually just edited this page twice, while providing my reason, but Cheesedude only gave "Translation" as a reason, which doesn't in any way refute or explain how my reason would be wrong. Mad Rest 21:32, February 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * Master D, I explicitly warned you that we could, and would, block you if you continued raising trouble over this issue. Cheesedude's block is perfectly in line with this warning, and he will not be reprimanded for it in any way. 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 21:35, February 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * (Edit conflict) Let it go, it's a one-day ban if you stop now. The Wiki majority has decided to go with The Organization's translations. You were warned by Dinoguy that if you continued to defy that decision, that action would be taken against you. You don't really have a leg to stand on, it's literally you vs. the Wiki majority, regardless of whatever point you think you have. Accept the ban, let it expire and then get with the program and start working with The Organization's translations.--YamiWheeler (talk • contribs) 21:37, February 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * They are not translations; they're localizations (I can still add the translated name if it differs from the localization). Dinoguy, you make it sound like I can't refute any of their localizations. I can do that. You can block me after I continue editing even after the discussion about the card name was resolved. I didn't do any of that. There wasn't any discussion about the name when I edited it; he just blocked me out of anger. I gave my reason for the translation; Cheesedude didn't. As I see it, he should be the one to be blocked. For the Incarnate Dragons, when they were moved, did I move the page immediately, or did I post on the Talk page to say that I don't disagree with them, and wait until it was over? And I can still raise trouble over this issue. The translated names and their localizations are not the same thing; if they don't prove how they are the same, then they are doing the same thing as a vandal; he can't just say "Translation" and expect the problem to be solved. A discussion needs to be opened on whether the localization and the translation are the same. What he did is block me for arguing about their localizations, which I can do, since their card names aren't absolute. Mad Rest 21:47, February 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * OK, this is getting out of hand. D, it's been explained to you (both by administrators, and some established translators) why we do what we do. The buck stops with me, and I'm declaring this conversation over. Cheesedude will not be sanctioned in any way, as his conduct has been above reproach in this matter. When we explain something, we expect it to be followed. Decisions like this are not up for debate. If you continue this vein of conduct, your ban will be extended until you learn,--TwoTailedFox (My Talk Page) 21:54, February 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * That's what I feared, Founder, at least I learned a hard lesson from you and Delta in the past... well, technologic, just Delta Neos. -- i  F  r  e  d  C  a  t  22:01, February 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * Nope, nothing has been explained. I have been unfairly blocked. If you want this to be considered finished, let the translators explain how can the "gold" pun in Stardust be ignored, and how come it's the same whether Stardust is used as an adjective or as a name, when it's not. Only I've been doing the explaining. Nobody else has. Blocking me over starting an argument is not how it works. The reason for my block was that I repetitively went against their localizations. I did, but only in arguments in Forums/Talk pages. And the case with Stardust still hasn't been resoled until my reasons are refuted (That Stardust is a name, and not an adjective; and that "karat" is essential for the pun). I'm not backing down unless any of the translators explain these points.

Mad Rest 22:02, February 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * Nobody cares, man Neonian (talk • contribs) 22:04, February 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * What was explained is that you had a choice to either start working alongside the Organization - which means engaging in open dialog with them when you don't agree with some aspect of their work - instead of simply continuing to push your own translations on the wiki, or to be blocked. You continued with the exact same behavior, so you were blocked. 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 22:05, February 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * And I'm saying, when?! Even right now, I'm asking for them to refute my reasons. On the Forum, I gave my reasons why I thought they were wrong. I'm not pushing my translations; it's just that when they offer an argument, it's usually, "The Organization did this, so it must be right." (You did exactly this when you inexplicably eliminated "Dragon" from the translated name.) Why don't they offer a solid counterargument against my points? How can Stardust retain the same meaning when used as an adjective in their localization and a name in the actual OCG name?! It's actually you who refuse to work with me by saying that I'm wrong without any rebuttal to my points. And it's not like I'm completely against them; I even think their usage of "Sub-Zero" for Sylphine is more accurate than "Cold". 63.141.199.214 (talk) 22:11, February 26, 2013 (UTC) <font color="silver" size="2px">Mad <font color="gold" size="2px">Rest 22:11, February 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * Read the last paragraph. I outlined exactly what would be expected of you to avoid a block. 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 22:16, February 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * And I'm saying, you have no reason to block me if I have a reason why their name isn't suitable. Also, see how you completely ignored the point I said about Stardust? This just proves that you are the ones who don't want to work as a team. You just completely ignore any of my reasons for the translations. Why don't you offer your opinion on my point? When Kahu said his point on "Radiance", I rebutted by saying that, "Yes, but there's also another pun in play here." Did I just go ahead and say, "No, you're wrong, and I won't explain why" (The same thing you're doing now). You are the ones pushing The Organization's translations; I'm just offering points on why some of them are wrong. If you reply with anything other than a rebuttal toward my Stardust points, then you're just proving that you're the ones not working together. <font color="silver" size="2px">Mad <font color="gold" size="2px">Rest  22:23, February 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * Also, can you please refrain from blocking me until the conversation is over? We are in the middle of a discussion of a card's name; arguing about the name is no reason to be blocked. <font color="silver" size="2px">Mad <font color="gold" size="2px">Rest 22:25, February 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * There is no pun in that gold aura. That's the whole point. The character for that is not Carat per se. It's "Jewel" in its most vague sense if you break it down. The same definition as tama, or orb or jade or whatever you want to call it. There's a shitload of stuff like that. And Japanese/Chinese/Korean? Certain characters mean one thing but are reserved specifically for a name. That character in particular is NOT used in modern Japanese, is NOT used in modern Chinese, and is NOT used in modern Korean in a form of standard meaningful vocabulary. It is primarily used in names and titles as far as I know, and frankly carry about as much weight as Peter as a word for Rock. Furthermore, in this case were following the official manga translation precedent with Power Tool and Ancient Fairy. And Stardust Dragon is often just called "Stardust" as if it were its name in the animu and in the OCG sphere, as if its given name was Stardust, and its family name was Dragon. In that regard, Stardust Radiance Dragon is a perfectly fine translation. Not to mention Radiance can also be used to refer to glowing auras or perfection, both of which "Jewel" or "carat" or whatever as a character is used to indirectly refer to in old texts. The only one of the Duel Dragons that your argument could actually stand for is Ancient, and that's only because it's the only one that the mangaka copped out on and didn't give a seperate name instead of going Ancient Fairy(which is possibly due to a bit of a translation derp regarding Korea's card names but I'll get into that some other day). That having been said, there are a few derps on the wiki due to miscommunication that we have to iron out, but we're getting to it and our synchronization process isn't quite perfect yet. Calm down, do some more research if you want to counter us. Also, wiki guys don't block him for now until we straighten this thing out. Block him if both me and Earl say so, maybe but don't get too gung-ho. Kahunyu (talk • contribs) 22:38, February 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * I didn't address your point because I generally have no business discussing the finer points of translation. I can't speak to any issues you may have been discussing on card pages, because I don't follow card pages and so haven't seen any such discussion. 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 22:36, February 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * Well, I'd rather continue this on the card's Talk page, but thank you for actually having the guts to reply to my points, unlike the others. Anyway, that precedent only applies to the TCG. I agree that "karat" isn't all that important. Also there's "Enma Dragon - Red Demon" and "Beelze, King of Dark Dragons"; these cards all keep their names and aren't used as adjectives, so something like "Stardust, the Radiance Dragon" would be more true to the precedent, and it would actually be valid for the trans parameter too. But this should be on the Talk page.
 * @Dinoguy That's because there wasn't any discussion about this card; he just blocked me out of anger, and because he couldn't think of any counterargument to what I said. 22:43, February 26, 2013 (UTC) <font color="silver" size="2px">Mad <font color="gold" size="2px">Rest 22:43, February 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * To be blunt he was more blocking you because you were being a whining little kid and the org and wiki folks were busy with higher priorities and couldn't afford to put up with you. Choice of words has a drastic impact on how seriously and how in depth people take your word, and to be frank yours could use some work in the tone of voice. Your little episodes have been part of the reason for the lack of synchronization, broseph. <_<;; Also, Power Tool Mecha says hi. There's also the fact that Stardust Radiance Dragon could be read as Stardust=Name, Radiance Dragon = Middle + Family name similarly to the structure of the original Stardust, but you probably didn't consider that, did you. Random note, Middle and Family names actually used to denote someone's house, social background and status. It's valid. Drop it, stop being so literal, and stop screaming about differing opinions. And if you drop the org a memo on DGz or something we'll react faster. Kahunyu (talk • contribs) 22:51, February 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * Senior D, just drop it please, and do it now. Before your warrant got tearing into million pieces and your licence become permanent revoked. -- i  F  r  e  d  C  a  t  22:54, February 26, 2013 (UTC)