Forum:September 2012 Banlist Predictions

We're a little early to start this conversation (Around 2.5 months away from September), but I thought it might be time to talk about the September 2012 Banlist.

Ace's Picks
Forbidden Limited Unlimited
 * Future Fusion - It needs to be banned. Chaos Dragons are really troublesome.
 * Rescue Rabbit - Yeah, it's time.
 * Inzektor Dragonfly and Hornet - Too annoying, make it stop.
 * Maybe Wind-Up Carrier Zenmaity? - The loop is annoying, but they haven't topped that much. Maybe a light hit, or none at all?
 * Red-Eyes Darkness Dragon? - It makes the OTK with Hieratic harder and it's another hit to Chaos Dragon, sadly all Dragon decks as well.
 * Level Limit - Area B
 * Marshmallon

Thoughts guys? -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  01:22, June 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * Well, what about Semi-Limited and Unlimited part? -- i  F  r  e  d  C  a  t  01:25, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

Hmm, Dragonfly and Hornet, yes. Zenmaity, maybe. Rescue Rabbit, dubious. Future Fusion, no. I use a Disaster Dragon, so that would cripple my deck horrendously. --Perfect Sige (talk • contribs) 01:27, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

Maybe keep Zenmaity where it is and ban Wind-Up Hunter? I heard somewhere that even with Zenmaity and/or Rat hit, there's a way to do a similar loop with Wind-Up Magician as a keystone card, so the easiest solution could just be to ban Hunter. Of course, they might not need too because Wind-Ups don't seem to be crazily topping now... if you want to ban Future Fusion per Dragon abuse, just ban Five-Headed Dragon; other decks would otherwise get collateral damage. 108.196.206.15 (talk) 01:37, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

I can't see inzektors getting hit in the next ban list because konami still wants to make money off of the archtype. Its going to be the same as when blackwings were the top deck. DragonslayerX1234 (talk • contribs) 01:42, June 8, 2012 (UTC)DragonslayerX1234DragonslayerX1234 (talk • contribs) 01:42, June 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * They don't make money off of Inzektors anymore. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 01:52, June 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * Agreed with Summoned Skull 2, as of Battle Pack; Epic Dawn, they become more successful since they re-released the old cards into new PSCT. -- i  F  r  e  d  C  a  t  01:56, June 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * Yeah, Konami only makes money off the initial booster pack sale, they don't make more money afterwards. The guys who get money are the secondary sellers, as in the ones who buy boxes, then sell the cards.


 * I could personally see Level Limit - Area B and Marshmallon getting unlimited, they don't seem to have done that much in the format. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  02:01, June 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * Most likely those will be unlimited. If not in September, than in March. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 02:02, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure that Hunter needs a ban, I mean there are other combos with Hunter, but they aren't as consistently done as with Carrier. Plus, Carrier can be spammed and then you have a huge field that makes you take a bunch of damage. Not a great argument, but a valid thought. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  02:06, June 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * Agreed, Inzektor or Wind-Up player can game'd their opponent just with single Hornet or Hunter, 1 copy is all they needed. It's like for myself, I just now completed my "E-Rabbit Dino" (hybrid deck of E-HERO and Rabbit Dino) that run single Rescue Rabbit and it worked very well. -- i  F  r  e  d  C  a  t  02:11, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

so here's my thoughts

Banned
 * Rescue Rabbit:Dino rabbits are pain to the butt.
 * Five headed dragon:banning future fusion would kill chimeratech machines so if the dragons have no targets to reveal...also SOME dragon decks can keep future fusion untill they get this out and if that happens, game over.
 * Inzektor Hornet:if you limit this, they will just use more cards to dump/search/recycle it. also they have that new ladybug so inzektors should be a rank 5 spam deck.
 * Wind-up Hunter:well maybe not but if they insist on hitting wind ups do this

Limited
 * Atum:the drop-3-atum-hieratic-loop/otk cant be done with 1 atum.
 * REDMD:i said this before and i'll say it again,this is OP.limit this and we should be ok
 * snoww/grapha:Maybe.DW's are big

Semi'd
 * Lightpulsar:obvious
 * Dragged Down:Maybe

Unlimited
 * Magic Cylinder:Seriously,who uses this besides burn?

That was my prediction --LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 08:14, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

Banned


 * Hornet: Speaks for itself
 * FF (possibly): This is a POWERFUL card when used properly. But I personally thing it isn't too OP. Even if it is banned, Chaos Dragons can still use Lightsworns to mill. Which is what I usually use anyway.
 * Mind Control : Instant Xyz/Synchro fodder. No cost, no conditions.
 * Wind-Up Hunter: STOP THE LOOP

Limited


 * Atum: Take this away, breaks the OTK
 * Grapha: YEAAAAAAH, this one has to die.
 * Rescue Rabbit: I feel this one shouldn't be banned, but a limited would do it good. I haven't encountered this one enough to have a firm opinion on it.
 * Wind-Up Zenmaines (Possible): Its annoying and OP to me. I've had to deal with it A LOT and I don't like it.

Semi'd


 * REDMD: Powerful, yes, OP, not really. There are a LOT of ways to get rid of this one. Semi would be acceptable.

Unlimited

None

Jamesfury (talk • contribs) 08:52, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

Semi redmd is pointless, the hieratic oak needs 2, but redmd doesn't need a hit, atum does. SharkTenjo 10:06, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

Also, most competitive decks only use 2? I know Chaos Dragon uses 2 at most. Not too sure about Hieratic.

I'm guessing nothing will happen to Dark World, it hasn't been topping, it is prevalent in certain areas, but not that much of an issue. Also, Chimeratech Machines is really an OTK kinda deck, they don't try, but a 2nd turn Future with Overload is crazy and game winning, if the opponent can't stop it. Also, Mind Control is kinda balanced when it's at one, and it's nothing like Brain Control, because the monster can't be tributed or used to attack. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  12:50, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

Something certainly has to be done about Rescue Rabbit. At east make it Semi-limited. I'd rather that get banned than Tour Guide for example. I think Laggia is safe to be honest --Spongebob456 (talk • contribs) 12:54, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

Laggia is probably safe, due to it needing Dino materials. The only decks that come to mind are Jurrac and Evol. Who both can't make first turn Laggia, might be possible, but probably not. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  12:56, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

I've been thinking about this too...

Forbidden I've always found Brio to be too OP in too many decks, but no one uses Synchros anymore so it's unlikely. Future Fusion is asking for a ban even though I disagree. Many dragon decks even opt not to run it.
 * Brionac, Dragon of the Ice Barrier
 * Future Fusion

Limited Rabbit, one or both of the Inzektors, and something in Wind-Ups need to get banned, but I don't see it happening until March. REDMD could get hit but I'm iffy on that one. Though Hieratics are crazy in OCG and this prevents the Gustav Max play. Hitting Atum would do the same so many this or REDMD.
 * Rescue Rabbit
 * Grapha/Snoww, probably Snoww
 * Inzektor Hornet/Dragonfly
 * Zenmaity/Hunter/Anything (not too familiar with Wind-Ups)
 * REDMD
 * Atum

Semi-Limited Agents need their consistency back. And Tour guide will still be crazy powerful, but putting it to two will make it a tiny bit less splashable. Unless people go with Tour Bus instead. And if nothing else, TGU will be drawn less. Maybe March though. Maybe Lonefire can come back with Spore/Glow-Up Forbidden?
 * Agent Earth
 * Tour Guide
 * Lonefire Blossom

Unlimited Burn/Stall decks using most of these cards are too slow. Chain Burn decks won't need 3 Marshmallon or Magic Cylinder. There are more threatening stall cards than Swords of Revealing Light. And there are more threatening loops than D Hero Malicious now. And hell, I'd like a return of Synchro loops. Djjomon (talk • contribs) 13:50, June 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * Marshmallon
 * Level Limit - Area B
 * Destiny Hero - Malicious
 * Swords of Revealing Light
 * Magic Cylinder

I totally agree about "Brionac" being forbidden. It's just way too strong. But after all, is isn't that good while skill drain is on the field (81.109.138.212 (talk) 14:11, July 7, 2012 (UTC))


 * Brionac, is kinda balanced now. I mean Zombies are/were able to kinda abuse him, but he's kinda balanced. Discard 1 card, and bounce 1 card. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  14:20, July 7, 2012 (UTC)

Meh.....
BANHAMMA:
 * Hornet - let Inzektors have there derpy spamming, as long as they're not blowing my crap up too.
 * Hunter - same as Hornet
 * Sangan - hurt Tour Guide by getting rid of the splashable target
 * BLS NO JUST KIDDING IT'S FAIR AT 1!

RIMITEDDO:
 * DMoC - not broken anymore
 * TER - not broken anymore
 * Tribe Infecting Virus - not even half good anymore
 * Rescue Rabbit - this card is wacky
 * Atum - no more OTKs for Hieratics
 * Light Pulsar - because REDMD isn't the problem
 * Super Poly - because HEROs shouldn't be able to get around any monster for just a -1.
 * Hieratic Seal of Convocation - because consistency. Opening up with 2 means you can make any play you want really.

SAMMY RIMITEDDO:
 * The Transmigration Prophecy - not really a great card anymore.
 * Miracle Fusion - HEROs are too sacky with this at 3. Plus, players will sit there and hoard them to get around Warnings.

BACK AT TRES:
 * Marshmallon - no one cares about stall anymore
 * Magic Cylinder - only bad burn decks use this
 * Reborn Tengu - because it wasn't even a threat anymore when it was hit. It was relly just a show hit to give us the impression that Konami cares about the TCG.

--> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 20:20, June 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * I agree with some of those, excepting Tribe-Infecting Virus, Sangan, Reborn Tengu, and Miracle Fusion/Super Polymerization. Also, Hornet shouldn't be banned just yet, it would be better to limit Hornet and Dragonfly. I notice a lot of people want Future Fusion to be hit because of Dragons, but why not just ban Five-Headed Dragon? I know there are other powerful Future Fusion combos, but none that are doing well in the current meta excepting Dragons. 108.196.206.15 (talk) 21:21, June 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * /shrug Likely because Future Fusion makes his Summoning process a lot faster, and banning that (as opposed to FGD) would likely cripple the deck much worse. Lord Grammaticus (talk • contribs) 21:26, June 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * Plus, Future Fusion helps other decks too, it's better to just kill Future, you end up hurting other OTK-type decks that revolve around Chimeratech Overdragon and such. Not like people really use Fusion decks, the only major one is HERO, but they have Miracle and Super Poly, makes more sense to get rid of the card that really is like Painful Choice (Banned), if you think about it. But that's my thought to it. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  21:49, June 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * Hornet to 1 and Dragonfly to 1 makes the deck nearly unplayable. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 21:54, June 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * If Hornet left, I could be alright with 3 Dragonfly, unless we all end up hating the Rank 3/5 Spam, but seeing as regular non-looping Wind-Ups can already do that, I'm cool with it. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  22:06, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

Yes I do know it's a big list, this is everything that I could see being hit/unhit, I may have missed a few though. Banned:  Limited:  Semi-Limited:  Unlimited:  You may have noticed how I didn't mention Wind-Ups, that's because it doesn't top for crap, yes it's annoying but so are Lightsworn but they aren't likely to get hit (unless it's for Chaos Dragons). 144.131.206.115 (talk) 06:50, June 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * BLS (MAYBE, decks that use it aren't topping for shit).
 * Future Fusion (Way way way too good first turn).
 * Laggia (MAYBE, a very very big maybe since in OCG Rabbit decks aren't doing shit).
 * Gaia Dragon, the Thunder Charger (a big part of the Hieratic OTK).
 * Inzektor Sword - Zektkaliber (enables the Inzektor OTK)
 * Wind-Up Zenmaines (ever versed two on the field at once? It's a bitch).
 * Book of Moon (it sees very little play, maybe with two people would run it more).
 * TGU (ONLY if OCG are getting it soon).
 * The Agent of Mystery - Earth (this was way too harsh a hit for Agents).
 * T.G. Striker (same as above, maybe not though it is a special summon floating tuner).
 * Master Hyperion (if agents get a boost this'd be needed).
 * Rabbit (Same as Laggia, it's not very likely, it'd only happen if either A, OCG are getting TGU soon, or B, OCG take note of the fact it's topping so consistently in TCG, before you ask I don't play Rabbit).
 * Elemental HERO Neos Alius AND/OR E - Emergency Call (Heros are topping a bit over in OCG from what I hear).
 * Asceticism of the Six Samurai (Asceticism Six Sam decks are popular in OCGland)
 * REDMD (Big in Chaos Dragons, big in Hieratics (although they aren't needed inhand)).
 * Light-Pulsar (pretty much Chaos Sorc with more atk, more revival and a much more annoying effect).
 * Atum (As I said before, Hieratics are big in OCGland).
 * Inzektor Hornet + Inzektor Dragonfly (hit the consistency a bit. A limit to Hornet or Dragonfly would be too much).
 * Rekindling and/or Laval Volcano Handmaiden (very big for Laval decks which top consistently in OCG).
 * Dragged Down into the Grave (not likely but it's a VERY good card in DW, this is more a personal thing though, I find it's kind of unfair to be able to plus while seeing your opponents hand and discarding a card of your choice, it's why Trap Dustshoot was banned).
 * Pot of Duality and/or Cardcar D (when they're run in 3s in almost every deck you know there's something wrong).
 * Spore and GUB (we can hope, since the meta sped up a bit maybe plants would be a bit fairer).
 * Tengu (I haven't seen a single deck that's used this since the semi, and it's not that amazing outside of synchroing, and why'd they even hit it when TGU was a thing?).


 * In terms of hitting Hieratics, I think that Hieratic Dragon King of Atum and Hieratic Seal of Convocation should be limited; in which case Gaia Dragon, the Thunder Charger might as well be left Unlimited. 108.196.206.15 (talk) 11:38, June 9, 2012 (UTC)


 * I doubt Wind-Up Zenmaines will be hit, actually, I see a lot in your list that I don't agree with. REDMD is used at 2 in Chaos Dragon and maybe at 2/3 in the Hieratic OTK, so a Semi on him is useless. But it would be easier to hit the cards that enable OTK plays, so Konami will probably add like maybe 4-5 cards to the list, and maybe change the positions of others. Also, the Plants are probably not coming back, still too many plays left to them, plus they are free, no-cost tuners that can be revived whenever you want, which isn't fair, no matter how you justify it, Plaguespreader Zombie is probably the limit to what a reusable tuner should do, since it has a cost. Plus, you want Tengu AND the Plant tuners back? Yeah, not happening. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  12:53, June 9, 2012 (UTC)

I doubt that Reborn Tengu will be back to unlimited in the near future, especially if the Plant tuners return (I'm actually thinking that there's a decent chance of Spore returning). That thing's like Destiny HERO - Malicious, except even worse. 108.196.206.15 (talk) 16:39, June 9, 2012 (UTC)

Mali was used in Tele DaD, tengu in Plants. And I was just saying since the meta's so fast now, easily plusing multiple times a turn (Inzektors, Rabbit, etc), the fact they wouldn't plus the hardest might be enough to be brought back. Oh, and my Spore/GUB thing was an "I wish", I do doubt it'll happen and I still think Tengu should be brought back even if Spore/GUB aren't. I doubt many decks would even run him. Sure he's a great floater but what else can you use him for (other than boosting the current sychro decks and stalling)? 144.131.206.115 (talk) 01:44, June 10, 2012 (UTC)


 * Still don't think TeleDAD will be back to where it once was, because the point of this banlist is to probably slow down Inzkektors and Rabbit, so bringing back TeleDAD, even is it just Mali, isn't the best idea, plus, Emergency Teleport is at 2. Even if Tele isn't back to it's old power and speed, still pretty dangerous Synchro stuff. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  12:49, June 10, 2012 (UTC)


 * Mali going to 3 wouldn't make a huge difference for Tele-DAD. It would make it more consistent and usable, but we wouldn't see it topping any YCS's. And after Konami put JD at 3 and Lumina at 2 I'm expecting to see them bringing some other potentially powerful decks off the banlist. Djjomon (talk • contribs) 14:04, June 10, 2012 (UTC)

AS I said earlier, I'm okay with FF/FHD being banned because I use Lightsworns more. Also, just limit Atum, instant stop for the OTK. Zenmaines I would LIKE to be hit, but probably will not, even though it is in the OCG. Right now it seems Chaos, Hieratics, and Inzectors will be the big ones hit. Wind-Ups may get Hunter banned, who knows. From my research RR hasn't been doing so hot, and I doubt that D and Duality will be hit. Jamesfury (talk • contribs) 05:15, June 11, 2012 (UTC)

--Tupac1971ful (talk • contribs) 08:57, June 14, 2012 (UTC) well as most said inzektors/rabbits/wind-ups/hieratics/chaos dragons/dark world need to be hit. dragonfly/hornet limited,rescue rabbit semi-limited,hunter limited or banned?,atumn limiterd,future fusion and RED-eyes limited and snow/grapha limited (snow problably)..but except of those there are decks that need a little push like blackwings they are too slow nowadays many cards hitted and cant stand the meta in their current state,than lonefire and debris can be at 2 as well as mezuki or Agent of mystery - earth, (zombies even with their swarming they dobnt see play)..the help lightsworns a lot so maybe lumina at 3? but possibly not..

--Tupac1971ful (talk • contribs) 08:59, June 14, 2012 (UTC) i mean future fusion banned (this card is not only OP in dragons but its too broken for other reasons too! ) and REDMD gets to be limited.


 * Why do people want Dark World hit? They aren't even topping heavily, they are big and consistant, and they pop a card here and there, but they're that good as to need a hit. Just feels like people are hating on Grapha. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  12:36, June 15, 2012 (UTC)

I dont think tele dad can make of a comeback ,because crush card virus, dimnensional fusion and dark magician of chaos are all banned.

matthew.lightbody@talktalk.net (talk • contribs) 18:04, June 15, 2012 (UTC)

I personally think if you want to hit Chaos Dragon, ban Five headed dragon and not future fusion. Five headed dragon is the reason why chaos dragon are able to dump so many dragons into the grave, if five headed dragon is gone, then they can't use future fusion to dump so many dragons, making future fusion almost pointless in that deck. Also decks that revolve around future fusion, like the chimeratech OTK don't even top in todays meta, chaos dragon is the only good deck that uses future fusion, and the only reason it works is due to five headed dragon, so really, there's almost no reason to ban future fusion and hurt a lot of decks that need it, when you can just ban five headed dragon and hurt only 1 deck (chaos dragon). Also, I think Inzektor hornet and dragonfly should be limited, as they are the main driving force behind the inzektor engine or if you don't want to limit dragonfly, ban hornet, and atum should be limited to 1, to stop the hieratic otk. Wind-up Hunter I hope gets banned, or zenmaighty gets limited, but I doubt it. Neos01 (talk • contribs) 19:19, June 15, 2012 (UTC)

I've noticed some of you guys look to be straight up killing archetypes. I mean, as the previous guy said he wants Dragonfly AND Hornet Limited or Hornet BANNED. I mean jeeze, that's a little more than a hit, that'd completely kill the archetype, Ladybug is only run as a substitution Hornet, it isn't very good, and there's no substitution Dragonfly. I mean, why would you want to kill an archetype and not just hinder it so it's no longer as dominant? I personally don't think FHD would get banned is FF has already been hit down to a limit, it'd be more likely for a card to get banned from a limit than from 3. And is this time going to be exactly the same as last time where noone realizes TCG only cards exist and the meta in TCG and OCG are completely different? Because that got annoying after a few minutes of "TGU NEEDS A LIMIT!"(although if it was an OCG card I would agree to a semi, but they don't have it so why should they care). 144.131.206.115 (talk) 01:36, June 17, 2012 (UTC)


 * Inzektors won't be dead without Hornet. They just have to rely on the other Inzektors, like Ladybug and whatnot, and make Rank 5/6 Summons. But doing anything other a straight-out ban on Hornet, or a limit on Dragonfly and Hornet, won't help. Even if you limit Hornet, cards like Armageddon Knight exist, that is only 1 card, but if Hornet gets limited, people might just slot 2 of him in, that combined with stuff like Summoner Monk...it's going to be annoying, and means that Hornet will still wind up in the grave, probably every duel. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  01:30, June 18, 2012 (UTC)


 * So Agents (I'm talking pure agents which were definitely playable) are meant to be playable since they only had 1 limit?(Also note how the search card was hit and not the cards that do anything).
 * You're suggesting Inzektors should have a straight up ban on their main monster (hornet) or a limit to both their main monster and their main Xyz monster (where a side deck would kill them very easily)?
 * Oh and Ladybug only does rank 4/5's, and if you only have a Centi out (which would be common with a limited Dragonfly) it does absolutely nothing. You get to boost the level of 1 monster for no apparent reason (don't say Monster Reborn, Inzektor Sword - Zektkaliber, Inzektor Giga-Mantis, etc because not only would that require an extra card just for a rank 3/4/5 but for the 2 Inzektor cards they need to be popped).
 * You can't honestly tell me that a limit to both wouldn't kill the deck. And outright banning hornet would most likely do the same, rank 5's suck and there are better rank 4 spam decks.
 * 144.131.206.115 (talk) 05:28, June 18, 2012 (UTC)


 * Even if hornet is banned, if you keep the other inzektors unlimited the deck will still be fine. If you replace Ladybug with hornet in the inzektor combo, you can summon Xyz monsters losing no advantage. And 1 hornet and 1 dragonfly is all that is needed to start the combo, so even if 1 hornet or dragonfly exists, so will the combo. Rank 5's don't suck, Tiras can't be destroyed by card effects and can destroy a card each time it battles, Exa-Stag can steal an opponents monster and increase its ATK and Zenmaioh can destroy 2 facedowns, those don't suck, and there're tons of Rank 4's that can be used, and don't forget you can still use Rank 3's. So yeah, even if hornet is gone, inzektors are still very playable. 90.201.114.147 (talk) 09:00, June 18, 2012 (UTC)


 * As I said before, they start with Centi (50% chance to have a Centi and not a Dragonfly), yep that Ladybug sure did a lot of good.
 * Let's say they get Tyras out. Oh look at that, a little Chaos Dragon deck (a very common deck) where they can attack over it quite easily.
 * Rabbit no longer has a problem with the deck as they don't have to worry about Reborn reviving whatever to re-pop everything making Laggia/Dolkka useless.
 * Hieratics would quite easily attack over it.
 * Lavals (which should be in TCG by the time the banlist hits if I'm not mistaken) can attack over it so easily it isn't funny.
 * Don't even TRY to say Exa-Stag is good, it's 800 attack that can take 1 monster and gain half its attack. So if we say 2500 attack as the average 800 + 2500/2 = 2050, if you manage to protect it 2 turns and equip a 2500 attacker for each, then it's 3300. OR you know, Adreus, Keeper of Armageddon 2600 attack that gets rid of one face up monster, the only situation I can see Exa-Stag being better is against Light Pulsar Dragon or Elemental HERO Absolute Zero where it wont activate their effects due to them never leaving the field.
 * And if you want rank 4s, what the hell are you using Inzektors for? There are plenty of archetypes that do it much faster, easier and better. The fact they can also do rank 3s and 5s doesn't make much of a difference.
 * But seriously, compared to pop 2 a rank 5 is nothing, they aren't doing amazingly in TCG (they are in OCG without a doubt though), so this hit would make it T1.5 or even lower over here.
 * 144.131.206.115 (talk) 10:05, June 18, 2012 (UTC)

I know this is a little off topic, but do any of you think that Glads will get a boost in either the September or March banlist? Personally i think the limit on Bestiari cripples the deck from its true playability potential.--71.169.36.22 (talk) 21:57, June 18, 2012 (UTC)


 * Yeah, but with more than 1 Gladiator Beast Bestiari, both Glads and Gyzarus Spam decks get a boost, Gyzarus spam isn't worth 2 Bestiari. Also to the Inzektor player, what do you do if you can't hit Hornet or Dragonfly? The fact is, the combo exists, the consistency exists, you have to get rid of one, what would you hit? The ban on Agents gets rid of Consistency, the deck isn't competitively playable because of that. Now what do you do so Inzektors become less broken, because the pop 2 a turn for 2/3 turns if you open right, is annoying and unfair, because in the end, the Inzektor guy gets a Rank 3, loses nothing in terms of cards, and the other guy loses 2 cards, and has to kill the Rank 3. Pop 2 is good, no one has said it isn't, but it's also not totally fair, because if I don't have Skill Drain, Effect Veiler, or Macro Cosmos, I can't do much. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  23:33, June 18, 2012 (UTC)

I'm kinda lost when you say that decks that run BLS don't top. Inzektors run BLS and they do very well. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 23:19, June 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * I think he meant decks that are based on him, like Chaos. But BLS in Inzektors isn't the problem in Inzektors. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  00:05, June 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * Actually no, I mean barely any decks that run BLS that aren't chaos dragons top, and if they do run BLS they're just reducing consistency. Inzektors do better without it and if you run BLS in Rabbit you're an idiot.
 * Also @Ace, I don't play Inzektors often because I don't enjoy playing them, I just don't like to see people wanting to kill an archetype because they think it's "OMG SO BROKEN GOTTA KILL NOW!" without looking at the other options.
 * Currently Inzektors have 4 level 3's, Dragonfly, Centi, Hornet and Inzektor Ant.
 * Seeing as Dragonfly enables Xyz (which is a big part of what the deck is meant to be about), you can't hit it too hard.
 * Hornet enables rank 3s and is the only equip they have that isn't completely useless when equipped to a single monster, the others are rather situational (Inzektor Earwig boosts the monster 1000 attack, Inzektor Firefly views all set cards the opponent controls, Inzektor Hopper allows the monster to attack directly while other monsters can't attack, and Inzektor Ladybug boosts 1 face up monsters level by 1-2). The effect is good but hitting it would mean hitting one of the only GOOD equips, not to mention other cards were based around its effect (Giga-Mantis, Giga-Weevil, Zektkaliber) so you can't really hit it too hard.
 * Centi searches and helps the combo repeat while being replaceable (Hornet/Ant, yes Ant's shit). Banning would probably be too big a hit though.
 * After looking over all this, a Centi Limit, Hornet Semi would probably do the trick, or Hornet Semi, Dragonfly Semi with maybe Centi Semi. Hit the consistency a bit instead of killing the main cards in the deck. (Again, with Agents, they hit the searcher and not Hyperion/Venus/Kristya).
 * 144.131.206.115 (talk) 05:04, June 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * People seem to forget that the F&L List isn't meant to destroy decks, but to balance out the game for all players. Inzektors losing their destruction powers or having their looping powers nerfed would do just that. Make them balanced and still competitive, But no longer the deck that caused Shadow-Imprisoning Mirror to go from 10 cents to over 4 dollars. Djjomon (talk • contribs) 05:38, June 20, 2012 (UTC)

inzektors its turn gain a total of +2-3 advatage,its totally unfair..dragonfly is broken its not once per turn and its effect activates for its equiped card to it sent to grave,so as many said the best solution would be to hit consistency of the deck personally i would go 2 dragonfly and 1 hornet..or otherwise as a last resort they can hit this deck too tough and release new support for it less broken thats a way they have been doing for many cards/decks that seemed to be broken (substitoad,DMoC,fishborg blaster etc. or the new blackwing monster instead of kalut giving 500atck boost and not 1400) well the thing is that they have to be nerfed somehow..its annoying having a dominant deck in so many terms better than other common decks but thats the truth for its format --Tupac1971ful (talk • contribs) 07:45, June 20, 2012 (UTC)

Currently Banned Cards
Out of curiosity, are there any currently banned cards that anybody wants back this Banlist? I've noticed that a couple of people want to bring back DMoC, I don't know if that would be good or not. 108.196.206.15 (talk) 20:33, June 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * The ones I heard the most are DmoC, TER, Metamorphosis, Sinister Serpent, Glow-Up Bulb, and Spore. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 20:52, June 20, 2012 (UTC)

Oh yeah, TER... he's not that bad anymore, he should come back. 108.196.206.15 (talk) 21:08, June 20, 2012 (UTC)

from what you said only DmoC stands a change to be unbanned and maybe MOF because she is too slow flip effect..TER!! yes really good idea..use instant fusion to summon him take easy one of your opponents monsters and then use this for syncrho or even tribute summon..wait wait wait its not over yet! use monster reborn/call of the haunted to revive it and reuse this effect abd lock your oppponent..yay! --Tupac1971ful (talk • contribs) 21:19, June 20, 2012 (UTC)

Congratulations, you just thought of a less than consistent combo. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 21:26, June 20, 2012 (UTC)

The sarcasm is strong with that one, the typos were especially endearing... Thousand-Eyes Restrict is definitely not as powerful as he used to be, the best way to use him is Instant Fusion + Monarchs probably. Plus, how could BLS be legal and TER be banned? 108.196.206.15 (talk) 21:40, June 20, 2012 (UTC) EDIT: Why, oh why, would anybody want Metamorphosis back?

Because Metamorphosis isn't broken. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 21:52, June 20, 2012 (UTC)

Not broken? I guess it's arguably less broken than some things, but I still dislike the "Metal Reflect Slime to Naturia Extrio" and "Beast King Barbaros to Cyber Twin Dragon" stuff, amongst others (Fusilier Dragon, the Dual-Mode Beast or Gorz Token to Cyber Ogre 2 or King Dragun, the list goes on and on). 108.196.206.15 (talk) 22:01, June 20, 2012 (UTC) Oh, and Gagaga Magician...

TER might not be as good as he was but he still is really good with instant fusion..personally,he deserves to be banned..as for metamorphosis definetly not! as the previous guy said its broken,tech that in DW's and got for easy cyber twin dragon or instead of metal reflect slime (that nobody uses) u can replace that with commonly played cards like REDMD or tragoedia to go for Naturia Exterio..the only right is "why TER be banned and BLS limited,hes much more broken" but thats obvisously for konami's interest's..and spore and glow wont come back - they are not that broken but there are 2 reasons 1st they are reuseble tuners in general without cost and 2ond they banned them to make XYZ monsters more popolar over synchros --Tupac1971ful (talk • contribs) 09:17, June 21, 2012 (UTC)

I've noticed quite a few people wanted DMoC back, I'm actually thinking that might be plausible, they reprinted it in Epic Dawn, right? 108.196.206.15 (talk) 21:09, June 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * I could see DMoC coming back. Definitely less broken than many cards we have now. It would add support to the new Spellcasters coming out in REDU too. Djjomon (talk • contribs) 21:51, June 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * Ice Queen was supposed to be DMoC's nerfed replacement, plus, they reprinted a lot of older banned cards in Dawn, can't be sure if DMoC will come back based on that alone. More or less plausible than the others, but still. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  00:41, June 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * Plus isn't possible to create the OTK I think, as long as Dimension Fusion stays banned, or is there some other spell card that summons back Banished Monsters, that can be reused by DMoC that same turn? Unless you use Imperial Iron Wall + Monster Reborn (Thankfully no real great way to search this thing out)... -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  00:44, June 22, 2012 (UTC)

I think I heard somewhere that the Imperial Iron Wall/Monster Reborn combo would be the only way to still do the OTK if he got unbanned. The thing is that it's two cards that aren't worth building a deck around searching + DMoC, so it's extremely inconsistent to say the least. 108.196.206.15 (talk) 10:55, June 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * Yeah, no easy way to search Monster Reborn, so not that big a deal, since other OTKs still exist. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  15:20, June 22, 2012 (UTC)

i really want magician of faith back, some decks are just BASED on a spell card. only 3 cards are a big deal with that thing.

i really want magician of faith back, some decks are just BASED on a spell card. only 3 cards are a big deal with that thing.-LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 12:38, June 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * You posted the above comment twice. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  16:19, June 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't think Magician of Faith will even be considered for coming back by many people unless one of Monster Reborn, Dark Hole, and Heavy Storm were to be banned. Even then, it would be better if 2 of those 3 were banned, which will probably not happen. I'd rather have all 3 of those than the Magician. 108.196.206.15 (talk) 12:46, June 25, 2012 (UTC) EDIT - And on flip effects being too slow, Apprentice Magician...


 * Yeah, Magician of Faith doesn't need to come back and make things crazier. Plus, in some regards wouldn't that make the DMoC have a greater chance of not coming back? Faith would allow you to reverse toolbox Monster Reborn, again not that big a deal, considering Reborn is at 1, but still a point. And there is no point of having Faith and Limited Spell cards. -- - Dark Ace SP  ( Talk )  03:11, June 26, 2012 (UTC)


 * All in all, I think that DMoC is harder to splash into any given deck than Magician of Faith, and therefore might stand somewhat more of a chance of returning. We'll see within a couple months if any of this is true though. 108.196.206.15 (talk) 22:26, July 1, 2012 (UTC)

Banlist Prediction #1
FORBIDDEN


 * Future Fusion - Chaos-Dragons, and other decks that uses this should slow down a bit.
 * Reinforcement of the Army - Just a feeling.

LIMITED


 * Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon - They should slow down Chaos-Dragons and Hieroglyphs.


 * Inzektor Hornet - Killing Damsel is like killing the deck. Hornet will slow this down.


 * Mystical Space Typhoon - err, MST is a pain in the a**. That's why it was limited to 1 a long time ago.


 * Giant Trunade - IF, and only IF MST gets it, this MIGHT happen. So please. This is my opinion.


 * Rescue Rabbit - Well, he really is a pain in the a**.


 * Wind-Up Carrier Zenmaity OR Wind-Up Rat - well, either one of them should be hit.


 * Card Trooper - Just a feeling he'll be back up here.

SEMI-LIMITED


 * Effect Veiler - IF, and only IF the above cards on the LIMITED list are hit.

UNLIMITED

(None for now.)

Jampong (talk • contribs) 08:27, July 1, 2012 (UTC)

This is all opinion oriented, your list and other lists, so you can post what you want, but give us the room to also comment on your list. This thread and every other F&L List thread is just a thought board. Anyway, Reinforcement of the Army might not be Forbidden, I mean the only deck that really uses it would be E-HERO, but even then they have E-Call so it wouldn't be that bad. REDMD might be hit at 1, that is a small possibility, but hitting Atum would be better to stop Hieroglyphs. As for Chaos Dragon, hit Lightpulsar Dragon to 2?

I think Konami hates backrow formats. Usually when MST, Trunade, and Heavy are at 1, people start to play heavy trap counts. Not sure why Trooper would be back at 1, I don't think he does anything, except thin the deck, and only Chaos Dragon uses him. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  13:57, July 1, 2012 (UTC)

MST wont go back to the banlist,it was reprited to hybrid rare so konami wants to make money from it but thats not it..even if it is to be limited there is still night beam --Tupac1971ful (talk • contribs) 13:53, July 2, 2012 (UTC)

Personal Predictions
Banned
 * Future Fusion

Limited
 * Red-Eyes Darkness Dragon
 * Snoww, Unlight of Dark World Hit consistency
 * Inzektor Dragonfly Same
 * Wind-Up Carrier Zenmaity They must stop the loop
 * Hieratic Dragon King of Atum Stop OTK

Semi-Limited
 * Rescue Rabbit
 * Blackwing - Kalut the Moon Shadow Blackwings need a push
 * Mezuki Very little chances since Leviair the Sea Dragon is around
 * The Agent of Mystery - Earth
 * Lonefire Blossom GUB and Spore are forbidden,this card doesnt see play at all and can be veilered with the new priority rule change..
 * Rekindling one card wins in the right conditions
 * Black Whirlwind Help Blackwings >.>
 * Miracle Fusion The only card to hit for E-heroes but this is still not much of a need
 * The Transmigration Prophecy Good card but limited is a little too much

Unlimited --Tupac1971ful (talk • contribs) 14:38, July 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * Marshmallon
 * Necro Gardna Lightsworns dont top at all
 * Reborn Tengu I mean,plants arent around this is mainly for syncrho decks and i cant imagine many decks that will run this (T.G stun and Scraps mainly),also PoA is limited so..maybe,it isnt a thread nowadays
 * Level Limit - Area B

I can't agree with the Necro Gardna and Rekindling (Need to full grave for a OTK kinda thing, which is slow, even in Lavals). Blackwings had there chance, let them rest in peace, or just make Kalut Semi, if you really like them. Lightsworns might not be topping, but making Necro Gardna Unlimited is a stupid thing to do, even if Lightsworns don't top, too much protection. Miracle Fusion might be a hit, but maybe the hit should be to E-Call? I personally don't think HERO is a threat. HERO is just too slow compared to Dino-Rabbit and Chaos Dragon.

Also, The Transmigration Prophecy needs to be at 1, otherwise it creates a loop of itself, I mean Pot of Benevolence does the same thing, but Pot of Benevolence can't be chained. Also, this card is part of a stall deck with D.D. Borderline.

Also, no one has yet mentioned stuff like instant win decks (Very Slow, I know that), but Final Countdown and Exodia sucks, Cardcar D gave a huge boost to them. I mean if people have to consider Stealth Bird for the Side Deck, there might be a problem.

-- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  23:08, July 2, 2012 (UTC)

Necro Gardna wont change much at 3..charge is at 1 and lumina at 2 this can be a dead draw many times and for lightsworns it wont change much,when opposed against a Chaos dragon or Rabbit deck what can a Mere LS deck do even with 3 gardnas in the deck? and rekindling can be deadly its not difficult to set your graveyard just 1 Sweltering Heat Transmission Field and with rekindling you can bring Red Nova Dragon or Shooting Quasar Dragon especialy in the late game,gives a large potention at syncrho summoning..and what about Blackings? they had their legacy but arent they dead? shoudlnt konami just make them not top,but competitive again they are too slow and cant stand the meta..Whirlwind and Kalut at 2 should make the difference --Tupac1971ful (talk • contribs) 08:35, July 3, 2012 (UTC)

tupac, both whirlwind AND kalut at 2 will make the deck broken again, if you play them on DN, try the new promotional card as they got some good new cards.but 2 kalut 2whirlwind is just overpushing, just like what konami did to sams.--LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 17:48, July 3, 2012 (UTC)

@LaserGhost you mean Damascus,Gladius and Gram? they are all almost useless..damascus boosts only 500atk,gladius isnt a tuner and Gram cant be used with vayu so which part of them is good? and its obvious (lets say at the current format),2 kalut and 2 whirlwinds won't make such a big change to say Blackwings will be broken,thats for sure.. --Tupac1971ful (talk • contribs) 22:46, July 3, 2012 (UTC)


 * looks like you are not proffesional player, blackwing is not just vayu,these 500 are actually something good and who said that double kalut double whirlwinds wont get them back? whirlwind means easy access to anything double kalut means you rarely win a battle agains a BW.--LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 13:35, July 4, 2012 (UTC)


 * Ghost has a point. I mean Vayu + Shura makes Gram, who can then summon another Shura, or Bora if you use him. And Gladius can be revived with Blizzard, giving you more access to Level 5 Synchros. Personally, I'm alright if either Kault or Whirlwind comes back, but not both, since Kault was limited along with Honest to hit Blackwings and Lightsworns, respectively. But bringing back the "Honest" for Blackwings, AND a card that can search him out? That's when I say wrong. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  14:35, July 4, 2012 (UTC)

Fire Fall's Predictions
I'm going to try and base my thoughts on the criteria that they put up on the Yugioh Article website a while ago. Which were....


 * 1.To prevent a situation where you feel “locked in” – where you HAVE to play with certain cards, or a certain Deck.
 * 2.To keep it so there are choices for what Deck you play. Avoid having 1 dominant Deck.
 * 3.To restrict “solitaire” play Decks. These are usually first-turn-combo Decks where one Duelist plays by themselves for 15 minutes, shuffling and summoning cards while their opponent twiddles his thumbs.
 * 4.To eliminate cards that are confusing, cause games to stall out, create infinite loops, or can otherwise interfere with tournaments and make them unpleasant.

Banned Wind-Up Rat or Wind-Up Hunter - Reasons 1 and 4 - Not only is it a negative play experience for both sides (How many times have you faced a person who ran the loop and heard the line 'I don't usually play the loop.' If people feel they have to justify running the loop then it's a bad experience for them as well.) but also if you want to stand a chance against the loop you're forced to run either Max "C" or Effect Veiler.

REDMD - Reasons 1, 2 and 3- If you play dragons then you play with REDMD no matter what but with all the new dragon support now on offer he's become to powerful, that and he's a key card now one to many OTKs involving dragons.

Limited Inzektor Hornet or Inzektor Dragonfly - Reason 1 - You play Inzektors then you play with the main three Inzektors of Centipede, Hornet and Dragonfly, then build the rest of the deck around them. Limiting Hornet or Dragonfly will not only slow them down (though not by much) but make it so Inzektor players will put something else in their deck and add a bit of variety to it.

E - Emergency Call - Reasons 1 and 2 - Hero Beat has been consistently topping in the OCG for months now, if you head over to Shriek OCG and check out their tournament lists you'll see that Hero Beat is a bigger threat then any of the other decks now. Limiting Emergency Call will slow them down. Then Again there are other ways to do it but something in Hero Beat will be hit.

Semi Limited Rescue Rabbit - Reason 1 - Rabbit isn't as bad as he used to be, with the priority ruling gone you can now successfully hit him with a lot more cards. Still being on three is a bit much, thus he needs a semi.

TGU - Reason 4 - With TGU now widely available she's getting spammed to a lot more decks, she's a card you can put in any deck and get pluses out of her. Which makes her to dangerous to remain at three. She can join Tengu as a TCG exclusive on the banlist.

Unlimited Magic Cylinder - The harm Cylinder could do in today's meta is minimal therefore I see it returning to three. --The FireFALL (talk • contribs) 20:29, July 4, 2012 (UTC)


 * I decided to check out Shriek OCG just to see if there were a ton of HERO decks topping. There were, but the HERO decks I saw looked like they wanted to do nothing but make Blade Armor Ninja, not saying he will be hit, but a simple hit to their consistency should be enough, I think Miracle can stay at 3. Also, REDMD isn't that bad, only Lightpulsar makes him seem broken, as people don't have to go through his cost or anything like that. As for his OTK stuff, that's mostly in Hieratic (Chaos Dragon does it too, but I wouldn't blame that solely on REDMD, Lightpulsar has an effect too...), which REDMD is a part of, but for that loop you need 2-3 Atum, so isn't it better to limit Atum to 1? -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  01:29, July 5, 2012 (UTC)


 * As for Rule 3, why not do something to stuff like Final Countdown or other instant win decks, they aren't consistent, but they're no fun to play against. Cardcar D made those decks even faster. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  01:38, July 5, 2012 (UTC)


 * What list are you looking at on Shriek? I only found the list of tournaments (which I don't completely trust because it lists locals too.) I've been wanting to keep up on OCG decks. Djjomon (talk • contribs) 01:39, July 5, 2012 (UTC)

Final Countdown is currently the only big stalling deck which is topping and even then it's only won one regional. Then again that's not to say it isn't being watched, as another article on the Yugioh website had suggestions on what to side if you hit FC. Night Shot and Eradicator Epidemic Virus if you were wondering kills the deck :P.

As for the tournaments on Shriek, they're trustworthy. It is Shriek after all. I'll admit though the one piece of info missing is just how many decks of each are run in the tournament but aside from that it does show an accurate look at the OCG metagame. Also if you only want to take the big tournaments seriously then just look at everything with 'Championship' in it's name. Though i'll save you some time, the current meta decks in order of what tops the most is Inzektor, Hero Beat\Alive Hero, Verz Rabbit, Heiroglyth\Heiroglyth Ritual, Gadget Offering Machina and Lavals (though Lavals have decreased in the past few months).--82.43.41.152 (talk) 01:55, July 5, 2012 (UTC)


 * Ok, not too far off from what I expected, thank you. Djjomon (talk • contribs) 03:19, July 5, 2012 (UTC)

Just a little note to people who hate wind-ups so much: To stop the loop, just limit zenmaity,hitting rat is devestating the deck that is supposed to be fun and if you notice, konami doesn't ban anything unless it generates unfair advantage mostly by itself that means hunter won't be banned.Unlike hornet because hornet simply's limit won't do anything. Also, if we compare the amount of cards hunter needs to the amount of cards hornet needs it will become obvious.--LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 12:20, July 5, 2012 (UTC)

BTH the real problem with the Wind-Ups is Wind-Up Shark. A lot of the time the loop is started because of one Shark. He's not in the OCG, hence why they're not topping over there but I digress. I've been looking over the info for the TCG championships that have happened recently, though I could only find the ones held in America and South America and the results pretty much show one thing. Dino Rabbits will be hit. They've pretty much dominated most of the tournaments with quite a few of them ending in Rabbit Mirror matches. So I'm going to change my view of Semi Limiting the Rabbit. Now that Rabbit needs to be either limited or banned.--The FireFALL (talk • contribs) 15:55, July 5, 2012 (UTC)


 * How many of those tops were before the priority change? -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  18:49, July 5, 2012 (UTC)

just a thought
Banned


 * Future Fusion:Obvious. Chaos Dragons are VERY big and this card is a game winner in many other decks
 * Hornet:well, hitting dragonfly is killing all the deck, limiting this will just make them use more cards to dump/search this, if this is banned they will just be a Rank 5 spam deck
 * Brionac:maybe yes and maybe no.this is a game winner by himself.

Limited


 * REDMD:this thing defines the Word "Broken".A hit to Chaos Dragons and Hieratics.
 * Rabbit:Well, banning it would kill the only decent support of normal monsters. Dino rabbits are hard to hit so this is meh.
 * Atum:the triple atum hieratic loop needs 3 atum
 * Zenmaity:I really dont want that to happen but if you insist on hitting wind-ups...

Semi-Limited
 * Messenger of Peace:this card is better these days because xyz monsters are affected. also the cost is a joke.
 * Miracle Fusion:that is IF you want HEROes hit.

Unlimited
 * Tragoedia:Seriously who runs that these days? and still, who would run it in 3?
 * Magic Cylinder:Besides burn,this card is as dead as negate attack.

that was my thoughts on a list --LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 14:31, July 2, 2012 (UTC)

ok i might be a little arrogant and selfish because im a blackwing player and i really like them..seriously if kalut or whirlwind (im not speking for both) wont come back thats a real problem cause blackwings now just suck,too slow..kalut and honest are really too different as kalut gives the boost of 1400 and its only for blackwings but honest has high defense to get beaten from a lvl4 or lower monster,it can get itself from the field back to the hand so this gives so many combos,your monster will gain your opponents monster atck so this means you almost win ANY battle and above all he is a universal light staple card! theres no deck with the light attribute not running honest.. so my thought is that those 2 cards have big differences and stop saying kalut is like honest..just saying --Tupac1971ful (talk • contribs) 21:55, July 5, 2012 (UTC)

Blackwings could get a boost but don't entirely need it. They're still quite threatening, just not broken like you want them. Kalut OR Whirlwind to 2 would be helpful in different situations, both would be a bit too powerful. (So while we're at it, give Gravekeeper's Royal Oppression back.) Rabbit needs to get hit, it's way over-powered. And better yet, Dino Rabbit isn't even an archetype. Evolzars were made for Evols, so they'll still see play (Evols are a highly underrated deck as well.)Djjomon (talk • contribs) 22:59, July 5, 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't think anyone even expects the Evolzars to be hit, hitting Rabbit makes more sense, if they still survive and people want to play them, Laggia and Dolkka can still be made, but it would take more time to make them. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  00:44, July 6, 2012 (UTC)

Just my thoughts
Banned Limited Semi-Limited Unlimited Everything Ace said Thoughts anyone? Ja1lbreakr0cks (talk • contribs) 20:03, July 6, 2012 (UTC)
 * Inzektor Hornet
 * Wind-Up Hunter
 * Rescue Rabbit
 * Wind-Up Carrier Zenmaity
 * (maybe)Glow-Up Bulb
 * (maybe)Spore
 * (maybe)Glow-Up Bulb
 * (maybe)Spore
 * (at the least)Wind-Up Carrier Zenmaity
 * (maybe)Wind-Up Rat
 * (maybe)The Agent of Mystery - Earth
 * (possibly)Master Hyperion
 * (maybe)Mist Wurm
 * Level Limit - Area B
 * Marshmallon
 * (maybe)Lumina, Lightsworn Summoner

I don't know if Carrier needs to be limited if Hunter is banned, I mean Wind-Ups were made to Xyz various Levels, and Zenmaity helps with that goal. I really don't think Spore or Glow-Up will come back (Based on this article over on the KSS. Also, I'm not sure Hyperion needs a hit, he's not that searchable, plus I think Venus and the Gachi Spam was the issue, I think Hyperion is safe at 3. But if Venus does come back to 2, what would that do to the OCG?

What makes Mist Wurm need a hit? He's not really played, and even if Spore or Glow did somehow come back, most people would use maybe just 1 Wurm, if at all. And no way in hell is Lumina going to 3. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  21:21, July 6, 2012 (UTC)

Xerdek's Predicion
Forbidden Limited Semi-Limited Unlimited Analysis: I'm trying to be as realistic as possible. Obviously, Konami never gives us what we want. As so, I tried not to be so "punishing". Xerdek! 18:46, July 7, 2012 (UTC)
 * Future Fusion
 * Inzektor Hornet
 * Wind-Up Hunter
 * Spore
 * Wall of Revealing Light
 * The Agent of Mystery - Earth
 * Tour Guide From the Underworld
 * Grapha, Dragon Lord of Dark World
 * Marshmallon
 * Reborn Tengu
 * Level Limit - Area B

Sorry Sir, but you obviously know nothing about the meta.Limiting Hunter Does nothing as Wind-ups already use only 1.Inzektors can Use Armageddon Knight so only 1 Hornet won't be a problem. and no, don't try to revive dead decks (agents,Plants).You Didn't mention Hieratics or Dino Rabbits. Chaos Dragons can play very Well without Future Fusion so Lightpulsar and REDMD both need a hit.wall is painful because it affects XYZ monsters.--LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 07:42, July 7, 2012 (UTC)

Actually, I know a lot about the Meta. I'm just making the kind of stupid predictions that Konami would make that alters things slightly. One more thing! Use better grammar. XD Xerdek! 18:46, July 7, 2012 (UTC)

Well, Konami isn't stupid, true their lists sometimes seem frustrating to us but let's face it, they know how to kill decks properly--LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 20:42, July 7, 2012 (UTC)

Nauske Confirmed
From what he told in GameFAQs (with no source...)

Banned:
 * Dark Armed Dragon
 * Future Fusion

Limited:
 * Grapha, Dragon Lord of Dark World
 * Hieratic Dragon of Tefnuit
 * Inzektor Centipede
 * Rescue Rabbit
 * Constellar Ptolemys Messier 7
 * Evolzar Laggia
 * Wind-Up Zenmaighty

Semi-Limited
 * Inzektor Hornet
 * Tour Guide from the Underworld
 * Book of Moon
 * Mystical Space Typhoon
 * Mirror Force
 * Skill Drain

Unlimited
 * Scapegoat

His topic:

-- i  F  r  e  d  C  a  t  13:29, July 7, 2012 (UTC)


 * What would make them not even try to hit Lightpulsar and REDMD? I don't think DAD did that much, it was easy to summon, but only because Lightpulsar banished stuff from the grave. Also, is there a point to M7 being hit? It's easy to summon, but you can't use it's effect if you summon it using a Xyz Monster as a material. Also, is there a point to hitting Skill Drain? I know the card sucks when used against you, but it's used mostly in stuff like Anti-Meta decks, which don't always top. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  13:40, July 7, 2012 (UTC)


 * That's why I asked him for a source of why he think of that. -- i  F  r  e  d  C  a  t  13:41, July 7, 2012 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I was about to add that there was no source, but we had a editing conflict, xD. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  13:42, July 7, 2012 (UTC)


 * It was you who got an edit conflict - I posted quicker, but no worry. And I had a feeling about Rescue Rabbit being limited from the start once I laid my finger on the real exist card of him - ever played a deck with only one copy included and I would guess it right. -- i  F  r  e  d  C  a  t  13:44, July 7, 2012 (UTC)

And we are expected to belive this list? Not a chance sir.--LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 13:50, July 7, 2012 (UTC)


 * That's why I wish to get him to confirm the source first. You can see it at bottom of the topic I posted in here. (His topic: [1]) -- i  F  r  e  d  C  a  t  13:57, July 7, 2012 (UTC)

I already saw it. Looks horrible, and still the users talk as its real.--LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 14:33, July 7, 2012 (UTC)


 * One user "CM1772PF" told me off that I should know better than this. Where's his goddamn manner? -- i  F  r  e  d  C  a  t  15:09, July 7, 2012 (UTC)


 * Lol, i saw his comment. he is kinda retarded.--LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 15:30, July 7, 2012 (UTC)


 * I got your back there Fred. Just posted under my old GameFAQs alias sano10001. Djjomon (talk • contribs) 16:11, July 7, 2012 (UTC)


 * You really should know better than this, Fred. It is not an official list, it was a suggested list created by Nauske to garnish discussion. He makes them often. --Golden Key (talk • contribs) 17:26, July 10, 2012 (UTC)

WCQ Results
Just found out that Wind-Ups took first place in both the American and European WCQs. Chaos dragons took 3rd-4th in America. This makes me think Wind-Ups will be hit hard in September. Djjomon (talk • contribs) 04:27, July 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * they had it coming.--LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 10:38, July 11, 2012 (UTC)


 * Maybe they will, or maybe people just weren't really prepared for them, and forgot they still exist. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  21:23, July 11, 2012 (UTC)


 * You give Konami too much credit. They see this deck win 2 WCQs they'll go March 2012 plants on Wind-Ups as-... keys... (Though I have been meaning to read that article, despite it just being released today.) Djjomon (talk • contribs) 05:00, July 12, 2012 (UTC)

Hieratic
I just Hope that Konami doesn't screw Hieratic players over. the OTK can be stopped without harming hieratics bad by more than 1 way, either limiting REDMD or limiting Atum or both. because Hieratics really CAN be a good deck with the Level 8 version or a Stun deck using photon streak bounzer.--LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 20:09, July 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * They probably will just hit either REDMD/Atum, I doubt they would hit more than that, unless it becomes an issue later. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  22:48, July 12, 2012 (UTC)

Things that can go Down the list?
I think that 141 has a good chance to go into 2. spore,substitoad,glow-up bulb and mind master are all banned now. this can go back to 2 to assist small decks like fortune ladies, morphtronics, infernities and piper based decks.--LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 08:34, July 13, 2012 (UTC)


 * Maybe, but we still have Mystic Piper? -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  14:43, July 13, 2012 (UTC)

Meh, piper is not dangerous. Piper chaos is not competetive anyways and it would be fun to see some of those topping. LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 15:28, July 13, 2012 (UTC)


 * Piper Chaos took 4th in a YCS... Djjomon (talk • contribs) 16:26, July 13, 2012 (UTC)

Sept 1, 2012 banlist predictions

 * Black luster solider solider envoy of the beginning~ should be banned too broken. It wins games by itself.
 * Mind control ~ Banned. With xyz monsters out, players have a lot of options.
 * Sangan~ Banned. Players can search out anything including tour guide from the underworld.
 * Wind up hunter~ Banned. Players abuse this card to perform hand loops prevent their opponent from retaliating.
 * Dark hole~ Banned. Obvious reason.
 * Evolsaur laggia~ limited. This is a solemn on legs. Next turn it spells game very quickly. Players set as much backrow as they want without any worries.
 * Inzektor dragonfly~ limited. Too broken. Keeps the inzektor loop going.
 * Pot of avarice~ Banned. Wind ups can still loop repeatedly with this card.
 * Snoww, unlight of dark world~ semi limit
 * gates of dark world~ limit. Too broken adds a lot of draw power.
 * Future fusion~ Banned. Sets up plays for otk's. Also abused in hero decks.
 * Monster reborn~ Banned. obviously too broken.
 * Wind up carrier zenmaity~ semi limited. Players spam this card to repeatedly perform the wind up hand up.
 * Wind up carrier zenmaines ~ semi limited.This card is a little broken.
 * Agent of mystery earth~ unlimited. Players will run 1 copy anyway because of 2 to 3 effect veilers used in top tier decks.
 * T.G striker ~ unlimited. No t.gs are broken.
 * Brionac dragon of the ice barrier ~ Banned. This card is abused in infernity, dark world, and fables perform otk's. Still too broken. Has too many loops. This card benefits in many decks like blackwing gale the whirlwind.
 * Tour guide of the underworld ~ limited. 3 is too broken. Sets up plays for broken rank 3 xyz monsters.
 * Goyo guardian ~ limited. This card is not that good anymore. Konami want to promote xyz monsters. This sets up plays for xyz summons.
 * Rescue rabbit ~ semi limited.
 * Red eyes darkness metal dragon ~ limited. Players abuse this card by destroying light pulsar dragon to get REDMD back to their hands.
 * Light pulsar dragon ~ semi limit. Players loop with this card to get level 5 dark monsters.
 * Inzektor hornet ~ semi limit.
 * Miracle fusion ~ limit. Royal oppression ~ limited.
 * Skill drain ~ limited.
 * Inzektor exa beetle ~ limited.


 * A lot of what you want to do makes no sense to us. We like Dark Hole and Monster Reborn, people will run 3 Earth, not 1, because guess what, they have a better chance of drawing it at 3 than at 1, same for Striker! Tour Guide at 1 dose almost nothing, and becomes too situation, semi is better. Goyo guardian is still pretty bad, it has a high ATK for a quick Level 6 Synchro, which is pretty easy to do if Striker and Earth are unlimited! Brionac, is a 1-1 kinda of card, not to mention it has fairly weak ATK. Oppression will probably never come back, as it's too broken, small cost for game-breaking negations. Exa-Beetle is kinda random, it doesn't really have an effect on the game. Why limit Skill Drain? It's an Anti-Meta card, and Anti-Meta doesn't really win YCS. Laggia doesn't need a hit, as the only deck that rapidly summons it are Dino-Rabbit, Evols and Jurrac take time to summon him, in which case you can prepare to stop him. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  19:45, July 13, 2012 (UTC)

Well for me TGU should just go to 1..maybe thats situational but it goes directly for rank 3, gives you pluses and its goes almost to EVERY deck,its just a thought since this card was devstating for the previous format and this one too since all top Meta decks were using this (excluding inzektors but that wasnt a need since they could go for rank 3 so easily) the truth is that even at 2 isnt that bad but i have to hate this card -.- --Tupac1971ful (talk • contribs) 21:20, July 13, 2012 (UTC)


 * Tour Guide to one means it will only be played in Fiend decks, no one would run it just to search Sangan alone. They wouldn't even use it with Tour Bus, because what if they drew Bus first? 2 Is balanced I think. Then using it to search Sangan leaves a useless one in the deck, unless you can get the first one back into the deck. So it would search itself for a rank 3 and that's it. It would definitely see less play.


 * Goyo I could see coming back as synchros decline. But it's no guarantee.


 * Skill Drain, though, IS used for YCS. Remember when HEROs topped? They used 2 Skill Drains to put even more pressure on the opponent, without losing their Gemini Spark, Miracle Fusion, or Super Poly Support. Skill Drain also let Dark Worlds win. Djjomon (talk • contribs) 21:52, July 13, 2012 (UTC)

Very bad list. You basicly want the t.g. Agent format back. Brio can't be used with dark world. Exa beatle doesn't see any play. Also, If you ban hunter you leave zenmaity. Zenmaines is OK as nobody Gets 2 anyways. Laggia limit doesn't do anything to dino rabbit. Avarice is good at 1. Dark hole and reborn are good where they are. Future fusion isn't enough to hit chaos dragons. LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 22:30, July 13, 2012 (UTC)


 * Well, on Skill Drain, yeah it is an issue, but I'm saying not used in HERO, if the issue is with HERO, hit HERO, I think hitting Skill Drain is unfair, although maybe it could go to 2, 1 is really unfair. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  22:44, July 13, 2012 (UTC)

Moja619's Predictions
Banned

Brionac, Dragon of the Ice Barrier some people believe it's too broken, and they may be right

Sangan i really believe its time has come, it's just too broken, especially since the release of Tour Guide from the Underworld

Heavy Storm we already have MST, Dust Tornado and Malevolent Catastrophe, and we just received Storm and Night Beam, that's enough spell/trap destruction

Mind Control can easily lead to a synchro or xyz summon when used at the right time

Inzektor Hornet inzektors are very powerful even with just one hornet, so...

Five-Headed Dragon people say "ban Future Fusion", but FF is needed to boost lower tier decks like Heroes, Gem-Knights or Worms, so ban this card instead

Wind-Up Hunter no more Wind-up Loop

Limited

Shien's Smoke Signal why was this card semi'd again?

Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon easily special summoned, can summon a dragon each turn, is an important part of the Hieratic OTK

Miracle Fusion if Heroes get hit, this card might be the victim

Semi-Limited

T.G. Striker or The Agent of Mystery - Earth i think T.G. Agents were hit too hard, semi-limiting one of these two should help enough

Rescue Rabbit if Sangan is banned, this could be semi'd, otherwise this should be limited

Snoww, Unlight of Dark World i feel that Dark Worlds should be hit a little

Unlimited

Spore not as splashable as Glow-Up Bulb, and Synchrocentric Decks are now weaker with Trishula gone and Tengu semi'd

Level Limit - Area B Gravity Bind is unlimited, this could follow

Your thoughts? --Moja619 (talk • contribs) 03:02, July 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * Highly unlikely list... Xerdek! 03:13, July 14, 2012 (UTC)

I feel like they A) Wouldnt ban Brionac since it just got 2 reprints, and B) Without Trish, a lot of the synchro fanbase dwindled.

Maybe Sangan. But I dont think so. Sangan helps EVERYONE in every deck. It is definately abused by Tour Guide, but Tour Guide is abused by everyone else. Plus, i like the idea of Semi-limiting Tour Guide and Rabbit myself, which would make sangan more necessary to keep the deck balanced without killing it. With the exception of Agents, no one likes to see a deck die completely.

Hornet and Hunter - I repeat, no one liked to see a deck die completely. Id say limit Hunter and Limit Dragonfly while leaving Hornet alone

Five-Headed - I feel like this is going to be one of those cards that Konami will keep around despite all of the trouble it's gotten us into. They wont touch Future Fusion either. Id predict that they semi or maybe even limit Lightpulsar. That would balance the deck out imo IF Im right and they dont ban Five-Headed

Heavy Storm - ehh I was sad when this came back to replace Trunade (R.I.P.), but no one runs traps anymore anyway. Id rather have Heavy Storm at 1, than have Gravekeepers in the meta...

Agent Earth should go to 2 while Striker stays at 1. It's less splashable.

In addition to my previous comment about Rabbit and Tour Guide, I think putting Leviare at 2 would finish off the balancing of that deck...along with priority being gone.

Level Limit B - unlimited because who cares.

Marshmallon - unlimited because the meta pops and piereces as a standard nowadays

No that's pretty much it - handiquacks

Thedarkdoor (talk • contribs) 03:49, July 14, 2012 (UTC)thedarkdoor


 * Are you kidding? wind-ups already use 1 hunter.Earth is good at 1. Konami won't ban unneeded cards, so FHD will stay. future fusion IS the broken part. Semi Lightpulsar is not enough as a hit. i am sorry but only solution to dino rabbits is to BAN rabbit. konami needs to understand the fact that any card that gives you easy instant access to your deck is broken.--LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 07:32, July 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * By that logic all tutors are broken. And Future Fusion isn't the broken part. Many chaos dragons opt not to use it as it is only good early to early-mid game. And limiting rabbit would be a solution to Dino Rabbit. They would absolutely have to rely on Leviar to reuse rabbit. This would make Dino Rabbit as a deck itself inconsistent and therefore not "Tier 1." Djjomon (talk • contribs) 14:40, July 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * No, most Chaos Dragon builds that top at YCS and stuff use Future Fusion. Just look at the 3rd place WCQ duelist, he used Future Fusion. Why would Leviair need to be hit? I don't think people run more than 2 Leviair in Dino-Rabbit, 3 just seems excessive. Signal was hit a little too hard, Sams became slower, so Konami had it Semi-Limited to give a boost to Sam players, also it's better than having Shi-En Semi-Limited. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  14:55, July 14, 2012 (UTC)

Shiens smoke signal was semi limited again because it's not powerfull enough to be limited. It isn't very ban-worthy at all so it is fine at 2.

matthew.lightbody@talktalk.net (talk • contribs) 16:21, July 14, 2012 (UTC)

if you look at the history of the metagame you will find that most tier 1 decks used a card that gave you an almost free special summon from your deck. Frog OTK -substitoad-, Dino rabbits -guess who-, Synchro cat -Rescue Cat-, Wind-up -Zenmaity-, Fish OTK - Colecanath-, Inzektors -Dragonfly-, Hieratics -Atum-. See?--LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 08:09, July 15, 2012 (UTC)

The Fish OTK was stopped by hitting Fishborg Blaster, not Colecanath. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  14:18, July 15, 2012 (UTC)

Just wanted to mention why I think Sangan should be banned. I believe that Sangan joining Witch of the Black Forest on the banned list would give Konami the opportunity to release weaker, watered-down versions of both Sangan and Witch. They've done the samedthing with other banned cards. I can see the new versions being one level less than their counterparts (thereby rendering the new Sangan incompatible with Tour Guide). And their effects could be something like "When this card on the field is destroyed and sent to the Graveyard: Add 1 monster with 800 ATK/DEF from your Deck to your hand." That means monsters like Tour Guide, Inzektor Dragonfly, Dark Armed Dragon and the Monarchs can't be searced. Also, they wouldn't have their effect triggered if they are used as Synchro/Fusion/Ritual material.

That's just what I think could happen.

--Moja619 (talk • contribs) 00:56, July 16, 2012 (UTC)

-- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  03:20, July 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) Sangan can't search DAD or the Monarchs.
 * 2) Is Sangan really the problem when you think of Inzektors?
 * 3) Why not just Semi-Limit Tour Guide, sure Sangan is still a target, but hitting Sangan is unfair for a lot of decks, because weaker decks can use it to search things they need. It's an unfair hit to everyone.
 * 4) 800 ATK is horrible, there's almost nothing good I could search with that, except for maybe Effect Veiler or something. The replacement should have the exact same search range as the card it's replacing, maybe have less conditions in which it can activate (Thus Missing the Timing), but it should at least have the same search range.


 * A Sangan replacement should also not be DARK/LIGHT. Maybe fire, but with more than 200 Defense. And of course not a level 3 Fiend this time. Djjomon (talk • contribs) 03:29, July 16, 2012 (UTC)

Sangan is not a problem it does not need to be banned because of tourguide. It's tour guide that should be semi limited. It's not searching with sangan that's the problem, the problem is searching for the sangan with tourguide.

matthew.lightbody@talktalk.net (talk • contribs) 10:12, July 16, 2012 (UTC)

Nope. Sangan is good. Semi tourguide will do the trick. Also sangan is balanced enough LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 13:59, July 16, 2012 (UTC)

Redo sept 1 2012 banlist predictions
I want to redo my predictions because my last predictions were terrible. Inzecktor dragonfly ~ limited.Because limiting laggia does not do anything. Wind up hunter~ banned. Mezuki~ semi limited. Zombies are not played at all. They need a boost. Pot of avarice ~ unlimited. This card is hardly used. Light pulsar dragon~ limited. Spore ~ limited. Sychro plants should come back. Destiny draw~ unlimited.Because nobody uses Destiny Heroes. Tour guide from the underworld ~ semi limited. Black luster solider envoy of the beginning ~ Banned. I hope this helps. Sorry for the bad banlist prediction.


 * Unlimiting Avarice would make Synchro Decks a lot stronger, too strong. I run Karakuris and would run at least 2 Avarices if I could, it's that powerful in the deck. I don't know where you were going with saying Limting Laggia doesn't do anything, you didn't place it on any list. And Zombies are a lot stronger than you think. I have a really successful Zombie Deck. Not sure how I feel about Mezuki at a Semi-Limit, they don't really need it but after giving Lightsworns a huge boost, why not? Djjomon (talk • contribs) 01:02, July 17, 2012 (UTC)


 * We still have Brionac, and Mezuki kinda gets abused by Brionac. -- - Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  01:31, July 17, 2012 (UTC)


 * Ever tried Xyz Zombies? I have a builed that completley crushed the top tier.if mezuki gets semi'd, i will be more than happy--LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 10:16, July 17, 2012 (UTC)

oh and btw, plants should NEVER come back.--LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 10:18, July 17, 2012 (UTC)

dragons, and atum
First of all, the chaos dragons are too new to be hit hard, and dark worlds aren't top tier, also how prevalent is the hieratic loop? I've heard nothing about it.

That's because to complete and otk in the hieratic loop, you'll need http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Super-Dreadnought_Gun_Turret_Train_-_Gustav_Max and that is in OCG, but most likely they'll hit one card in Hieratics IF OCG sees the risk in continuing or still wanting to make a profit out of it. Fallensilence (talk • contribs) 06:40, July 17, 2012 (UTC)


 * Gustav max is going to come o TCG soon, and i really hope that konami does not act so stupid and hit some good cards in hieratics like eset/su/nebthet/tefnuit.--LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 10:20, July 17, 2012 (UTC)

Well I highly doubt that just like what they did with the Inzektors, they'll keep it for one format and then hit it at the next format. Fallensilence (talk • contribs) 17:20, July 17, 2012 (UTC)