User talk:Dinoguy1000/Archive/2012/08

Automatic "searched via" list
User:Falzar FZ/Sandbox7. I've finally decided to finish it off (though it only contains whatever is on the page Searcher). To use it, transclude into to any Tips Page and preview. Do you think it can/should be added to the every tips page? Like through the Navigation template, but in that case, it can't really split between Traditional/Advanced Format, but having it in its own section or in a box would work. It's also sorta heavy on the #ask:s. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 10:31, July 15, 2012 (UTC) And, is there a query for "non-Tuner monster"? I can't seem to find one for things like Gusto Egul. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 11:27, July 18, 2012 (UTC)


 * Heh, I was starting to wonder when someone else would take that and finish it off. =D
 * I think we should probably use concepts for a lot of the queries before deploying it; that should help out with the template's "weight".
 * Well, there's ; have you tried that? 「 ディノ 奴  千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 16:52, July 18, 2012 (UTC)


 * After previewing it on a few Card Tips pages, I'm thinking we should somehow set it off from the rest of the page, moreso than just via an ; I'm thinking either a box (my preference) or a separate section. This would more easily allow us to add a note stating that the searcher info is added by a template and point people to a place to report omissions and inaccuracies. What do you think? 「 ディノ 奴  千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 18:51, July 18, 2012 (UTC)


 * Total Monsters =
 * Tuners =
 * ∴ Total non-Tuner monsters =
 * !Tuner monster =
 * I agree on the box and the rest.
 * Also, I've basically got a convert SMW list to the Searcher page list script done. A convert Searcher page list to auto-searched via template code is being worked on.
 * -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 03:53, July 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * Hmm... That's an interesting/weird problem. For now, I've fixed casing on  links/property values in CardTable2; if that doesn't help, I'll add an explicit "non-Tuner monster" value somewhere (maybe as another value for Property:Monster Type? that would make a lot of sense...). 「 ディノ 奴  千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 05:26, July 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * It's maybe because anything that doesn't have a Monster Type does not have "No Entry" . ! here refers to something like anything with a Monster Type, but not a Tuner monster. Things without anything doesn't count. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 05:38, July 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * Right, I knew that (no I didn't =D ). Should be fixed now, though I won't promise that I didn't muck something up. =D 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 05:47, July 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * Seems to work, the number of non-Tuners is increasing. Then again, how come it doesn't work with !Nomi... -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 06:22, July 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * I think it's because Property:Monster Type can only ever have one value, whereas Property:Summoning gets as many values as a card has summoning properties. 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 07:42, July 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes, that makes sense. !Nomi means has "something other than Nomi". So if it has Nomi/Cannot_Set, it does have "something other than Nomi", so it is not excluded.
 * Updated to complete list and simplified it a bit as well... and I just noticed another redundancy can be simplified to just Attribute. Same for Type, Level, ATK, DEF. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 02:00, July 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * Ctrl " " in the source for the skipped cards which can't really be done via the query (or weird stuff I haven't bothered with :P like "Contact Out")
 * -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 02:00, July 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * For Machina Armored Unit, I would say just add it for all monsters; there are only maybe a couple dozen cases at most that it would be incorrect. I really can't say how to handle the others. 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 03:35, July 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * Unless I missed a few things, I actually get 2 exclusions for that. The rest of the comments are on the "Check" page. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 02:16, July 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm counting 8 cards you'd have to exclude, based on what's listed there. That's not terrible for listing out manually in the template, but the list would have to be checked/updated every time a new overpowered Machine-Type monster got unveiled. 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 03:50, July 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * 6 of them are either Extra Deck monsters or Nomi, so they would have been filtered out anyways so they don't need to be manually excluded. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 03:56, July 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * Aah, that makes sense. I didn't look at the monsters themselves. What are the two that would need filtered? 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 04:29, July 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * The 2 that are Main Deck monsters and listed in "Can always be Special Summoned", as mentioned on the page.
 * Mechanical Sea Dragon - Plesion, B.E.S. Big Core MK-2
 * I've already excluded those two from "Searches" list on the "Check" page. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 04:36, July 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * Just "Broken Blocker" and "Future Fusion" left.
 * The only simple solution I can think of for "Broken Blocker" is letting the Card Table template do it.
 * For "Future Fusion", I'm not sure why !No Entry doesn't work, when all the No Entry ones should only have one value, which is the No Entry value. Alternatively, if we remove No Entry from "Fusion Material for",  won't work since it has datatype Page, not String.
 * -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 12:09, July 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * Busy, recently, so I'll continue this slowly.
 * Should the concepts be grouped together (e.g. ) or seperate for each (e.g.   and then   on a separate page)? Having them separate means we can create much less pages, but I'm not sure if there'll be a difference in "weight". -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 13:53, August 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't know; I'm suddenly not sure what you're doing. What pages are you talking about to be created? 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 14:16, August 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * The use of concepts was actually your suggestion (first reply). Take Wind-Up Magician for example.
 * The current line is:
 * Should concept pages be created separately, so that we end up using:
 * or grouped, so that we end up using:
 * -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 14:27, August 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * or grouped, so that we end up using:
 * -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 14:27, August 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 14:27, August 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * Aah, right. Thanks for reminding me.
 * I don't know which is better TBH; I haven't done nearly enough with Concepts yet to really have a feel for them. The original intention behind my suggestion, though, was for concepts like Concept:Pyramid Turtle Searchable Cards, rather than more generic concepts (in fact, the possibility of using more generic concepts actually hadn't occurred to me). Delt may be able to provide additional insight. 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 14:36, August 12, 2012 (UTC)

Forum Page
Hey Dinoguy. Please can you look at this Forum Page. I know you're the Template expert!! :-) -- Super Sponge!!   07:23, August 2, 2012 (UTC)

Happy Birthday

 * Heya, happy birthday! Have a great day, Dinoguy. =D --YamiWheeler (talk • contribs) 03:36, August 5, 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks, Yami! =D 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 04:32, August 5, 2012 (UTC)


 * Can't let the day end without wishing you a happy birthday as well! --Golden Key (talk • contribs) 02:08, August 6, 2012 (UTC)


 * Thank you as well, Golden Key! =D 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 03:47, August 6, 2012 (UTC)

Card Appearances Links
Would there be any way to generate a list of articles that have Card Appearances pages linked in Decklist (or even just in mainspace articles)? It was common before we opened the anime/manga lore parameters by default. I thought I had gotten all of them, but I just found another one this morning at PaniK. I'd like to make sure I didn't miss any more of them. Thanks. And happy belated birthday. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 14:37, August 5, 2012 (UTC)


 * I think I got it; any such pages should start appearing in Category:Decklist transclusions linking to Card Appearances pages. And thanks for the happy birthday! (it's not belated, at least for me; it's not even noon here ;) ) 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 16:46, August 5, 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks. That category appears to be empty. Did we get them all already or have they just not started appearing yet? I based the "belated" on my perspective. I read the previous happy birthday post yesterday (though since I went to bed a bit after midnight, it was technically today). So, yeah. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 23:31, August 5, 2012 (UTC)


 * Since we can't currently see how much is in the job queue, it's really not possible to say either way. I can say, though, that Decklist has 8,000+ transclusions, so it's unlikely that all entries have already been updated (or maybe the job queue empties faster than I thought... who knows =/ ). 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 00:47, August 6, 2012 (UTC)


 * Yeah, but its only going to show up in anime and manga Decklists and only a small percentage of those, at that. There should not be anything like this in 5D's and ZEXAL articles at all. I really did think I went through and got them all quite a while a go, but at the very least I missed the one at PaniK. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 01:14, August 6, 2012 (UTC)


 * That's not to say that the job queue follows the same order, though (I'm not sure what order he job queue uses; it wouldn't surprise me if it's page ID though). ;) 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 03:48, August 6, 2012 (UTC)

Hey, guess what? (archetypes again)

 * See Talk:Yu-Gi-Oh! ZEXAL - Episode 067. I asked Ark about it. Apparently, anime cards don't even specify furigana, which means that what we currently have as "Heraldic" and "Medallion" actually all belong to another larger archetype supported by "Heraldic Beast Twin-Head Eagle", with "Heraldic" also having several of its own support cards and "Medallion" having none (and "Heraldic Beast" having even more still).


 * Do you recall any examples of anime cards specifying furigana in archetypes? I wasn't aware that they didn't. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 01:22, August 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't see furigana on any of the kanji in the image we have of Twin-Head Eagle, other than its name; this may be a case of the anime leaving out a non-essential element to simplify animation. I would want to see a specific example of a support card in the anime supporting a card that is not part of the archetype that support card supports in the real-life game due to furigana differences, before coming to the conclusion that anime support effects ignore the furigana. If it is true, though, that just made anime archetype support that much more complicated. =P
 * I don't generally pay much attention to anime card images, so I can't recall any off the top of my head. We'll probably need to just take a random sample of recent anime cards and see what's up with them that way. 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 01:45, August 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * This has nothing to do with real life cards yet. The support card is anime-only, the others are real life. "Heraldic Beast Twin-Head Eagle" was originally thought to only support "Heraldic" Xyz Monsters, which would exclude "Number 69: God Medallion Coat of Arms", which is the card Tron ultimately targets with it in today's episode (the only current "proper" target is "Number 8: Heraldic King Genome Heriter"). Looking closer at the image, it doesn't specify any furigana, so "God Medallion" is a valid target. It originally looked like an issue of an action in the anime directly contradicted what was written on the card. But since the card doesn't specify furigana, its actually legit. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 02:11, August 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * Japanese lore of anime-only cards do not have furigana, probably to simplify animation. The effect of "Twin-Head Eagle" says 紋章 monsters. But just by looking its lore, we do not know if it is or . We know "Heraldic Beast Eale" supports  because Tron says "Monshō" not "Medarion". But Tron does not say "Monshō" or "Medarion" when he activates the effect of "Twin-Head Eagle". Since it is used with "Number 69: God Medallion Coat of Arms", I think it supports . Similar, "Block Lock" does not support "Destiny HERO" monsters. ZingerZheng (talk • contribs) 02:16, August 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * Ah, that explains a lot. It supporting "Heraldic" was an assumption based on the fact that "Medallion" hadn't had any support yet then. Very fortunate, as that means there isn't another archetype to worry about here. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 04:35, August 14, 2012 (UTC)

Token Template
Um, little problem. Y'know, in the article for tokens, the cards which go in "Summoned by the effect of" are separated by coma. But, in the case of "Fireball Token" for example, it is summoned by "Goka, the Pyre of Malice", which has a coma on its name. So, the template considers it as 2 different cards. :/ I tried to play around with the but it didn't work. :/ LegendaryAsariUgetsu (talk • contribs) 20:03, August 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * Crap, I was afraid of that happening. I could probably special-case that, but it's not an extensible solution; I'll have to figure out some better way of working around it (and in the meantime, there's always Delt's workaround). 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 09:24, August 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * ...And, of course, obvious solution is obvious. I'll just change the parameter to allow a bullet-delimited list instead (or rather, because of the fact that it's used widely as a comma-delimited parameter, "as well"), and we can switch that article over and get rid of the current hack. 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 03:45, August 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * And done. 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 04:58, August 22, 2012 (UTC)

Image bull
Ok, someone needs to tell me what's going on with this. In Yu-Gi-Oh! ZEXAL - Episode 067, the article is perfectly content letting me have two images in the same paragraph - the one of the "ZW" monsters and the one of Tron. Later in the article, I attempt the same thing and it renders as one huge paragraph if I put two images in it. Instead, I had to break up the paragraphs. I can't tell what's causing it and it pisses me off that it works fine the first time and then doesn't work later. I cannot figure it out and its impacting how the articles look. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 02:28, August 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure either... could you make the edit you're wanting to so I can see exactly what you're trying to do? (You can revert afterward and just link me to the diff ;) ) 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 03:43, August 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * http://yugioh.wikia.com/index.php?title=Yu-Gi-Oh!_ZEXAL_-_Episode_067&diff=2061836&oldid=2061765 Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 05:06, August 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * Hmm... the most I can say is that the paragraph isn't getting an enclosing &lt;p/> tag pair, but I'm not sure what exactly triggers it... It looks like a parser bug, at any rate. I think for now, you'll just have to leave it as is. 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 05:31, August 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * Alright then, thanks. Its affecting several articles at this rate. It's been bugging me for a while. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 05:37, August 22, 2012 (UTC)

Code Issues
I would like to ask for your little helps with List of Gemini monsters, it happened to lacking a full list of Manga/Anime monster that displayed there, as well as lacked 'f "Tuned Magician" in the list of OCG/TCG. That kindly drew my attention because of IP-Addressed User posted a comment in that article said that "Tuned Magician" is missing (also for "...further result" button is absented). May you do so please? -- i  F  r  e  d  C  a  t  00:30, August 26, 2012 (UTC)


 * Tuned is listed there now. The anime/manga list seems to be empty because there don't seem to be any anime/manga-exclusive Gemini monsters; I went ahead and expanded that list to cover all Gemini monsters regardless. 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 01:18, August 26, 2012 (UTC)


 * Yea, turned out that it didn't updating lately... Thank you for helping it out. -- i  F  r  e  d  C  a  t  01:27, August 26, 2012 (UTC)


 * Yeah, there are no anime/manga Geminis. In fact, not one was ever even played that I can recall. A few appeared in 5D's, but not in-Duel. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 01:38, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * That's about what I suspected after seeing the list, but thanks for confirming. Can you say whether they didn't appear because they got shafted when ZEXAL supplanted 5D's (or 5D's supplanted GX; I'm not too sure on the timing here), or did they just never seem to be featured because other cards were getting all the focus? 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 01:48, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't really know. It strikes me that they would have been hard to use in the anime - taking two turns before they could use their effects. Anime Duels tend to be quicker. They don't fit a realistic amount of monsters into a single Duel as it is sometimes, so taking two turns to even be able to fully use one monster wouldn't help. As far as I know, the only ones that even appeared were "Gigaplant" in a flashback, "Crusader of Endymion" (seen twice, once in 5D's and once in ZEXAL, by random passerby Duelists) and (according to our Gemini monster page, at least) "Phoenix Gearfried" in a WRGP poster. One Gemini was even named after a GX anime character, but he never ended up using it, outside of the Tag Force games. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 02:03, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

New template for cards
So, could you please check User talk:Cheesedude, the last... 10 replies? Well, no need to read all that, check just starting from the 10th reply, from down to up. ;) It's a lot of stuff, but well, I think it'd be better if you took a look on it. :P Thanks. LegendaryAsariUgetsu (talk • contribs) 16:52, August 26, 2012 (UTC)


 * I've been skimming it as you guys have been discussing; basically, you're looking for an analog to Unofficial name/Unofficial lore, except to be used on effects that have been reconstructed based on what the character(s) say and what the card does, right (or am I misunderstanding what you're looking for)? I can try something for that after a bit. ;) 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 16:56, August 26, 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes, that. Cause y'know, we can't know the exact stats and lores of cards if the cards aren't shown, so we have to try deducing them for many cards from the anime and manga. Basically, we were thinking on a template like those that show the card's name/lore is not official, which showed the exact lore/effects of the card aren't know; what we add on the card article is merely deduced with what was shown in the series. LegendaryAsariUgetsu (talk • contribs) 17:53, August 26, 2012 (UTC)


 * So, how's this sound for the actual text of the template?
 * This card's effect in the [anime|manga|anime and manga] was never shown directly; the effect listed here is a reconstruction and may not be accurate or complete.
 * 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 18:02, August 26, 2012 (UTC)


 * ....Perfect! :D It uses few words and describe it very well. Kanky approves! xD Just remember to try making the template itself short/easy to write, 'cuz I'll need to use it a lot. :3LegendaryAsariUgetsu (talk • contribs) 22:13, August 27, 2012 (UTC)


 * How does Reconstructed effect look? 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 22:19, August 27, 2012 (UTC)


 * Sounds good. Once I get used to it I'll be writing it in less than 2 secs. So, one should just add "|manga", "|anime", "|movie", or anything else at the end of it, just like in the Unofficial lore/name templates? LegendaryAsariUgetsu (talk • contribs) 23:42, August 27, 2012 (UTC)


 * Yep, basically. I can add it to the edit tools box that appears below the edit summary field (on Monobook)/when you click the "more +" button (on Wikia) so that you can insert it with a single click, if you want. 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 23:45, August 27, 2012 (UTC)


 * Sounds good again. ^^ Thanks for the regard, as always. ^^ LegendaryAsariUgetsu (talk • contribs) 00:10, August 28, 2012 (UTC)


 * Done, and no problem. =) 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 00:17, August 28, 2012 (UTC)


 * Do you think this template should be used for not-known-if-it's-a-normal-or-effect-monster cards as well? I mean, monsters that appeared in the anime/manga, but the card was never shown, and the effect never activated, so we treat them as Normal Monsters, but they may be effect monster as well. "Three-Stage Belly Knight" was a normal monster since his debut in Rank 14, but in Rank 17, Yuma used its effect, and the card was shown, then it is an effect monsters. So, do you think this new template should be used for cases like this as well? LegendaryAsariUgetsu (talk • contribs) 00:54, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * I think it's probably better to use ??? instead of assuming it's one of Normal or Effect (or something else). This isn't much different from how we treat unknown Attributes and Types (which we also don't like people guessing at). 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 01:05, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * Problem is when adding the card to the chapter's "Featured Cards" and to the character's Deck. Then we put the monster in the "|normal monsters =" or in the "|effect monsters ="? LegendaryAsariUgetsu (talk • contribs) 01:23, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * Just put them in "|other monsters =". ;). 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 01:30, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * Oh, didn't know that section existed. xD LegendaryAsariUgetsu (talk • contribs) 01:36, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * Just to chime in, my silence on this entire thing means I think it's awesome. Nice work, guys. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 01:38, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks, man, and thanks for taking the time to say so! =D 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 01:46, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * Awesome, isn't it? Thanks. ^^ I'm already inaugurating the new template in tons of manga cards. xD The cards look much better with it. ^^ LegendaryAsariUgetsu (talk • contribs) 02:06, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * Ok, I'm a bit confused now. Why is this being used for cards that do have their full effects disclosed on the card, like "Twin Pillar of Ice"? Yeah, it's a vague manga effect, but it's still the real, official effect. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 23:17, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure; I only intended it to be used for cards whose effect text was never explicitly shown on-screen/-page. I think for stuff like Twin Pillar, we need one lore field for the effect as-printed, and another for a reconstruction based on its observed effect(s), with the reconstructed lore field always accompanied by the disclaimer template. That would allow us to automate its inclusion, and also to distinguish completely between the two cases. 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 23:22, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * Oh, I added the template to that one 'cuz, well, the actual effect was not shown. The lore literally reads "Two pillars of ice emerge on your field." This is not a Yu-Gi-Oh! effect, it's a real life event. The actual effect is not precisely known, we just know that one pillar can negate an attack, but we don't know if there are other effects, limitations, drawbacks, etc. So, we don't know the actual effect accurately. LegendaryAsariUgetsu (talk • contribs) 23:37, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * Ah, ok, that does make sense then. I think we could word the displayed text better though. "May not be accurate" can easily be interpreted by readers as "lolz, we guessed!". Which I suppose is true. It's conjecture, but its conjecture based on evidence. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 15:58, August 30, 2012 (UTC)

So...
What is the standard episode duel layout? Is it like this:


 * Player 1
 * Action 1
 * Action 2


 * Player 2
 * Action 1
 * Action 2

Or is it like this:

Action 1, Action 2
 * Player 1

Action 1, Action 2
 * Player 2

If you have questions, please ask them. E n e r g y X ∞ 22:07, August 28, 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm afraid I'm really not the person to ask that. Cheesedude will probably be more help with Duel-related stuff then me. If you have any other questions, though, feel free to ask me! =) 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 22:16, August 28, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, I'm going to ask him then. E n e r g y X ∞ 22:17, August 28, 2012 (UTC)

Question
Um, is there a way to edit a page and not automatically follow it? :P LegendaryAsariUgetsu (talk • contribs) 00:59, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * Not in the Wikia skin, from what I can see. Monobook has a "Follow this page" checkbox to the right of the "Minor edit" checkbox, right below the edit summary input box. 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 01:07, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * my preferences -> Email -> Follow pages I... -> Edit. Hope it helps. ZingerZheng (talk • contribs) 01:18, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * I thought of mentioning that too, but the way Asari worded his question suggested that he was wanting to know if he could avoid following individual pages at the time of editing them (correct me if I'm wrong, though, Asari =) ). ;) 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 01:20, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * Exactly, you psychic xD. I wanna follow the latest pages of the mangas that I add, which are popular targets of spam, but don't wanna follow every card's gallery page which I add an image or random pages which I just make a minor fixing. So, I just go to my preferences, change to "MonoBook", and un-mark the option "Follow this page" on the article when editing it? LegendaryAsariUgetsu (talk • contribs) 01:29, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * Basically, yeah (and if you do, welcome to the Monobook Club! XD ). As for watchlist wrangling, keep in mind Special:EditWatchlist and Special:EditWatchlist/raw (those should also be accessible from Special:Watchlist/edit and Special:Watchlist/raw, respectively). ;) 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 01:34, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * ....Lol, didn't like it. :P Guess I'm too used to this standard Wikia one. xD It took me some minutes just to make a simple edit on a card article using MonoBook xD (by the way I just learned recently 'bout the shortcuts on "more", so I'm like enjoying myself using 'em now >8D). But those links are very useful, thanks for the support. ^^ LegendaryAsariUgetsu (talk • contribs) 01:42, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * That's interesting; this is the first time I've ever had the opportunity to hear the opinion of someone using Monobook for the first time when they're used to a different skin (especially one as different as Wikia/Oasis). If you feel like typing a bit, I'd definitely like to hear some specifics of what you didn't like and what gave you trouble. ;)
 * No problem, I really like helping other editors out like this! =D 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 01:45, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * Haha, I see. Actually, the main problem was that I got lost. *__* I'm very used to the Wikia skin, to the point of using it virtually automatically (I manually type unofficial name/lore templates in no more than 2 or 3 seconds, for example, as I have to add 'em on the new manga cards every month for 2 different manga). So, with that totally different skin, I just screwed it up. :P Although the detailed links to the left on the main page and to the top on card articles look pretty nice. It's more practical. Oh, but I didn't like the look of it xD. Like, all white and square xD. So, for short, no actual reason. xD I'd just take a good while to get used to that totally new skin. LegendaryAsariUgetsu (talk • contribs) 02:03, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * Aah, I suspected some of that might've been about it. There is another skin I like better than Monobook myself, called Vector; it was developed specifically to supplant Monobook and to help with accessibility/usability, but apparently Wikia will have no part of that, at least for the forseeable future. If you're curious, though, Vector is the skin used on e.g. Wikipedia. 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 02:09, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * ...Instead, we keep just testing MediaWiki's unnecessary new toys. I understand why Fred is that pissed with them. xP LegendaryAsariUgetsu (talk • contribs) 02:20, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * Not really. Most of what Fred's pissed at is Wikia's fumbling of an update, rather than new or changed features on the MediaWiki side. You can't blame him for confusing the two, though. 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 02:26, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * LegendaryAsari, you rang?
 * Not exact just to Fumbling of an update, but also what Asari said. You both are actually right, I am pissing off at anything MediaWiki threw at us. They still don't get the quotation in the link, like "Harpie's Feather Duster", and if it was drop list then I pushed  in "Harpie's" word, it didn't added and the drop list disappeared - wasted my pushing for nothing! That's other thing they need to get it working. Other part, Width Size on Wikia... is still the issues. --  i  F  r  e  d  C  a  t  17:04, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * There's also the new system for viewing files, which didn't improve it in nothing, it's the opposite. My internet connection's quality depends on the time, so when it is not good, it take me a lot just to open a file in order to edit it or copy the name. Before, I just had to click, and done. I've seen no actually good neither necessary changes made recently. LegendaryAsariUgetsu (talk • contribs) 22:07, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * While those are valid concerns, the problem with apostrophes in names is a problem with Semantic MediaWiki, which is completely separate from MediaWiki (in spite of the name), and the problem with viewing files is Wikia's idiocy in insisting on social-network-ifying MediaWiki. 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 22:13, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

Anything to add?
Discussion about archetypes here. I get the feeling I've offended him by telling him he's wrong. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 16:38, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm not entirely offended, but I do fell you are insulting me intelligence by simply shooting me down without, what sees to me, consideration.--Rocket.knight.777 (talk • contribs) 16:46, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * That was not my intent and I apologize. I did not mean to sound as if I was not considering your point of view. The fact is, I held that point of myself some time ago. You can see that from the forum discussion I linked to. I even flip-flopped later, as you saw on the Djinn talk page. Myself and Dinoguy are the primary "archetype guys" here, so yes, I feel personally invested in this, which I could make me sound arrogant about that. Again, I apologize. I'm hoping Dinoguy may be able to help here, he's better with words than I am. If you feel this strongly about the issue, I invite you to open another forum discussion about it. It will get attention from more people than a talk page would. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 16:52, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm better in small talks than big crowds. Even online I feel the fear of being lost in the crowd. By the time I write a response to one person nearly 4 or 5 other people will have already commented and I point is then moot. Just a small phobia of mine. Going back to our previous conversion for a second, Do you think a person who created a deck based on the Roids would include Necroid, Android, and Jeroid? Doubtful, they do little to none for the deck.--Rocket.knight.777 (talk • contribs) 17:08, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * Japan name, Knight 777, it's Japan names. They shared same names in Japan language, like Goldy once told me about "Photon Generator Unit"; though it's not major to "Photon" (name), it is for "Cyber Dragon" series. -- i  F  r  e  d  C  a  t  17:10, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * I am going by Japanese names FredCat. And even then, I'm sure the Japanese players would only use the cards that fit the theme and not the name. The artists behind the cards didn't go to the trouble of making the cards in an archetype similar for nothing. Name, support, AND theme are and/or should be the what makes the archetype. This is Rocket Knight FYI, can log in, in a hurry for class.--131.183.107.139 (talk) 17:46, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * Here's a thought. As anyone ever thought of writting or e-mailing Konami and asking them what makes up an archetype? If anyone would know, it might be them.--Rocket.knight.777 (talk • contribs) 19:07, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * I'll leave a comment there, and I ask that further discussion all happens either there or at whatever venue the discussion may be moved to, so that it's kept together as much as possible. 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 21:19, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * Don't bother Dino, I surrender. This is just going around in circles. It seems I've found a few more stubborn than I. I still disagree, but I'll agree to disagree. You guys do it your way, I'll do it mine (in my stories I mean). I'm just going to walk away now, and put this behind me. Feel free to delete everything in regards to this conversation.--Rocket.knight.777 (talk • contribs) 21:24, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * That's fine, but I would at least like to try and explain the wiki's stance on this as a single narrative, instead of the bits and pieces that Cheesedude, Zheng, Yami, Delt, and Fred have provided you with over multiple posts. While I don't expect you to change your opinion at this point (and that's fine! if you hold a different opinion, it will encourage you to continue thinking about this, and maybe you will realize something we haven't considered yet =) ), I would really appreciate it if you at least had the patience to read what I have to say. I'm still working on typing up my reply over there; give me around ten minutes or so and I should have it finished up and posted. =) 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 21:30, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * I've posted my comment there; I apologize in advance for its length, but there really wasn't any way around it. 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 22:14, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

scope="col" in set list
would there be any difference if it is removed? so far, i do not see any difference (please educate me if there is). furthermore, setlist being created by deltaneos also do not have the scope="col" in it. hope to clarify this asap, whether we really need it. thanks for helping! -Lpoi (talk • contribs) 04:08, August 31, 2012 (UTC)


 * The scope attribute is a purely semantic one, meaning it has no visual effect in any major browser. Instead, it is meant to clarify the relationship between a header cell and the rest of the table: any given table header cell generally describes the data that is found in the accompanying row or column, information that is important for screen readers and other assistive browsers. More info can be found on any number of HTML reference sites, e.g., and the specification is here. 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 04:24, August 31, 2012 (UTC)