Forum:September 2013 Banlist Predictions

My Predictions
We're still a ways away from September (May 5 now) but there's a lot of action going on now, especially with the recent TCG release of Hidden Arsenal 7. Here are my current predictions for the September 2013 banlist:

Banned:


 * Mind Control - This card is way overdue IMO. Yeah you can't attack with or tribute the monster, but most of us don't care about that when you can always synchro or xyz summon with it anyways.
 * Pot of Avarice - Same as Mind Control. This isn't very likely, but this card still gives way too much recycling power and draw power, especially in the mid and late games.
 * Spellbook of Judgment - This card makes prophecies way too fast, and it's so searchable and recyclable that a ban is virtually the only way to solve the problem.

Limited:


 * Atlantean Dragoons - Mermail-Atlanteans need to be hit this format. This card is why they're so consistent; searching an entire type by itself is way too good IMO.
 * Rescue Rabbit - Rabbits aren't quite as good as they once were without Sangan, but if you insist on hitting Dinos, Evilswarms, and Fire Fists do this. They can still search and reuse it with Gold Sarc/Leviair anyways.
 * Sinister Serpent - I honestly think this card is worth testing at 1. Running it in Mermails is like running it in Dark Worlds -- You'll always have something better to pitch in both decks, and Divine Wrath/Lightning Vortex ect are just bad in the current metagame.
 * Tidal, Elemental Dragon of Cascades - Mermail-Atlanteans would abuse this card if it stays unlimited, since they can already make enough rank 7's with Abyssmegalo/Abyssteus, ect. It's also a great way to trigger Dragoons, Marksman, Infantry, Gunde/Hilde, ect. This and Tempest should go to 1 to slow down e-drags.
 * Tempest, Elemental Dragon of Cyclones - There's a LOT of hate over the Elemental Dragons, and while they can be sided against quite easily in games 2 and 3, they're still too powerful with 3 copies of this. Like Dragoons, Tempest can search an entire type by itself. Limit this and Tidal (above) to 1, and the deck is still playable, but not broken.
 * (Maybe) Wind-Up Carrier Zenmaity - Personally I think Konami over-hit Wind-ups with the March 2013 lists, but I don't really expect this to happen since Konami rarely undoes a banned change just one format later.
 * Fire Formation - Tenki - ROTA for Beast-Warriors. Nuff said really.

Semi-Limited:


 * T.G. Striker - T.G. Agents haven't made a huge impact on the current meta; this could come down to 2 to give them a better chance.
 * One for One - With Disc Commander, Fishborg Blaster, Substitoad, and Mind Master now banned, this could come down to 2 to give slower decks a chance.
 * Solemn Warning - This card was balanced at 2 to slow down the tons of special summons we see in today's metagame. Double Warning first turn can be irritating, but it's not that hard to get around, especially in a format where everyone mains Storm and 3 mst's.

Unlimited:


 * Thunder King Rai-Oh - Either this, or limit it to one. I prefer this. No one ran more than 2 T-King's begin with.
 * Tsukuyomi - The Tsukuyomi Lockdown is not playable so long as Time Seal stays banned, so...why not?
 * Magical Stone Excavation - This card just doesn't see play anymore. Diamond Dude Turbo, Empty Jar, and Fableds are the only decks that really run this card in today's metagame, none of which are threatening the current meta in the first place.
 * Mirror Force - There have been fewer decks running this card as a main deck staple since it came down to 2, and it's usually viewed as being inferior to Bottomless, Torrential, Warning, Compuls, and D-Prison with the amount of destruction, negation, and protection power against it. Even if Mirror Force does get unlimited, I doubt anyone would run 3.

Well, these are my current predictions. Any comments on them? 98.206.70.2 (talk) 12:37, May 5, 2013 (UTC)


 * I don't think we'll see Pot of Avarice hit, it's been at 1 for at least 3 formats and seems to be fine there. As for Atlanteans, Dragoons might help slow the deck down, but it might also not be enough. I think that Tenki should get hit, but only if we get Brotherhood of the Fire Fist - Chicken. I don't really have much to say about the other choices. But I do want to add that I think we'll have a somewhat good shot of getting some hits for cards in Lord of the Tachyon Galaxy, mostly because it allows both the TCG and OCG to play E-Drags at Worlds. -- Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  00:27, May 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * I think that Dragoons helps in slowing it down, but Mermail-Atlanteans might still be too good if Mermail Abysslinde stays unlimited. Limiting that to 1 along with Dragoons might be enough, or too much. Tenki is the only real problem with the deck; it can be easily searched in fire fists anyways (by plenty of other cards than Chicken -- Bear, Gorilla, Tiger King, ect), and can be reused since it's continuous. Limiting it to 1 solves every broken aspect with Fire Fists. With regards to LOTTG, I don't think the Mecha Phantom Beasts will get hit; at most maybe Dracossack to 2 or 1, but Dracossack is not the problem with E-Drags as you only need one to make a first turn LaDD anyways, or pull off other combos with it. As much as I hate going up against a first turn LaDD, limiting Tempest is likely the best thing to slow them down, yet still keep them alive; if that doesn't happen I could also see an outright ban on REDMD. Battlin' Boxers aren't hard to get around, and I don't think they'll get hit either. Unless Prophecies start topping, same goes for Spellbook Judgment Day. However, it's pretty hard to call which cards, if any, will be banned; that's kinda opinion based, and it's difficult to predict what Konami will ban sometimes. (BLS is broken, but it hasn't done much on the tournament scene overall. Reborn is broken, but everyone can use it, so why complain? Gateway is a win button, but Six Sams aren't doing anything. Card Destruction is a win button for Dark Worlds and Fableds, but like Sams, neither of them are doing anything. Offering is broken, but it isn't consistent in the decks it's used in, by virtue of being limited). (meh, made some spelling errors) 98.206.70.2 (talk) 15:22, May 7, 2013 (UTC)

(Edit) After i've put some more thought into my list, I think this is what will happen. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 16:55, May 8, 2013 (UTC) 65.131.54.202 (talk) 22:18, May 17, 2013 (UTC)

My Preditions
Banned:

Mind Control - this card Has been used to synchro or xyz monsters by using your opponent's monster, also you can steal a monster your opponent controls and use it for a cost of an effect other than tribute cost. Its best to ban this card especially when Judgment of the Light is coming out with new synchro monsters.

Limited:

Mermail Abyssmegalo - This card is the main reason why Mermail/Atlantean Decks are topping. This is one of the cards that make the deck look fast, also this card causes Otk/Ftks. limiting this can solve the problem.

Atlantean Dragoons - This is another card that makes Mermail/Atlantean Decks look fast, also this can make your 3 or lower sea serpents attack directly. Limiting this card can help slow down the deck.

Rescue Rabbit - Rescue Rabbit has dominated 3 formats with Dino Rabbits. Also now there are other decks that are using this card such as Evilswarms, Fire Fist, Harpies, Gem-Knights, etc. This card won't dominate much if its limited.

Sinister Serpent - Too slow for the meta nowanddays, even the dark door combo with this card can handle the speed of the new decks, especially with 3 MSTs and Heavy Storm.

Imperial Order - Not as broken as it used to be when the meta got faster. Also, there are decks now that has spell/trap removal cards that arent spell cards, meaning this card might not last as much on the field. Also top decks wouldnt really run this card. Also Royal Decree is unlimited, so...

Gold Sarcophagus - the Dragon Ruler archetype can use this card to banish a Dragon Ruler monster (level 7 ones) from your deck, then using the effect of the Dragon Ruler monster adding a dragon of their element from the deck to the hand, making you not lose much hand advantage and getting the banished Dragon Ruler monster to your hand at the 2nd Standby Phase.

Fire Formation - Tenki - This card can bring out almost any the Fire Fist monster from your deck to your hand. also you can use this card in other decks that has Beast Warrior monsters. This card can be brought out your deck by most of the Fire Fist monster's effect.

Semi-Limited:

Mermail Abysslinde - Although this card can bring out any Mermail moster other than herself, her effect can really only be used once per turn.

Gladiator Beast Bestiari - Gladiator Beast arent doing nothing.

Formula Synchron - Not as good anymore due to the good level 1 tuners banned. also this card isnt really doing much in the current meta.

Mezuki - Zombie decks arent doing anything.

Book of Moon - popular decks really runs this card anymore.

One for One - Plant decks really only use this card, and they arent topping.

Unlimited

Debris Dragon - Not much useable in this format.

Tsukuyomi - no one uses this card.

Advanced Ritual Art - No one really uses ritual decks anymore.

Magical Stone Excavation - Same as Tsukuyomi.

Reasoning - Same as Tsukuyomi.

Mirror Force - This card really never gets a chance to use it's effect after it gets blown-up by a card effect. Torrential Tribute is considered better than this card cause it can break strategies that this card can't. Mecha Phantom Beast monsters arent really gonna be affected by this card. Also most people wouldn't really run more than 2.

Thats what i think my predition is, any comments? Guardian Skunk (talk • contribs) 15:23, May 10, 2013 (UTC)

Formula Synchron can't come back, Plants still exist and Synchron decks can probably make use of this card, same with One for One. Gladiator Beast Bestiari won't come down because then all of a sudden you get Gladiator Beast Gyzarus spam, not really fun. I also don't think Imperial Order is going to come down, I think it's been proven time and time again that decks can win without trap line-ups, but they can't really win without spells. It's a broad generalization, but really true, plus not all decks can run trap or Monster removal effects, some can but not all. -- Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  01:32, May 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * I could see Formula Synchron come down to 2 at some point, but it still gives Synchro decks lots of draw power, especially with T.G. Hyper, and T.G. Striker or One for One to 2 would be better. One for One isn't all that good with Disc Commander, Substitoad, Mind Master, Glow-Up Bulb, and Magical Scientist now banned, so it might not do much harm at 2. Also, if you wanted to hit E-Drags, Gold Sarc isn't the best way to go, neither is Necroface or LaDD. REDMD getting banned is a possibility, but hitting some of the big e-drags is probably the best way to go. If you think Bestiari or Mezuki should come down from one...yeah you probrably haven't faced a descent Glad Beast or Zombie build in a while. They're still a pain to go up against sometimes, even with their key cards limited (Plaguespreader also a key card in zombies). Glads can already search their 1 Bestiari with 3 Test Tigers and/or 3 Gladiator Proving Grounds. Book of Moon coming down is a possibility, but when Konami unlimited it a while back, people abused the hell out of it, so they limited it again to prevent abuse from it. It's pretty much a trap in the form of a spell; it seems fine at one. Unfortunately for Imperial Order, it's probrably never going to leave the forbidden list. One, yes everyone would run the card, and two, we're instantly going to have a "set 5 backrows and end my turn format" if Order comes back, except Heavy Storm and Mst won't be there to save you. That and, you can just choose not pay 700 in your standby to activate spells on your turn and create ridiculous otk's. Unbanning Order is pretty much the equivalent of banning Storm -- it ain't gonna happen. 75.5.237.113 (talk) 12:34, May 11, 2013 (UTC)

Wow, have any of you been paying attention to Dueling Network? Only 2-3 Decks are being used: Dragon Rulers, Spellbook, and Evilswarm. The problem are the first 2 'cause they're too versatile. Spellbook of Judgment will definitely get limited and maybe Spellbook of Secrets. For Dragon Rulers, the mini-ones should be Limited, and everything else - semi-limited. Evilswarm is only there because it's one of the only ways to counter the others. Seriously, if you've been only playing TCG for now, you don't know what Lord of the Tachyon Galaxy will do to the meta. 190.124.165.194 (talk) 23:17, May 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * Dueling Network doesn't always give true results of what competitive players use, and even so, I'm not sure if those 3 are the only ones to be talking about. Fire Fists and Mermails have dominated the TCG this format, with Mermails winning 4 YCS's and winning against Fire Fists in the last rounds of Austin and San Diego. Evilswarms only got 2 of the top 32 at Meadowlands, the only YCS they could make an appearance in this format (Mermails got 15 of the top 32 there, including 1st place). If anything Rabbit needs to go to 1 to slow down Evilswarms. Nothing else really needs to be hit with them. The minis are not the problem with the dragon rulers; the big guys are the problem since 1) they're splashable into any deck of their attribute, and 2) their secondary effects are pretty broken, particularly Tempest's; it's practically Dragoons for Dragon-types. While prophecies are a pretty fun deck to play, they're having a hard time on the competitive scene in the TCG/OCG because they're so easy to counter in games 2 and 3. Evilswarms main deck (sometimes side deck) Eradicator Epidemic Virus to kill prophecies game 1, and dragon rulers also run it (to sack off no. 11 big eye and kill all their spells) to wipe them out as well. I strongly doubt spellbook of judgment will get hit because of that, and even if it is, the only solution IS to ban it. Limiting Judgment makes no sense as you have 3 Spellbook of Secrets, 3 Spellbook of the Master, and Justice of Prophecy/Spellbook Magician of Prophecy to easily search that one copy of Judgment. It's going to end up being abused every duel, even if it goes to 1. Tenki definitely needs to go to 1 to slow down Fire Fists, and so does Dragoons/Abysslinde for Mermail-Atlanteans. Some other decks could get a boost this format, but Prophecies, Evilswarms, and Dragon rulers are definitely not going to be the only 3 decks Konami will hit this September. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 14:26, May 18, 2013 (UTC)

in my opinion, it is time to hit Light and Darkness Dragon, consider how crazy to face him in elemental dragon ( we all know they often summon it in first turn with Mecha Phantom Beast Dracossack and Number 11: Big Eye. these 2 are serious abused right now. and yeah, in DN or/and maybe also in real life, they like to use 3 in the deck/ extra deck. the rest mostly i agree with u except reasoning, ARA, GB bestiari, debris dragon formula synchron,and tsukoyomi.Gemini 93 (talk • contribs) 06:49, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * LaDD is a pain to face in e-dragons. However, in my opinion, it's pointless to limit LaDD or Dragosac or Big Eye as you only need one (Ladd can be searched by elipse wyvern or Tempest) to win against your opponent anyways (just like you only needed one Brionac to win anyways). But I don't think any of them should get banned either since, tbh, they're only really abusable in the e-dragon deck. There's no other deck that can spam them with such consistency. The logical move would be to hit the big e-drags (Tidal, Tempest, Blaster, and Redox) and not the Xyz's made by them. In the same way, target the Rabbit, not the monster it summons. I'm kinda for the other options, though not for all of them. Bestiari and Mezuki would probrably be better off at 1, since they would be too good at 2, same for Formula Synchron. Herald of Perfection lockdowns and Demise/Doom OTK's still aren't relevant to today's meta so I could care less if Advanced Ritual Art comes down to 3, same with Reasoning since turbo OTK's are also inconsistent in today's meta. Tsukuyomi was only broken 7-8 years ago when it was involved in a lockdown with Mask of Darkness and Time Seal; you would get your opponent into a situation where they were topdecking with no cards in their hand and on their field, activate Time Seal in your main phase, flip Mask of Darkness, return Time Seal back, re-set it, summon Tsukuyomi, flip Mask back facedown, attack directly with Tsukuyomi, and repeat until victory. However, that lockdown is not playable anymore. After so many years, Konami has finally realized Time Seal was the real problem with that lockdown, and it's banned and never coming back. Drop off doesn't count as a substitute for Time Seal because discarding a drawn card can actually help your opponent. For that reason, Drop off just doesn't see play. Other loops, like Needle Worm and Man-Eater Bug loops with Tsukuyomi, are just downright bad in the current meta. I gurantee Tsukuyomi is coming down to 3. Like Breaker, it used to be broken, but now it's not. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 15:43, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

Prediction
Evilswarms are definitely going to get hit pretty hard, as are E Dragons. Evilswarm Bahumat is going to get either limited or banned, its basically Number 11: Big Eye, only much easier to summon, and at only the cost of discarding 1 card. C'mon.

69.65.88.14 (talk) 20:58, June 1, 2013 (UTC)


 * While Evilswarm Bahamut is easier to summon, it also needs a discard, which means you lose a monster from your hand to take one from your opponent. That's actually really fair. Even if you did summon it with Rescue Rabbit, you're going to break even in the end. Also, it's low ATK for a Rank 4 also means it's going to probably get run over the next turn. -- Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  22:50, June 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * Evilswarms are, in general, just an anti-meta arechetype of DARK monsters that have lots of options open to them, but they aren't the best deck in today's meta. While they can counter Synchro, Ritual (Barring Relinquished), Fusion, and other decks that use lots of high-level monsters (Dragon Rulers, Chaos decks), Evilswarm Ophion doesn't really help them with their bad matchups against other decks that can also spam rank 4-5 xyz monsters and take them down, like "hunders", Constellars, Wind-Ups, Fire Fists, Heraldic Beasts, Infernities, and other decks like that. Limiting Rabbit to 1 would definitely hurt Evilswarms, but it also hurts many other decks, like Macro Rabbit (still one of the top decks in today's metagame). If Rabbit doesn't go to 1 Ophion might get a semi-limit, but I doubt Bahamut will be hit. Ophion is the key card in the deck. Ophion not only seals special summons from high-level monsters and has good atk for a rank 4, but it can also search for the deck's broken field-covering forbidden lance and deck searcher (Pandemic and Infection). 98.206.70.2 (talk) 03:01, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

So after all this here is my list i will not cover all changes just a few i think is needed R1 tempest, dragoons, abysslinde, tenki, tidal, rabbit, R2 secrets, blaster(fire kings,fire fist and ruler), fate R3 tsuky R0 judgement day

basicly that would slow down all tier 1 and some 2 and open the door for others decks becouse thoose is all we have seen in march format. that will be an open door for constellar and mecha beast phanton to grow up in setember.177.206.248.235 (talk) 04:34, June 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm not really sure about Spellbook of Judgment, to be honest I think it could go to 1 or to 0. If it goes to 1 prophecies can still search it with secrets, master, and spellbook magician of prophecy, and reuse it with eternity, but prophecies don't need spellbook of judgment to be a good deck; they're still very playable without it. But if Judgment gets banned, secrets and fate don't need a hit alongside that. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 04:51, June 2, 2013 (UTC)


 * That's true, Prophecy don't need Judgment to be good, they need it to be great. The search power and speed that Judgment brings is what keeps Prophecy in the game. Also, Prophecy don't have any kind of explosive play, their main asset is card build-up and mega power boosts with Star Hall. -- Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  12:55, June 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * Power plays with star hall and draw + recycling power/grave setup with spellbook tower (when it's destroyed) give prophecies some pretty nice advantages; Spellbook of Judgment is just there because it's an auto-win button for the deck. It gives them so much speed, search power, and field control (via Jowgen), it's not even funny. I faced prophecies before spellbook of judgment was released and they were MORE than playable; the arrival of judgment in LOTG just gave them that extra push to being one of the best decks in today's metagame. If Judgment isn't outright banned I could also see it going to 1, but you kinda only need one judgment to win anyways; the deck has 9 or 10 cards that can search it, and 3 Eternity to reuse it once Fate or Priestess banishes it from grave, so limiting it won't stop them from sacking. It'll make prophecies less consistent for sure, but not enough as to where they won't be able to abuse Judgment every duel in some way, shape, or form. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 20:40, June 2, 2013 (UTC)


 * Ok Prophecy are good or great but I believe that its price is higher than most people can afford, as they have a lot of cards that are over-prized and almost all of the deck has foiled cards, another thing to consider is that a lot of people want to play the two "new" meta decks (Dragon Ruler and Evilswarm), the Evilswarm is reasonable cheap to do (except Kerykeion and Ophion) so it is "the best choice" to some of the people in my community, Dragon Ruler are expensive (all of its rare cards are about $5 to $6 bucks) and Big Eye and Dracossac are way to expensive, none the less the last tournament (here in Mexico, before the finals in about one month) the only top 16 were evilswarm and dragon rulers, so I don´t see Prophecy being hit hard, and the last format Konami didn't hit the cards of recent packs (that time Mermails and Fire Fist), they decided to hit some things like Rai-Oh and One Day of Peace. I think its to early to make a prediction (at least for me) 'cause I have been wrong before. Jaggo 80 (talk • contribs) 14:25, June 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * Evilswarms aren't going to get hit that hard, if at all. Evilswarms are good against certain meta decks like Dragon Rulers but they have a terrible time with other decks that can spam their own rank 4 xyz monsters. Ophion doesn't lock down everything; I've beaten Evilswarms relatively easily with Wind-Ups and Constellars and plenty other xyz swarm decks. The only thing I can possibly see is Rabbit going to 1, and even that's not extremely likely. 75.40.248.154 (talk) 16:47, June 3, 2013 (UTC)

September 2013 Banlist?
Here's mine: Note* Add suggestions!

Limited: Infestation Pandemic: This card is so overpowered and it protects all of your Evilswarm monsters without a cost. It's extremely easy to search as Evilswarms have cards like Rescue Rabbit and Evilswarm Castor to easily make Ophion.

Number 11 Big Eye: I admit, as a Dragon player I have really screwed some players over by taking their monster. I admit, it does have a good cost, and does prevent massive OTK's, but taking a monster that could've had such valuable resources to make with such a cost that doesn't let you attack is too OP.

Battlin' Boxer Lead Yoke: Haha I'm going to Dark Hole that pathetic XYZ monster. Oh.. Never mind.

Unlimited: Mirror Force: Hmmm... Let's see, Dracossack isn't affected, Lead Yoke isn't affected,  Shi En isn't affect, Ophion isn't affected (pandemic most of the time). This card has just gotten too useless in this format that it's gonna bump up to three. Nuff said.

Banned: Black Luster Soldier- Envoy of the Beginning: EASY TO SUMMON! CAN ATTACK TWICE! 3000 BEATER! Should be called OP soldier, starter of the end (of the duel).

Semi Limited: Mecha Phantom Beast Dracossack: I admit, this card can be overpowered but most of the time fairly easy to get over.

142.59.161.172 (talk) 00:22, June 5, 2013 (UTC) NC


 * But what has BLS done in this format? Sure it is all of the things you said, but has it really been overused to the point it needs to go back to the Forbidden side? I don't think so. As for hitting the various Xyz Monsters, Konami might decide to just hit the cards that make them, instead of them directly. -- Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  12:29, June 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * Mirror Force to 3 isn't a bad idea. I like dem otk-discouragers, and you're right, it doesn't see much play anymore. As for Evilswarms, I think they will likely hit Rabbit to 1 to slow them down or perhaps Ophion could get semi-limited, but limiting or banning Infestation Pandemic or Ophion hurts the deck way too much, especially since it's not that hard to counter with other xyz swarm decks like Wind-Ups or Constellars. Bls probrably won't get banned since it hasn't done much in the current format, so I think he'll stay at 1. Also, Battlin' Boxers likely won't get hit so hard as to limiting yoke since they haven't done much on the OCG or TCG tournament scenes (P.S: try using compuls to get past yoke). Also, Big Eye and Dragossack aren't what make Dragon Rulers broken; it's how easily they can be summoned since Redox, Tempest, Blaster, and Tidal are all unlimited. If any of them went to 2 or 1 Dragossack and Big Eye become so much less relevant. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 12:56, June 5, 2013 (UTC)

OP? Not really
I think limiting all the adult dragon rulers would really hurt the deck. I have played many decks that counter my moves for first turn rank 7's. Compulsary Evac. Bottomless(ish). That one trap card that kills 2 monsters. MIRROR MATCH. OPHION. BIG EYE. It's a new format. A faster one. More competitive. It's time to get fast. It's time to adapt. It's nothing to complain about. It's a first turn format. Who goes first has an ADVANTAGE, not exactly game. IT's about recovering from the first turn Draccosack, ophion, priestess, Shi En, etc. I don't complain about Ophion. I don't complain about somebody big eyeing my big eye. It's just what's there.

Dragon rulers.

They aren't that OP. Sure, they can get out rank 7's but jeez louis it's easy to counter if you go first. Evilswarms can beat em. Antimeta. Mirror Match. Tidal Mermails. They're not undefeatable. 142.59.161.172 (talk) 16:48, June 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * Not all of the lv 7 dragon rulers should go to 1, I agree, but at least 1 or 2 of them should get hit to at least semi to slow down the deck. And just because a card or deck has counters doesn't mean these counters always work. If counters solved anything, should Chaos Emperor Dragon and Makyura the Destructor be unbanned since they can be countered? No way, counters don't make a card or deck less broken. You say Dragon Rulers aren't OP? They are overpowering and broken, no matter how you look at it, and the deck must be slowed down at least somewhat. It must be hit to the point where it's "good", but not the best deck around. Plenty of other decks got that treatment, like Wind-Ups, Inzektors, Chaos Dragons, Hieratics, ect. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 01:56, June 6, 2013 (UTC)


 * Listing mirror matches as something that can beat dragon rulers is stupid lol. I don't think any of the adult dragon rulers should even be touched. IMO the baby dragon rulers should be the ones that get hit. Mostly because they are the ones that make the deck really consistent. Before the baby dragons came out, they weren't that bad since they would use up a lot of their resources at once to even get out a rank 7.-- Aexon 17:31, June 6, 2013 (UTC)


 * Not to mention the baby dragons give more draws off of Super Rejuvenation. -- Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  19:19, June 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * While it's true that the baby dragons are what gave the deck enough consistency to top in the first place, the babys aren't the "problem" with the deck. Limitng the babys won't do anything since 1) most dragon ruler decks that top in the OCG don't run more than 1 (sometimes 2) of each baby, and 2) they can still banish the big guys with seven star sword or gold sarcophagus to search their respective babys if the babys go to 1. The baby dragon rulers won't do that much if their lv 7 daddys get limited or semi-limited. All the babys did was break the daddys to the point where they're too hard to beat on the competitve level in the OCG. All of the dragon ruler decks that top in the OCG run 3 of each of the lv 7's, but they never run 3 of the minis, so hitting them would be dumb. Also, the big guys are splashable into several different decks of their own attributes, other than pure dragon rulers, so it would slow down the meta as a whole if the daddys got hit to 1 or to 2. Super rejuvenation is a great form of draw power, but it's only confined to one deck, and if the key lv 7 monsters of that deck get hit, super rejuvenation isn't so much of a problem. In a similar manner, if Dragoons or Abysslinde went to 1 or 2 to slow down Mermail-Atlanteans, other broken cards in that deck (like Moulinglacia the elemental lord) aren't as relevant. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 23:52, June 6, 2013 (UTC)


 * Actually, Moulinglacia has just fallen out of favor with many Mermail decks. It's just not as useful in the late stages where the deck has really been mass tested to "perfection". As for the bigger Lv 7 Dragon Rulers, I'd be fine if they all went to 2 each, as they all serve different attributes as well as their own archetype. One might be best for Tempest, but after that you should really be fine. -- Dark Ace SP ( Talk )  04:38, June 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I mean, once the key cards of the deck get hit, other mere tech choices for the deck (like Necroface for dragon rulers) aren't as relevant anymore. Tempest is more likely than not going to be hit, mainly because it can add any dragon from your deck to your hand (most notably REDMD and LaDD). Limiting him to 1 would probably be all you need to hit the dragon rulers. Even though the deck is good, I agree it's not unbeatable. But again, just because the dragon rulers can be countered doesn't mean they shouldn't be hit by the banlist. They're still pretty hard to overcome. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 12:21, June 7, 2013 (UTC)

Pff, tier 1. What's those?
~Banned~ ~Limited~ ~Semi-Limited- ~Off List~ Gem-Knight Parshath (talk • contribs) 03:54, June 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * Black Luster Gamebreak - Envoy of the Beginning
 * 'nuff said
 * Spellbook of Judgment
 * Who doesn't love a +12? Oh, yeah, everyone that has to deal with it...
 * Infestation Pandemic
 * You know, because a near-2600 beater obviously needs to be completely invincible...
 * Super Rejuvenation
 * Easily one of the most OP cards in Dragon Rulers. You toss, summon, banish, summon, toss, destroy, toss, search, summon, toss, banish, tribute...need I go further?
 * Mecha Phantom Beast Dracossack
 * An invicible boss for a tier 1 deck that can blow crap up. Seems self-explanitory to me.
 * Gungnir, Dragon of the Ice Barrier
 * Kill this OP pile o' crap!
 * Deep Sea Diva
 * Lets Merlanteans tap into Broken Dragon(see above). Searches out cards like Atlantean Heavy Infantry so you can summon again! YAY!
 * Atlantean Dragoons
 * While we're on Merlanteans, let's kill the searcher.
 * Mermail Abyssmegalo
 * I don't care how hard, but this flaming pile of garbage needs to get hit. Bad. That's all I have to say.
 * Spellbook of Secrets/Spellbook Magician of Prophecy
 * Why isn't this already hit? It searches out OP garbage that no one should have to deal with.
 * Blaster, Dragon Ruler of Volcanoes
 * That's a very nice ANYTHING you have there...be a shame if something...happened to it ;)
 * Tempest, Dragon Ruler of Storms
 * Kill all the searchers!
 * Redox, Dragon Ruler of Boulders
 * Who doesn't want to go against a deck running 4 Monster Reborns? Oh, yeah...EVERYONE!
 * Tidal, Dragon Ruler of Waterfalls
 * Kill this Foolish Burial wannabe.
 * Number 11: Big Eye
 * I really don't think he actually needs to get hit that hard, being as most(if not all) tier 1 decks run him. Since he can take another copy, who cares?
 * Reactan, Dragon Ruler of Pebbles; Burner, Dragon Ruler of Sparks; Lightning, Dragon Ruler of Drafts; Stream, Dragon Ruler of Droplets
 * Let's bring out massive beaters for absolutely no cost! Plus, no one runs more than 2 anyway.
 * Summoner Monk
 * No one runs this.
 * Thunder King Rai-Oh
 * If everyone gets to search, why can't we stop them?
 * T.G. Striker
 * There's better cards out there. He doesn't even really do all that much.
 * Pot of Greed
 * Who cares anymore?
 * Magical Stone Excavation
 * Even the few people that DO run this don't/won't run more than 2. Because it's bad, that's why.

Please understand that line breaks don't exactly work that way on wikia. Anyway, I highly doubt Gungnir would get hit anytime soon. If anything, Mermails, the archetype that's most likely to be running it, would be affected in such a way that the use of Gungnir would be reduced. The card itself isn't OP in comparison to its predecessor or successor, what with its Synchro Material restriction and constricted effect. --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 05:13, June 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * I know we all hate dragon rulers, but they're not going to be hit THAT hard. Either semi-limit all the big guys or just limit Tempest to 1. The mini dragon rulers and super reju probrably won't be hit as they aren't going to do much if the lv 7's get hit. Also, if the big guys get hit, people won't complain about the xyz's (Big Eye and Dragossack) either. Mermails will certainly be hit, but they likely won't have so many cards hit; if anything Dragoons and something else to 1, but not 3 or 4 cards to 1. BLS is broken, but in the current format it's not like it wins entire tournaments by itself. Sure it can win duels by itself from time to time, but otherwise, it's fine at 1. If Spellbook of Judgment gets outright banned (which I desperately want to happen), secrets and spellbook magician won't need to be hit, since without Judgment, prophecies will have no way of making massive hand setups. Why should Infestation Pandemic be hit? It's only confined to one deck and it's not the reason Evilswarms are broken, it's Rabbit that needs to go to 1. Pot of Greed defines broken. It will never come back. Summoner Monk is still a great card; it searches most key lv 4 cards in many decks. I think it's staying at 2. T.G. Striker could definitely come down, but probrably to 2 first. TKRO didn't deserve the semi-limit and it was fine at 3, but konami wanted to make more money off of prophecies. Then again, it was kinda pointless since no one ran more than 2 T-kings anyways. No one uses Magical Stone Excavation anymore, so I don't see why not to 3. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 10:59, June 10, 2013 (UTC)

Dracossack is not that hard to get over! Come on! There's many counters to Dragon Rulers like freaking Gozen Match and various other things. People side HEAVILY against the deck, so don't have worrys. Triangle format peeps <><>14:44, June 12, 2013 (UTC)><><